OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    Pats cap space is now front and center...yes?  During our resign Spikes discussion, this is the contingency that posters alluded to... Can't do it...  cap..., injuries... Need the money for flexibility in crisis situation.  Does VW injury qualify.?  

    What is the move?  Invest is a real proven player as in, using your cap money, or do you just rely on your depth, practice squad, and project players.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    If the $$ is right on both sides, yes.  If not, he goes.  VW doesn't enter into it IMO.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    If the $$ is right on both sides, yes.  If not, he goes.  VW doesn't enter into it IMO.



    +1, you can always manage the cap number for extensions so that they don't have a great effect on your current cap (see Nink's extension which barely moved the cap). If they want to extend Spikes they can extend him regardless of their cap situation at this point. Wilfork injury has nothing to do with it. Actually the Wilfork injury barely has to do with all the money they currently have on the cap. Barring a major trade (which are rare in the NFL) there is not a single available DT that most of the cap would go to. Of which you are looking mostly at min deal so even then there is no need for this much extra cap room. The irony behind that this is the reason they kept extra cap room to cover injures is that if they spent a little more during the FA period to get depth at an obvious shallow position like DT not only qould we currently have a higher quality replacement readily available than what is currently on the market there would no need to go out and spend any type of real money as they could still pull a Vellano or Jones off the PS to cover the lose of depth from the injury.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

     

    If the $$ is right on both sides, yes.  If not, he goes.  VW doesn't enter into it IMO.

     

     



    +1, you can always manage the cap number for extensions so that they don't have a great effect on your current cap (see Nink's extension which barely moved the cap). If they want to extend Spikes they can extend him regardless of their cap situation at this point. Wilfork injury has nothing to do with it. Actually the Wilfork injury barely has to do with all the money they currently have on the cap. Barring a major trade (which are rare in the NFL) there is not a single available DT that most of the cap would go to. Of which you are looking mostly at min deal so even then there is no need for this much extra cap room. The irony behind that this is the reason they kept extra cap room to cover injures is that if they spent a little more during the FA period to get depth at an obvious shallow position like DT not only qould we currently have a higher quality replacement readily available than what is currently on the market there would no need to go out and spend any type of real money as they could still pull a Vellano or Jones off the PS to cover the lose of depth from the injury.

     

     




    The cba also has provisions for injuries  that allow teams to go over the cap when a guy goes on IR.

     

    SO the question of cap space remains.  If this situation with VW doesn't prompt the spending then what does?  Or is it simply too early in the season for anything to qualify as a crisis...?  on a side note, using some to extend talib wouldn't hurt my feelings...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    Rusty said its already been proven. We dont need to actually use it. Just the fact that we could use it is enough to keep it around. Ijs, If I was an owner I would have no problem with that. I mean Goodell is making 30 million. If Kraft is gonna keep a little pocket change, who am I to say anything? I only attend preseason games. I just want a good product on the field.

    I tend to slightly agree with those who say that Wilfork was a round peg in a square hole in this defense. 2 years ago he made some plays but his real worth is as 3-4 N.T.

    With the 4-3 we run, I was really hoping we would go after Jason Jones who looked great early on and wasnt that expensive. A leaner DE/DT type who was still stout and can rush the passer. I would trade for someone though if there was a cheap option

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Of which you are looking mostly at min deal so even then there is no need for this much extra cap room.



    Actually there is.  Virtually all of the cap room we have now was carried over from last season.  If we were to use it we'd go into next season over the cap or dam close to it assuming the flat cap continues for another season.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    ....


    The cba also has provisions for injuries  that allow teams to go over the cap when a guy goes on IR. 

    SO the question of cap space remains.  If this situation with VW doesn't prompt the spending then what does?  Or is it simply too early in the season for anything to qualify as a crisis...?  on a side note, using some to extend talib wouldn't hurt my feelings...



    I don't think there's any such provision in the CBA, but willing to stand corrected if you're sure about that? As far as I understand, Wilfork's entire contract will count and there's no cap relief because he goes on IR. There are split contracts where a player gets less if he goes on IR, but those are for lower paid players, not guys like VW.

    The salary cap is kind of a non-issue at this point of the season. Bottom line, as Eng said, there's nobody on the street they can sign that would justify spending any meaningful cap dollars on. That guy would be playing somewhere by now. That is, unless they do something stupid and desperate and give Seymour some big money, and we know the chances of that are nil.

    The only caveat to that is a trade, which might require using up some significant cap dollars. But trades involving high salary vets are very rare in the NFL, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to coolade2's comment:

     

    The cba also has provisions for injuries  that allow teams to go over the cap when a guy goes on IR.

     

    SO the question of cap space remains.  If this situation with VW doesn't prompt the spending then what does?  Or is it simply too early in the season for anything to qualify as a crisis...?  on a side note, using some to extend talib wouldn't hurt my feelings...



    Actually to me the earlier a season ending event happens to a starter the more critical it is to find a replacement because that replacement will effect more games then in the short term. Also, I would say this situation would prompt spending but on who? FA's that would cut into the cap aren't available at this time of year. You are mostly looking at retreads, close to retired, JAGs, or injured recovery projects. None of which will cost much against the cap. The only thing that could put a dent into the cap would be a trade but to get a good player you are going to have to give up something good (do you see BB giving up a 1st for Taylor? I would love to see it but I doubt he ever would) or you are taking in a malcontent/underperformer with a larger contract (see Talib last year) of which case you are more likely to get a player who won't work in the system then one that would.

    The main reason for this much cap is extensions or to carry it forward. The thing is extensions are great and techinically you do spend to the cap but how does that help this year? Clever cap management can extend or resign a player at the end of the year before the enter the FA market without having to use this years cap to do so. When you have a solid team you can use this years cap to extend players earlier which is great, however, if you have lack of depth at certain positions the question becomes would the money be better spent on quality depth to make a run this year or extending players for future runs. Imo SB contenders should plan for this year first if they feel they are that close and most importantly teams with aging QB's should plan a bit more short term. Rebuilding teams have the benfit of looking more long term and teams with younger QB's but imo the Pats should have planned better for this year and built better depth then hoarding cap to spend on future years through extensions or cap carry over.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    Of which you are looking mostly at min deal so even then there is no need for this much extra cap room.



    Actually there is.  Virtually all of the cap room we have now was carried over from last season.  If we were to use it we'd go into next season over the cap or dam close to it assuming the flat cap continues for another season.

    [/QUOTE]

    For some reason I thought it was closer to 50/50 this year and last (or 60 this/40 last) but I don't really know for sure. Do agree that really not a good idea to spend to the cap though.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Of which you are looking mostly at min deal so even then there is no need for this much extra cap room.

     



    Actually there is.  Virtually all of the cap room we have now was carried over from last season.  If we were to use it we'd go into next season over the cap or dam close to it assuming the flat cap continues for another season.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    pcmIV what is the likelyhood we'd use the $7.2mil that the NFLPA says we have just in injury replacement? I mean really do you think there are any players available in FA for that much money or that we would sustain that many injures that we'd use all of that? I have always said you have ~$3mil reserve just in case but I have yet to see any team who needed to use all $3mil to cover injures and at that point your team is going to be so riddled with injury odds are you aren't going to the SB at that point anyways. So please explain why we need that much cap space as the vast majority of teams don't go into the season with that much room as just in case injury funds. As for if we signed a player and his numbers go into next year why is that a bad thing? We have a ton of dead money coming off the books and if a player we signed as depth is a good player we were going to have to sign a depth player anyways so that money would have been spent one way or another anyways. It's not like we are talking about Pit's or the Jet's cap situations. A couple mil over is easily correctable. Now 10+mil over isn't but there are ways around smaller amounts with cap management. Since BB is a cap genius he should have zero issue taking care of it. All this does is push money that could have been used to improve the team this year into next year and actually as you said this years money is last years money so that would be 2 years worth of funds not used in that year for the benefit of the next year? That makes sense if you are rebuilding or have a young QB but when you are a SB contender and have an aging QB it doesn't make much sense to push it 2-3 years down the road when the money could have been spent providing depth which unfortunately we now need

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    How much can we carry over to next year? 5m like this year? 

    The vw injury brings up a ton of questions. First off is, is he ever going to play again? these Achilles injuries are tricky. If he doesn't, its a double whammy in that we have a ton of dead money in he and hernandez, plus have to grab a player of good caliber to replace him.

    at this point, i don't think there is a solution other than using who we have and/or bringing back forston or Francis. I don't see a trade. There are some scraps out there, but I think we can cobble a decent line together with who we have and use the cash to extend a few players and carry some into next year to cover the dead money.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    WHile I like SPieks and want them to extend him I think priority is (1) Talib (2) Talib (3) DT/NT (4) C/G (5) Stud DE unless Buchanan is believed to be a significant talent...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    Agree. Spikes is low on my resign list. Talib and a top notch DT are 1 and 2. Groom Collins, fletcher and Stevie B.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    Call up Mike Wright!

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

     

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Call up Mike Wright!

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

     

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver



    Man o man, I liked Wright.  Blue collar DT who typically left it all out there and produced while he did.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    While I really like Spikes, very good vs the run, I must admit he is limited.  The Pats shouldn't break the bank or rush to sign Spikes to keep him.  A limited player, only played 6 of 76 snaps vs the Falcons, they need to focus the money more on players who are more versatile.

    Talib has to be re-signed.  Or does he receive the franchise tag next season due to not being able to come to terms.

    Pats need to bring someone in to fill Vince's shoes.  Not sure who, but I don't see anyone on the roster now who can fill in good enough... do you?

     

     

     

     

    ---------------------------------------------

    "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anybody else."  Text received by Tom Brady from Kurt Warner after Ravens loss.


    view my Patriots photoshops at patsfanfotoshop.tumblr.com





     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    I think we all agreed that Spikes is a gonna after this year and it may be both a fit here and some on the personal side as well?

    Talib is going to ask for the moon....

    Next year is Vince's last year of his deal...7.5 mil...and he will need to re-work that..

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    pcmIV what is the likelyhood we'd use the $7.2mil that the NFLPA says we have just in injury replacement? I mean really do you think there are any players available in FA for that much money or that we would sustain that many injures that we'd use all of that? I have always said you have ~$3mil reserve just in case but I have yet to see any team who needed to use all $3mil to cover injures and at that point your team is going to be so riddled with injury odds are you aren't going to the SB at that point anyways. So please explain why we need that much cap space as the vast majority of teams don't go into the season with that much room as just in case injury funds. As for if we signed a player and his numbers go into next year why is that a bad thing? We have a ton of dead money coming off the books and if a player we signed as depth is a good player we were going to have to sign a depth player anyways so that money would have been spent one way or another anyways. It's not like we are talking about Pit's or the Jet's cap situations. A couple mil over is easily correctable. Now 10+mil over isn't but there are ways around smaller amounts with cap management. Since BB is a cap genius he should have zero issue taking care of it. All this does is push money that could have been used to improve the team this year into next year and actually as you said this years money is last years money so that would be 2 years worth of funds not used in that year for the benefit of the next year? That makes sense if you are rebuilding or have a young QB but when you are a SB contender and have an aging QB it doesn't make much sense to push it 2-3 years down the road when the money could have been spent providing depth which unfortunately we now need



    I'm not sure we're on the same page.  I'm not talking about injury replacement.  IDK where you are getting that idea from.  I'm saying we are currently spending almost to the existing salary cap and that the only reason we have much space at all is because we carried over from last season and that was basically carried over from the season before that.  We will be up against the cap next season too if it stays flat with the contracts we already have on the books (because of Hern's dead money and because guys like Brady, Wilfork, Amendola, Gronk, Mayo and Mankins all have higher cap hits next year than this one).  If we want to continue to spend to the unadjusted salary cap every year the carryover becomes important particularly if we want to resign Talib.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     


    I'm not sure we're on the same page.  I'm not talking about injury replacement.  IDK where you are getting that idea from.  I'm saying we are currently spending almost to the existing salary cap and that the only reason we have much space at all is because we carried over from last season and that was basically carried over from the season before that.  We will be up against the cap next season too if it stays flat with the contracts we already have on the books (because of Hern's dead money and because guys like Brady, Wilfork, Amendola, Gronk, Mayo and Mankins all have higher cap hits next year than this one).  If we want to continue to spend to the unadjusted salary cap every year the carryover becomes important particularly if we want to resign Talib.

     



    Only if you use it! We haven't used it and if you are trying to say going 2 years back we knew we would need it to sign Talib then that's impressive. But, carrying over the same amount every year over and over again doesn't help the team that year. Not to mention there are ways to work around that amount so it's not like they don't have methods to get it back if they do decide to spend it and need to sign someone later. All I'm saying is if you put off the money indefinitly how does that help you at all? Careers don't last forever and if you miss the SB because you are missing a couple extra pieces does carrying that money over really matter at that point? It's like having a groupon, you have it but don't use it so you complain and they let you roll it over into a new one. You do this over and over again but what does it matter if you never actually use?

    BTW I got injury replaces because your original comment quoted me talking about min deals of injury replacements not effecting the cap so it seemed like a logical assumption that you were commenting off of that

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: OK Capoligists... here's your contingency situation.

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    I think we all agreed that Spikes is a gonna after this year and it may be both a fit here and some on the personal side as well?

    Talib is going to ask for the moon....

    Next year is Vince's last year of his deal...7.5 mil...and he will need to re-work that..

     

     

     

    So wilfork is making HALF of what Seymour makes ( if he played). What's wrong with THAT picture...?

     

    Regarding the cap discussion, the only thing that makes sense is its money in Kraft's pocket.  Its a discipline.  The space is there because it is what it is, and Kraft likes it that way.    its his money.

     

     

     

     
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