Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    2nd round pick for J-Stewart please. Last year of his deal and is now expendable. I hope we at least inquire.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]2nd round pick for J-Stewart please. Last year of his deal and is now expendable. I hope we at least inquire.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    That would be a kiler move, but it doesn't sound realistic. 

    Still, imagine that core group, Gronk, Welker, Stewart, Lloyd, Hernandez. 

    Really no weak points there. They could basically do what they wanted whenever they wanted. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : That would be a kiler move, but it doesn't sound realistic.  Still, imagine that core group, Gronk, Welker, Stewart, Lloyd, Hernandez.  Really no weak points there. They could basically do what they wanted whenever they wanted. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    It would amazing. I figure one of those 2 players are now expendable though no?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    I would question the money he would want at age 24. But, then again, with the cap going up in 2014, I'd rather pay someone like that than Welker.

    Anyone know why his production dipped so badly in 2010 and 2011?  I know they like DeAngelo Williams, but his 1st 2 years were much better than his last two.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : That would be a kiler move, but it doesn't sound realistic.  Still, imagine that core group, Gronk, Welker, Stewart, Lloyd, Hernandez.  Really no weak points there. They could basically do what they wanted whenever they wanted. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Why is it not realistic? 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : It would amazing. I figure one of those 2 players are now expendable though no?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, but does Stewart really seem like a BB type value? Would Carolina want only a second? Would BB want to pick up an expiriing contract, on a player in his prime, even for a second? 

    You'll have to pry BB's 2nd rounders from his cold dead hands too, lol. And the fact that Stewart would need to be re-signed to make sense, makes it incredibly tricky. 

    Still, 235lbs, cut-n-go runner, who caught 47 passes ... I mean, he seems tailor-made for what NE likes to do. Him plus Lloyd would add a stretch dimension. 

    Or someone like him.  

    I would put equal odds that BB grabs another runner in the second round. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    I think he may have been hurt 2 years ago and then he has Cam accounting for a major amount of the carries himself.  I know it's early but you'd have to think really that'd be the best offense in football, the fact McDaniels is back as OC would be majorly beneficial to that group as well, I think he's got a better creative mind that O Brien as well as a better concept of situational offense finally i hope he's smart enough to over come the huge problem of the subbing of the RB's at times you could read the offense like a book last year
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]Anyone know why his production dipped so badly in 2010 and 2011?  I know they like DeAngelo Williams, but his 1st 2 years were much better than his last two.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    2010: The team was a complete trainwreck.

    2011: Cam Newton
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In 2009 Stewart and Williams BOTH ran for like 1,150 yards

    yikes!

    They really don't need all 3 of those guys, right..haha

    What about Ocho :-), our 3rd rd pick and a conditional pick in '13 based on yardage? Like a 1st for 1,500, 2nd for 1,200, 3rd for 900, 4th for 600 and nothing less than a 5th?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : 2010: The team was a complete trainwreck. 2011: Cam Newton
    Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE]

    Makes sense, I guess.  What doesn't make sense is the Panthers decisions.

    Not trading Peppers, resigning Steve Smith, drafting Stewart when you had Williams, and right on the down the line.

    They never fullly committed to rebuilding into the lockout and now their team is built incorrectly.  

    They only way I would trade the back end 2nd rd pick for Stewart is if his money demands weren't outrageous for his new contract.  If they did move on something  like this, they'd have to deal Welker.  I am sure Welker knows that and by him waiting to sign the tag, that would hurt BB's position, dealing him possibly into the season.

    Also, NE is an ideal trading partner because of the AFC/NFC thing.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : Why is it not realistic? 
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Maybe unrealistic was a bit strong. 

    Highly unlikely?

    I'm sick, got three hours of sleep, but when was the last time BB went whole hog on a player in his prime, who will be looking for a payday?

    You would have to pay the man, right? And he would be worth it given his abilities, don't get me wrong. 

    But BB took Lloyd and didn't play around with Wallace .... I see him looking for "value."
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : Yeah, but does Stewart really seem like a BB type value? Would Carolina want only a second? Would BB want to pick up an expiriing contract, on a player in his prime, even for a second?  You'll have to pry BB's 2nd rounders from his cold dead hands too, lol. And the fact that Stewart would need to be re-signed to make sense, makes it incredibly tricky.  Still, 235lbs, cut-n-go runner, who caught 47 passes ... I mean, he seems tailor-made for what NE likes to do. Him plus Lloyd would add a stretch dimension.  Or someone like him.   I would put equal odds that BB grabs another runner in the second round. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Because 1st rders are too valuable now with the rookie cap. That's one reason. His production dropped off in 2010 and 2011, and regardless of it being his fault or not, that creates less leverage for Hurney.

    Then again, Hurney is one of the worst GMs in the league and wanted 2 1st rders for Peppers in 2009. lmao

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    Well, something has got to go in that Panthers backfield that is for sure, and it probably won't be Williams with his price tag.

    The problem, as others have said, with both Stewart and Williams is their production has been inconsistent to bad the last couple of years.  Of course sometimes a new locale is all that is needed but we also all know that sometimes RB's are gone quicker than they arrived.

    All that being said, with the abundance of draft picks the Pats have, and the seeming need for a feature back, at least exploring options with Carolina seems to make a lot of sense.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : Maybe unrealistic was a bit strong.  Highly unlikely? I'm sick, got three hours of sleep, but when was the last time BB went whole hog on a player in his prime, who will be looking for a payday? You would have to pay the man, right? And he would be worth it given his abilities, don't get me wrong.  But BB took Lloyd and didn't play around with Wallace .... I see him looking for "value."
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    How is not value to get a 24 year old RB with experience and using an extra 2nd rd pick and controlling his contract with the idea the cap skyrockets in 2014?  You just trade for him with the understanding he's not going to get top tier RB money like Ray Rice will get, etc.

    It's actually a good thing that he had crappy prdocution in 2010 and 2011. 

    It would basically set up the transition for Mallet in a few years too.  Or, if Brady somehow looks great at age 37 and 38.

    Stewart, Ridley and Vereen. 3 young RBs with varying skill sets.  Stweart is the upgrade over BJGE because he does have the ability to run with some power and break off some big runs. He runs kind of like a Dillon.

    The beauty of this idea is, he isn't a trendy RB name. He's been used poorly by a bad organization.

    Plop him here and you're looking at a 15-1 type season with  the additions of Lloyd and more experience with your other younger offensive players.

    The whole idea of adding picks in the draft is for situations like this.  Mt Hurl and others mock BB for trading back, but when you control drafts, this is the payoff.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    Couple of things here... Both RB's production dropped but wouldn't have if Cam Newton hadn't had the most rushing tds for a QB in NFL history. Neither back got redzone carries. Both had a great ypc.

    We would have to sign the guy long term if giving up a 2nd rounder but we have done it before.

    Is there a possibility that the market for J-Stew is down due to his production dipping for the last 2 years? Could be a steal if so!

    BUT, if the guy is willing to sign a 3 year deal(which seems to be our mode right now) for a fair price then this would be a great pick up for this offense.

    In either case we need RB depth and possibly a starter. We should at least inquire imo!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : How is not value to get a 24 year old RB with experience and using an extra 2nd rd pick and controlling his contract with the idea the cap skyrockets in 2014?  You just trade for him with the understanding he's not going to get top tier RB money like Ray Rice will get, etc. It's actually a good thing that he had crappy prdocution in 2010 and 2011.  It would basically set up the transition for Mallet in a few years too.  Or, if Brady somehow looks great at age 37 and 38. Stewart, Ridley and Vereen. 3 young RBs with varying skill sets.  Stweart is the upgrade over BJGE because he does have the ability to run with some power and break off some big runs. He runs kind of like a Dillon. The beauty of this idea is, he isn't a trendy RB name. He's been used poorly by a bad organization.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Maybe you are right. I would love to see it happen. 

    You are certainly right he won't be looking for Rice/Jackson money. 

    And he is young enough to be here for a while. 

    I would be surprised though. 

    Pleasantly surprised. A player like Lloyd shores up a weakness. A player like Stewart, IMO, adds a whole new kind of threat.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    It's the combo of each (Lloyd and Stewart).

    Put it this way:

    This is the Moss/Welker approach in 2007, but just using a different philosophy in position with skill set.

    Trade Welker for a 1st rd pick. TB might do it for a 2013 1st rd pick, They have tons of cap space, have a good young QB, Vincent Jackson, a big beastly RB, etc, and are a rising team.

    Trade a 2nd rd pick to Carolina for Jonathan Stewart. 

    You can stll have a killer draft, use multiple slot types in Herandez, Edelman or Gonzalez, and control the money Stewart would be getting long term.

    You upgrade over BJGE and strike fear into the entire AFC field for the next 2-3 years with Brady.  I'd rather pay Lloyd like we just did and add Stewart by using a 2nd rder than overpaying Welker.

    You could keep Welker with the tag for a year, too, but then you lose out on the ROI with him by letting him walk into FA at age 32 in 2013.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : Why is it not realistic? 
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    I would say it's less realistic then Webb and you don't think Webb is realistic.

    The reason I say that is because:

    1) Stewart has more years of production at a top level then Webb so his contract demands will be closer top end market value then Webb's reducing his value

    2) We already spent two relatively high picks on RB's last year, which makes it less of a need then if it was during the 11' off-season (doesn't mean Stewart wouldn't be an upgrade but again the value is minimized by having Ridley and Vereen waiting in the wings)

    3) RB's have a short life expectancy compared to CB's. Stewart might have 2-4 years left in him while Webb might have 6+. Again the value

    4) The Pats don't use a feature back system anymore. They use situational RB's to compliment their passing game. Whether any of us like it or not the Pats use the pass to set up the run so having a low cost high flexibility RB core is more important then having a high cost feature back

    Doesn't mean it's not realistic but it's most likely less realistic then a player you already said wasn't realistic.

    Stewart is to what fans of the running game as to Wallace is to fans of the passing game
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]Doesn't mean it's not realistic but it's most likely less realistic then a player you already said wasn't realistic.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    LOL! Is that a riddle?  haha

    Start a poll right now and ask who would rather have what. Webb for a 1st rd pick and Asamougha money or Stewart for a 2nd rd pick and split back market money.

    These are not remotely close, dude.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    "Stewart is to what fans of the running game as to Wallace is to fans of the passing game"

    I gotta disagree here Eng. Wallace is a better player at his position then Stewart is. If they both got signed to long term contracts today, I think Wallace would be in the 60 million range while Stewart would be half of that at the most.

    Perhaps I took that out of context though.

    I also think Stewart would have a larger impact on our offense then wallace would.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GO47. Show GO47's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    Just an FYI: The Patriots traded for Corey Dillion on April 19th, 2004, for a 2nd round pick.

    This team is slowly getting all the pieces it needs for another run just like back then. The running back and big center are the missing pieces.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]"Stewart is to what fans of the running game as to Wallace is to fans of the passing game" I gotta disagree here Eng. Wallace is a better player at his position then Stewart is. If they both got signed to long term contracts today, I think Wallace would be in the 60 million range while Stewart would be half of that at the most. Perhaps I took that out of context though. I also think Stewart would have a larger impact on our offense then wallace would.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. It increases the chances of solving the elephant in the room known as the "problem".

    I am afraid we still have fans who aren't seeing it or don't want to accept it. If you accept there is a "problem" with the offense and the passing addiction, then you look at it like you and I do.

    Lloyd solves the route running, field stretching/deep threat issue on the flank, Wallace may not due to learning a completely different system here in NE.

    Stewart would present an upgrade over BJGE and he may not cost that much more to extend per year. I am thinking around 5 mil per year.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : LOL! Is that a riddle?  haha Start a poll right now and ask who would rather have what. Webb for a 1st rd pick and Asamougha money or Stewart for a 2nd rd pick and split back market money. These are not remotely close, dude.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    but you are assuming he will get Aso money (which might be a poor assumption) and you are assuming Stewart wants split back money when he's already said he wants to be paid like a feature back.

    Given their production so far in their careers what do you think is more likely Stewart getting Foster type of money as a feature back or Webb getting Aso type of money as a starting CB? I'm thinking Stewart is more likely to get top 5 RB money then Webb is likely to get top 5 CB money this year. Now that could change next year. If Webb puts up another year like last year then his value will be top 5 CB money but not right now. That's the difference
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]Just an FYI: The Patriots traded for Corey Dillion on April 19th, 2004, for a 2nd round pick. This team is slowly getting all the pieces it needs for another run just like back then. The running back and big center are the missing pieces.
    Posted by GO47[/QUOTE]

    They like Nick McDonald. He's your big Center.  Scarnecchia was also raving about Connolly in the playoffs.  I don't see Connolly losing his job outright.

    I do agree they should go G/C in the mid rounds of the draft, however.  

    The Mankins contract still bothers me.  He's probably the most overrated player on the team.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : but you are assuming he will get Aso money (which might be a poor assumption) and you are assuming Stewart wants split back money when he's already said he wants to be paid like a feature back. Given their production so far in their careers what do you think is more likely Stewart getting Foster type of money as a feature back or Webb getting Aso type of money as a starting CB? I'm thinking Stewart is more likely to get top 5 RB money then Webb is likely to get top 5 CB money this year. Now that could change next year. If Webb puts up another year like last year then his value will be top 5 CB money but not right now. That's the difference
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]


    Dude, if you are giving up a high valued 1st rd pick, that means the agent will use thaat against you when it comes time to negotiate. It's not an assumption. It's a fact the agent will do that.

    This means you will have to pay Webb top tier CB money which is Asamougha money. I don't want a CB here at 12-15 million per year, becayse it messes with the SB/dynasty building formula that is essentially the best way to build teams in the cap era. It's bad enough we overpaid Mankins at Guard.

    You're ASSUMING they can toss a valued 1st rder for Webb and he's the next Michael Haynes or something. I don't get your infatuation with Webb.  Every year there is a CB that have a huge rise in play and the media starts babbling. I already used Tramon Williams as an example. Year before that it was Dunta Robinson. This year it will be someone else.

    NO THANKS

    They never play as great as that one stretch that they had.
     

Share