ORGANIZATIONAL COHERENCE matters...Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Systems matter... Mr. Brady, meet Mr. Cutler!

    It's clear that Cutler has all the physical ability in the world, the size and arm strength to make all the required throws etc.  It's also clear that he's an aweful decision maker and reader of defenses/coverages who relies too much on said physical ability which far too often results in turning the ball over.

    Jay, buddy, Jeff George part Deux.....I don't care how strong your arm is, you can't throw the ball through a person.....until you can learn to be smart with the football, you are not an elite QB (Brady/Manning/Brees etc), let alone a second tier QB (Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Rivers, Shaub etc). 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Systems matter... Mr. Brady, meet Mr. Cutler!

    In Response to Re: Systems matter... Mr. Brady, meet Mr. Cutler!:
    [QUOTE]It's clear that Cutler has all the physical ability in the world, the size and arm strength to make all the required throws etc.  It's also clear that he's an aweful decision maker and reader of defenses/coverages who relies too much on said physical ability which far too often results in turning the ball over. Jay, buddy, Jeff George part Deux.....I don't care how strong your arm is, you can't throw the ball through a person.....until you can learn to be smart with the football, you are not an elite QB (Brady/Manning/Brees etc), let alone a second tier QB (Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Rivers, Shaub etc). 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]i agree but the potential clearly was there. if favre can get this smart at 40, cutler has the capacity to learn that too under the right coach. ques is mental and thus in his head. does he want to be more of a check-down, game manager types esp when the situatn calls for it due to what the defense is giving u? or do u want to continue being the bad/stereotypical jeff george (great example) gunslinger type? even george, though had a MVP type season with vikes bak in the day with the not-so-great dennis green at the helm, was able to make some adjustments and was a bit more accurate and used better judgment in his Minny years. i think there is hope for cutler. with time, the rough edges caused by his mental immaturity could be refined. i used him as a worse-case example for a brady. i am nervous about him and the conclusions during his contract talks this offseason! hopefully, he really has not changed that much in reality....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsRfineIn09. Show PatsRfineIn09's posts

    Re: Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!

    Speaking of Cutler, he was fined 20k today for '' whining ''. Poor baby.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4651973
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!

    In Response to Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!:
    [QUOTE]i have seldom seen a qb look worse than cutler just looked tonite. i do not believe this guy just lost all his talents overnight. had he stayed with josh in denver, he could likely be engineerg  an 8-0 team right now (assumg his strengths would have won the 2 they lost). he had every ingredient necessary and in place with denver. he could still do it in denver but it wont be with lovie at the helm. will need a cowher or another skilled  but firm vet coach to keep him in line and run the show. will also need some skilled receivers that come from the top of the draft or free agent class. plus more depth at running bak esp now that forte has regressed. he pretty much has to unnecessarily tinkle with a whole new system and approach at the midpoint of his career.  conversely, our tommy has had it really good with pats. same owner, coach/gm, same approach, core good of on-the-same page receivers, OL, and running baks (regardless of talent peak). plus the synergy extends to how we play defense. they are there to help the offense a bit too, in same way the offense dominates possession of the ball to help keep the defense off the field. if brady really prioritizes all this and how great he has had it here (unlike what cutler did), he should easily be signed, sealed and delivered by training camp of next year for at least the next 5 years. 
    Posted by choircontrarian[/QUOTE]

    This whole "system QB" business is a crock. Its not about the system, its about the rest of the team other than the QB. Cassel does well in NE but not so much in KC, whose offense is very similar. What's that have to do with a system?

    His oline sukks, his defenses sukks, his WRs sukk and he has no running game. Think maybe these issues migththave to do with Cassel's perfomance?

    Likewise cutler. he did well in denver because he was surrounded by quality players. the bears sukk and his performance drops too. what's that got to do with a "system"?

    does favre's performance in minnesota make him a "system qb" for the vikings?"
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DBAZ22. Show DBAZ22's posts

    Re: Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!

    Cutler is the modern day Jeff George - Can throw an 80 yard frozen rope, but will never be a winner...Both me guys think there isn't a throw they can't make, and more often than the results show that they are wrong frequently. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!

    In Response to Re: Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler! : This whole "system QB" business is a crock. Its not about the system, its about the rest of the team other than the QB. Cassel does well in NE but not so much in KC, whose offense is very similar. What's that have to do with a system? His oline sukks, his defenses sukks, his WRs sukk and he has no running game. Think maybe these issues migththave to do with Cassel's perfomance? Likewise cutler. he did well in denver because he was surrounded by quality players. the bears sukk and his performance drops too. what's that got to do with a "system"? does favre's performance in minnesota make him a "system qb" for the vikings?"
    Posted by unclealfie[/QUOTE]again, u clearly didnt evolve your mind within the thread. i said clearly that i am not a believer of the system qb thing for most qbs and definitely with brady and peyton. but yes, as bel has said over and ober... "all qbs have strengths and weaknesses. the trick is to lean more towards their strengths as is and minimize the things they dont do so well". in this case, i believe bel was specifically talkg about cassel and his inability at this time to go deep. cassel would be an all-pro had he gone to the broncs. from the film i see on KC and when i watched them here when they played the ravens in baltimore, is that healey (from his AZ days), loves to go deep a la Warner. thats just not cassel's strength. orgaNizational coherence would have dictated that paoli also bring josh with him and then bring in cassel.. now, you are really in some chaotic territory. cassel has to try to b something he is not great at yet or have a coach curb what he wants to do. coherence is when everyone is rowing in the same direction as it is with the pats in most cases, from the very top to the bottom.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: ORGANIZATIONAL COHERENCE matters...Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!

    To ALL:

    Whether or not Tom Brady can and should be diagrammed as a "System Quarterback", IMO, Is not the critical dialectic here.  Brady does some things that the majority of NFL QBs just cannot do, yet like every creature, He has his weaknesses.  The key rhetoric must be centered around and viewed in the larger light of comparing Tom Brady's abilities with, and under the scope of Bill Belichick's Coaching...

    IF one has to define what makes Bill Belicheck a successfully elite NFL Coach in a mere few words, I would have to say: Recognition of Talent, Adaptability/Innovation, and finally, Exploitation of the aforementioned characteristics.  These are not merely A, B, and C linear list traits, But They are characteristics that become melded, circular, each feeding off one another... First, and as a side note, I want to recognize and make the reader aware I know
    that ALL Coaches do these things to a degree...IMHO however, BB takes it to an entirely different plain...upping these trait's antes, doing it more, and much better than most...

    So now, Just as BB recognizes the Talent of His Opponents, He likewise recognizes His own talent.  BB, in seeing each Individual Player's inherent strengths and weaknesses, things they are good at and things they are not so good at, Uses this talent evaluation, and being adaptable, exploits His Player's strengths by placing them in personell and schematic situations that play off of what each Individual's good at.  He in turn, as a consumate "Team" Coach, can utilize what some guy's really good at, in order to mask at times an ability and/or situation wherein another teammate is weak...  Last Season, in noting how Cassel was less accomplished than Brady at the long-ball, BB adapted, sending Moss with shorter crossing patterns, utilizing Welker more, playing more ball-control, game management Offense and D...

    Following: In the same sense Belichick recognizes, adapts and exploits his own Team's strengths and weaknesses, He so to, does the same for an opponent...Each and EVERY opponent.  With the awareness of what an opposing Team's Good or Bad at, BB adapts HIS Team, His Players, His Strategy...  BB then uses key pinpoint specific personell and schemes to exploit weaknesses, and counter opponent's strengths... I liken this all to that child's toy with all different holes and pieces, and those that endlessly used that plastic hammer to try to nail that square peg through an oval hole-There's no point...You might eventually get it through, but WHY do it the hard way?  I recall one year when the Pats played the Steelers, BB sensed that it was downright futile to attempt to run on the Steeler D, So instead of "forcing it", BB adapted, exploiting a less potent at the time, Steel secondary, and He used short slants with slot guys, multiple TE sets, screen passes, and a few unexpected draw plays on what should have been passing downs-AS a Running Game. 

    So in the end, I circle back to This Thread's Question of, "Is Tom Brady a 'System Quarterback'?"  Viewed through the clearer lense of His Coach: 

    Yes Brady is a 'System QB', In the sense that He himself plays a game schematically and is surrounded by Teammates personell-wise, THAT play to each guy's strengths, mask each guy's flaws, and perpetually 'cover' one another's positive and negative attributes in certain plays, and with certain players...

    BUT, In the same sense of viewing Brady through BB's visor, No, Brady Is NOT a 'System QB', since He plays a game and specifically here, under a Coach, Whom forever alters the personell and gameplanning per each and every opponent, and therefore-Brady, like other BB players, must forever recognize and play off of His and His teammates strengths and weaknesses in an unending game of gameplanning and player adaptation and innovation within the constant chess-game in order to exploit this all in one's opponents...

    Thoughts ANYONE?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!

    In Response to Re: Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Systems matter, Mr. Brady meet Mr. Cutler! : This whole "system QB" business is a crock. Its not about the system, its about the rest of the team other than the QB. Cassel does well in NE but not so much in KC, whose offense is very similar. What's that have to do with a system? His oline sukks, his defenses sukks, his WRs sukk and he has no running game. Think maybe these issues migththave to do with Cassel's perfomance? Likewise cutler. he did well in denver because he was surrounded by quality players. the bears sukk and his performance drops too. what's that got to do with a "system"? does favre's performance in minnesota make him a "system qb" for the vikings?"
    Posted by unclealfie[/QUOTE]

    Amen Alfie.. I hate the term system quarterback. It infers that the QB is playing good or bad strictly because of the coaching staff when the fact of the matter is that the system is a function of the QB and surrounding players functioning together.If you have a bad O-Line you will most certainly have a QB that Looks bad which I'm sure everyone knows. I have to work with people from around the country on a regular basis and all I heard from them the first 3 or 4 years Brady was in the league was that Brady was a "SYSTEM" quarterback. When I pointed out that with Bledsoe we were just a mediocre team they dismissed it. Drove me up a freakin' wall. By the way, at the time most of them were Michael Vick fans..Hows that treating them now.
     

Share