OCHO tweets

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    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]On October 9, 2006, Gaffney signed a two-year deal with the Patriots. 2007 was his first solid season. On March 5, 2008, Gaffney re-signed with the Patriots for one year worth $2 million. In his first-ever playoff game , on January 7, 2007 against the New York Jets , Gaffney had a near-career day, catching eight passes for 104 yards, his second 100-yard performance as a receiver (in ten regular season games, Gaffney caught 11 passes for 142 yards and one touchdown.) Gaffney followed that performance a week later against San Diego with another 100-yard game, in which he caught ten passes and scored a touchdown. Jabar Gaffney finished the 2008 season with 44 receptions for 468 yards and two touchdowns. His longest reception was 37 yards. His best game came against the Cardinals in week 16, when he had 90 yards receiving.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    Thanks.  

    Add to the stats the intangible that he made an awful lot of clutch plays, plays that win games.  I wish the Pats had kept him, but as I recall, he was due a big bonus or pay increase that made it prohibitive, just as had happened with Stallworth.
     
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    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]On October 9, 2006, Gaffney signed a two-year deal with the Patriots. 2007 was his first solid season. On March 5, 2008, Gaffney re-signed with the Patriots for one year worth $2 million. In his first-ever playoff game , on January 7, 2007 against the New York Jets , Gaffney had a near-career day, catching eight passes for 104 yards, his second 100-yard performance as a receiver (in ten regular season games, Gaffney caught 11 passes for 142 yards and one touchdown.) Gaffney followed that performance a week later against San Diego with another 100-yard game, in which he caught ten passes and scored a touchdown. Jabar Gaffney finished the 2008 season with 44 receptions for 468 yards and two touchdowns. His longest reception was 37 yards. His best game came against the Cardinals in week 16, when he had 90 yards receiving.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    Let's not forget his clutch catch against the Ravens in 2007 that saved our undefeated regular season. 
     
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    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : So you think BB "expected" Ocho to beat out Branch for the 2nd receiver spot? I disagree. I think he signed him because he remembered 2009. When WW went down we had zero depth and it was a contributing factor to a a stale offense going into the plyoffs. Even after Moss and WW we had nobody. I love the Ocho signing for a depth move even if it cost a few million. D-Branch is old and WW takes a lot of abuse. If wither of these players went down I feel confident Ocho could have stepped in and he an Brady would have been forced to find that ever precious "chemistry" If we had injuries to a wr this year I think many of you would be singing a different tune in terms of the Ocho signing. Luckily we didn't and he remains where he should be...at the bottom of the depth chart.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    What in BB's history makes you think he would pay nearly $6M for insurance?  Has he ever brought someone in for insurance for that much?  Ever?  He expected something beyond an insurance policy.  Is anyone in the football world outside of a few people on this forum saying he isn't a disappointment?

    That said, it can't be ruled out that BB didn't anticipate our TE's being THIS good.  Perhaps if our TE's were normal we would see a lot more of Ocho.  The words that come to mind are "change of plans."

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    It was widely reported that 85 was having problems in practice with the plays.  But it was also reported that he was trying hard in practice.  He also was droppng a lot of passes in practice. 

    Palmer called him out for freelancing.  Game announcers and former Pats players, like Troy Brown, have indicated that Brady has a problem with Chad not running the right play and not running the right route.

    OK, so I have heard numerous rumors - just like you have heard yours - that Brady does not like Chad.  At least in my case, I can point to the fact that Brtady will look right at a wide-open Chad, cleared for a TD, and choose to throw short and incomplete to Welker or Woodhead.  Over and over and over. 

    You claimed that OB is the reason Chad has suffered here?  Based on what source?  And if so, why was he letting Chad be on the field at all? Npe, it's Brady who is not throwing to a wide-open Chad, not OB not throwing to a wide-open Chad.

    Your argument is a sinking ship.  You usually make much better points and outsmart many here.  In this case. give it up.  You are just arguing dogmatically, instead of logically.  I seriously doubt many people would side with you that A) Chad was brought here at 5.75m to be a 4th or 5th receiver, and B) that he is not one of the biggest busts the Pats have ever signed from another team.  That's just obtuse crazy talk. 
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]It was widely reported that 85 was having problems in practice with the plays.  But it was also reported that he was trying hard in practice.  He also was droppng a lot of passes in practice.  Palmer called him out for freelancing.  Game announcers and former Pats players, like Troy Brown, have indicated that Brady has a problem with Chad not running the right play and not running the right route. OK, so I have heard numerous rumors - just like you have heard yours - that Brady does not like Chad.  At least in my case, I can point to the fact that Brtady will look right at a wide-open Chad, cleared for a TD, and choose to throw short and incomplete to Welker or Woodhead.  Over and over and over.  You claimed that OB is the reason Chad has suffered here?  Based on what source?  And if so, why was he letting Chad be on the field at all? Npe, it's Brady who is not throwing to a wide-open Chad, not OB not throwing to a wide-open Chad. Your argument is a sinking ship.  You usually make much better points and outsmart many here.  In this case. give it up.  You are just arguing dogmatically, instead of logically.  I seriously doubt many people would side with you that A) Chad was brought here at 5.75m to be a 4th or 5th receiver, and B) that he is not one of the biggest busts the Pats have ever signed from another team.  That's just obtuse crazy talk. 
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    I'm not trying to stir the pot here and honestly I have not read much of the back and forth between you and Rusty. I know how Rusty gets so please don't group me in to your debate but...

    Do you see the irony in the bold comments above? If Chad gets wide open for a td and Brady ignores him to throw underneath to WW who is to blame? If the guy is open for a td then why the heck didn't Tommy throw him the ball???

    I mean I have read the same reports about the dropped balls in practice but I also read that he kept his mouth shut and worked as hard as anybody. I think it is the offensive coordinators job to make it work when you have 2 talented people dedicated to winning(Brady and Chad).

    In this case I think we gave up on him before he had much of an opportunity to play. I also understand why, being that Branch and Brady have amazing "chemistry". If he can't produce better then your top 4 targets then why try?

    How could Chad succeed when he gets 3-5 snaps a game?

    When we threw the 40 yard td to Chad in Denver why did he not play another snap after that 1st qtr play? Did he free lance and run the wrong route that resulted in a td?

    I just don't see the need to classify him as a failure because we have 4 players that are better then him in our current system, which resulted in the 2nd most passing yards in NFL history.

    If Branch went down for half of the year and Chad played actual starter minutes and our passing offense suffered I would be the 1st to call him a failure but as it is I don't see the point.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : What in BB's history makes you think he would pay nearly $6M for insurance?  Has he ever brought someone in for insurance for that much?  Ever?  He expected something beyond an insurance policy.  Is anyone in the football world outside of a few people on this forum saying he isn't a disappointment? That said, it can't be ruled out that BB didn't anticipate our TE's being THIS good.  Perhaps if our TE's were normal we would see a lot more of Ocho.  The words that come to mind are "change of plans."
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]

    So you do think BB expected Chad to play over Branch?
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : So you do think BB expected Chad to play over Branch?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    With BB, you gotta think outside the box.  It's not always a matter of playing over someone else.  It's not a matter of "who the starter is".  BB seems to think in terms of "role" and not "starter".  You see that in how he rotates guys perhaps more often than other teams.  Could Ocho have a role where he rotates into the lineup more often than he has?  Of course.  Does he need to be a "starter"?  No.

    We have a deep receiving talent for sure this year.  Our TE's are practically WR's.  That said, has Ocho even played over Edelman, Slater, or Underwood (in games when most were active)?

    I'm still cheering for Ocho though.  I'd love to see him have an MVP game in the SB.  What a surprise it would be for the G-Men if he came out of nowhere....but that is where he would be coming from, nowhere.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : So you do think BB expected Chad to play over Branch?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I do feel BB expected Ocho to force his way onto the field due to performance over Branch.
    I am also of the belief the other person who had almost as much difficulty in picking up offense was Henandez, but he finally did grasp it and now cannot come off of the field. I think this also surprised BB that it happened like flipping on a light switch. One minute, Hernandez knew about 30% of the playbook, and the next he grasped it.
     
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    Re: OCHO tweets

    Ocho needs to come to play, especially if Gronk isn't 100%. In man, Ocho would beat the Giants CBs 10/10. 
     
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    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : No King, it means I am quite familiar that you are dig-into-a-trench debating style and you will never concede anything, one who cherry-picks his stats to make his point and then gets snipey when someone does not agree.  Or more to the point, who gets snipey when he disagrees with someone and then they will not change their opinion to make you happy.. 85 has been a category 6 bust, plain and simple.  To argue otherwise is obtuse.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    Very true. Its comical actually...at times.
     
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    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : I think this is false. Here's why: After Branch arrived here last year, he said he had "a lot to learn" since he had been in Seattle, and that was with a least some exposure to the McDaniels base in 2005. The McDaniels offense took off more by 2007 with max personnel, was scaled back in 2008 and then O'Brien tried to run it with weaker personnel in 2009. Last year, it was more of a 2008 and 2007 mix. If Branch and Brady have an uncanny chemistry and he's saying that coming back here last year, it's highly unlikely a guy who has never been anywhere near a shotgun/base spread West Coast hybrid offense with complexities unlike Cincy, woul dbe expected to get a playbook at the end of August and then explode past Branch, Welker, Hernandez and Gronk. Hernandez also didn't appeare to struggle whatsover. He got HURT last year and that slowed him, as it did this year for a bit when he sprained his knee.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    I believe that BB felt Ocho would surpass Branch via preformance and due to physical breakdowns by Branch and him not being able to be on the field full time

    I have been told pretty reliably that Hernandez was only able to run about 30-40% of the plays the first 5-6 games. This was due to not knowing the offense compltely, not anything physical
     
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    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]I don't. The people above my post apparently did.  Hence, why I said I am confused. Agree, suit up Ocho and Ridley, put brady under center, play action, run BJGE 20+ times. SB win.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]


    You are hallucinating.  Most people above you were commenting on how ineffective he was as a football player.  You can't make this stuff up.  Well, apparently, YOU can.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : Nice contribution. He's wrong. This is the equivalent of bashing James Jones in GB for not being better than Finley, Jennings, Nelson and Driver in GB. Or the new guy Arrington in NOs.  Who would expect those players to surpass the better players already there? The only real argument based on what we've seen is Ocho hasn't been given a chance and BB overpaid. That's it. The ROI is poor. That's it. Meanwhile, Brady throws picks or underthrows Ochocinco earlier in this year and it's all his fault. Same deal with Underwood in Washington where Brady has too much air under the ball to Underwood, AFTER AUDIBILING to the point O'Brien blows up on Brady, which was ABOUT TIME SOMEONE DID. Brady underthrew Underwood in Philly he also was late with Slater on Sunday, deep. Doesn';t matter who it is deep in that role or whatever, BRady is never wrong, it always the guy who doesn't have #12 on his jersey. Take the Brady pink underoos off your head for 30 seconds. That's what's comical.  "At times". Brady Ballwashers who can't be honest. What True Champ says above about Brady ignoring wide open WRs is the point!  It's why we lost SB 42, why we lost last January,  why we lost 2/3 games this year and why we almost lost on Sunday. Brady was a better QB in 2006 when he had far weaker talent. Brady has been SPOILED by the talent at the WR and TE position, especially here in 2011, Ochcocinco riding the pine or not. Gronk and Welker/hernandez may not eventually shake man coverage and Brady forcing a ball has led to numerous picks.  Numerous. He threw 3 dropped INTs in the first half in NY, a game were Ocho played in and was good in, only to be ignored completely after making plays. This goes a lot deeper than some moronic premise that only Ocho is some bust. If Ocho didn't have the name on the jersey and wasn't a vibrant personality, we wouldn't see 10 Ocho threads every week here from Week 1-Week 17 through now. Of course Branch, Welker, Hernandez and Gronk are better players here. They've been here! Just because not every player at every position is some legendary superstar, doesn't mean they're some kind of a bust. People are MORONS beyond belief if you expected All Pro production from him out of a lockout as Brady is coddled with HOF talent around him here.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    Rusty,

    Why the attacks?

    I didnt expect All Pro production.

    What I did expect was better knowledge of the playbook. I also expected Branch to miss 3-5 games, and Ocho to reliably fill in. While Branch did not miss that amount of time, his performance dictated that he play less than he did, but the Pats had no one better. While this is an indictment on Ocho, and Tate and Price and Brady and the coaching staff, the point is that no one was able to step up and push a slowing player down the depth chart.

    Ochos past performance, his physical appearence (he was in phenominal shape preseason) and the trust BB seemingly had in him (via his contract) led most to believe Ocho would produce more.

    Rusty, you know very well, because you and I argued it at length in the preseason, that I said Ocho was in big danger of getting cut due to his inability to pick up the playbook. You, and most everyone preached patience, that Ocho would come around. I said he never would and you of course ridiculed me and called me a moron. And of course you double jumped on me saying that I was always wrong, and you were never wrong.

    For whatever the reason, Ocho simply never fit. It was clear in preseason. NJow go ahead and call me a moron or troll, and tell everyone that I am buddies with Bruschi and that I pull plugs for ESPN. But when you are done with that, just say you were wrong...again 
     
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    Re: OCHO tweets

    King...
    Bro, Im not trying to fan the flame. I'm just calling it as I see it. I've been reading the board/your posts for years and many of your posts are among the most intriguing/thought provoking on the forum. At other times its as if your a coiled-up pit viper waiting to spring into action at the first dissimilar opinion you encounter. Stay even my friend. You've got value to this board. Some real good views.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]King... Bro, Im not trying to fan the flame. I'm just calling it as I see it. I've been reading the board/your posts for years and many of your posts are among the most intriguing/thought provoking on the forum. At other times its as if your a coiled-up pit viper waiting to spring into action at the first dissimilar opinion you encounter. Stay even my friend. You've got value to this board. Some real good views.
    Posted by Gravelten4[/QUOTE]

    Rusty I don't know who Gravelten4 is but he is 100% correct. You are a passionate fan and knowledgeable as well. Quit the f-ing kid act of calling people morons and such and your posts will be 10x as effective. Give it a break big dog!!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : With BB, you gotta think outside the box.  It's not always a matter of playing over someone else.  It's not a matter of "who the starter is".  BB seems to think in terms of "role" and not "starter".  You see that in how he rotates guys perhaps more often than other teams.  Could Ocho have a role where he rotates into the lineup more often than he has?  Of course.  Does he need to be a "starter"?  No. We have a deep receiving talent for sure this year.  Our TE's are practically WR's.  That said, has Ocho even played over Edelman, Slater, or Underwood (in games when most were active)? I'm still cheering for Ocho though.  I'd love to see him have an MVP game in the SB.  What a surprise it would be for the G-Men if he came out of nowhere....but that is where he would be coming from, nowhere.
    Posted by carawaydj[/QUOTE]

    To your 1st point.....Exactly right.

    To your 2nd point YES he has played better then all 3 when given the opportunity. Which by the way is my point. Ocho has played well with his 4-5 snaps per game for the season.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: OCHO tweets

    Now there's an idea... TEs in the backfield ? How about actually putting OCHO on the field and throw him the ball when he's open...! Now that's a shocking offensive innovation that NOONE would expect...!
     
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    Re: OCHO tweets

    In Response to Re: OCHO tweets:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OCHO tweets : Re-read my post.  I wrote, "among the worst".  Not the worst.  I then wrote afterward that Holt and Galloway were worse for prime acquisitions.  But at least they were cut early and didn't cost the Pats much.  Ocho has been a disaster, compared to his salary and the expectation.  Face it.  Was he paid 5.75 mill or something this year?  If so, then he was paid $383,000 per catch!!!!!!  Or $20,800 per yard received!!!!  You happy with that?
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    Im happy that were winning and goin to the superbowl, with or without Ocho playing, i could care less what they wanna pay Ocho because im not the one paying him. I still dont think he was one of the worst, i just think we didnt need him as much, But I understand your frustrations kind sir, sorry for the mis-read
     
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