Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ltown1. Show Ltown1's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    The whole debate about the female reporter bringing it on herself is silly. 

    I work in an office.  If an attractive woman comes in my office dressed very provacatively and starts asking me questions, you'd be sure that I would go out of my way to conduct myself as a professional or face the consequences.

    The stadium is the office for these players.   There is no excuse for their actions.

    I will say again though, I don't think any reporter should be allowed in any locker room.   It's ridiculous.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    I guess it comes down to does a man's right to change his clothes and shower and privacy supersede a woman's right to have access to the players for stories in the locker room.  I think it does, but in the issue of fairness to women journalist's the obvious solution is to not allow anyone in the locker rooms.

    The Ines Sainz issue is a different debate though.  I guess if we punish the Jets than we are scoring "one" for Womens rights.  That's not how I see it.  I'm not sure how the collective wisdom in America has come to believe that we are treating women as adults and equals by telling them that they are not responsible for their actions or smart enough to understand how they feel about the consequences.

    Sainz dresses a certain way to get attention from her male audience and that's just fine.  She is not so stupid that she doesn't know what she's doing.  And of course there is still a line that can't be crossed because her sexual dress does not mean she must endure any and all unwanted attention from men.  Where is that liine?  Wherever she draws it.  Now if she didn't like what was going on in that locker room than she could and should have done 2 things.  First, say right then and there that their actions were not appropriate, and second tell some authority that they were innapropriate.  She did neither, in fact the whole story only came to light when another reporter complained to the NFL who then contacted Sainz.  Sainz response when asked what happenned was "What happenned?"  She didn't think it was innapropriate and she hasn't changed that story last I heard. 

    But now we're saying "Sorry Ines, but you're just not smart enough to know whether or not you were harassed so go sit in the corner and look pretty while we step in to protect you."  We're trying to decide what is, or is not appropriate conversation and flirting without considering that that is entirely up to the people involved.  You may find what I say to my wife innapropriate, or what a guy says to a girl in a bar innapropriate but if My wife, or that girl at a bar don't find it innapropriate it isn't.  We are going to need some big jails if we start going after everyone who not only makes unwanted advances but those who make wanted advances. 

    We are not doing any favors to women to tell them that they are incapable of assessing whether or not they have been harassed.  I would expect that the 2 girls I raised to act as adults have the intelligence to decide whather they have been harassed and don't need the collective sanctimony of the public to dismiss them and tell them that they don't know enough to make that decision for themselves.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    Again, it's just grandstanding by the league to improve it's image. While I agree that these guys should act "professional", the world is not perfect, and there is bound to be some commentary. And an NFL locker room is not an office where business is conducted. It's where the guys go to shower and change. If the girl was not offended, I doubt anything really demeaning was said within her earshot. Just the fact that she dresses as she does shows she expects attention. She says so herself. I seriously doubt anyone whipped it out and started making onscene gestures to her. And I'd bet every guy here has at some time commented to a coworker about an attractive female who visited their workplace. It's only harassment if they confront the woman and make the comments or advances to her face. In a room with 50 young males it's impossible to expect there be no comments amongst themselves. The main point is that she was not offended herself. The moralists may wish for a "sex free" world, but it's just never going to happen! This is another case of the media blowing something out of porportion, and now the league is jumping on it to uphold their "holier than thou" facade. I'm not claiming she was "asking to be harrassed" by the way she was dressed. But I'm sure she realizes her presence would create a reaction like this (from the players). IMO there was no "harassment", how could there be if she took no offense? In the end, the only sure way to avoid such situations is to keep the locker room private. There are plenty of other places to interview the players. And I'm sure a lot of them would gladly talk to her in another setting. Would everyone here be half as upset if it were a team other than the Jests? (Or maybe the Colts, I know a lot of folks would love to jump on them, too!)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    NFL players have no "right" to shower in privacy, at least not after a certain point. They have time to shower and get decent, and then there is a media period during the locker room time. During that time they are being paid, by their team, to represent their team. It is, in short, their job. When I am at my  job I do not have the right to do whatever I want. I act the way my employer wants me to act, and if I do not I (shock) face consequences more dire than any of these players will ever face. If I ever said anything to another person at my job that was a sexual advance, I would practically be fired on the spot. 

    If players want to close down the media portion, then they need to bring it up in the CBA. Yet, something tells me none of them felt "harassed" at all, and none of them (spare me) were worried too much about  their "privacy." So I don't understand why it is about a "man's right to privacy" versus a woman's right to get an interview. It is about players feeling they can say what they want, when they want, and all reporters (men and women) right to do their job without being humiliated or threatened in any way. 

    Women and men, so long as they have a press pass, have a right to attend the media portion of locker room time. Equal rights has nothing to do with this on this level, as (since 1976) there has been equal access. Where equal rights becomes an issue here is that every reporter should be able to their job at an NFL media event without being harassed.

    These people are not in a club, not on a street ... they are a work. All of them are being paid and acting in a professional capacity (supposedly). No one is going after anyone, or threatening jail time (talk about slippery slope) for people making comments in public.

    And no one is putting words in Mrs. Sainz's mouth, she was tweeting pretty clearly about how uncomfortable and humiliated she was there saying she had to "cover her ears." That she is being diplomatic about her experience after receiving a call from the commissioner says more about her intelligence ... correctly identifying the fact that if she does make noise she will likely draw the ire of the people she is relying on for interviews. Or maybe she was told about when Lisa Olson complained about harassment and was given death threats, had her tires slashed, and was called a "b8tch" by Victor Kiam.  

    It isn't about telling her she should feel harassed or should not feel harassed. It is about telling the players to act like what they are supposed to be: professionals. The actions of the NFL (having WJ underwrite a program) is laughable ... these men should be adults and should be "responsible for their actions." Ines Sainz (or any other reporter) should simply be allowed to their job.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dafoe. Show dafoe's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?":
    [QUOTE]wow guys I am honestly surprised at the amount of people on this forum who are pointing the finger at her and saying its her fault. It shouldnt matter what she was wearing the same way it shouldnt matter what a girl was wearing if she gets *raped. And the fact that these guys are in their 20's is a bull sh*t point. They are grown men no matter how old, they are old enough to go to war, have a beer, and get married so they should be old enough to restrain themselves when a pretty women walks into the room. No excuse is ok, they acted out of line and showed exactly how little class they have and that should be the end of story. I am honestly shocked at how many of you guys are trying to make it her fault.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    Are you seriously comparing a few catcalls to rape? She doesn't deserve to get raped. No one does. But I'm sorry, when you walk into a room full of young testosterone driven  young men dressed like a stripper, they are going to act a certain way. If she doesn't understand that, she is a moron. She most definitely had it coming.

    For people to be acting like she was the victim is a joke. If she wanted to be taken seriously, she wouldn't have been dressed like a prostitute. I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways. You act like she walked in there in business suit. Once your attire gets to a certain level of skank, you are inviting that type of behavior. If she didn't show any restraint, why should these young men be expected to? 

    I may be biased, but I think my girlfriend is just as hot. The reporter is a bit of a butterface. But if my gf showed up to work dressed like this woman dresses? Well, first of all she would be sent home or fired. And if she wasn't, nobody would take her seriously, or have any respect for her.

    That's just they way the world works. Sorry. If you dress like a w hore, people are going to treat you that way. I don't get what's so difficult to understand.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

     I'm a little mconfused on what's considered 'dressing provocatively'. If that's considered provocative than everytime I walk in the grocery store it must be stripper shopping day. A lot of the women on TV in latin countries dress like that. It's only good old American sexual uptightness that makes it into something else. But then again we live in a country that thinks breast feeding is a turn on.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    And no one is putting words in Mrs. Sainz's mouth, she was tweeting pretty clearly about how uncomfortable and humiliated she was there saying she had to "cover her ears."

    Well, nothing about this was reported on any of the stories I've read or seen. If she was truly offended as you claim, she should have spoken up when the league asked her about the incident. I'm not defending these guys for acting like pigs, but none of the reports stated what you are saying above. I still think it's unneccesary for reporters to be in the locker room. They are getting paid to play football. Any interaction between them and the media should be at their discression, not shoved down their throats. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would have no problem with waiting to hear the players' comments after they exited the locker room. And to compare it with a normal job is absurd. I'd be willing to bet you do not have people following you to the men's room to ask you questions while you are at work. Some of these reporters are as bad as the paparazzi. In any case I stand by my point. If they simply waited until the players came to the interview area things would be a lot more "professional". And if the team or the league mandated that they speak with the media they could insist that they go to the designated area before leaving the facility. If they were outright disrespectful, I agree they should be punished. But, as usual, we do not know the specifics of what happened there.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    In the media women freely use their sexuality and body as part of their job (whether for ratings or to get interviews) it's wrong for them to call foul when they are made uncomfortable, when they dressed this way. Was she made uncomfortable, yes, You have to look at it from the players perspective. They have people hounding them for info when they are trying to shower/change. then they have to immediately go to a press conference after the game to be hounds further for information.  Does having reporters and particularly women reporters in the locker room make the players uncomfortable? NO reporters should be allowed in the locker room. I believe that all the questions could be saved for the post game press conference.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dafoe. Show dafoe's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?":
    [QUOTE] I'm a little mconfused on what's considered 'dressing provocatively'. If that's considered provocative than everytime I walk in the grocery store it must be stripper shopping day. A lot of the women on TV in latin countries dress like that. It's only good old American sexual uptightness that makes it into something else. But then again we live in a country that thinks breast feeding is a turn on.
    Posted by Evil2010[/QUOTE]

    When in Rome.... But seriously, maybe America is sexually uptight. I'm not sure I buy that. But she's in America. If the rules are different here, then she should dress accordingly.

    Secondly, I have to admit, I have no idea what she was wearing when she was "harrassed" But I did google her and, while some of her outfits were fine, there were others that were completely inappropriate for a men's locker room and for a professional. And even beyond dress, some women just invite that sort of behavior with their demeanor. Some women are just naturally flitratious. And it's supposed to be up to the guy to figure out wther or not they mean anything by it, or if they are just massaging their own ego. So I'm sorry, I just have a hard time buying the victim act. 

    I have no problem with attractive women dressing like that. What guy doesn't want to look at that? But by the same token, you can't expect people to take you seriously. Men will think of you only as a sexual object if you dress like that.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    There needs to be an interview room where any reporter male or female can conduct interviews and ask questions. Player would be required to pass through this room and make themselves available to the press. Reporters should not be allow in the locker room. I don't think it's appropriate for the opposite sex to be in the locker room. It just creates problems. Remeber Patriot Missiles?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    No reporters need be in the locker room in any sport. Players are entitled to their space and privacy. As to this woman, why dress like a trollop if you are not in the business. She was dressed to drawn attention to herself and she got it. The NFL needs to hire Hootie Johnson as Commissioner so we can get back to football.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    being a contrarian, was actually thinkg of startg this thread last wednesday but chose to let someone else get the controverial pie. first of, this is going to hurt the jets. spent all this time being clueless and impervious to consequences. now your coAch and leaders have to tone things down big time. dont believe that goes along with their instincts. ryan was personally involved in the high jinks. also, as with most of these sensitive issues, funny how no one has quoted the so-called "victim". she has said repeatedly she does not have an issue with the responses.

    your typical anglo-saxon raised-westerner female has a whole bunch of contradictions and naivete about her sexuality. most ethnics simply do not. she gets that 1+1 =2. you wear slutty club-like outfits in an environment where no one else is to get exactly the reaction she got. no one groped her. one guy said he wished he was mexican when she saw sanchez getting all the attention, another said "good gawd, here she comes". big deal, grow up.

    still, perhaps to get a more professsional ambiance and response, jets may want to mandate that all reporters esp the hottie fulfill a certain dress standard before they walk in or come on the field. then again, if everyone is cool with the boundaries as is, so what? that network could be breaking news everyday if the y could get their reporters to obama, congress and figures like randy moss. moss would give her an exclusive whenever she wanted. we perhaps need more of her kind.

    lastly, when you come to this country, its your job to grasp the culture not the other way around. who cares how its done in her world? its her job to grasp the perceptions of this one and dress accordingly unless she doesnt really want that kind of boring, follow the sheep reality. so there! 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?":
    [QUOTE]There needs to be an interview room where any reporter male or female can conduct interviews and ask questions. Player would be required to pass through this room and make themselves available to the press. Reporters should not be allow in the locker room. I don't think it's appropriate for the opposite sex to be in the locker room. It just creates problems. Remeber Patriot Missiles?
    Posted by RonF[/QUOTE]

    Gee, wonder if male reporters are allowed to casually wonder thru the locker room when maria sharapova and the other tennis hotties are in their towels or coming from out of the showers? of course not. great point!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    How does anyone draw limits on TV reporter behavior in the locker room?

    Sainz was picked for her job in part because she has natural beauty.  No one can officially criticize TV Azteca for picking a good looker, but it's fuel for the fire.  She's not exactly the Fabulous Sports Babe, who talks a good game on the radio but will never make the Playboy centerfold.

    Sainz dresses hot.  It's part of her job.  Mexican men tune in to such fashion choices.  The hotter the fashion, the more fuel is added to the fire.

    Sainz dressed herself in a bridal gown and asked Tom Brady to marry her (as a news stunt, I assume).  It seems to be a kind of flirty tactic.  Again, it's technically within the rules of journalism.

    What isn't within the rules of journalism?  Can she flirt in the locker room to get a story?  How much can she flirt?  For how long?  If a football player is wearing nothing but a towel in the locker room and gets all embarrassed by her and can no longer stand up and walk away, can they show that on TV?  (I heard of two college women who once trapped a guy in a chair that way.  He just wanted to get from the bathroom to his room, but they casually blocked the guy's door, he sat down to avoid embarassment and then they flirted the victim up until he got really red in the face.) 

    If Sainz can push the limits, can't other women get press credentials and push the limits farther?  What if we someday get a female reporter who just specializes in getting locker room embarrassment stories?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    Back in the good old day's the only women in the locker room were Hookers.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?":
    [QUOTE] Sainz dressed herself in a bridal gown and asked Tom Brady to marry her (as a news stunt, I assume). 
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]

    Again . . .

    That was an entirely different Ines (Gomes Mont).

    I realize it makes for a nice buttress to the argument.

    It just doesn't happen to be true.









     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?" : Again . . . That was an entirely different Ines (Gomes Mont). I realize it makes for a nice buttress to the argument. It just doesn't happen to be true.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]
    No I don't check all of my internet sources.  Someone else dragged me into this boo boo.

    At least both Ineses were working for TV Azteca.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?" : No I don't check all of my internet sources.  Someone else dragged me into this boo boo. At least both Ineses were working for TV Azteca.
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]

    Dont' sweat it.

    A lot of people -- some who actually get paid to know better -- have been making the same mistake.



     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    It's a double standard, IMO. These girls purposely make themselves attractive to get attention from these guys. Now they expect the guys to become eunochs when they come into "do their job"? Sorry, but that is a bunch of horse sh*t! Someone said earlier we are not animals. But I beg to differ. We are animals, people certainly aren't plants! I know when I was 25 or so if I saw Inez coming towards me and I was only wearing a towel...well, she wouldn't need me to say anything to notice my "animal instincts" coming to bear! Avoid all this hoopla and simply interview the guys elsewhere. That's my solution. They tell the players to avoid situations and places where there's potential for trouble. Reporters should be advised the same. All these sideshows caused by the media only distract from the game.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    We are animals, but unlike most animals we have self control.

    Women shouldn't be allowed in men's locker rooms and men shouldn't be allowed in women's locker rooms. It's only asking for trouble.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?"

    In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?":
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Off topic... Women in "male" locker rooms?" : No I don't check all of my internet sources.  Someone else dragged me into this boo boo. At least both Ineses were working for TV Azteca.
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]

    There's a couple of websites that reported that when it first happened. I got burned on it too. When I'm wrong I just make believe I never said it. It works for Sports writers, Why not me?
     

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