OCHO tweets

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : Dude stop hating, how was he the WORST receiver? he caught 15 balls for 200 plus yards and a touchdown as brady"s 4th or 5th option most of the time and didnt even need to be on the field for our offense to be successful, go look at the other past recievers numbers that we picked up and im sure there numbers werent much better if at all, I honestly dont see the need for bashing if he wasnt really needed but they decided to pay that money and keep him, im sure he would have taken less just to be with this team. He has sure taken a blow to his stats and no complaints.
    Posted by 81patsfan[/QUOTE]

    Re-read my post.  I wrote, "among the worst".  Not the worst.  I then wrote afterward that Holt and Galloway were worse for prime acquisitions.  But at least they were cut early and didn't cost the Pats much.  Ocho has been a disaster, compared to his salary and the expectation.  Face it.  Was he paid 5.75 mill or something this year?  If so, then he was paid $383,000 per catch!!!!!!  Or $20,800 per yard received!!!!  You happy with that?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : Not true.  Here's the timeline on Gaffney: 1. Signed in Octobebr of 2006. 2. Follows two awful options in Jackson and Gabriel, so anything better than these two would look good. 3. Was Inactive for one game after he started playing (I believe it was that Minny blowout game in the Metrodome where Chad Jackson actually had a TD). 4. Was really needing to be a flanker starter and wasn't able to be used that way as a new WR trying to learn a shotgun spread base, also on the fly. 5. Caught fire late helping the team in the postseason in SD and Indy. But, this was all when he was on the field as a #3 option behing Caldwell and Troy Brown.  Or, at worst a #4 behind Ben Watson. That year, Brady's two best options were sadly Watson (his best year) and Caldwell (best of his career with 67 catches). Compare Gaffeny as a newbie, on the fly learner here, to Ochoc gets slammed because people know his career and expect an immediate All Pro translation here, but he's clearly He doesn't what I expected and wanted: No distraction, team player, option and he did what Moss refused to do. In these areas, it's a succeess. Now, if he wasn't helping if Branch was down, then we'd could see. But, how can 3 OUTSTANDING talents, system players, 4 with Brach, be on the same plane as Ocho, the new guy? It makes no sense. Dude, there have been times this year where Branch was Inactive (Denver Week 15) where Ocho was great and then yanked ffrom the field because of how NE wanted to attack Denver, which was clearly Hernandez, Gronk and Welker based. Anyone expecting a direct transfer of what he did in Cincy to here, wasn't paying attention. Cincy has a traditional, one dimensional run based offense, with two flankers, 1 TE and a Fullback set up most of the time. That's not what this offense is here. This is a hybrid West Coast offense.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    We agree on much, but not on this.  Let's leave it at that.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BelichickDisciple. Show BelichickDisciple's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    I'm getting a real chuckle imagining the possibility of Ochocinco hauling in 3 TDs and being named SB MVP...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]I'm getting a real chuckle imagining the possibility of Ochocinco hauling in 3 TDs and being named SB MVP...
    Posted by BelichickDisciple[/QUOTE]


    BD.... Hope so
     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : Does this mean I made so many good points here you can't counter back? lol Is anything I said here above incorrect?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    No King, it means I am quite familiar that you are dig-into-a-trench debating style and you will never concede anything, one who cherry-picks his stats to make his point and then gets snipey when someone does not agree.  Or more to the point, who gets snipey when he disagrees with someone and then they will not change their opinion to make you happy..

    85 has been a category 6 bust, plain and simple.  To argue otherwise is obtuse.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : Ocho outproduced Gaffney's 2006 in far lesss reps.  Gaffney was a 3rd option, Ocho a 4th who barely played.  That to me speaks volumes, because it just means a shotgun base spread and Welker, Gronk, Hernandez and Branch with 35-40 passes per game, isn't enough for 5 options in this offense. Gronk and Welker are basically HOF caliber players.  Brady shouldn't even be throwing more than 40 times, so I disagree completely with your analysis. The only issue with Ochocino was a sluggish start and some drops early. And his price tag. The only flop is Bill O'Brien pulling him off the field and never letting him get into a base offense here in certain games. Also, clearly, Joey Galloway was way worse as an older FA signing than Ochocinco. Also, Ocho did a nice job blocking, not being a distraction and doing things Moss wouldn't do here. The wisest move of the year would be to suit him up (and Ridley) and tell them to be ready to make plays.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    Why I hate stats.  Do you remember the playoff game where we upset the Chargers that year?  That was actually the first time I got to see the Pats live.  Gaffney won that game for us.  Oh, a smart play by Troy Brown helped too.  Gaffney came in during the season.  He didn't even have a training camp with us.

    That said, it is fair to say that had he joined THIS team THIS year, he too wouldn't have seen the field much.  It's also fair to say that Ocho wouldn't be the highest paid receiver on the team (this year w/signing bonus) unless BB himself had higher expectations for Ocho than many of us fans do.  There have been a lot of excuses for Ocho.  He didn't have an offseason, you can't expect him to play over Branch.....  Isn't it fair to ask why someone who was expected to seldom play got paid so much?  I suspect someone expected him to contribute more, and that someone is BB.  Ocho made more than Welker this year.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    BTW, anyone here thinking 85 was paid 5.75 mill to be a "number three or number four receiver" is kidding himself.  He was brought here, at 5.75 million for this year, to be the deep threat next to Welker, like Moss was, so as to stretch the field.  It didn't work and I am sure BB wishes he could have paid a F/A quality DB or LB (or two) that money instead.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]BTW, anyone here thinking 85 was paid 5.75 mill to be a "number three or number four receiver" is kidding himself.  He was brought here, at 5.75 million for this year, to be the deep threat next to Welker, like Moss was, so as to stretch the field.  It didn't work and I am sure BB wishes he could have paid a F/A quality DB or LB (or two) that money instead.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    Well, I'm not BB but I think it's reasonable to say Ocho has not met expectations this year.  Nobody gets signed without BB's approval.  No way they paid that amount "expecting" he would play so little.  Nobody can say Ocho isn't a disappointment.  People can argue as to the extent of the disappointment, but nobody can say it isn't a disappointment and keep a straight face.
     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : I am snipey because I made good points which basically exposed this premise that Ocho is some massive bust behind two HOF players in Welker and Gronk, Hernandez who is better than last year and a healthier Branch? So, do you bench Hernandez to get Ocho reps during games?  I said when BB acquired Ocho all Ocho had to be was Gaffney and he was in far, far less reps! I am not arguing, I am wondering why this theory of Ocho not progressing this year is being accepted when Bill O'Brien is the guy who has the brain malfunction of constantly subbing players in and out with potentially disastrous effects. In each the Oakland and Jets I game, where NE ran all over those Ds, Ocho had impact plays both  on 3rd down conversions and helped with blocking. By the Jets game Part II, he was wide open when on the field and there was still shot proof of him being wide open in games where Brady tossed boneheaded INTs just like the one to Slater this past Sunday. I am not debating the ROI with Ocho which is why I suggested the new CBA and the union may have a limit on who much a player can take a cut for. I don't know this, I am just suggesting it.  It's very possible, they couldn't get him to take less than what he did. I repeat: He took a 50+% paycut to play here while Randy Moss whined at a podium, running 4 total routes in this offense, wondering where his contract was. Ocho />Moss. Case closed.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    I would suggest that "if" BB knew Ocho would play and contribute as little as he has, there is NO WAY they would have paid him so much.  It wouldn't matter what the CBA rules are.  They would have passed on him if they knew all of this.

    You do allude to a good point though.  Did BB expect our two TE's to be as good as they are?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : Holt and Galloway are probably the worst of the prime guys.  But without the benefit of reviewing Gaffney's stats, I recall him as far superior to 85.   Take away a couple of bombs to 85 and his impact drops to a handful of third-down conversions and some nice blocks.  I remember Galloway making some surprisingly clutch catches, the kind of thing that does not show in the stats (a' la Faulk).   I think most fans would agree that the Gaffney of then would be counted upon to help win this SB, while 85 will not.  Also, 85 had Welker, Gronk, Hernandez and Branch to draw coverage.  Three of those guys arguably are the best players at their position, and the fourth is a former SB MVP and known clutch player for Brady.  When Gaffney was here, the receiving corps was not as deep and multi-talented. 85 blew his opportunity here, and he was paid handsomely doing it.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    I don't find anything wrong with the Ocho signing. I think it speaks volumes about our talent that a player like Chad can only get to 5th on the depth chart. I think if he had 2 years in our system and developed a relationship with Brady to earn more playing time he would be putting up great #4 receiving numbers.

    I wouldn't want anybody to take targets away from WW,Gronk and AH right now so I think CHad is a great insurance policy.
     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : Why I hate stats.  Do you remember the playoff game where we upset the Chargers that year?  That was actually the first time I got to see the Pats live.  Gaffney won that game for us.  Oh, a smart play by Troy Brown helped too.  Gaffney came in during the season.  He didn't even have a training camp with us. That said, it is fair to say that had he joined THIS team THIS year, he too wouldn't have seen the field much.  It's also fair to say that Ocho wouldn't be the highest paid receiver on the team (this year w/signing bonus) unless BB himself had higher expectations for Ocho than many of us fans do.  There have been a lot of excuses for Ocho.  He didn't have an offseason, you can't expect him to play over Branch.....  Isn't it fair to ask why someone who was expected to seldom play got paid so much?  I suspect someone expected him to contribute more, and that someone is BB.  Ocho made more than Welker this year.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]

    So you think BB "expected" Ocho to beat out Branch for the 2nd receiver spot? I disagree. I think he signed him because he remembered 2009. When WW went down we had zero depth and it was a contributing factor to a a stale offense going into the plyoffs. Even after Moss and WW we had nobody.

    I love the Ocho signing for a depth move even if it cost a few million. D-Branch is old and WW takes a lot of abuse. If wither of these players went down I feel confident Ocho could have stepped in and he an Brady would have been forced to find that ever precious "chemistry"

    If we had injuries to a wr this year I think many of you would be singing a different tune in terms of the Ocho signing. Luckily we didn't and he remains where he should be...at the bottom of the depth chart.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : exactly! BB is the anti-Jets. He takes on eevry contingency, budgest so well and turns over every rock to help the marathon that is a 53 man roster over an NFL season and people are going to whine about this? My good god almighty. Stick to the facts, folks. Ocho was Gaffney here when used and outproduced Gaffney in less reps. Good thing we have Shaun Ellis with Carter down, too, folks. He overpaid for both, but good thing we have each. You never know when a player like that makes a big play to help you win. Each has a carrot in front of them right now.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    Great point! Depth and team building are the priority here not us fans perception of effectiveness.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    King, he took a pay-cut because he was overpaid and nobody was going to pay him in full.  He was due a pay-cut no matter where he played.  

    Now, if you are saying that 85 thinks that he got paid less at the Pats than he would have most anywhere else, and that the Pats thought they had leveraged him for a great deal via his obvious hunger to play for the Pats, then we agree.

    So why was Chad open?  He was freelancing.  It is widely reported that this is how he operated in Cincy.  Brady wants the receivers to run their routes, play the planned play, be where they are supposed to be.  Chad didn't play that way in Cincy, nor at NE this season, so even when he got open doing it his way, Brady rolled up a newspaper and rapped Chad on the nose to say, "Hey, you pulled that ship on Palmer and ruined his career in Cincy.  You aren't going to do that here and you are not going to poison the rest of the receivers with that ship."  

    It wasn't OB that was keeping 85 out of plays.  It was Brady.  Brady does not like playing with 85 and does not like 85 personally.

    His one credit, 85 has been publicly in line.  But on the field, in practice, he was been a free-agent within an offense that is highly defined and orchestrated.  He plays video games, watches movies and tweets when he is supposed to be studying his play-book.  He is supposed to be one of the greats. (Hannah used to practice his blocks in his hotel room the night before a game, instead of going out on the town with his teammates.) Thus, 85 didn't do what was asked of him, he didn't do what he was paid to do, at $5.75 mill in 2011.  That makes him one of the busts of all time busts, for any player the Pats have ever brought in from another team.  

    Hey, did they have to give up a draft pick for this guy, too?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    On October 9, 2006, Gaffney signed a two-year deal with the Patriots. 2007 was his first solid season. On March 5, 2008, Gaffney re-signed with the Patriots for one year worth $2 million.

    In his first-ever playoff game, on January 7, 2007 against the New York Jets, Gaffney had a near-career day, catching eight passes for 104 yards, his second 100-yard performance as a receiver (in ten regular season games, Gaffney caught 11 passes for 142 yards and one touchdown.) Gaffney followed that performance a week later against San Diego with another 100-yard game, in which he caught ten passes and scored a touchdown.

    Jabar Gaffney finished the 2008 season with 44 receptions for 468 yards and two touchdowns. His longest reception was 37 yards. His best game came against the Cardinals in week 16, when he had 90 yards receiving.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    P.S. - the only things the Hayensworth signing and the Ocho signing shared in common was that they happened the same year and they were both huge disappointments.  

    Big Al got paid peanuts by the Pats and was arguably worth a roll.  It was a no-lose signing.  You could even say that sgning him and then cutting him when he under-performed had a positive affect on the team, enforcing a meritocracy, regardless of pedigree. 

    But Ocho got paid a lot, not top dollar, but a lot, the kind of money a no. 2 WR gets paid.  BUSTAROO!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]I'd like to see Ocho suited up for this game. He does add another dimension to this offense on certain plays. The way I look at it it's all hands on deck. Ridley better be suited up as well. Ocho still brings more to the table than Slater.
    Posted by jam757[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. I think he will play a role in this game. And it has to be all hands on deck. GO PATS
     

Share