Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from irishfanatic. Show irishfanatic's posts

    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    I agree for the most part with these sentiments. At the start of the season we knew patience was going to be required with D.It will come 2gether. Something I would like to see remedied quickly however is the missed tackles and these misses are not completly on the rookies. Look forward to next Monday night with cautious optimism. Fins are no worldbeaters at present either imo.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    They're talented but they're kids!

    They'll be a little better in a month, and they'll be pretty good by December.  BB has a solid history of starting half-incompetent but talented players in September and then winning like crazy in December.  This year he's started many, many rooks and second-years.  Meriweather is suddenly an old man in the backfield.

    Of special note, either Kyle Arrington will get less incompetent, or Wheatley will recover, or else Butler will recover.  Butler was getting a pretty good track record, so I assume that he got injured and can't play. 

    The defense could use a week off, and it's coming soon.  They could use three months off but that's not in the cards.
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    In Response to Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!:
    [QUOTE]They're talented but they're kids! They'll be a little better in a month, and they'll be pretty good by December.  BB has a solid history of starting half-incompetent but talented players in September and then winning like crazy in December.  This year he's started many, many rooks and second-years.  Meriweather is suddenly an old man in the backfield. Of special note, either Kyle Arrington will get less incompetent, or Wheatley will recover, or else Butler will recover.  Butler was getting a pretty good track record, so I assume that he got injured and can't play. 
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]

    -

    I'm a firm believer in both wishful thinking and that past success is a good indicator of coming success -- until it isn't.

    All that's been said here can come true and we must be really patient and ready to revisit the topic after game 10.  We should see significant improvement in this D by game 10 (or else), and if we do then our hope and faith has been rightly placed.

    If both the O & D are clicking, and we make the playoffs, then it's a week by week elimination season and who knows what could happen.

    It would be nice for the D to contribute big to a road win in the meantime.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimijazz. Show jimijazz's posts

    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!


    It's true the D should improve throughout the season but it is unrealistic to expect the offense to score on every possession.  And it's not good for the offense. 

    If every play is designed to get 5 yards and keep long drives alive it makes the Pats offense much easier to defend.  The long throws deep to Moss used to be daggers in heart of the other team but now they either 1) result in a TD and bring the defense back on the field, or 2) bring up third and long.  Neither of these results is desireable right now. 

    The Pats need some balance and they better get it soon.
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

     What bothers me most is the lack of discipline especially in the secondary. I lost track of the amount of times players were out of position.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from joerock22. Show joerock22's posts

    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    If by "fine" you mean a middle-of-the-pack defense by season's end, then yes, they will be "fine."  But that's all they'll be, and that's the best case scenario.  If they allow 21-24 points per game for the rest of the season, that will be very good for them.  And it might be enough to make a playoff run.  Next season is another story, but we can't expect them to improve that much in just one season. 

    The list of problems is long.  On the D-line they have three guys who would be playing defensive tackle for other teams.  In theory, that should be good for stopping the run, but that hasn't really happened.  Banta-Cain is still their best pass rusher, which is a major problem.  Look at the other teams who play the 3-4; most of them have at least one very good pass rusher at OLB.  The Pats do not. 

    The linebackers are young and don't make enough plays.  They are fast, but they don't yet have the knowledge to effectively use that speed and quickness.  The secondary is suspect at best, with even Meriweather, our pro-bowler last year, taking bone-headed angles to ball-carriers and letting Spiller walk in for a TD.  If he's the veteran leadership in that group, how can we expect the rookies and 2nd year players to perform any better? 

    Overall, I believe the defense will improve this year.  They will grow together as a unit and be more competitive.  But I don't see them being anything more than average this season.  And with the offense the Pats have, average will hopefully be good enough. 
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    Unfortunately, playing young guys will have its issues/struggles early in the season and yes, there were/are some mistakes...however, in the long run (later in the season), the learning process will pay off. Keep in mind it is the youngest secondary in the league with the 7th youngest set of LB's, and if you don't count TBC, possibly the youngest LB's in the league (who BTW, didn't start yesterday in favor of Cunningham)!

    The thing that kills me is the continued deep zone coverage on third and long, they need to be more attacking and force the offense to make the perfect play by playing 1 or 2 deep with man under and even sometimes pure man with an all out blitz.

    Since they have the athletes, speed and talent it makes sense.  It is so much easier for a young QB to find a window in a deep zone than make progression reads vs. man under.  At this point which is worse, getting beat every now and then with a long TD pass or being "nickled & dimed" down the field for long drives? The Ravens and Jets employ this theory and it seems to work!

    Lack of discipline starts and ends with Merriweather, he is all about Brandon, and personally I believe he is on his "last leg" with the team (see Asante Samuel). His "mistakes" are endless and shouldn't be happening, but continually do.  BTW, even HS players know not to take an inside path on that touchdown play.
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    I'd feel better with the strong defensive line that we've had for years.

    The defense needs to work together for the entire game to succeed.....even with all the points scored last night in the Jet/Dolphins game, those were swarming aggresive defenses...like the ones we used to have.

    The defense will get better, but we miss Warren and Bodden.

     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    I agree, this team is headed for a 4th Lombardi.
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    They're going to get past the Colts with that D and ground game. Right.
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    I think they'll get better as the season goes on. There's certainly reason for concern but the defense is extremely young and will only improve. I also think people have given up on Butler a little too early. He hasn't played well this year, but it's too early to declare him a bust.

    I think if Leigh Bodden was healthy this defense would be ten times better than it is now. He is the most experienced player in the secondary and would have helped tremendously. That injury was a huge hit.

    But look on the bright side. People assumed Brace was a bust and he's been holding his own. Chung is looking like he could be a future pro bowl safety. McCourty looks like a bonafide starter. Give the young defense time, they could surprise people.
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    Just don't play zone coverage on 3rd down. Pretty simple.  BB experimenting with zone coverage against a 1st time starting QB this year is not the end of the world.

    Give credit to people like Sam Bradford and Fitzpatrick for hitting the receivers in the zones.

    And Fitzpatrick is much better than Trent Edwards. Jets will have problems next week.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    At last, a thread born of reason.  Thank you.

    I absolutely concur in the assessment of young, mistake-prone but will improve. 

    Without condemning the D, there are a couple of points made above that I believe are worthy of restating.

    Poor tackling or bad angles, in my judgment, led either directly or indirectly to Buffalo points or longer Buffalo time of possession. on a number of occasions.  The most obvious examples were the kick-off return for a TD and 3 & 18 3rd down conversion. 

    Miami would be a tough game even if the D were playing better; Baltimore as well.  As the season rolls into November I'll be looking to see things come together a bit on the D side of the ball.

    Thanks to all previous posters, patsfan in particular, for an intelligent thread.
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    albie maybe he is playing the zone early so they can get experience for when it will matter later???
     
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    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    In Response to Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!! : It's nice to be optomistic but saying they weren't that bad yesterday is laughable.  The D was absolutely atrocious against arguably the worse offense in football. Luckily they got gifted a couple of INT's on terrible throws. It can only get better is the only thing I agree with.
    Posted by tompenny[/QUOTE]
    They were horrible yesterday, but it also wasn't the same offense. The Bills were pumped about having a new starting QB, and that QB read the defense well and made the throws. They got lucky with a missed call on the kickoff return by Spiller as well. The Bills were the worst offense when Edwards was playing, but I want to see how they do with Fitzpatrick in there. I'm trying to be optimistic here aside from the "it can only get better" stance, which I posted earlier.

    However, any way you look at it the tackling was atrocious. That third and very long conversion was absolutely pathetic. Did anyone see Guyton on that play? It looked like he was afraid to hit the receiver! He's a linebacker! That's exactly what he should want to do! When the completion is about 5 yards short of the first down and there are three players there to make the tackle, that shouldn't be converted. Meriweather's read on Spiller's TD reception was terrible. Hopefully BB tears these guys apart and they come out on fire next week.

    Also, Chung is a beast.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from irishfanatic. Show irishfanatic's posts

    Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!

    In Response to Re: Our Defense Will be Fine!!!:
    [QUOTE]Atj, thanks, I did something new this game.  I jotted down everything that happened during the game while it was happening, so I dont make any drunken monday morning QB assesments, and all in all, I just dont feel we were that bad considering the mistakes coming mostly from elder statesmen like B.M. and J.S., I have hope for the youngins, and if you take away the Kickoff and the bad angles, tackles, I think the BIlls put up 10 points...So although it was bad, I see a lot of correctable things, and with a bye week coming soon, I think Bill will have fun whipping these guys into shape w/ all the bad film he has to show them...and it can only get better...
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]
    PF76, I am similar to u on the "jotting down" aspect, except I could not do it while watching game live as I am to put it mildly "a little stoked and reactionary" whilst wayching. I do however jot my notes when I replay the game once or thrice, the following day, ensuring a more calculated look than I would b capable of during the game.
    We do not see "game film" but we are not blind either. When I made mention earlier to wanting the "missed tackles" addressed post haste I was referring to the obvious misses on Spiller's return T/D and more frustrating was the 3rd and 18 completion as a direct result of Guyton/Wilhite and Merri-do-my-own-thing ending up doing a good impersonation of the 3 Stooges. Brings a new meaning to "Team Tackle".
    It isn't rocket science~~ do the basic things correctly and you prevail. In fact this is what has seperated the Patriots from all the others this past decade, namely making less mistakes than the opponent. My rant is now over......for now.....this looking 4ward to Miami game, truthfully.
     
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