OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to Sobchack's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    I think some here erroneously think gay marriage is universally accepted and the US is dragging their feet. It isn't.

    Yeah, Canada is the world's leading gay marriage haven. (All 33 million of them [the city of Tokyo has a larger population than Canada.]).

    Let's all follow their brilliant way. Because they matter so much.

    (Gay marriage allowed in dark blue areas.)

     

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/World_marriage-equality_laws.svg/800px-World_marriage-equality_laws.svg.png

     

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    What's interesting is what's completely grey in that chart: 3rd world nations;  Islamic republics and countries governed by Islamic law, totalitarian nations like China, Russia, and N. Korea; and for some odd reason, Japan.  

    I bet you dollars to donuts, Japan will start turning a shade of blue sooner than later.  

    Hurry up and get you rear end over to Uganda.  All is good there.  Gays are executed as capital criminals.  You can even start your own photography biz and never have to worry about same-sex couples as customers; they'll either be killed, in jail, or in hiding.

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    Hate to break it to you, but only the dark blue allow gay marriage. It is a small minority.

     

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    Hate to break it to you, but the places that are in blue are most of the world's free and prosperous nations.  The other places are, to a large degree, third world nations, many led by repressive regimes.  Maybe that's a hint about what real, meaningful freedom is about. 

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    Really? Canada has a paltry 33 million persons, and they are by far the true champions of gay marriage. Only parts of the US allow gay marriage. A few European countries allow it. A few SA countries allow it.

    BY FAR, most of the world's population doesn't allow it. India and China alone dwarf the number of persons in countries that allow gay marriage.

    It's hilarious that a few clowns cannot even accept a simple map and admit the truth of it, because you are such hos to your agenda.

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    Yep, most of the world's population lives under repressive regimes.  The point was that the blue areas (dark or light) happen to be in the countries that are the most free.  The correlation between political freedom and protection of gay rights happens to be quite strong as your map shows. But I guess you missed that . . .

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to dreighver's comment:
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    Hey Babe, out of curiosity, when did you come to the decision to be straight? Did you sit down and ponder the various options, and decide that a heterosexual lifestyle was your preference? 

    I think we know what the answer is here, but I fully expect you to avoid the question as it puts your asinine theory (that homosexuals have a choice over their sexuality) to rest. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Adolescence, just like everybody else.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    Whether homosexuality is a choice or not is irrelevant.  Religion is clearly a choice and we don't allow discrimination against people because of their religion.  

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Yep, most of the world's population lives under repressive regimes.  The point was that the blue areas (dark or light) happen to be in the countries that are the most free.  The correlation between political freedom and protection of gay rights happens to be quite strong as your map shows. But I guess you missed that . . .

    [/QUOTE]

    Nonsense. India has been a democracy for over half a century, and they alone have a billion people. Canada is no more free than Germany, Greece or Italy; all longtime democracies.

    Try being honest for a change.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric1. Show KyleCleric1's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Yep, most of the world's population lives under repressive regimes.  The point was that the blue areas (dark or light) happen to be in the countries that are the most free.  The correlation between political freedom and protection of gay rights happens to be quite strong as your map shows. But I guess you missed that . . .

    [/QUOTE]

    Nonsense. India has been a democracy for over half a century, and they alone have a billion people. Canada is no more free than Germany, Greece or Italy; all longtime democracies.

    Try being honest for a change.

    [/QUOTE]


    India has many issues right now with discrimination, untouchables/descendants of untouchables, muslims, and women

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to UWhuskiesAJM's comment:

    In response to mellymel3's comment:
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    In response to UWhuskiesAJM's comment:

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    I only have one thing to say to this post.

    Who is actually being intolerant here?  Those that refuse service because of their own beliefs or those that use legal force demanding that their free beliefs are more important.

    By forcing someone to abandon their own personal beliefs tramples all over their rights as Americans.  This country was formed on capitalism and a basic right to religious freedom.  I personally believe that anybody should marry who they want.   IfThe LGBT community needs to understand that while they should have every right to live their lives how they want to, all other Americans who may not share their beliefs also have those same rights.  someone doesn't want to provide them a service for any reason it should be their right to do so.  Bring that business somewhere else and someone will gladly step right in. 

    I was raised to believe that no one person or groups rights are more important than another's. Instead of buying a cake somewhere else or getting another photographer, people decided that their beliefs were more important.  

     


    So...I assume you think the same thing about African Americans or Hispanics...or maybe Catholics or Musilims, even if they are FBI agents? Tell me, what "beliefs" you find so objectionable? Do you realize that the same arguments about "separate, but equal" are the same ones the Supreme Court found UNCONSTITUTIONAL in the 1950's?

    Do you honestly think every gay person wants to seduce or turn you or your kids into homosexuals? Just asking?

     

    Should gays be jailed or executed...I mean, what would you do with Gays....Were you raised to think some classes of people were better than others?  Just curious...

    Do you own fire arms...are you as member of the NRA?

    JUst out of curiosity, how old are you?

    May I ask...are you a tea partier? or a republican? conservative democrat? Conservtive Christian...College educated?...Just curious?

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    Wow, race baiting much? I stand on my position that a business should be able to do business with whoever they choose.  What part of free economy do you not understand.  If a business doesn't want to maximize their profits it is completely up to them.  That goes both ways, if a gay couple doesn't want to service a Christian couple with a wedding cake it should be within their right to do so.  The same goes for color of skin and every other form of discrimination.  Do I agree with the decision, absolutely not.  It doesn't change the fact that businesses should be allowed to sell to whoever they want.  Free markets.

    Do you realize how you just came off?  Did you even read my post?  I specifically said that I believe that gays should have the right to marriage and live their lives how they want to.

     As for the personal stuff...

    Yes, I am college educated

    31 year old that doesn't own guns and doesn't play politics.  I think for myself whether my beliefs fall liberal or conservative on different topics they are my own.  I am also tired of media created controversies where talking heads tell the American people how to think.

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    You cannot allow businesses alone to decide who they will or will not serve...it's NOT allowed by the Constitution if the basis of that decision is one mof denial of service to an entire class of individuals....religious bias would be included there...even the Senators from AZ. have stated as much...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
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    In response to UWhuskiesAJM's comment:
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    In response to mellymel3's comment:
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    In response to UWhuskiesAJM's comment:

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    I only have one thing to say to this post.

    Who is actually being intolerant here?  Those that refuse service because of their own beliefs or those that use legal force demanding that their free beliefs are more important.

    By forcing someone to abandon their own personal beliefs tramples all over their rights as Americans.  This country was formed on capitalism and a basic right to religious freedom.  I personally believe that anybody should marry who they want.   IfThe LGBT community needs to understand that while they should have every right to live their lives how they want to, all other Americans who may not share their beliefs also have those same rights.  someone doesn't want to provide them a service for any reason it should be their right to do so.  Bring that business somewhere else and someone will gladly step right in. 

    I was raised to believe that no one person or groups rights are more important than another's. Instead of buying a cake somewhere else or getting another photographer, people decided that their beliefs were more important.  

     

    [/QUOTE]
    So...I assume you think the same thing about African Americans or Hispanics...or maybe Catholics or Musilims, even if they are FBI agents? Tell me, what "beliefs" you find so objectionable? Do you realize that the same arguments about "separate, but equal" are the same ones the Supreme Court found UNCONSTITUTIONAL in the 1950's?

    Do you honestly think every gay person wants to seduce or turn you or your kids into homosexuals? Just asking?

     

    Should gays be jailed or executed...I mean, what would you do with Gays....Were you raised to think some classes of people were better than others?  Just curious...

    Do you own fire arms...are you as member of the NRA?

    JUst out of curiosity, how old are you?

    May I ask...are you a tea partier? or a republican? conservative democrat? Conservtive Christian...College educated?...Just curious?

    [/QUOTE]

    Wow, race baiting much? I stand on my position that a business should be able to do business with whoever they choose.  What part of free economy do you not understand.  If a business doesn't want to maximize their profits it is completely up to them.  That goes both ways, if a gay couple doesn't want to service a Christian couple with a wedding cake it should be within their right to do so.  The same goes for color of skin and every other form of discrimination.  Do I agree with the decision, absolutely not.  It doesn't change the fact that businesses should be allowed to sell to whoever they want.  Free markets.

    Do you realize how you just came off?  Did you even read my post?  I specifically said that I believe that gays should have the right to marriage and live their lives how they want to.

     As for the personal stuff...

    Yes, I am college educated

    31 year old that doesn't own guns and doesn't play politics.  I think for myself whether my beliefs fall liberal or conservative on different topics they are my own.  I am also tired of media created controversies where talking heads tell the American people how to think.

    [/QUOTE]

    Wow. You are amazingly awake for a 31 year old. good on you. There is hope for this country.

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    good "on" you..w t f dcoes that mena?

    BWAHAHAHA!!!

    Tell the truth lifer...you just like being a b-i-g-o-t

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric1. Show KyleCleric1's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    FYI, Germany registers civil unions. Recent court cases have resulted in their law needing to be rewritten in order to guarantee more rights to these civil unions.

    Italy is getting closer to granting same-sex marriage.

    Greece has a cohabilitation law that was ruled by the courts to need to provide same benefits as married couples. New legislation is in the process of following that.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to UWhuskiesAJM's comment:
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    You said it!

    The responses against tolerance are quite superficial. There is either no understanding of how predudice can - AND HAS - severly impacted lives. Instead there is only a blind obedience to the "right" to discriminate.

    One day some of these folks will awake to the reality of how immoral and evil bigotry is and how it can destroy lives. Some will simply change gradually and deny their past positions. But some will not - they will go on either living it or accepting bigotry and prejudice in others as OK. Those folks will only see it if it is themselves who are profoundly hurt. I do not wish it on them but for them it will be perhaps the only way they will realize.

    It is ironic that some of them dress it up with religion, some with "freedom". Just as it was done to justify slavery, just as it was done to justify Jim Crow (which is what is being proposed), just as it was done to Jews and not only in Germany. Just as it was done to the Armenians by the Turks. Just as it has been done to others by people cut from the same rather "tribal" cloth. In their world it is ever "us" against "them". There is no room for All Men under God or simply equality in the street or at the counter or anywhere else.

     

    It is simple logic which an adolescent could understand but some have a blind spot... they just dont see it or just dont want to see it. It is of course not at all the same thing to say that a baker can choose the ingredients in their baking while the same baker cannot decide to refuse to sell their goods to a human being they are predisposed to not like... or to hate. Separate but "equal" is not equal at all. We have seen that as a fact. We have seen entire lives hurt, demeaned and even destroyed by that sort of twisted, self serving logic. "All men are created equal" is not something they truly believe and so the very principles of America are twisted just as they twist Christianity and the teachings of Jesus to justify themselves. The same happens in the more fundamentalist groups around the world. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindi...

    It is worth the discussion nonetheless. But dont expect objectivity. It will happen with some... but you cannot expect it from everyone. The maturing of morality remains a geologically slow process that takes a generation to make headway and generations to complete. But there will be some who finally, in the end, get it. I have seen some individuals who eventually see it.

     

     

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    So, in short to sum up your high horse rant about morality.  Prejudice/discrimination is bad which I think most rational people feel.  What you fail to address is the basic argument here.  Do business owners have the right to sell their services to whomever they choose?

    Our economy is built upon the freedom of the marketplace and basic capitalism principles.  Our country was also built upon the freedom of religion.  To openly force a business owner to support something that is fundamentally against their beliefs is far more intolerant then anything else.

     

    What many of the MSNBC sheeple here going on and on about equality of men need to step back and realize what that means.  Equality does not only mean that our populace should be blind to color, race, sex, religion.  It also means we have the right to practice our beliefs, religion, freely.  By placing one groups beliefs above another based on your own self inflated opinions is wrong.  Businesses should have the right to sell their services to whomever they choose.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Ohhhh...you watch Fox Noise, right?

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    In response to NEGAME2's comment:
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    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:
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    SB is in Glendale next year, this would be only reason for me to go!  Lol

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    omg didn't realize that--bet Goodall is on the phone right now threatening to have location moved unless the governor veto's.

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    Are you serious?

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    yes see above post!

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    I doubt they'd actually move the Super Bowl at this late date, but I'm sure they are putting pressure on the governor to veto the bill because they don't want the controversy.  Business groups in general are against the bill, si its veto is increasingly likely.

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    They already lost one SB I believe because of their refusal to adpot the martin Luther King holiday.....BUT THIS IS SOOOOOOO DIFFERENT...BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Bigotry lives in AZ!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Yep, most of the world's population lives under repressive regimes.  The point was that the blue areas (dark or light) happen to be in the countries that are the most free.  The correlation between political freedom and protection of gay rights happens to be quite strong as your map shows. But I guess you missed that . . .



    Nonsense. India has been a democracy for over half a century, and they alone have a billion people. Canada is no more free than Germany, Greece or Italy; all longtime democracies.

    Try being honest for a change.

    [/QUOTE]

    Try opening the closed mind for once.  Here's a version of your map.  Red countries are the ones that punish homosexuality, blue recognize same-sex marriages or partnerships.  Pretty clear how strong the correlation is between free countries and tolerance for homosexuality and unfree countries and intolerance. 

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:
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    Another hypothetical. A number of years ago a (straight) woman I worked with was getting married. She brought in the pictures of her bachellorette party, which included a cake in the shape of a large African American phallis. Should a baker (either kosher or not) be forced to bake a cake in this manner if it goes against their moral beliefs just because someone requests it?

    [/QUOTE]

    Hmmm . . . as long as the phallus was circumcised, I think it's kosher . . .  Wink

    [/QUOTE]


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Yep, most of the world's population lives under repressive regimes.  The point was that the blue areas (dark or light) happen to be in the countries that are the most free.  The correlation between political freedom and protection of gay rights happens to be quite strong as your map shows. But I guess you missed that . . .

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nonsense. India has been a democracy for over half a century, and they alone have a billion people. Canada is no more free than Germany, Greece or Italy; all longtime democracies.

     

    Try being honest for a change.

    [/QUOTE]

    Try opening the closed mind for once.  Here's a version of your map.  Red countries are the ones that punish homosexuality, blue recognize same-sex marriages or partnerships.  Pretty clear how strong the correlation is between free countries and tolerance for homosexuality and unfree countries and intolerance. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Try being honest for once, in spite of your hoishness.

    Only the dark blue allow same-sex marriage; just as I honestly said.

    Same-sex marriage approval exists in a small minority of the world.

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ


    Well..word is crag face Brewer is going to veto the bill tonight.....

    I guess that means she anti-Christian...

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Yep, most of the world's population lives under repressive regimes.  The point was that the blue areas (dark or light) happen to be in the countries that are the most free.  The correlation between political freedom and protection of gay rights happens to be quite strong as your map shows. But I guess you missed that . . .

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nonsense. India has been a democracy for over half a century, and they alone have a billion people. Canada is no more free than Germany, Greece or Italy; all longtime democracies.

     

    Try being honest for a change.

    [/QUOTE]

    Try opening the closed mind for once.  Here's a version of your map.  Red countries are the ones that punish homosexuality, blue recognize same-sex marriages or partnerships.  Pretty clear how strong the correlation is between free countries and tolerance for homosexuality and unfree countries and intolerance. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Try being honest for once, in spite of your hoishness.

    Only the dark blue allow same-sex marriage; just as I honestly said.

    Same-sex marriage approval exists in a small minority of the world.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said you didn't say this.  I just observed that the blue areas of the map (those with tolerance for either gay marriage or gay civil unions) correlated well with the free areas of the world. Also the countries that punish homosexuality harshly (those in red) tend to be among least free.  Think about that a bit . . . . seems like this freedom you say you value so much tends to go hand in hand with tolerance for homosexuality, no?

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Yep, most of the world's population lives under repressive regimes.  The point was that the blue areas (dark or light) happen to be in the countries that are the most free.  The correlation between political freedom and protection of gay rights happens to be quite strong as your map shows. But I guess you missed that . . .

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nonsense. India has been a democracy for over half a century, and they alone have a billion people. Canada is no more free than Germany, Greece or Italy; all longtime democracies.

     

    Try being honest for a change.

    [/QUOTE]

    Try opening the closed mind for once.  Here's a version of your map.  Red countries are the ones that punish homosexuality, blue recognize same-sex marriages or partnerships.  Pretty clear how strong the correlation is between free countries and tolerance for homosexuality and unfree countries and intolerance. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Try being honest for once, in spite of your hoishness.

    Only the dark blue allow same-sex marriage; just as I honestly said.

    Same-sex marriage approval exists in a small minority of the world.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said you didn't say this.  I just observed that the blue areas of the map (those with tolerance for either gay marriage or gay civil unions) correlated well with the free areas of the world. Also the countries that punish homosexuality harshly (those in red) tend to be among least free.  Think about that a bit . . . . seems like this freedom you say you value so much tends to go hand in hand with tolerance for homosexuality, no?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I've tried this before...don't make him think...ot only gives him a migrane

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Whether homosexuality is a choice or not is irrelevant.  Religion is clearly a choice and we don't allow discrimination against people because of their religion.  

    [/QUOTE]


    True, but in both cases above; What to you suppose what happens to a Christian or Jew living in a Muslim Country, ordering a cake with a Cross/Star of David? Forget about the Idea that both could be Homosexual, - that only compounds the situation.

    Do you think there would be a SB 1062 Bill put up by any couragious Muslim Cleric or Politician?  Or do you think that if so the Christian/Jew would be arrested without trial, and the cleric put to shame? Or do you think that the Christian/Jew should have known better than to upset a Muslim Baker? Do they get their cake and eat it too?

    How about if that happened in Canada? A muslim baker, because of his belief refuses?

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to KyleCleric1's comment:
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    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:
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    What if the vendor has a steady stream of repeat customers who all belong to the same church and who all hold the same beliefs? Is it OK that their reputation could be (rightly or wrongly) damaged to their steady customers by being forced to vend to a customer who does not live by the same beliefs? What if their business suffered considerably due to this? 

    Another hypothetical. A number of years ago a (straight) woman I worked with was getting married. She brought in the pictures of her bachellorette party, which included a cake in the shape of a large African American phallis. Should a baker (either kosher or not) be forced to bake a cake in this manner if it goes against their moral beliefs just because someone requests it?

    [/QUOTE]


    As to the first paragraph, you can't refuse service because of who that person is. I don't see how that serving someone who you should serve will hurt your business.

    As for the second paragraph, it's a question of taste, not a question of religion. I'm pretty sure that you don't need to bake **** cakes if you don't bake **** cakes.

    [/QUOTE]

    "I don't see how that serving someone who you should serve will hurt your business."


    You don't think this happens daily all across America? Every city in this country has their smaller sections, dominated either by a specific ethnic group, or a predominantly religious faction. Chinatown, the Italian North End, the Irish in Southie and Charlestown, Vietnamese, Greek, Russian, Japanese, Mexican, African American etc. Or Catholic, Russian Orthodox, Prodestant, Jewish, Baptist etc. If you don't think there are unwritten laws in each of these neighborhoods where serving the wrong 'type' of person will affect your business, you are naive. If you have built a successful business serving almost exclusively conservative, bible thumping Christians (because that is the main population that lives there), and you are suddenly forced to alter your business to serve a new clientele whose lifestyle is very different than your core customers (and a smaller percentage of the population), there is a very good chance you will lose a percentage of your customer base.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    By the way, there was an episode of Cheers that dealt with this way back in the early 80s. A guy Sam played baseball with came out and Sam stood by him. But all they guys at Cheers thought for sure the bar would turn into a gay bar because of this. 

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0539884/

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
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    Yep, most of the world's population lives under repressive regimes.  The point was that the blue areas (dark or light) happen to be in the countries that are the most free.  The correlation between political freedom and protection of gay rights happens to be quite strong as your map shows. But I guess you missed that . . .

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nonsense. India has been a democracy for over half a century, and they alone have a billion people. Canada is no more free than Germany, Greece or Italy; all longtime democracies.

     

    Try being honest for a change.

    [/QUOTE]

    Try opening the closed mind for once.  Here's a version of your map.  Red countries are the ones that punish homosexuality, blue recognize same-sex marriages or partnerships.  Pretty clear how strong the correlation is between free countries and tolerance for homosexuality and unfree countries and intolerance. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Try being honest for once, in spite of your hoishness.

    Only the dark blue allow same-sex marriage; just as I honestly said.

    Same-sex marriage approval exists in a small minority of the world.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said you didn't say this.  I just observed that the blue areas of the map (those with tolerance for either gay marriage or gay civil unions) correlated well with the free areas of the world. Also the countries that punish homosexuality harshly (those in red) tend to be among least free.  Think about that a bit . . . . seems like this freedom you say you value so much tends to go hand in hand with tolerance for homosexuality, no?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    What's your point? I've never called for punishing homosexuals. I've never called for discriminating against them. I simply say a person's religious freedom should be respected.

    Yeah, of course some sort of accommodation is made in the more free venues for homosexuals than in the more repressive. Because everything is more repressed in the more repressive nations.

    That isn't a justification for gay marriage as you would like it to be.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric1. Show KyleCleric1's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to KyleCleric1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What if the vendor has a steady stream of repeat customers who all belong to the same church and who all hold the same beliefs? Is it OK that their reputation could be (rightly or wrongly) damaged to their steady customers by being forced to vend to a customer who does not live by the same beliefs? What if their business suffered considerably due to this? 

    Another hypothetical. A number of years ago a (straight) woman I worked with was getting married. She brought in the pictures of her bachellorette party, which included a cake in the shape of a large African American phallis. Should a baker (either kosher or not) be forced to bake a cake in this manner if it goes against their moral beliefs just because someone requests it?

    [/QUOTE]


    As to the first paragraph, you can't refuse service because of who that person is. I don't see how that serving someone who you should serve will hurt your business.

    As for the second paragraph, it's a question of taste, not a question of religion. I'm pretty sure that you don't need to bake **** cakes if you don't bake **** cakes.

    [/QUOTE]

    "I don't see how that serving someone who you should serve will hurt your business."


    You don't think this happens daily all across America? Every city in this country has their smaller sections, dominated either by a specific ethnic group, or a predominantly religious faction. Chinatown, the Italian North End, the Irish in Southie and Charlestown, Vietnamese, Greek, Russian, Japanese, Mexican, African American etc. Or Catholic, Russian Orthodox, Prodestant, Jewish, Baptist etc. If you don't think there are unwritten laws in each of these neighborhoods where serving the wrong 'type' of person will affect your business, you are naive. If you have built a successful business serving almost exclusively conservative, bible thumping Christians (because that is the main population that lives there), and you are suddenly forced to alter your business to serve a new clientele whose lifestyle is very different than your core customers (and a smaller percentage of the population), there is a very good chance you will lose a percentage of your customer base.

    [/QUOTE]

    None of that would be an excuse for federally allowed discrimination though

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric1. Show KyleCleric1's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether homosexuality is a choice or not is irrelevant.  Religion is clearly a choice and we don't allow discrimination against people because of their religion.  

    [/QUOTE]


    True, but in both cases above; What to you suppose what happens to a Christian or Jew living in a Muslim Country, ordering a cake with a Cross/Star of David? Forget about the Idea that both could be Homosexual, - that only compounds the situation.

    Do you think there would be a SB 1062 Bill put up by any couragious Muslim Cleric or Politician?  Or do you think that if so the Christian/Jew would be arrested without trial, and the cleric put to shame? Or do you think that the Christian/Jew should have known better than to upset a Muslim Baker? Do they get their cake and eat it too?

    How about if that happened in Canada? A muslim baker, because of his belief refuses?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    First, I'm not sure that any of this would be the case. Secondly, I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion of in the US.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: OT: Nuremberg Laws in AZ

    In response to KyleCleric1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to palookaski's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Whether homosexuality is a choice or not is irrelevant.  Religion is clearly a choice and we don't allow discrimination against people because of their religion.  

    [/QUOTE]


    True, but in both cases above; What to you suppose what happens to a Christian or Jew living in a Muslim Country, ordering a cake with a Cross/Star of David? Forget about the Idea that both could be Homosexual, - that only compounds the situation.

    Do you think there would be a SB 1062 Bill put up by any couragious Muslim Cleric or Politician?  Or do you think that if so the Christian/Jew would be arrested without trial, and the cleric put to shame? Or do you think that the Christian/Jew should have known better than to upset a Muslim Baker? Do they get their cake and eat it too?

    How about if that happened in Canada? A muslim baker, because of his belief refuses?

    [/QUOTE]

    First, I'm not sure that any of this would be the case. Secondly, I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion of in the US.

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, awright, IC! Now forget what I said about a Muslim Country but just think about that happening where you live? What then? Would you then attack Muslims if the Muslim baker refused service, like many here attack Christians?  I assume that you know how the Quran describes homosexuals as evil? These people here will not attack the Quran, they know better but they also know that Christ is easy pickens and always has been. Very brave they are! Their heads would be missing in a Muslim Country for defiling the Quran.

    After all, people are talking about a map that was posted? Then changed to suit themselves.

    Other than that, you have a good night and GOD bless you, HE loves you!

     

     

     

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