One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 1:33 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : You have yet to refute the point that the great HC and great QB would make many other teams as good or better than the Pats have been in the last 5-7 years. Failing to refute that shows BB is no better than a buinch of other GMs that have built a team equal to or better than that which BB has built.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    Not sure that you can either prove or refute such an assertion.  In responding to you earlier I posted:

    That's a tough one, Babe.  I am of the opinion that BB drafts and pursues FAs to suit his coaching style.  Hardly a radical idea but my point is that merely supplanting BB and TB onto a team comprising players that are not 'BB types' would not necessarily produce the same result.  I doubt you will find this a particularly compelling argument particularly since you and I view BB differently in his GM role. 

    Perhaps not a refutation but given the nature of the task it's the best I can do.
     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 1:44 PM EDT

    All the free agents the Pat's bring in, good or bad, are brought in for pennies on the dollar.  Moss, Andre Carter, Anderson, Corey Dillon etc... Whether you think they were a great signing or not, what you can't say is that the GM overpaid.

    The draft is a crap shoot, nobody is perfect at it because you're dealing with people, people are unpredictable.  

    BB has struck gold on as much or more of his share of picks compared his peers, it's why his practice squad players hang around for about two minutes before other teams poach them. 

    Moreover they way the GM wheels and deals on draft day results in multiple first and second round picks year after year.  Who else has as many quality picks in the first two rounds coming off a Super Bowl appearance?

    You are what your record says you are, we are the best run organization in sports.  If we lose it's because we've been a victim of success and other teams take our coaches away before they can even learn what it means to be a coordinator, we've lost on the field not in the back office. 

    Josh McDaniel's was the youngest head coach ever, he has come full circle now and is back to where he belongs. 

    We lost the Super Bowl because the offense couldn't convert first downs, because the defense caused three fumbles but the ball bounced the Giant's way, because the offense couldn't execute the 2 minute drill, and largely because of stupid penalties like a safety and 12 men on the field, which doesn't happen when a head coach has reliable coordinators by his side... ours are all coaching somewhere else after one season. 

    The "bad GM" premise is stupid... 

    Figure it out...

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 1:50 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : You have yet to refute the point that the great HC and great QB would make many other teams as good or better than the Pats have been in the last 5-7 years. Failing to refute that shows BB is no better than a buinch of other GMs that have built a team equal to or better than that which BB has built.
    Posted by BabeParilli



    Was it Shula or Marino who stunk ?????????
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 2:01 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    The coach and the QB have undoubtedly masked some of the flaws on this Pats roster over the years.  Brady has had one head coach, he's run one offense (despite mulitple coordinators) and BB hasn't had to search for a QB for a decade.  There is no doubt that this this kind of continuity has contributed to the success of this team the past decade.  I am of the opinion that Brady would have been a very good QB anywhere and that BB would have found a guy to win with at QB if Brady was never here.  (To the tune of a 3-2 record in Superbowls, I am not so sure.)  Brady and BB would be successful as individuals but each has enhanced the other's career.  If BB is here post-Brady, I think this team will still be competitive.    
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn


    Good points. But even if Brady is gone and the team remains competitive, much of that will be because of BB the coach and not BB the GM.
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 2:02 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : Was it Shula or Marino who stunk ?????????
    Posted by Asher77



    A bit of both. But to say they stunk is a bit harsh.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 2:03 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    The "bad GM" premise is stupid...  Figure it out...
    Posted by wozzy



    I have yet to see anybody saying BB is a bad GM.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 2:06 PM EDT

    Shula and Marino; The most successful coach in NFL history and the NFL's all time passing leader and how many rings did they win together?
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 2:07 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : I have yet to see anybody saying BB is a bad GM.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    You never say anything until after you've already said it.
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 2:08 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : Not sure that you can either prove or refute such an assertion.  In responding to you earlier I posted: That's a tough one, Babe.  I am of the opinion that BB drafts and pursues FAs to suit his coaching style.  Hardly a radical idea but my point is that merely supplanting BB and TB onto a team comprising players that are not 'BB types' would not necessarily produce the same result.  I doubt you will find this a particularly compelling argument particularly since you and I view BB differently in his GM role.  Perhaps not a refutation but given the nature of the task it's the best I can do.
    Posted by ATJ



    It isn't a refutation. I think too often persons pigeon hole BB into a certain style. I think he has shown as coach he can do well in just about all the styles. He appears to have preferences, but I'm quite certain if he has a HOF caliber player that wasn't suited to his optimal style he would adapt the style to accommodate that players superlative skills.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 2:30 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : It isn't a refutation. I think too often persons pigeon hole BB into a certain style. I think he has shown as coach he can do well in just about all the styles. He appears to have preferences, but I'm quite certain if he has a HOF caliber player that wasn't suited to his optimal style he would adapt the style to accommodate that players superlative skills.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    I don't disagree with you on BB's ability to adapt but I think you'd also have to agree that your premise can neither be proven nor refuted.  The premise is purely hypothetical. 
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 3:34 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    Shula and Marino; The most successful coach in NFL history and the NFL's all time passing leader and how many rings did they win together?
    Posted by wozzy


    Insert the sound of crickets from Babe, his typical response to sheer, sound logic.  

    And as this thread fades from view, he already plots his next negative Patriot thread with a slightly positive slant so as not to alert the naive to his true trollish nature.
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 3:51 PM EDT

    ... crickets
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 4:30 PM EDT

    Futile discussion as BB is not now and has never been the GM of the Pats.  You never see him in any ranking because he has never held that title.
    The closest they have to a GM is Caserio and Pioli when he was there.
      They are considered the de facto GMs.
    BB does assume some of the duties and has the final say, but that is all.
    He is not the GM...........Brady occasionally rushes, is he a running back?



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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 8:11 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : You think panic signing of street scrubs is planning for every contingency? Because our D had a bunch of that last season. This whole focus on the Mangold/Koppen replacement scenario falls far from the mark of shedding significant light on how good BB is as a GM. It's one small slice of the picture and narrowly focused regarding the breadth of pertinent comparisons. In other words; why are we discussing the relative depth at center of us and the jets? It's not 1/1000th of the answer.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    The defensive backfield was left shorthanded last year, no question about it. Coming out of training camp, the coaching staff decided to go with a very young group including Devin McCourty, Kyle Arrington, James Ighedibo, Patrick Chung, Ras-I Dowling, Sergio Brown and Josh Barrett. They obviously believed they could coach this group up (is that considered a coaches decision or a GMs decision??). However, McCourty got hurt, Ighedibo got hurt, Barrett got hurt, Dowling got hurt and Chung got hurt, some for longer periods of time than others, but all for long enough that it affected more than one position for many weeks. Brown just is not a starting NFL safety, and Arrington actually had a pretty good year. In hindsight, BB probably should have kept Sanders around, at least until he knew what he had with the younger guys. Yes, the Pats did have to sign some guys off the street and used some backup WRs as DBs. And somehow they made it work well enough to the point where they had the lead in the Super Bowl with under 2 minutes to go. No other team that had 5 injuries to their top 7 defensive backs would have been near the big game. As for the Koppen/Mangold comparison, that is just one example. How many times have announcers talked abut the Pats and mentioned the 'next man up' philosophy, its what the team is known for. Last year it was Solder stepping for in Vollmer, and Edelmann and Slater as DBs, the year before it was Woodhead stepping in for Faulk, before that it was BJGE stepping in for the whole backfield, before that it was Cassell stepping in for Brady, before that it was Ohrenberger and Levoir and Wendell and Hochstein and Billy Yates filling in all over the OLine, and Troy Brown playing DB very well and Mike Wright and Marquis Hill and Ty Warren and Jarvis Green and Hank Poteat and Earthwind Moreland and...
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/28/2012 10:14 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : You have yet to refute the point that the great HC and great QB would make many other teams as good or better than the Pats have been in the last 5-7 years. Failing to refute that shows BB is no better than a buinch of other GMs that have built a team equal to or better than that which BB has built.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    He doesnt have to refute anything!!!!!!!!!!!! He made some good points. Why dont you actually refute someone elses good points????? Maybe because all you can say is "I am right, you are wrong and if you say anything besides the very specific points I made you have said nothing...." so much for Babe on GMs.
     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/29/2012 11:47 AM EDT

    Crickets
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/29/2012 1:51 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : TB hasn't won an SB in years because the GM BB doesn't have the great inherited players to fill out the team that he had when they were actually winning them and BB the GM has to try to win the SB with the team he built around Tom. It's pretty obvious.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    fraud
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/29/2012 3:52 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make : He doesnt have to refute anything!!!!!!!!!!!! He made some good points. Why dont you actually refute someone elses good points????? Maybe because all you can say is "I am right, you are wrong and if you say anything besides the very specific points I made you have said nothing...." so much for Babe on GMs.
    Posted by portfolio1


    Also, keep in mind he has the market cornered on Brady underoos.   His buddies Prolate, Hurl and the trolls they enable do as well.  All agenda.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make

    posted at 3/29/2012 4:05 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: One Single example of the difference a really good GM in the cap era can make:
    The Jets have Mike Swinging Genius Tannenbaum.  This guy has been legendary.  He's really bad. He drafted DeWayne Shrimpy-Arms Robertson, Vernon Stone-Hips Gholston, the Sanchize, and Kyle Mini-Me.  I ragged on all of these guys right from draft day (and in the case of Stone-Hips and Tebow too, from a week before draft day).  When I can consistently outdraft an NFL general manager, that's a pretty bad sign.  He signed an over-the-hill LaDanian Tomlinson, who couldn't run the ball at all.  Tomlinson is still waiting for somebody, anybody, to sign him for 2012.  He signed a guy who, with the playoffs on the line, gave up playing in the huddle in the Jets' most recent loss.  Tannenbaum loves to sign people who act utterly stupid and often violent when extremely drunk, which is early and often.  Nobody knows quite how toxic the Jets' locker room is at this point, but it's bad enough that Peyton Manning ran the other way. Now Tannenbaum signed Tebow to complement Sanchize.  Trouble is, the two QBs do not at all complement each other.  Neither one should be on the field in obvious passing situations.  Maybe Rex Ryan is going to put himself in at QB when it's third and 10.    Tannenbaum got ridiculed by one columnist for not looking at Tebow's contract before he agreed to the trade.  New York has to pay half of Tebow's Denver bonus now. 
    Posted by Paul_K


    To be fair, he didn't draft Robertson., It was Bradway.  But, I do believe Tannenbaum was on the staff in 2003, before being promoted to GM.

    But, yes, he's one of the worst GMs in the NFL. Funny how much changes when Al Davis dies.