OG Brian Waters a Patriot

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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    After QB the oldest average age in the NFL is for Center and Guard.  It seems like interior linemen have an age related down slope later than most other positions.
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot : He's a solid/good starter and proved it last year.  Russ Hochstein didn't win key battles either. Connolly, very quietly did a nice job last year and you act like he didn't.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

         Connolly is a decent player, who is best suited as a reserve...and nothing more. The Pats needed to upgrade the RG position, even if Connolly had not been injured.
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    This is a great signing.  We had a pretty bad ofensive line and little in the player development area. It sure seems like we are going for it all this year with all the free agent signings.  If we don't win the superbowl it will be a lot worse than last year.

     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]I hate to say "I told you" to the people who thought Dan Connolly could cut it on a Super Bowl contender, but "I told you"
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]


    Yeah . . . and same goes for those who said we should let Mankins walk because Connolly was just as good . . . 

    Anyone seen Rusty around?Tongue out
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]This is a great signing.  We had a pretty bad ofensive line and little in the player development area. It sure seems like we are going for it all this year with all the free agent signings.  If we don't win the superbowl it will be a lot worse than last year.
    Posted by rayclay[/QUOTE]

         To me, the play of the OL was the most disappointing aspect of the pre-season. The "Big Uglies" must do a better job of protecting Tom Brady.
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot : Yeah . . . and same goes for those who said we should let Mankins walk because Connolly was just as good . . .  Anyone seen Rusty around?
    Posted by prolate0spheroid[/QUOTE]

    He's too busy trying to convince me that Connolly was a better lineman than Mankins last year
    - /> page 2 HERE: http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3aa9dd8207-f3d2-4f2f-aefa-6ea4fce9c729

    LMAO

    sure, less penalties and less sacks, but also less +'s on the o-line coach's grade sheet.  zeros don't win ball games, Russ.  You actually want to be able to run plays behind a guy for him to be a superior offensive lineman.
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot : Sure. RIght here. Facts hurt: 2010 Stats: Mankins - 9 games, 3.5 sacks allowed 1 hold, 1 False Start. Connolly - 14 games, ZERO SACKS, 1 hold and ZERO False Starts. Numbers do not lie and Connolly did that on either side of the line.  And he performed very well against beastly front lines like SD, Minny, Balt, etc. I hate to be rude, but I watch these games and my eyes absolutely did not lie to me.  So, I was right. It was the same crap when some analyst said Vollmer "regressed". BALONEY. 1 Sack allowed (Cameron Wake in Week 4), 2 Holds, 1 False start. The fact is, Bill O'Brien failed in the games where NE tried to throw on good front 7s with a sell out gameplan to quell the shotgun/spread offense. Go read the new SI.  Rex Ryan comes right out and says NE's red zone offense is spread and checkdowns. Just infurirating for them to think it's such a genius move, when in reality, it's Bill O'Brien not adusting to what NY was doing. This turned up in the Cleveland and Detroit games and then in the playoff game. All 3 times, Brady was sacked and hurried. I could have told you this in Week 1 last year.   This is why the overrated Mankins ALSO looks bad in that offense, not just your choice of a scapegoat, whether it be Koppen or Connolly.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

         You may be right about your stats, but Connolly was awful in the pre-season.

     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]Waters is old but he has plenty left in the tank according to all the snoops in the media. So now the Patriots have All Pros at 3 of the 5 O-line positions and another who is a multiple pro bowler and Vollmer is on the verge of being both. With Cannon and Solder in the waiting in the wings and Connolly as the main b/u on the interior this O-line should be solid... As for the need for an extra TE both Maneri and Solder have experience from their college days as Te's albeit as blockers for the most part.
    Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE]

         Hope You're right.
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

         Here's another good article on Waters: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/7/29/2302596/brian-waters-release-free-agency
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]     Here's another good article on Waters: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/7/29/2302596/brian-waters-release-free-agency
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Thanks. I was hoping it had something to do with him and his skillset.  As it turns out, it's just a stroy about how much that reporter likes him.
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot : What? He played in two games against Jax and TB where the offense was electric! Are you drunk?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

         Perhaps it is you that's drinking the spiked koolaid, Russ.

         The Bucs hit Brady far too often. If I'm not mistaken, Connolly also played in that horrific loss to the Lions. He, and the interior of the Pats' OL, has already been called out on at least two occasions by Tedy Bruschi:


         "Another thing that stood out to me was that Brady absorbed a few hits in the second quarter. Specifically, it was the matchup of Bucs DT Gerald McCoy against RG Dan Connolly that proved problematic. McCoy clubbed Connolly to the right, had a direct path to Brady and got a good shot on the QB. Connolly has been solid, but he has to expect a team's best interior rusher to be aligned over him.



         Looking ahead to the quality of interior defensive linemen the Pats will face, starting this week with the Lions and Ndamukong Suh, I think that's an area to highlight. I could see the Lions' coaching staff thinking that right guard would be the best area to target. From a defensive standpoint, the idea is to generate pressure from the middle of the pocket and get Brady off his spot": http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/6877638/bruschi-tap-new-england-patriots-embracing-new-defensive-scheme, and


    Tom Brady
    takes a beating.
    It was obvious that the Lions wanted to hit Brady early. The past two weeks we've touched on some questions with the interior of the Patriots' offensive line, and starting right guard Dan Connolly suffered an ankle injury on the team's first kickoff return (he plays in the wedge) and I think that hurt him. He never really had a chance. He hadn't even been in an offensive huddle, already had a sore ankle and then he turns around and Ndamukong Suh is waiting for him. That's not going to be good. So Connolly goes down, Rich Ohrnberger comes in and now you're drastically overmatched at the position: http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/6904553/bruschi-tap-new-england-patriots-need-more-just-tom-brady

     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

         Here's more on Connolly...and his poor pre-season play: http://www.nesn.com/2011/08/patriots-dud-in-detroit-should-pave-way-for-interesting-week-in-new-england.html
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    Manieri  was  released.   I  don't  think  BB  is  finished  with  the  OL.  I  hope  they  can  add  Gurode  for  a  reasonable  price, if  he's  recovered from  knee  surgery.  I  know  that  Koppen  is  valued  by  many  posters  and  the  mantra  has  been - " we  can  replace  Koppen  next  year."  However, I  believe  Koppen  is  another  weak  link  in  the  interior  OL.  Why  not  replace  Koppen  this  year  with  Gurode ?
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]Replacing a Center now? No way. If they had a mini camp and normal FA period, yes. This is whay a David Baas would have been a nice add here, where you move him in at Guard and then he takes over next year for Koppen.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

         Are you suggesting that BB made another personnel mistake in not adequately fortifying the interior of his OL?
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    When did Koppen become a player that needs to be replaced? The only issue I have seen is depth at guard. Rich on IR and Connoly with a bum ankle. Another example of injuries occurring.

    Texas Pat would probably have you believe that this is a "haunting" personnel mishap when in fact its just the nature of the beast. Injuries happen.
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    i've read in multiple places that waters didnt get along with pioli and hailey- i assume this conflict is related to contract restructuring. anybody hear of the specific nature of problem
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    i really like this move, he basically replaces the sorely missed and underrated stephen neal. waters has a little more talent that neal but hes the same age neal would be and adds physicality. waters when his career is over will go into the hall of fame as one of the best guards to ever play the game.
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    In Response to Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot:
    [QUOTE]When did Koppen become a player that needs to be replaced?
     
    RESPONSE: He never seemed to be quite the same player since he severly injured his left shoulder on November 15, 2005. Though still a reliable player, the somewhat undersized Koppen turns 32 years old on opening night.:
    http://www.patsfans.com/articles/patriots/2865/Koppen-Out-For-Season.html, and
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Koppen

    The only issue I have seen is depth at guard. Rich on IR and Connoly with a bum ankle. Another example of injuries occurring.
     
    RESPONSE: Both of these guys, especially Ohrnberger, are stop-gap players, at best. The Pats need an upgrade at RG. Hopefully, Waters will fit the bill.

    Texas Pat would probably have you believe that this is a "haunting" personnel mishap when in fact its just the nature of the beast. Injuries happen.

    RESPONSE: Just to refresh your recollection, the Pats' lost their last three playoff games to teams that succeeded in pressuring Brady up the middle. That's where Connolly, Ohrnberger, and Koppen reside. The Pats need to upgrade both RG and C positions.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    tp you wore down ud6.... i dont think you will do that with rusty...
     
    i dont have a problem with pats bringing in a good veteran at guard... cannon will definatly fill that role in future but thats a while away... 
    let them all compete...
    i def want to be able to run ball at will so we can switch sh*t up whn we have to get rush off brady...and close games out...and im more concerned at tight end...   thinking about it... he must have been thinking solder can be that addtional tackle like te...

    why didnt i see that...some other poster did...it makes sense...

     
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    Re: OG Brian Waters a Patriot

    Plusses:  Waters has all of the experience in the world.  He's a great locker room guy, and the Chiefs apparently missed him in their locker room.  He got thrown out of Kansas partly because of long-term friction with Scott Pioli and coach Haley.  This year, Waters and his agent dared them to toss him out and then they tossed him.  BB will like the fact that the Patriots play Kansas City this year. 

    Minuses:  He was born during the Eisenhower Administration.  Guys that old, even if they have only missed 3 games in a decade or more, aren't completely durable.  My guess is that he might hold up until Cannon comes off the PUP/non-football injury (chemotherapy) list.  If he's still somehow going after 12 games then Cannon can sit and back him up.  Connolly can get the job done for maybe 1 game or so, and is an ok backup.

    Waters was canned because his salary cap was too high versus his production was so-so this year, the Chiefs had some other starting guards and he was a malcontent.  I don't expect him to be excellent, just better than Connolly who really struck out in preseason.  I think Waters can start versus Miami.
     
     
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