Offers made

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mirage123. Show Mirage123's posts

    Re: Offers made

    I only wish is BB trades both 3rd rounders, so that we get out of 3rd round. BB has a terrible record with 3rd round picks.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Offers made

    I wouldn't be surprised if a team or several have showed interest but I also wouldn't be surprised if no one has shown interest about the picks. BB could be just saying that as a strategy to put some pressure on other clubs who are interested in moving up and some will offer a lot just to move up a little. Alot of smart clubs do this as strategy to raise the stock of their picks so that teams feel they are in competition with other teams in trading for the picks thus upping the asking price.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Offers made

    I don't see a lot of spots on this team available outside of the weaker spots:

    OLB, DE, OL, RB and WR

    So, drafting 10-12 players again is not really beneficial, in my opinion. They just did that the last 2 years with many young players making the team/proving they can start or fill a complementary role.

    If they love a player for one of these top 3 needs (in no order), they may trade up.

    If they view say, Solder, Carimi and Costanzo as the same value for OT, then they'll sit and wait at 17 for him.

    If Suh was in this draft, I'd say absolutely trade up.  Keep in mind, that rookie cap is a known done deal, so gambling on that being a reality moving forward is a good move.

    This should be a draft where trading up is a legit consideration.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from gln826. Show gln826's posts

    Re: Offers made

    Why does everyone think only elite players come from the top 10 picks?  If people actually look at the last 5 drafts, they would see as many misses, maybe more, than hits.  In 2009 Vollmer was the 7th OT taken in the draft as a late 2nd rounder, he became the best of all of them.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: Offers made

    In Response to Re: Offers made:
    [QUOTE]Sure, but they didn't pick good players with the picks they had. The Oscar Lua's of the world didn't even make a difference on special teams, which was a disappointment. No matter what trades they made, they didn't make the most out of the picks they had that year.  I know trades should be factored in some way, but the draft is about selecting players that can help your team and the pats didn't do that. Perhaps is they hit on a middle LB or a corner they would've won the SB in '07 going away?  In Response to Re: Offers made :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    I thought this note in the article said alot:

    5th-7th Round

    Seven players were drafted by the Patriots in these rounds, with only one ever seeing any legitimate playing time (Richardson).  The paucity of talent found in the other players  in these rounds speaks to overall talent level of the 2007 NFL Draft.  It is very possible that the Patriots were unable to unload these picks, as no team wanted to trade up.

    Grade: NA

    Hindsight: Out of the 120+ selections in the 5th-7th rounds, Legedu Naanee, Brent Celek, Pierre Thomas (UDFA) and David Clowney are the only players that would have had a chance to make the 2008 Patriots roster.


    2007 was not a deep draft, and Belichick knew it. He would have traded away some of those picks to later years if he could have, and he got as much as he could with what was available It is not every year you are going to find gems at the end of the draft.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Offers made

    Depends on the need and quality of the draft.

    Quality does not come from the top 10, exclusively, but in NE's position, they aren't many moves away from having a really legit complete team that plays like a 14-2 in the postseason.

    They may have posted a 14-2 record, but they overachieved and are a step away.

    This is the fear of the trolls who, deep down, know this is one more step closer to a reality.    If we can see it, and their unhealthy obsessions follow us around these boards, they can see it too. Unless, of course, their IQ's are really a collective 90.  They may be. lol

    I am not going to predict a multiple SB run here in the future, but they are clearly taking a methodical approach to make sure they have as close to a longstanding foundation as they can get.  This is whay they decided to do in 2008, 2009 and 2010.  Draft for quantity.  Overall, big picture it worked with it improving each year, most likely because the draft quality improved from 2008's and into last year's, which was considered the best quality since 1983.

    This means, with 3 picks, essentially with 1st rd value, they have the leverage over any team in the 1st rd in this draft. And, leveraging the extra pick (28 or 33), makes sense in this spot.

    If they are in love with Dareus (example) like they loved Warren, Wilfork or Seymour (yes, I know Seymour fell to them), and feel a need to make a trade to secure that player, this is the time to do it, in my opinion.

    They have a slew of young players on D that are now in this system, have played together, etc, especially on D.

    Now they need HIGH IMPACT players in the weak spots and to supplement the steady spots (QB, RB, WR, DT, MLB, CB, S and Special Teams).

    It would not surprise me at all to see them stick to a 2nd rd situation (or later) for OL, RB and WR.  Scarnecchia is so good at targeting people he can mold, they don't need to knee jerk for that.

    So, a safe bet is OT or Guard with 17 or DE/OLB like a JJ Watt.

    And with the WR and RB positions, they cost less in later rounds and there is less pressure.

    They can always bring in a veteran in FA in both the WR and RB spots AND draft for the future.

    I think the impact picks are clearly at DE/DL and OLB here.

    Nothing changes. NE targets specific players who fit what they want. It's always the intangibles (character, intelligence, drive to be better, etc) that NE holds over Combine numbers or college production anyway.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Re: Offers made

    I am glad this topic has generated some conversation, BBReigns I like your take on the upcoming draft situation and IMO I feel the time is now to use or move up for that gamechanger. I feel the Pats are ready and that with the talent they have accumilated they can win it all now, I truely believe that the foundation is set and that impact players are the way to go. I understand the merits of trading back, but with one or more pieces its raining confetti for NE again. This years draft could be as succesful as last years if the right players are taken.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Offers made

    I usually don't agree with Mel Kiper on anything whatsoever, but when he said NE's draft in 2010 was an A+ and they are set up for a "haul" in 2011, that's pretty scary.

    2009's draft is like a B+ to me.

    2008's draft is like a B-.

    B-, B+, A+.....So, I expect another A+ here in 2011 based on the amount of picks, some earlier rounds having twice the chance of hitting.

    This could be a '74 Steelers, '75 Cowboys or an '86 Niners draft for BB in 2011.


    1974 Steelers pulled Swann, Lambert, Stallworth and Webster.

    1975 Cowboys plucked a few great players like Randy White, Hollywood Henderson, etc. 

    But the best one may have been:

    1986 Niners: Rathman, McKyer, John Taylor, Charles Haley, Steve Wallace, Kevin Fagan and Don Griffin.  Wow.

    The 1996 Ravens draft was a great one, too.

    But, the 1986 Niners draft shows high quality and quantity, which is rare.  Many of those names are obviously not Hall of Famers, but they were perfect for need and system fits.

    The Steelers one shows very high quality all in one draft, with 4 HOFers.


      
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrcahill. Show jrcahill's posts

    Re: Offers made

    For those of you worrying about another bad draft such as 07 and 08, remember that the last 2 drafts have been pretty/very good.  It is not simply a coincidence that Flyod Reese was hired in 09 and instrumental in the last two drafts.  As long as this guy is on board, I have complete faith that the Patriots will draft well once again.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Offers made

    2007 was actually solid and LIKLEY would have been better if they had used the 2nd and 4th rd picks. Or the 7th, considering BB's success in that round.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Offers made

    07' is a weird one to look at.

    Just taking a look at the draft it was extremely weak to begin with. As someone pointed out past the 4th the draft was a relative bust for everyone so that leaves essentially 1-4 to prove you did anything. With those picks the Pats got 2 proven vets, a pro-bowl (I know I'm laughing at it too), a top 10 pick in 08', and a 3rd round player that didn't work out (and again looking at the draft not to many players in the 3rd worked out that year). I'd actually say they used their picks pretty efficiently that draft considering they ended up with 3 starters and a top 10 pick in 08's draft within the first 4 rounds of the draft.

    Yes 08 sucked but I'd argue that their pick efficiency has been above average to great for a majority of the drafts (I say efficiency because I consider trades for vets as using picks effectively or not). I guess the best comparison is to look at the Jets and how they spent a ton of picks to trade up in recent years. Because of this, along with missing on a couple picks, they needed to go out and spend big in the FA market. It seemed to work well this year but in the next couple years as those FA's get older and those rookie contracts expire it might be hard for them to pay everyone and they will have to fall back to a .500 team until they get out from some of those other contracts.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Offers made

    PATinPA - great thread; thanks for raising the topic.  Also some really good points raised by other posters. 

    I can certainly undertand why some of BB's moves in the draft seem peculiar.  I know they do to me.  (I never saw the McCourtey selection coming).  That said, I'm hard pressed to second guess him after the last 2 drafts.  I will confess, however, that I am not as well-versed on who may or may not be available in picks 6 through 10 which is what bundling picks 17 and 28 or picks 17 and 33 could potentially get in a trade. 

    The question I would pose, as others have, is: Is the drop off outside the top 10 that significant in terms of projected available talent such that it would make that kind of a trade worthwhile? 

    Gotta say, though, I am intrigued by the potential this draft can produce for the Pats.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ShiningWizard. Show ShiningWizard's posts

    Re: Offers made

    Belichick's strategy has been to trade down and stockpile picks in the 2nd round, which I admit can be frustrating as a draftnit because you see all this talent being gobbled up by other teams that you could've had for yourself.  However, I can see the logic in this approach because Belichick is looking to completely overhaul his roster with younger talent, and you can only do that in a short amount of time by having multiple draft picks.  Trading up in the draft with a specific player in mind is still a hit or miss strategy. 

    For example, look at 2002 and trading up to draft Daniel Graham.  He was a good TE for several years, but he didn't max out his potential and become the player everyone had hoped.  Compare that to having several picks from previous trades and having the luxury to draft a pair of promising TEs in one draft like Gronk and Hernandez. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Offers made

    This is the year the Pats need to draft an IMPACT defensive player and not a "project" type player.  Granted, with another year under their belts and all those injured players returning, the D may be much better than expected in the 2011 season.  But, I hope the Patriots look to get a good player out of the shute!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Re: Offers made

    Wizard I agree the stockpiling approach is the way to go when you want to rebuild and I also believe that NE has done an excellent job the last 2 years getting the pieces to do this. My concern with the slide approach is that for NE the pieces are there now and there is no reason to continue it. When does it end? 
    I am almost certain that NE is the youngest team in the NFL or at least close to it, and while continuing to stock pile players that will be ready 2-3 years down the road gives us no real value now. If they continue to take flyers on maybees and not scoop up the gauranteed talent now it does a disservice to the fans. I realize Belicheck has forgotten more than I will ever know but as a fan I am having a hard time with the exciting but fruitless 14-2 and 16-0 years. Patience is a virtue that I personally do not have. Am I being a little greedy? I sure am, but living in western Pa I need another Super Bowl to quiet the chest puffed, know it all Steeler Fans.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Offers made

    The good news is, when the Steelers lose the SB, they'll tumble downhill for years to come.

    Dick LeBeau is 74 and will likely retire.

    When you consider what their D looked like when he left Pitt and went to Cincy, and then returned, or what it looked like with Polamalu and Foote not there last year, they're teetering on some very thin ice when this is all said and done.

    Timmons looks like a keeper in the middle, but beyond that, they better have some people ready to step up to fill the older players' shoes.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATinPA. Show PATinPA's posts

    Re: Offers made

    I agree but those SOBS always find a way to win, and it will be interesting to see if Tomlin can do it on his own. I just think that this years draft if we can stay put and pick WILL be the one that makes NE the elite by far in the NFL. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Offers made

    In Response to Re: Offers made:
    [QUOTE]Sure, but they didn't pick good players with the picks they had. The Oscar Lua's of the world didn't even make a difference on special teams, which was a disappointment. No matter what trades they made, they didn't make the most out of the picks they had that year.  I know trades should be factored in some way, but the draft is about selecting players that can help your team and the pats didn't do that. Perhaps is they hit on a middle LB or a corner they would've won the SB in '07 going away?  In Response to Re: Offers made :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    The Pats precisely did that. They have selected numerous players that have helped them considerably.
    I think we as fans tend to think of the draft as an insulated, 3 day process. BB looks at it as a multi-year strategy with multiple dimensions including draft, FA, etc.
    If you consider the whole body of work over the last 4-5 years, I think you have to give BB a pretty good grade. Did he miss on some picks? sure he did. But what he has assembled over the last 4-5 years leave most teams in the NFL just jealous.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Offers made

    In Response to Re: Offers made:
    [QUOTE]Wizard I agree the stockpiling approach is the way to go when you want to rebuild and I also believe that NE has done an excellent job the last 2 years getting the pieces to do this. My concern with the slide approach is that for NE the pieces are there now and there is no reason to continue it. When does it end?  I am almost certain that NE is the youngest team in the NFL or at least close to it, and while continuing to stock pile players that will be ready 2-3 years down the road gives us no real value now. If they continue to take flyers on maybees and not scoop up the gauranteed talent now it does a disservice to the fans. I realize Belicheck has forgotten more than I will ever know but as a fan I am having a hard time with the exciting but fruitless 14-2 and 16-0 years. Patience is a virtue that I personally do not have. Am I being a little greedy? I sure am, but living in western Pa I need another Super Bowl to quiet the chest puffed, know it all Steeler Fans.
    Posted by PATinPA[/QUOTE]

    I hear you on this, but I think BB is always going to push some picks out to the year after. As you say though, there comes a point where you have a ton of youth, and now must pick high impact players, high in the draft. We have 6 prime picks. I think BB uses 3, trades 3 down or out. question is what 3 does he use and what 3 does he trade?
    Personally, I think it depends on the real-time events of draft day...if at 17 a player he covets is still there, he will take him. If the board is not running the way he likes, he may trade 17 down into the 20-23 range, and pick up a player plus 2nd rounder next year. I can see this possibly happening with 2 of our first 3 picks, where we trade down a bit and pick up 2 2nd rounders next year.
    I think this might make you crazy as it does me, but I'm not getting my hopes up on BB picking where we are always slated, this year or any.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Offers made

    In Response to Offers made:
    [QUOTE] In Bill Belichecks most recent press conference he commented that he has already recieved calls regarding his first 3 draft picks. I personally feel that (and my opinion means nothing)if they are not used or packaged to move up then they are wasted. Living in Pa I repeatedly have to suffer hearing the Steelers fans lawd the excellence of the Steelers and I realize that their franchise is top notch, but I do not agree that their team is in any way, shape or form better than NE's. One area I do feel they exelled at is their ability to bring in first round talent that makes an immediate contribution. My point in this is that NE needs to take a more proactive approach to the draft and draft some real talent early instead of waiting and hoping that it works out like the Steelers have done. I hear alot on this website about trolls and wanna be GM's, my intention is not to bash the organization in any way or thinking that I know better. My prespective come entirely from what I see and feel and I know players need time to develop, but  trading back in my opinion is a detriment not an advantage.
    Posted by PATinPA[/QUOTE]

    My Mom, a NE native lives in PA with her third husband and is in a state of constant torment during football season, being married into a steelers' family and subjected to the non-stop steelers boasting and fan mania all the while knowing, as we all do, that the pats are a far superior team.

    But answer me this PATinPA, what's up with those stupid f-in towels? Where did that come from?

    One of my favorite playoff moments was in one of the Pats' victories in Pissburg, when, during the last few minutes of a steeler azz whipping, Deon Branch was walking around the sidelines, facing the crowd, waving his towel and shrugging in puzzlement, yelling at the fans, "where's your towels, where's your towels"?
     
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