Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    Belichick is the king of team.  He rewrote the opening sequence of the super Bowl...  having his TEAM run out together for the first time in history.  this resulted in the end as a success.

    No one is bigger than the team.  Brady takes paycuts.  Big name players get cut or traded  (milloy, seymour, samuel, moss, Lloyd, Welker, Law, etc). 

    Versatile team players are valued... (troy brown,  Edelman(we hope), Ninkovich, )  talented individuals are discounted...  Blount, Talib (we expect).

    The IRONY is that as a coach, it is all about HIM.  He grooms his coaches from nobodies so that they carry out everything according to his own philosophy, doctrine, etc.  which has resulted in the end as a failure.


    Since the departure of coaches (weis, Crennel) that could truly be called collaborators not just underlings,  Belichick has ultimately failed in the big games.  (2 super bowls, 3 ACCCGs, 3 other playoff games)

    This perspective becomes more apparent as the years waste away,  but there was a warning back in  2005 that the loss of Weis in particular would be a damaging blow to this team.


    The IRONY is MR. Team is actually the individual talent that he shuns...  and this ends up hurting the team.     wow...   pretty deep but theres a lot of truth there for those who can handle it.

     

     

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Belichick is the king of team.  He rewrote the opening sequence of the super Bowl...  having his TEAM run out together for the first time in history.  this resulted in the end as a success.

    No one is bigger than the team.  Brady takes paycuts.  Big name players get cut or traded  (milloy, seymour, samuel, moss, Lloyd, Welker, Law, etc). 

    Versatile team players are valued... (troy brown,  Edelman(we hope), Ninkovich, )  talented individuals are discounted...  Blount, Talib (we expect).

    The IRONY is that as a coach, it is all about HIM.  He grooms his coaches from nobodies so that they carry out everything according to his own philosophy, doctrine, etc.  which has resulted in the end as a failure.


    Since the departure of coaches (weis, Crennel) that could truly be called collaborators not just underlings,  Belichick has ultimately failed in the big games.  (2 super bowls, 3 ACCCGs, 3 other playoff games)

    This perspective becomes more apparent as the years waste away,  but there was a warning back in  2005 that the loss of Weis in particular would be a damaging blow to this team.


    The IRONY is MR. Team is actually the individual talent that he shuns...  and this ends up hurting the team.     wow...   pretty deep but theres a lot of truth there for those who can handle it.

     

     

     

     



    He's the highest paid coach in the league.  The discounts apply to all but him.  bow to the master.  Kiss the rings that were won so long ago.   

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    ..so, all of a sudden, the "vision" of team that BB had in the early days of great success is now no longer about team but HIM?  Think about what happened to the Pats over the years.

    The coaches you mentioned.  Why did they leave?  Because they did not like BB?  No.  They left for better opportunties for them.  What about all the players that left?  They left because it WAS about them and not the team.  Those that stay, giving the team a "discount", stayed for TEAM and it was not about themselves.

    Why do so many teams want to model themselves after the Pats?  It is the TEAM model BB preaches and we hear so much about from players.

    You point about BB failing in big games.  Could it be he was not all about himself and counted on the coaches and players to do their jobs?  If it was about himself, he would have been hiring and firing coaches like a machine gun.

    There has to be something about how BB manages this team to achieve the consistent success he gets out of it year in and year out compared to other NFL teams.  What do you recommend he change to improve on it?  Fire himself?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    I see what you're saying, yes. I'm sure they'd have won 6 or 7 SBs by now if he'd just let the assistant coaches do their own thing. They need a Barry Switzer type to put them over the top.

    The system is clearly broken. Hopefully Kraft wises up and cans him before it's too late. Maybe that's the problem, we need a Dan Snyder/Jerry Jones type of owner. Keep the coach in his place.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Belichick is the king of team.  He rewrote the opening sequence of the super Bowl...  having his TEAM run out together for the first time in history.  this resulted in the end as a success.

    No one is bigger than the team.  Brady takes paycuts.  Big name players get cut or traded  (milloy, seymour, samuel, moss, Lloyd, Welker, Law, etc). 

    Versatile team players are valued... (troy brown,  Edelman(we hope), Ninkovich, )  talented individuals are discounted...  Blount, Talib (we expect).

    The IRONY is that as a coach, it is all about HIM.  He grooms his coaches from nobodies so that they carry out everything according to his own philosophy, doctrine, etc.  which has resulted in the end as a failure.


    Since the departure of coaches (weis, Crennel) that could truly be called collaborators not just underlings,  Belichick has ultimately failed in the big games.  (2 super bowls, 3 ACCCGs, 3 other playoff games)

    This perspective becomes more apparent as the years waste away,  but there was a warning back in  2005 that the loss of Weis in particular would be a damaging blow to this team.


    The IRONY is MR. Team is actually the individual talent that he shuns...  and this ends up hurting the team.     wow...   pretty deep but theres a lot of truth there for those who can handle it.

     

     

     

     




    Weiss & Crennell hugging with BB after our last SB win....    Frame It!  Its Ova

    Funny how I knew it then but I keep holding out hope. Lets be real, Having those 2 was like having 3 head coaches. No I dont want to get into the "what has BB done without x,yz" talk but its too obvious to ignore. We can talk about how close he got all we want but the fact is, noone remembers 2nd place.

    I mean I understand BB wants to win one soley on his own and all that but the lack of any real coaches coming aboard cant be understated. I would even venture to say we may be currently the only team not employing an ex player as a coach after Peppers left. So basically we have a WHOLE STAFF of coaches who never played the game and we wonder why we get embaressed in the playoffs?  You need guys who been there in the trenches or a vet coach like Crennell who relates well to players.

    I personally would love to see Gruden come here and help on offense as much as others probably hate him. Too Bad Collingsworth is such a good commentator because he would make a great WRs coach. He knows the game in and out. Patricia and McDaniels?? By time they get the needed experience, our Golden Boy will be long retired...... smh

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    So it's not only McDaniels but Belichick for whom you have a raging you-know-what!  Wow!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    ..so, all of a sudden, the "vision" of team that BB had in the early days of great success is now no longer about team but HIM?  Think about what happened to the Pats over the years.

    The coaches you mentioned.  Why did they leave?  Because they did not like BB?  No.  They left for better opportunties for them.  What about all the players that left?  They left because it WAS about them and not the team.  Those that stay, giving the team a "discount", stayed for TEAM and it was not about themselves.

    Why do so many teams want to model themselves after the Pats?  It is the TEAM model BB preaches and we hear so much about from players.

    You point about BB failing in big games.  Could it be he was not all about himself and counted on the coaches and players to do their jobs?  If it was about himself, he would have been hiring and firing coaches like a machine gun.

    There has to be something about how BB manages this team to achieve the consistent success he gets out of it year in and year out compared to other NFL teams.  What do you recommend he change to improve on it?  Fire himself?




    The point is that he replaced established coaches who had pedigree, experience and the STATURE to talk to him to his face on his level...  With NOBODY.

    do you remember in 2005,   Mr smug 3 -out -of 4  did not even name an OC...?  Think about that and what it means.   It means that he thought he could do it himself.  He thought the position didn't matter (that much).   "the plays will get called " was his quote.  

    That is really dimwitted to approach it that way don't you think...?  Lost in this was the time that weis spent grooming and coaching Brady and how important that confidence was in winning those big games.  10-0 I believe it was...  


    Agree that gress is not always greener if you're Dallas for instance...  but the approach failed and it's difficult to deny that.  another approach ( like now for instance ) is to bring in an established offensive mind to run the offense and work with Brady while BB takes a back seat.  Can he do it...?  Probly not.

    Look at 2007.  YOu need no other example really.   18-0 with an unbelievably stacked team.    The Patriots lost the Super Bowl as 14 point favorites.  Do you know how much of an offensive failure that is. ? The JINTS were no juggernauts.  They lost 9 games.

    Who lost that Game ..? mcd.  and the offense had no answer for what the Jints were doing. It was AMATEUR HOUR....   Just like 2011.  There was no plan B or tweak to the offense that could take them over the top.    Failure.  Belichick needs to face it and change the approach while Brady is still playing at a decent level.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleTimmy31. Show LittleTimmy31's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to UD6's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Belichick is the king of team.  He rewrote the opening sequence of the super Bowl...  having his TEAM run out together for the first time in history.  this resulted in the end as a success.

    No one is bigger than the team.  Brady takes paycuts.  Big name players get cut or traded  (milloy, seymour, samuel, moss, Lloyd, Welker, Law, etc). 

    Versatile team players are valued... (troy brown,  Edelman(we hope), Ninkovich, )  talented individuals are discounted...  Blount, Talib (we expect).

    The IRONY is that as a coach, it is all about HIM.  He grooms his coaches from nobodies so that they carry out everything according to his own philosophy, doctrine, etc.  which has resulted in the end as a failure.


    Since the departure of coaches (weis, Crennel) that could truly be called collaborators not just underlings,  Belichick has ultimately failed in the big games.  (2 super bowls, 3 ACCCGs, 3 other playoff games)

    This perspective becomes more apparent as the years waste away,  but there was a warning back in  2005 that the loss of Weis in particular would be a damaging blow to this team.


    The IRONY is MR. Team is actually the individual talent that he shuns...  and this ends up hurting the team.     wow...   pretty deep but theres a lot of truth there for those who can handle it.

     

     

     

     



    He's the highest paid coach in the league.  The discounts apply to all but him.  bow to the master.  Kiss the rings that were won so long ago.   



    At least the Pats won a few rings........

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    Kraft should definately consider firing BB. Enough is enough already! I would love for the Pats to get in on the Rich Kotite sweepstakes, but landing him is just wishful thinking.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to Homecheese's comment:

    Kraft should definately consider firing BB. Enough is enough already! I would love for the Pats to get in on the Rich Kotite sweepstakes, but landing him is just wishful thinking.




    I was thinking we could send some draft choices to the jets to try and pry Marty Mornhinweg away.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Belichick is the king of team.  He rewrote the opening sequence of the super Bowl...  having his TEAM run out together for the first time in history.  this resulted in the end as a success.

    No one is bigger than the team.  Brady takes paycuts.  Big name players get cut or traded  (milloy, seymour, samuel, moss, Lloyd, Welker, Law, etc). 

    Versatile team players are valued... (troy brown,  Edelman(we hope), Ninkovich, )  talented individuals are discounted...  Blount, Talib (we expect).

    The IRONY is that as a coach, it is all about HIM.  He grooms his coaches from nobodies so that they carry out everything according to his own philosophy, doctrine, etc.  which has resulted in the end as a failure.


    Since the departure of coaches (weis, Crennel) that could truly be called collaborators not just underlings,  Belichick has ultimately failed in the big games.  (2 super bowls, 3 ACCCGs, 3 other playoff games)

    This perspective becomes more apparent as the years waste away,  but there was a warning back in  2005 that the loss of Weis in particular would be a damaging blow to this team.


    The IRONY is MR. Team is actually the individual talent that he shuns...  and this ends up hurting the team.     wow...   pretty deep but theres a lot of truth there for those who can handle it.

     

     

     

     




    absolute power corrupts absolutely

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    In response to Homecheese's comment:

    Kraft should definately consider firing BB. Enough is enough already! I would love for the Pats to get in on the Rich Kotite sweepstakes, but landing him is just wishful thinking.




    I was thinking we could send some draft choices to the jets to try and pry Marty Mornhinweg away.



    That would be a great option! I always admired his work when he was head coach of the Lions. Maybe a package deal of Mornhinweg and Matt Millen as the GM. He's known to have an eye for talent and draft WR's in the first rd every year.  We'd never worry about Tom having a lack of weapons ever again!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

     

    ..so, all of a sudden, the "vision" of team that BB had in the early days of great success is now no longer about team but HIM?  Think about what happened to the Pats over the years.

    The coaches you mentioned.  Why did they leave?  Because they did not like BB?  No.  They left for better opportunties for them.  What about all the players that left?  They left because it WAS about them and not the team.  Those that stay, giving the team a "discount", stayed for TEAM and it was not about themselves.

    Why do so many teams want to model themselves after the Pats?  It is the TEAM model BB preaches and we hear so much about from players.

    You point about BB failing in big games.  Could it be he was not all about himself and counted on the coaches and players to do their jobs?  If it was about himself, he would have been hiring and firing coaches like a machine gun.

    There has to be something about how BB manages this team to achieve the consistent success he gets out of it year in and year out compared to other NFL teams.  What do you recommend he change to improve on it?  Fire himself?

     




    The point is that he replaced established coaches who had pedigree, experience and the STATURE to talk to him to his face on his level...  With NOBODY.

     

    do you remember in 2005,   Mr smug 3 -out -of 4  did not even name an OC...?  Think about that and what it means.   It means that he thought he could do it himself.  He thought the position didn't matter (that much).   "the plays will get called " was his quote.  

    That is really dimwitted to approach it that way don't you think...?  Lost in this was the time that weis spent grooming and coaching Brady and how important that confidence was in winning those big games.  10-0 I believe it was...  


    Agree that gress is not always greener if you're Dallas for instance...  but the approach failed and it's difficult to deny that.  another approach ( like now for instance ) is to bring in an established offensive mind to run the offense and work with Brady while BB takes a back seat.  Can he do it...?  Probly not.

    Look at 2007.  YOu need no other example really.   18-0 with an unbelievably stacked team.    The Patriots lost the Super Bowl as 14 point favorites.  Do you know how much of an offensive failure that is. ? The JINTS were no juggernauts.  They lost 9 games.

    Who lost that Game ..? mcd.  and the offense had no answer for what the Jints were doing. It was AMATEUR HOUR....   Just like 2011.  There was no plan B or tweak to the offense that could take them over the top.    Failure.  Belichick needs to face it and change the approach while Brady is still playing at a decent level.

     

     




    the Giants lost 6 games in 07

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to UD6's comment:

    He's the highest paid coach in the league. 



    Actually he's not.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to UD6's comment:

    The discounts apply to all but him.



    Care to elaborate?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    He's the highest paid coach in the league. 

     



    Actually he's not.

     




    who is?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)


    he starts these threads all the time about how bad a situation the Pats are in.....enough.....they are in it every year...enjoy the ride

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    who is?



    Sean Payton.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to Iceman4's comment:


    he starts these threads all the time about how bad a situation the Pats are in.....enough.....they are in it every year...enjoy the ride




    You don't get it - a complete remake of the coaching staff is necessary for the Pats to succeed because they aren't at all competitive.  Oh, wait, I guess they are.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)


    What I find amusing is that I'd bet out of 32 teams, I'd say at least 25 of them would trade their coach for BB in a second.

    But here in New England, where we are in the playoffs almost every year, and at least have a shot.....people want BB gone.

    I've come to the conclusion that certain people will never be happy with anything in their life....not just football. So we get threads like this....

    I mean seriously, if there are (better) coaching options out there...I'm all ears....

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    This is what I am talking about. This is what this board has come down to. "Fans" of this team who I am staRting to realize are newer fans because anybody who remembers the pre Kraft era thanks their lucky stars for Bill Belichick and the best record in football and the most championships in 13 years. 

    Spoiled by success, it is a disease, a sickness. It is similar to what happens with addicted gamblers. You win and you want more, feel you are entitled to more, get angry and lash out when you don't get more and think or say stupid things.

    Here is a clue, if the Patriots team had made 1 more play in 3 different years they would have 6 NFL championships in 13 years. That is how close BB got his teams. If the other teams had made 1 less crucial play they don't win, we do. It is that close. 

    We aren't broken.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    This is what I am talking about. This is what this board has come down to. "Fans" of this team who I am staRting to realize are newer fans because anybody who remembers the pre Kraft era thanks their lucky stars for Bill Belichick and the best record in football and the most championships in 13 years. 

    Spoiled by success, it is a disease, a sickness. It is similar to what happens with addicted gamblers. You win and you want more, feel you are entitled to more, get angry and lash out when you don't get more and think or say stupid things.

    Here is a clue, if the Patriots team had made 1 more play in 3 different years they would have 6 NFL championships in 13 years. That is how close BB got his teams. If the other teams had made 1 less crucial play they don't win, we do. It is that close. 

    We aren't broken.



    1 or more play in 3 other years you may have 0 championships too

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    This is what I am talking about. This is what this board has come down to. "Fans" of this team who I am staRting to realize are newer fans because anybody who remembers the pre Kraft era thanks their lucky stars for Bill Belichick and the best record in football and the most championships in 13 years. 

    Spoiled by success, it is a disease, a sickness. It is similar to what happens with addicted gamblers. You win and you want more, feel you are entitled to more, get angry and lash out when you don't get more and think or say stupid things.

    Here is a clue, if the Patriots team had made 1 more play in 3 different years they would have 6 NFL championships in 13 years. That is how close BB got his teams. If the other teams had made 1 less crucial play they don't win, we do. It is that close. 

    We aren't broken.



    1 or more play in 3 other years you may have 0 championships too



    Same applies to the Giants (Norwood, Tyree, etc.).

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    This is what I am talking about. This is what this board has come down to. "Fans" of this team who I am staRting to realize are newer fans because anybody who remembers the pre Kraft era thanks their lucky stars for Bill Belichick and the best record in football and the most championships in 13 years. 

    Spoiled by success, it is a disease, a sickness. It is similar to what happens with addicted gamblers. You win and you want more, feel you are entitled to more, get angry and lash out when you don't get more and think or say stupid things.

    Here is a clue, if the Patriots team had made 1 more play in 3 different years they would have 6 NFL championships in 13 years. That is how close BB got his teams. If the other teams had made 1 less crucial play they don't win, we do. It is that close. 

    We aren't broken.



    1 or more play in 3 other years you may have 0 championships too



    Absolutely right! That is the game jints. If your gints dont make the tyree catch, the manningham catch, they were forgotten. " The inches we need are all around us". Hey you guys did it, we didn't but we were good enough to be there and easily could have won it....a far cry from the assesment of "fans" on this board.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Oh .... the IRONY (if you know what that is...)

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    This is what I am talking about. This is what this board has come down to. "Fans" of this team who I am staRting to realize are newer fans because anybody who remembers the pre Kraft era thanks their lucky stars for Bill Belichick and the best record in football and the most championships in 13 years. 

    Spoiled by success, it is a disease, a sickness. It is similar to what happens with addicted gamblers. You win and you want more, feel you are entitled to more, get angry and lash out when you don't get more and think or say stupid things.

    Here is a clue, if the Patriots team had made 1 more play in 3 different years they would have 6 NFL championships in 13 years. That is how close BB got his teams. If the other teams had made 1 less crucial play they don't win, we do. It is that close. 

    We aren't broken.



    1 or more play in 3 other years you may have 0 championships too



    Same with the giants board cop

     
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