Offensive Line VS Defense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Offensive Line VS Defense

    Our top 7 at Oline "was" in no order  Sea Bass, Light, Mankins, Neal, Kacur, Connolly, Koppen

    Light is a FA
    Neal is gone
    Kacur gone soon
    Mankins Unsigned franchise tag, stalled negoitations long term

    I think that OL is now or most important need.  Most here and most mock drafts have us drafting 2 DE/DTs in rounds 1-3.  We have great depth at DL were just lacking superstar talent, really only Vince.  Any thoughts???

    Another note;  Tom Brady is super important to Bob Kraft from a business stand point, TV ratings/merhcandise etc... all would go way down if TB was injured.  And BB knows he needs to keep TB upright to continue his success. Does anyone think Neal retiring might be the tipping point to get Mankins signed???

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    Great post and I couldn't agree more. what used to be NE strengths are becoming weaknesses. I think that NE almost has to hold tight now and use their picks then play the trade up and down game. Its just relieving to know that the two areas of need are both strong this year.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfan1994. Show patsfan1994's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    i couldnt agree more. Tom is the Franchise. He was getting hit to much in the playoff game against the jets and that was with our whole line there intact besides neal. Our defense did good down the stretch and although we need to upgrade our rush its not as important as keeping Brady up right
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    We still need a passrush. We can get OLine guys in late 2 and 3rd round. DE and OLB I hope we get early. Light may not want to go, the Pats have done him well. If we get Pouncy at 28 I wouldnt mind, but I don't think he'll last that long. The FA signings are still a unknown as well as the rook wage scale. No doubt Bill B has a plan, he always does.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    Well Kaczur is a loss be he was a non factor all year. Neal was a non factor all year and they already knew that next year would have been his last anyways so that doesn't change anything. Connolly played well as starting RG so even if Mankins leaves you only have to replace 1 G position.

    Essentially it boils down to you have to add depth and plan on replacing 2 starters. Now there is a lot of G depth in the 2-3 range and someone like Moffit or Watkins translates to a LG. Watkins is a player that can start right away and replace Mankins. With Light they have a chance to resign him at a reduced rate, how reduced we don't know but with Vollmer more then able to move to the LT position they really need to find a RT. Again the best RT's are usually found in the 2nd to 3rd round range no need to get the best T available unless you plan to make them LT and keep Vollmer at RT (hint not all LT's can translate to RT's, Light couldn't even when he was an all-pro).

    As for D if you look at the last 10 SB winners the only thing that ties the majority of them together is a top 10 D in limiting points. Our pass rush won't get it done and a impact RE. We might have depth at DL but no real impact players to replace Seymour, which is needed. You are hard pressed to find a impact DE later then the 20th pick so by need and talent a DE should be #17. The other need for a pass rush is OLB now this is where it gets interesting. The premier impact OLB's are projected to go in the top 20 but there are some good speciality pass rushers in the 2nd-3rd round area.

    What does all that mean? You grab an impact pass rusher either OLB or DE which ever is best available since you won't find an impact D player later in the rounds and with the next 3 you grab the best available players that fit your system on OL and the other pass rsuhing need depending on where those fall. Then later in the middle to late rounds you draft for depth on the OL with high upside projects and maybe one or two will work out.

    In otherwords you draft where the talent level for your need position. For the Pats it's:

    RE - 1st - early 2nd
    OLB - 1st - 3rd
    RT - late 1st - 3rd
    LG/RG - 2nd - 4th

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    Its very frustrating that this has happened. In a year when we can potentially address two very important needs, a solid 34 DE and a pass rushing OLB in the first round, we end up loosing key pieces on the Oline.

    I'm praying we resign Mankins and Light. I think O line can be addressed in the 2nd - 4th rounds with success but we will need starters, not projects and that is easier said then done.

    If we lose both Light and Mankins, drafting a RT and a Guard will become a major priority. Now yes you can grab both a RT and a G in the 2nd or 3rd round but will they be able to start right of the bat? Would you risk Brady's health with such a young line? I just don't know....

    But anyways, I'm very confident BB will know what to do.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfan0021. Show patsfan0021's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    I'm not sure we are going to resign Light.  This might be the first draft in recent memory where we do not trade 2nd round draft picks for future first round draft picks.  I think Bill might actually use all of his picks this year to bolster both the offensive line and defensive line.

    With all the labor difficulties I still think a rookie pay scale comes out of the new collective bargaining agreement so I think we are more likely to use our draft picks instead of trading them for future draft picks.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ender587. Show Ender587's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    Honestly it doesnt matter to me what Logan Mankins does.  When he held out we did just fine.. Tom stayed upright for the most part, and the games he was on the ground.. Logan was in the game.  Now im not crazy enough to say thats his fault or that he's not a great linemen, but we can do without him.  I hope we trade him and fill one of our other needs then we can just draft accordingly.

    I just dont like paying top dollar for a guy that can be replaced for much cheaper.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    unfortunately for the last couple months i have been thinking and posting of the possible situation which we can no longer ignore. And what is worst is the fact that the pieces we need on the OL have continued to move up the draft board. Where I originaly hoped to get Carimi at 28 won't happen, its 17 or you do without. Pouncey at 33, what a joke he has moved up to the mid teens possibly the 3rd OL taken, no chance. I Like Ijalana or Wisniewski at OG and hoped to pick him at 60 but that may be taking a risk, we may have to move up to 50 to get one if they are left. Ijalana's stock is riseing on many boards. Idealy would like to see Carimi at 17, Ijalana at 33, and Wisniewski at 60 to deal with and be near finished with the OL. I am tired of the Pats takeing chances on 4th,5th,and 6th rd. picks hopeing to find an OLmen strikeing out and waisting picks. You don't find starter quality OL in the 4,5,6, rounds. I also relize the need at DE and OLB so Hayward being a good fit for the pats will still be around at 28 and must be the pick there. Justin Houston may still be around at 33 and should be the pick if he is there. So with the priorities of OT at 17, DE at 28, and OLB at 33, that leaves us with moveing up from 60 to assure Ijalana as a mauling OG who played All four OL possitions. I no longer see any flexibility on the OL with Neil gone, Light in question, Mankins in question , and Koppen getting older and in need of an upgrade. I also see draft prospects Watkins age to be a major factor ( 27 before this season starts)and Hudsons smaller maxed out frame a factor. So I would hope for the draft to go 17 Carimi OT , 28 Hayward DE , 33 Houston OLB, 60 Ijalana OG ( may have to move up some), 74 Quinton Carter FS, 92 Niles Paul WR, 124 Bilal Powell, 156 Ugo Chinasa DE/OLB, 188 Greg McElroy. With the pick up of Carter I would expect Sanders to be traded for picks next year. Even though we pick up Carimi I would still try to sign Light to a friendly deal and if it looks like he is not needed for insurance trade him for picks to a LT needy team. Would also try to unload TBC even if it was for low picks clearing cap.  With Houstons pick up he is unneeded. Next years Ol, LT Vollmer, LG Mankins, C Koppen or Connoly, RG Ijalana, RT Carimi.  Next years defensive front seven, Ty Warren LDE, Wilfork NT, Cameron Heyward RDE, OLB Cunningham and Justin Houston, ILB Spikes and Mayo. This will be the last rebuild year, and start of the new dynasty.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense:
    [QUOTE]unfortunately for the last couple months i have been thinking and posting of the possible situation which we can no longer ignore. And what is worst is the fact that the pieces we need on the OL have continued to move up the draft board. Where I originaly hoped to get Carimi at 28 won't happen, its 17 or you do without. Pouncey at 33, what a joke he has moved up to the mid teens possibly the 3rd OL taken, no chance. I Like Ijalana or Wisniewski at OG and hoped to pick him at 60 but that may be taking a risk, we may have to move up to 50 to get one if they are left. Ijalana's stock is riseing on many boards. Idealy would like to see Carimi at 17, Ijalana at 33, and Wisniewski at 60 to deal with and be near finished with the OL. I am tired of the Pats takeing chances on 4th,5th,and 6th rd. picks hopeing to find an OLmen strikeing out and waisting picks. You don't find starter quality OL in the 4,5,6, rounds. I also relize the need at DE and OLB so Hayward being a good fit for the pats will still be around at 28 and must be the pick there. Justin Houston may still be around at 33 and should be the pick if he is there. So with the priorities of OT at 17, DE at 28, and OLB at 33, that leaves us with moveing up from 60 to assure Ijalana as a mauling OG who played All four OL possitions. I no longer see any flexibility on the OL with Neil gone, Light in question, Mankins in question , and Koppen getting older and in need of an upgrade. I also see draft prospects Watkins age to be a major factor ( 27 before this season starts)and Hudsons smaller maxed out frame a factor. So I would hope for the draft to go 17 Carimi OT , 28 Hayward DE , 33 Houston OLB, 60 Ijalana OG ( may have to move up some), 74 Quinton Carter FS, 92 Niles Paul WR, 124 Bilal Powell, 156 Ugo Chinasa DE/OLB, 188 Greg McElroy. With the pick up of Carter I would expect Sanders to be traded for picks next year. Even though we pick up Carimi I would still try to sign Light to a friendly deal and if it looks like he is not needed for insurance trade him for picks to a LT needy team. Would also try to unload TBC even if it was for low picks clearing cap.  With Houstons pick up he is unneeded. Next years Ol, LT Vollmer, LG Mankins, C Koppen or Connoly, RG Ijalana, RT Carimi.  Next years defensive front seven, Ty Warren LDE, Wilfork NT, Cameron Heyward RDE, OLB Cunningham and Justin Houston, ILB Spikes and Mayo. This will be the last rebuild year, and start of the new dynasty.
    Posted by part-timer[/QUOTE]

    part-timer,
        yes! i see some thinking in this one and addressing needs while observing what is happening, our desired players/positions moving up the board.

    2 things:
        does heyward/houston allow us to get pressure on the quarterback consistently where last year we could not.
       2, will mankins hold out against the tag?

    agree abpout signing light for injury insurance
    and dumping tbc (had proposed same on jet playoff loss day, among other things).
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    The Pats can grab a top OT and OLB in the 1st round and then a G/C and DE in the 2nd. this fills needs if the guys can contribute right away.

    So then you have new OT, Connolly, Koppen, new G/C and Seabass on the oline

    In theory the Pats have Ty Warren, Wilfork, Stroud and possibly G Warren as starters with Wright now better and back to training he can still contribute along w Brace and the other depth players. The new DE could then become a starter if he is better than Brace...... lets hope so
     
    OLB in the first round should be a starting caliber although may take time to rotate in the system and start latest by mid-year.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    I think O-line has been our most important need all along this offseason.  No change in my mind.  Neal's retirement was expected, Light and Mankins are both uncertain (though I suspect Mankins will sign the franchise tag tender--if there's a CBA that allows it), Connolly and Koppen are both average, and the back-ups are untested.  Yep, O-line is the Pats biggest need this offseason.   OLB and/or DL are next on my list (we could use both OLB and DL, but I suspect we'll get only one top guy and in that case, I lean more toward OLB than DL).  RB and (x-type) WR also remain big needs. After that, CB and safety continue to be areas where we can improve or get more depth.  ILB is probably okay with Spikes and Guyton beside Mayo, but that would be another area where I might take someone if there was value in the pick.



     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsBermuda. Show PatsBermuda's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    THE PATS  BETTER THINK DEFENSE....IM TIRED OF WATCHING QBs PICKn US APART WITH HOURS IN THE POCKET...OLINE WILL BE FINE...D NEEDS TO GO FIRST 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense:
    [QUOTE]The Pats can grab a top OT and OLB in the 1st round and then a G/C and DE in the 2nd. this fills needs if the guys can contribute right away. So then you have new OT, Connolly, Koppen, new G/C and Seabass on the oline In theory the Pats have Ty Warren, Wilfork, Stroud and possibly G Warren as starters with Wright now better and back to training he can still contribute along w Brace and the other depth players. The new DE could then become a starter if he is better than Brace...... lets hope so   OLB in the first round should be a starting caliber although may take time to rotate in the system and start latest by mid-year.
    Posted by Patriots1970[/QUOTE]

    This is my opinion.

    OLB and OT in the first round, DE and OG in the second.  Stroud pushes DE to the fourth priority of the 4 positions in my opinion.  OLB and OT are the primary needs.  OG could switch with OT if light is resigned, but he likely won't allowed to be before the draft.....
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense : Did you watch the playoff loss to the Jets where Tom was getting wacked all over the place and was sacked five times???
    Posted by Prophet76[/QUOTE]

    Did you watch the playoff loss to the Jets where Sanchez wasn't knocked down once yet alone sacked?

    Defense wins championships it's been proven time in and time out and if you are giving Sanchez 5 secs to throw the ball we will lose every time
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsBermuda. Show PatsBermuda's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense : Did you watch the playoff loss to the Jets where Tom was getting wacked all over the place and was sacked five times???
    Posted by Prophet76[/QUOTE]

    DID YOU WATCH IT... MARK SAT BACK AND PICKED US APART AND ALSO THE REST OF THE QB's IN THE LEAGUE THE WHOLE YEAR. HALF OF THAT PLAYOFF LOSS BLAME WAS PLAY CALLING NOT ALL ON OL.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense : Did you see my picks above??? I understand that, but to say that the O Line is fine/ will be fine is complete BS!
    Posted by Prophet76[/QUOTE]

    Lol just wanted to toss some sarcasm back after your post but forgot it doesn't come through to well over the net. People get way to heated with the draft OL early verses D early
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Offensive Line VS Defense : My bad man... hahaha... I think I need a beer!
    Posted by Prophet76[/QUOTE]

    I'm with yeah
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    Our D-lineman are fine at rushing the passer.  All we have to do is tell them to take the whole year off and hope the rest of the "D"  picks up the slack, and then you have a monster game in the playoffs.   It worked for the Jets and Shaun Ellis!  Im just saying..


    Everyone pointing to the fact that Ellis was able to get pressure thinks we need a 290 lb DE to do the same are failing to point out that Ellis was horrible all season!  He had that performance out of sheer revenge and pride!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FranklynDR. Show FranklynDR's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    Who are the best OL that are available as FA (or predicted to be soon)?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    INTERIOR LINEMEN:

    Carl Nicks (NO) – Both Jahri Evans and Nicks made it to the Pro Bowl this year, but it was Nicks who had the better season. The Saints run game was best when backs ran it up the middle and over left tackle, both partially attributed to Nicks’ success. The organization also just recently made Jahri Evans the league’s highest paid guard so it’ll be interesting to see if New Orleans also has the highest offer on the table for Nicks if he becomes an unrestricted free agent. They also have Bushrod and Jonathan Goodwin becoming free agents, so if they re-sign Nicks, it almost definitely will mean letting go of Bushrod at left tackle.

    Logan Mankins (NE) – The return of Logan Mankins has reinstalled some more nasty into the offensive line and bolstered protection for Tom Brady who has been able to sit back in the pocket and not force throws. With his return, the Patriots have sustained success in the run game with Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead, an unlikely tandem. Though he isn’t playing at quite the same level he was the past three seasons, Mankins continues to be one of the top guards in the league and will be handsomely rewarded this offseason.

    Davin Joseph (TB) – Davin Joseph was playing terrific football for the Buccaneers before he fractured his foot in November, sending him to the IR. He’s an excellent run blocker and a good pass blocker, who will one of the top guards if the Buccaneers allow him to reach free agency. Don’t expect them to just let their best offensive linemen go without a fight though.

    Harvey Dahl (ATL) – Ask opposing players who have faced Harvey Dahl and they’ll tell you that the right guard brings some extra nasty with him every week. He and Clabo combine to form a physical, dominant right side for the Atlanta Falcons, which allows the offense to control the line of scrimmage. Expect both to re-sign in Atlanta.This is the guy who i would like to sign especally if we cannot resign mankins!

    Ryan Kalil (CAR) – The Panthers have an uphill battle to return to the playoffs and seemingly have holes at nearly every position. However, center is not one of them, with Ryan Kalil playing consistently good football for them for the entirety of his rookie contract. Re-signing Kalil is the biggest no-brainer the Panthers have this year outside of drafting Andrew Luck if he decides to come out. Just don’t expect the team to use the franchise tag on him as offensive linemen are grouped together for the tag values, which means he’d be making the money of an offensive tackle.

    Daryn Colledge (GB) – Colledge has been a bit up and down this season. The Packers have struggled to run the ball with any semblance of consistency and some of that can be attributed to the offensive line. Colledge isn’t able to move defenders off the ball with regularity, but is pretty good in pass protection. With TJ Lang and several other potential prospects vying for left guard, the Packers may not have the money to commit to Colledge after they negotiate with more pivotal free agents.

    Other Notable Free Agents:
    Alan Faneca (ARZ)
    Deuce Lutui (ARZ)
    Lyle Sendlein (ARZ)
    Justin Blalock (ATL)
    Chris Chester (BAL)
    Marshal Yanda (BAL)
    Olin Kreutz (CHI)
    Evan Mathis (CIN)
    Kyle Cook (CIN)
    Nate Livings (CIN)
    Kyle Kosier (DAL)
    Jason Spitz (GB)
    Kasey Studdard (HOU)
    Mike Brisiel (HOU)
    Kyle DeVan (IND)
    Mike Pollak (IND)
    Rudy Niswanger (KC)
    Casey Wiegmann (KC)
    Richie Incognito (MIA)
    Nate Garner (MIA)
    Jonathan Goodwin (NO)
    Kevin Boothe (NYG)
    Samson Satele (OAK)
    Reggie Wells (PHI)
    Scott Mruczkowski (SD)
    David Baas (SF)
    Chris Spencer (SEA)
    Leroy Harris (TEN)
    Will Montgomery (WAS)

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Offensive Line VS Defense

    Tyson Clabo (ATL) – Clabo has formed one half of Atlanta’s dominant run-blocking right side. He’s a nasty, physical run blocking tackle who has developed into a steady pass blocker as well. Though the Falcons have several key components of their offensive line set to hit free agency this offseason, none will be more important than ensuring that Ryan stays upright than Clabo. Entering the league as an undrafted free agent, Clabo will be set to strike a lucrative deal.
     
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