Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ
posted at 2/24/2014 11:25 PM EST
In response to mellymel3's comment:
In response to UWhuskiesAJM's comment:
I only have one thing to say to this post.
Who is actually being intolerant here? Those that refuse service because of their own beliefs or those that use legal force demanding that their free beliefs are more important.
By forcing someone to abandon their own personal beliefs tramples all over their rights as Americans. This country was formed on capitalism and a basic right to religious freedom. I personally believe that anybody should marry who they want. IfThe LGBT community needs to understand that while they should have every right to live their lives how they want to, all other Americans who may not share their beliefs also have those same rights. someone doesn't want to provide them a service for any reason it should be their right to do so. Bring that business somewhere else and someone will gladly step right in.
I was raised to believe that no one person or groups rights are more important than another's. Instead of buying a cake somewhere else or getting another photographer, people decided that their beliefs were more important.
So...I assume you think the same thing about African Americans or Hispanics...or maybe Catholics or Musilims, even if they are FBI agents? Tell me, what "beliefs" you find so objectionable? Do you realize that the same arguments about "separate, but equal" are the same ones the Supreme Court found UNCONSTITUTIONAL in the 1950's?
Do you honestly think every gay person wants to seduce or turn you or your kids into homosexuals? Just asking?
Should gays be jailed or executed...I mean, what would you do with Gays....Were you raised to think some classes of people were better than others? Just curious...
Do you own fire arms...are you as member of the NRA?
JUst out of curiosity, how old are you?
May I ask...are you a tea partier? or a republican? conservative democrat? Conservtive Christian...College educated?...Just curious?
I don't have a problem with anyone expressing an opinion....I just think when you express an opinion, you have to be ready to hear the opinions of others about your opinions...just because people disagree with your opinions, or those you agree with, should not make you feel threatened or claim others are being closed minded because they disagree with you...
Some people here never agree with one another...but some of those same people have strong moral feelings of their own that sometimes coalesce ...this is one of those times...
I have two children in their 20's and they and their friends of that generation have entirely different views of this issue and I say thank God for that...why inflict my generation's prejuduces on a new generation...I want them to be free of as many strangleholds on their minds as possible because I love them...I want them to be fully free to think their own thoughts and live their own lives...I have often struggled with my own acceptance with gays and the gay lifestyle....but I realize now that all gays deserve to be allowed to live a full and soverign life with every right of every other human being in this country....I have no right to judge what they do...restricting service is exactly the same as denying anyone full rights for any number of specious and stupid reasons...it's says far more about those doing the denying than those being denied...most importantly, it's protected by the Constitution of this country...
You said it!
The responses against tolerance are quite superficial. There is either no understanding of how predudice can - AND HAS - severly impacted lives. Instead there is only a blind obedience to the "right" to discriminate.
One day some of these folks will awake to the reality of how immoral and evil bigotry is and how it can destroy lives. Some will simply change gradually and deny their past positions. But some will not - they will go on either living it or accepting bigotry and prejudice in others as OK. Those folks will only see it if it is themselves who are profoundly hurt. I do not wish it on them but for them it will be perhaps the only way they will realize.
It is ironic that some of them dress it up with religion, some with "freedom". Just as it was done to justify slavery, just as it was done to justify Jim Crow (which is what is being proposed), just as it was done to Jews and not only in Germany. Just as it was done to the Armenians by the Turks. Just as it has been done to others by people cut from the same rather "tribal" cloth. In their world it is ever "us" against "them". There is no room for All Men under God or simply equality in the street or at the counter or anywhere else.
It is simple logic which an adolescent could understand but some have a blind spot... they just dont see it or just dont want to see it. It is of course not at all the same thing to say that a baker can choose the ingredients in their baking while the same baker cannot decide to refuse to sell their goods to a human being they are predisposed to not like... or to hate. Separate but "equal" is not equal at all. We have seen that as a fact. We have seen entire lives hurt, demeaned and even destroyed by that sort of twisted, self serving logic. "All men are created equal" is not something they truly believe and so the very principles of America are twisted just as they twist Christianity and the teachings of Jesus to justify themselves. The same happens in the more fundamentalist groups around the world. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi...
It is worth the discussion nonetheless. But dont expect objectivity. It will happen with some... but you cannot expect it from everyone. The maturing of morality remains a geologically slow process that takes a generation to make headway and generations to complete. But there will be some who finally, in the end, get it. I have seen some individuals who eventually see it.