OT? WTGF?!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from df2. Show df2's posts

    OT? WTGF?!!!

    Jordan slides to 17 and what does Bill do? Picks up a tackle that is really a tight end. Brilliant.

    I am so sick of playing mediocre defense. Why wont they do something about it? When they they were actually a contender, that's how they did it- with lock down defense. Now every QB in the league is completely comfortable against us. And if our offense is off or gets shut down, we lose.

    We are becoming the Chargers. Fine regular season team. But not built for the playoffs. In the meantime, Jordan will go somewhere, get 8 sacks for somebody and our team will get lit on a regular basis because no one can get within 6 yards of the other team's QB. Great!

    I am so disgusted right now
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from diablo69. Show diablo69's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    In Response to OT? WTGF?!!!:
    [QUOTE]Jordan slides to 17 and what does Bill do? Picks up a tackle that is really a tight end. Brilliant. I am so sick of playing mediocre defense. Why wont they do something about it? When they they were actually a contender, that's how they did it- with lock down defense. Now every QB in the league is completely comfortable against us. And if our offense is off or gets shut down, we lose. We are becoming the Chargers. Fine regular season team. But not built for the playoffs. In the meantime, Jordan will go somewhere, get 8 sacks for somebody and our team will get lit on a regular basis because no one can get within 6 yards of the other team's QB. Great! I am so disgusted right now
    Posted by df2[/QUOTE]
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    bet you said the same about McCourty

    Jordan may slide to us at 28 too. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from diablo69. Show diablo69's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    In Response to OT? WTGF?!!!:
    trust in Bill...we still have another 1st and the rest of them in 2nd/3rd round. Hopefully that's where we get our defensive improvements. I have to agree though, picking an OL in 1st round is not an exciting pick, but Mankins ended up ok. trust in bill, trust in bill, keep repeating...   
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    i totally agree. we need front 7 help. huge disappointment! 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    We just traded the 28th pick. -_-...


    HE DOESN'T LEARN! 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from savagemanu92. Show savagemanu92's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    wow im pissed bill u suck
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from df2. Show df2's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    I don't think Bobby Grier could have screwed up this first round any better.

    Bill just gave away Ingram. The same way he gave away Clay Matthews. This is just crazy. So far, we have a project OT and no pass rush or RB. But we are throwing away first rounders like we just went 18-0 and won the last three Superbowls.

    I know I'm going to get killed for this. But the Pats have descended into mediocrity and I'm starting to wonder if Bill is capable of lifting us out it. He can't keep stockpiling 2nd 3rd and 4th rounders because he thinks he can coach up mediocre players.

    This team desperately needs some talent at a few positions. And Bill seems to be oblivious. I don't know if it's arrogance or what. But this is getting old. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from savagemanu92. Show savagemanu92's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    u sed it df2 . We need pass rush. + we dont have good position in the 2nd round other than the first pick..whoopdy doo a first round next year well probly trade that too!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from diablo69. Show diablo69's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    maybe we're going to pick up Vernon Gholston to start the "revampation" of our defense....jets just selected that db Wilkerson from temple, he's pretty good.
    Need a good day tomorrow.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from EddieinOregon. Show EddieinOregon's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    A first round LOADED with just what the Pats needed - pass rush - and two picks to make - so how come there's no help? I think Bill has read his press clippings and thinks he has to outsmart someone every time. JEEZ. Pick the OLB or DE that everyone knows can play and be done with it. 

    By the way this is becoming a great defensive backfield. But they can't do it without a little pressure. Tricks and disguises can help, but aren't a substitute for talent.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    In Response to OT? WTGF?!!!:
    [QUOTE]Jordan slides to 17 and what does Bill do? Picks up a tackle that is really a tight end. Brilliant. I am so sick of playing mediocre defense. Why wont they do something about it? When they they were actually a contender, that's how they did it- with lock down defense. Now every QB in the league is completely comfortable against us. And if our offense is off or gets shut down, we lose. We are becoming the Chargers. Fine regular season team. But not built for the playoffs. In the meantime, Jordan will go somewhere, get 8 sacks for somebody and our team will get lit on a regular basis because no one can get within 6 yards of the other team's QB. Great! I am so disgusted right now
    Posted by df2[/QUOTE]

         I understand your frustration. We all are tired on the "bend but don't break D", that has broken in the first round of the play-offs for the past two years. BUT...remember...protecting Tom Brady is job one. Matt Light is a 33 year old UFA. He's clearly not the player he once was. Solder is not a sexy pick...but he was the best LT prospect available. He's massive...a 6'8", 315 athlete...with 8% body fat! That means that he'll be able to add some size, without losing his quickness. This is the guy that both the New York Giants and the Colts really wanted. If he stays healthy, Donte Scarnecchia will make a pro-bowl LT out of him.

         Tomorrow, the Pats will likely trade their 33rd overall pick to, say, the Redskins, for the 'Skins 41st overall pick, and their second round pick next season. Washington will draft a QB, either Ryan Mallett, Andy Dalton, or Colin Kaepernick. Then, the Patriots, holding the 41st, 56th, 60th, 74th, and 92nd selections, will have a field day. BB may also trade his 74th overall pick for another 2012 second rounder. Then...in 2012, the Pats would once again be sitting pretty, with two #1s, and three second rounders.

         Superb job once again by BB. There are still a ton of very good players available. Wait til tomorrow before casting judgment.   
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from artielang. Show artielang's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    great so we'll have a pro bowl left tackle by the time brady retires. meanwhile TBC will still be our top pass rusher. i can imagine all the oline coaches having nightmares...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    Jesus
    there are 6 rounds left.
    we have like 5 picks tomm, we can work into any spot get anybody.
    So u r mad at Bill because he doesnt picks the guy u had on ur mock board??? Or the best player annointed by the media (same guys who r out of jobs themselves)
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gulo. Show Gulo's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    i like the solder pick.  we have to protect brady.  
    as far as cam jordan, i really liked him, but i have to think that with warren and wright coming back from injury and with Deaderick and Myron Pryor making good progress i think that Cam jordan wouldnt have been an upgrade at all.

    the Wilfork, Wright, Warren D Line isnt our problem, we just went 14-2 with a ridiculously young team, df2 calling this team mediocre is just whack...
    this year has all sorts of uncertainties... who knows if rookie growth will be hindered with all this cba stuff.  i like the move to get more picks in next years draft, plus, that looks to be a stronger draft.  to be honest, i see a good chance that the saints dont make the playoffs... atlanta falcons and the tb bucs in the division, plus one of the other wildcards will surely go to either GB or Chicago... very possible, New Orleans is overrated and they play a tough schedule
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    In Response to Re: OT? WTGF?!!!:
    [QUOTE]Jesus there are 6 rounds left. we have like 5 picks tomm, we can work into any spot get anybody. So u r mad at Bill because he doesnt picks the guy u had on ur mock board??? Or the best player annointed by the media (same guys who r out of jobs themselves)
    Posted by akius[/QUOTE]

    Ah akius, sorry to break it to...But the people complaining about this trade don't go to the trouble to research enough to make their own mocks...(team fit & actual need based on available talent at a given spot...? Laughable)  No, They go to ESPN.com, see who's in the Top 50 1 week before draft day...  Higher=This is better.  Planning for subsequent years, Making good trades wherein you can STILL get your prospective draft target prospect, AND come away setting yourself up with extra picks...?  Uh-uh...Espn.com=Top 50...Higher is better.  Shhh akius, should you tell them or should I tell The Immediate Satisfaction & Self-serving Pleasure groupees, exactly WHY their significant other goes to bed crying every night?  You tell'em...I just don't have the patience...  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from df2. Show df2's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    In Response to Re: OT? WTGF?!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT? WTGF?!!! : Ah akius, sorry to break it to...But the people complaining about this trade don't go to the trouble to research enough to make their own mocks...(team fit & actual need based on available talent at a given spot...? Laughable)  No, They go to ESPN.com, see who's in the Top 50 1 week before draft day...  Higher=This is better.  Planning for subsequent years, Making good trades wherein you can STILL get your prospective draft target prospect, AND come away setting yourself up with extra picks...?  Uh-uh...Espn.com=Top 50...Higher is better.  Shhh akius, should you tell them or should I tell The Immediate Satisfaction & Self-serving Pleasure groupees, exactly WHY their significant other goes to bed crying every night?  You tell'em...I just don't have the patience...  
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    Seriously? I expect better from you. I completely defer to you as far as the draft (or college football in general) is concerned. But let's be real here. Bill Belichick's trade down philosophy has delivered this team to mediocrity. Years of weak drafting has turned this team into a deeply flawed team that cannot win playoff games. Last time I checked, that was the whole point of playing. I don't care that they went 14-2 last year. Or won 11 games with Brady injured. Etc, etc. They haven't won anything in 7 years and counting.

    And no I didn't do a mock draft. No disrespect to anybody that did. But I simply don't have the time or interest. And the idea that all this wheeling and dealing is some sort of display of genius is reassuring when Bill throws away picks. And it's fun for some people who get to talk down to people for disagreeing with thier opinion. But it's just not fact. I did do some research after reading your post. My opinon seems like commomn sense- you have a much better chance of getting an impact player in the first round or early second. But I wanted to see the numbers. You know, just in case. I checked last year's AFC Pro Bowl roster.

    Here is what I found:

    Offense- 21 players total
    11 first rounders
    5 second rounders
    1 third rounder and 2 fouth rounders
    rounding out the offense were 2 UDFA- which is basically needle in a haystack type luck

    Defense 18 players total
    12 first rounders
    2 second rounders
    1 fourth rounder and 1 sixth rounder
    And one UDFA

    The numbers support my obvious opinion that you have a much better chance of getting a good player in the first 2 rounds than in later rounds. So, yes, higher does equal better- generally speaking.

    Most of the Pro Bowlers were first round picks. On offense around 80% of players were picked in the first two round. On defense (the Pats biggest need) the numbers rose to around 90% And  one of the "4th rounders" was a FB. A lot of teams don't even use a FB.

    After I got done with that, I looked at the Pats' drats since 2005. The year after they last won anything

    First and second round:

    Welker- Not technically a pick. But they traded a second for him 

    Mcourty- Stud.

    Mayo- Really good player.

    Merriweather- 2 All Pro selections.

    Maroney- will probably be out of the league soon. But at least they took a shot with this pick.

    Mankins- Good player while he was here. Will probably end up trading him for a pick that they will throw away.

    Gronkowski- Looks like the real deal.

    Spikes- Draft deay steal.

    Chung- Underrated. Solid player

    Volmer- First round talent in the second round. Great pick.

    Then you have Brace, Butler, Wheatley and Chad Jackson. Not exactly world beaters.

    3RD ROUND

    Price- The jury is still out.

    Brandon Tate- Not a good route runner and terrible hands. Hard to imagine him ever developing into anything better than a serviceable number 3 WR

    Dave Thomas- Gone

    Shaun Crable- Good player for a third round pick. But not exactly seting the league on fire.

    Rounding out this round are Ellis (I may have cost the Pats the 07 Superbowl)Hobbs and Tyrone McKenzi

    Now here's where it gets depresing. Since 2005 the Pats have drafted 35 players in rounds 4-7. I found six that any normal Pats fan could name:

    Aarron Hernandez- Great find

    Matthew Slater and Julian Edleman- Nice players. But I don't think either will ever be collecting a Pro Bowl bonus

    Matt Cassell- Gone. Traded for Patrick Chung. Solid player but not really a playmaker. Still, a decent trade if you ignore the fact that we threw in our best pash rusher for no reason. A position we were already weak at.
     
    The final two are kickers so the 4th and fifth rounds seem abouth right for Gostowski and Mesko.

    Out of 35 players in rounds 4-7 we drafted five players (not counting Moss) that contributed at all. And two are kickers. But I'm assuming that's about league average. Which proves my point. Most of the good players are gone by midway through round two.

    This team needs a couple of playmakers (at least) if they are going to rise out of mediocrity. We have enough solid players. Don't get me wrong, you need solid players to win. But right now we need some playmakers. And you aren't going to get them by sniffing around the later rounds. You aren't going to get them by constantly trading down and rolling over picks. And God knows Bill isn't going to go sign them in the free agent market. 

    You can support the stockpiling approach. And that's cool. That's your OPINION. There is no need to insinuate that people are stupid simply for disagreeing with you. This isn't about instant gratification. Not at all. All I'm asking is that we take a shot at filling our needs and going after a championship. The only thing this draft approach is doing is providing insurance so that in the future we probably wont have to suffer through one of those 2-14 seasons.

    You can say whatever you want, but the results speak for themselves. This team hasn't won in seven years. And unless there are some major upgrades (which aren't likely to be found in round 2 or free agency) I don't see how 2011 will be any different. This pass rush situation is no different than the WR situation that cost us a Superbowl in 2006.

    This team is stuck in mediocrity. And most of you don't seem to mind. I don't get how anybody can support Bill's allergies to first/second round talent. If you, or anybody else, would care to educate me, I'd be more than happy to listen. Because I just don't get it.

    What do want to bet he thows number 33 away today?   
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    Relax.people....OT was a major need...and without trading up..C Jordan (would have been my choice) was the only one missed on by BB....  The proof will be rounds 2 and 3 as to whether the bend dont break defense will improve...

    Going to be a good day.....enjoy it.....

    Wish i could save the comments when 2012 is here and see if the same people would feel the same..
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from USMCM1A1. Show USMCM1A1's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    In Response to Re: OT? WTGF?!!!:
    [QUOTE]  You can say whatever you want, but the results speak for themselves. This team hasn't won in seven years.
    Posted by df2[/QUOTE]
    That's what's so inuriatingly stupid about Pats fans.  Think about it, your team was 14-2 and had the best record in football.  Hasn't won in 7 years???  What is wrong with your brain?

    Since 2005 the Patriots have won the division 5 times out of 6, and the one time they didn't was when Brady was lost for the season in the first game.  They've won a Conference chapmionship, and posted the only 16-0 record. Ever.

    So they haven't won the Super Bowl every single year.  Guess what, sunshine?  It's really hard to win the Superbowl.  Only one team does each year--everyone else goes home as a loser.  You can't guarantee winning it all.  The only thing you can do is build a great football team year in and year out and compete.  By being smart, like BB, we get into the playoffs every year.  By being stupid, like you, you get to be the Carolina Panthers, always drafting now, and each time getting deeper and deeper into the hole.

    It's that top line where I quoted you, that points to you as a complete, utter poltroon.  Your team goes to the playoffs every freaking year, and you have the gall to say soemthing that dumb.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dna53. Show dna53's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    OL was a priority and there was going to be a run on OL...Carpeneter was rated in th 2 -3rd rounds......They had to grab him...he's really good..
    . 60maxpowero.com had hm a a fast riser and 2nd in thier war room 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    OT was one of our biggest needs, and good OTs usually disappear after the first round, so there's nothing surprising about this pick to me.  I thought they should use the first pick on an OT, so I'm happy with them doing so.  I don't know enough about Solder to judge whether he's the right guy over some of the other well-known tackles who were still available, but I think the Pats are pretty good at evaluating O-line talent, so I'm not going to question their choice.  

    Yes we still need help at OLB and DE, but I suspect that's addressed next (though I wouldn't be terribly surprised if BB picked a CB with the 33rd pick--assuming he keeps the pick).  RB, interior O-line, and WR are other possibilities, but I suspect BB picks these in lower rounds.


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from GadisRKO. Show GadisRKO's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    you people complaining and saying Bill doesn't learn and "sucks" are a bunch of brainless 6 year olds or just don't understand football.

    Oline was a need, we took Oline.
    Bill took pick 28, and turned into a first round pick and a second round pick.

    Third, Brooks Reed, Jabaal Sheard, Justin Houston, three OLB's that had a chance of going in the first ARE STILL AVAILABLE!
    Not to mention guys like Mikel Leshoure( just as good as Ingram IMO) Leanord Hankerson, Akeem Ayers, etc. are still available. 3 picks in the second, 2 in the third. We are going to address the pass rush with these picks people!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    its typical whiney posers... 14-2 isnt good enough 4 SB appearances and 3 championships isnt good enough though NOONE else has done that(and thats with all these great teams getting all these great first rounders)

    NO ONE

    you cant teach stupid ....pure and simple... 

    gonna get something nice for 33... so go whine some more
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patriots1970. Show Patriots1970's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    In Response to Re: OT? WTGF?!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: OT? WTGF?!!! : Seriously? I expect better from you. I completely defer to you as far as the draft (or college football in general) is concerned. But let's be real here. Bill Belichick's trade down philosophy has delivered this team to mediocrity. Years of weak drafting has turned this team into a deeply flawed team that cannot win playoff games. Last time I checked, that was the whole point of playing. I don't care that they went 14-2 last year. Or won 11 games with Brady injured. Etc, etc. They haven't won anything in 7 years and counting. And no I didn't do a mock draft. No disrespect to anybody that did. But I simply don't have the time or interest. And the idea that all this wheeling and dealing is some sort of display of genius is reassuring when Bill throws away picks. And it's fun for some people who get to talk down to people for disagreeing with thier opinion. But it's just not fact. I did do some research after reading your post. My opinon seems like commomn sense- you have a much better chance of getting an impact player in the first round or early second. But I wanted to see the numbers. You know, just in case. I checked last year's AFC Pro Bowl roster. Here is what I found: Offense- 21 players total 11 first rounders 5 second rounders 1 third rounder and 2 fouth rounders rounding out the offense were 2 UDFA- which is basically needle in a haystack type luck Defense 18 players total 12 first rounders 2 second rounders 1 fourth rounder and 1 sixth rounder And one UDFA The numbers support my obvious opinion that you have a much better chance of getting a good player in the first 2 rounds than in later rounds. So, yes, higher does equal better- generally speaking. Most of the Pro Bowlers were first round picks. On offense around 80% of players were picked in the first two round. On defense (the Pats biggest need) the numbers rose to around 90% And  one of the "4th rounders" was a FB. A lot of teams don't even use a FB. After I got done with that, I looked at the Pats' drats since 2005. The year after they last won anything First and second round: Welker- Not technically a pick. But they traded a second for him  Mcourty- Stud. Mayo- Really good player. Merriweather- 2 All Pro selections. Maroney- will probably be out of the league soon. But at least they took a shot with this pick. Mankins- Good player while he was here. Will probably end up trading him for a pick that they will throw away. Gronkowski- Looks like the real deal. Spikes- Draft deay steal. Chung- Underrated. Solid player Volmer- First round talent in the second round. Great pick. Then you have Brace, Butler, Wheatley and Chad Jackson. Not exactly world beaters. 3RD ROUND Price- The jury is still out. Brandon Tate- Not a good route runner and terrible hands. Hard to imagine him ever developing into anything better than a serviceable number 3 WR Dave Thomas- Gone Shaun Crable- Good player for a third round pick. But not exactly seting the league on fire. Rounding out this round are Ellis (I may have cost the Pats the 07 Superbowl)Hobbs and Tyrone McKenzi Now here's where it gets depresing. Since 2005 the Pats have drafted 35 players in rounds 4-7. I found six that any normal Pats fan could name: Aarron Hernandez- Great find Matthew Slater and Julian Edleman- Nice players. But I don't think either will ever be collecting a Pro Bowl bonus Matt Cassell- Gone. Traded for Patrick Chung. Solid player but not really a playmaker. Still, a decent trade if you ignore the fact that we threw in our best pash rusher for no reason. A position we were already weak at.   The final two are kickers so the 4th and fifth rounds seem abouth right for Gostowski and Mesko. Out of 35 players in rounds 4-7 we drafted five players (not counting Moss) that contributed at all. And two are kickers. But I'm assuming that's about league average. Which proves my point. Most of the good players are gone by midway through round two. This team needs a couple of playmakers (at least) if they are going to rise out of mediocrity. We have enough solid players. Don't get me wrong, you need solid players to win. But right now we need some playmakers. And you aren't going to get them by sniffing around the later rounds. You aren't going to get them by constantly trading down and rolling over picks. And God knows Bill isn't going to go sign them in the free agent market.  You can support the stockpiling approach. And that's cool. That's your OPINION. There is no need to insinuate that people are stupid simply for disagreeing with you. This isn't about instant gratification. Not at all. All I'm asking is that we take a shot at filling our needs and going after a championship. The only thing this draft approach is doing is providing insurance so that in the future we probably wont have to suffer through one of those 2-14 seasons. You can say whatever you want, but the results speak for themselves. This team hasn't won in seven years. And unless there are some major upgrades (which aren't likely to be found in round 2 or free agency) I don't see how 2011 will be any different. This pass rush situation is no different than the WR situation that cost us a Superbowl in 2006. This team is stuck in mediocrity. And most of you don't seem to mind. I don't get how anybody can support Bill's allergies to first/second round talent. If you, or anybody else, would care to educate me, I'd be more than happy to listen. Because I just don't get it. What do want to bet he thows number 33 away today?   
    Posted by df2[/QUOTE]

    Sure and look how the Jests turned out moving up so much? This year they are screwed w too many FAs they cannot aford to keep and rookies will not replace them. Sure rex made it to the AFC championship 2 yrs in a row, but playoffs are playoffs.

    I think the Saints are a better example of what they have built via the draft and FA like the Pats did in the SB years.

    To be honest the FA market the past few years for DE and pass rushing OLB has been poor due to so many more teams going to a 3-4 since 2004/5.

    at the moment pash rusher is 'still' the only concern so DE and OLB needs to be addressed via the draft (Reed, Ayers, Houston, Sherad, DL Bailey in 2nd round) as again FAs are not that great this year.

    Pats can still pick a starting G/C w Wisniewski, Boling Moffit etc in the 2nd to 3rd

    RBs are a dime a dozen in the Pats system so FA and a 2/3/4rd rd picks are not too bad either.

    WR, CB, S and OL/DL depth are still options after that
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Re: OT? WTGF?!!!

    Absolutely agree Gadis....I wonder is Bowers in on the radar for Friday...LOw Risk ( 2nd Round)  High reward.......especially when he could be pressuring aqbout 50% of the time......But Reed and sherad would help too....

    Going to be a fun friday and listing to the comments tomorrow...
     

Share