Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]"Stewart is to what fans of the running game as to Wallace is to fans of the passing game" I gotta disagree here Eng. Wallace is a better player at his position then Stewart is. If they both got signed to long term contracts today, I think Wallace would be in the 60 million range while Stewart would be half of that at the most. Perhaps I took that out of context though. I also think Stewart would have a larger impact on our offense then wallace would.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Oh I think Stewart would have a larger impact then Wallace too, because he is a considerable upgrade at the RB position where as Wallace is not nearly the same upgrade at the WR position.

    I also think you are underestimating Stewarts value. I see him getting a Foster type of deal. He's production/carry has been that of a top end feature back over the years. He can't help it that he splits time with another top end back. I think most teams would put Stewart above Jackson at this point and maybe even above AP (simply because of AP's injure problems not because of talent).

    Though I agree his contract won't be as large as Wallace's, I can see Stewart demanding 4-5yrs at 7-10mil per yr range with half guaranteed, which is a lot to pay a back in the Pats system.

    What I meant by that comment is that the people who support Wallace say that the cap number wouldn't be an issue and that Wallace is worth the 1st while people like Rusty think of it as an impossibility because of the contract cost and it's just not what the Pats do. Then with Stewart, Rusty isn't being realistic on what Stewart will demand or realize that's not what the Pats do with RB's either. They don't overpay for RB's, never have never will and with Stewart they would need to. So for both Stewart and Wallace people they are blind to the contract they are likely to demand and that Pats history has shown they won't pay top end money for other teams players. The funny thing is that both sides will use the same logic to tell the other side why the Pats won't trade for them. It's almost comical in a way
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    You think a split back who is now being cast off by Carolina will get the same money as Arian Foster?

    Are you high?

    And you want to trade a 1st for Webb and then pay him Asamougha money?  What on earth, dude?

    How is a 2nd rd pick, an extra one, with an RBs stock so low, "overpaying"?  I'd much rather keep Brady upright and invest in a middle market RB with upside and some experience than roll the dice at that position, conituing to lose SBs.

    The only thing comical is you not getting it.  You also apparently aren't aware the cap goes up in 2014, 1st rd picks are more valuable now with a rookie cap, why we lost SB 46 and that we have plenty of good young CBs here, but need a Safety and a young pass rusher. We don't need some overpriced trendy CB who benefitted playing on a veteran D in Baltimore.

    Many FA Rbs right now can'tget the money they want as well, which only increases BB's bargaining power after a trade for a Stewart.

    Add in his low production in 2010 and 2011 and BB is sitting pretty in the negotiating seat.

    You seem to want to buy stock at ultra high prices. lol
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffab. Show jeffab's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    There is no way Stewart gets Foster like money, especially this season where the market has been for WR's.....and I'm not sure who in their right mind would put Stewart above Adrian Peterson.  If Stewart deserved Foster like money, the Panthers wouldn't have heaped the money on an older DeAngelo Williams.  I live in NC and have many Panther fan buddies...if only they worked for the Panthers front office - one said he would trade Stewart for Ocho straight up.

    Fun to think about, not sure if the Pats would be interested in Stewart, but that offense would be terrifying.  As a fan, these are good "problems" to have.  A stud back like Stewart would, as BassFishing has astutely observed, encourage the Pats to work towards a LITTLE more balance in the offense.  This would not be a bad thing.    
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : Dude, if you are giving up a high valued 1st rd pick, that means the agent will use thaat against you when it comes time to negotiate. It's not an assumption. It's a fact the agent will do that. This means you will have to pay Webb top tier CB money which is Asamougha money. I don't want a CB here at 12-15 million per year, becayse it messes with the SB/dynasty building formula that is essentially the best way to build teams in the cap era. It's bad enough we overpaid Mankins at Guard. You're ASSUMING they can toss a valued 1st rder for Webb and he's the next Michael Haynes or something. I don't get your infatuation with Webb.  Every year there is a CB that have a huge rise in play and the media starts babbling. I already used Tramon Williams as an example. Year before that it was Dunta Robinson. This year it will be someone else. NO THANKS They never play as great as that one stretch that they had.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    You keep bringing up Williams but Williams was still a top 10 CB last year! It we got Webb and he had a year like Williams had this past year I'd be flipping for joy. It just shows how foolish you are if you think saying he's like Williams is a bad thing.

    BTW who in the heck said Robinson was a top tier CB? I don't remember a single person saying that Robinson was a top CB. I'm pretty sure you are making that on up as the year before Williams I believe it was Revis and the year before that it was Aso, all of which aren't to shabby either
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    From Rotoworld:

    "

    DeAngelo Williams: Carolina to move Stewart or Williams?

    DeAngelo Williams - RB - CAR - Mar. 19 - 2:04 pm et

    Whereas the Charlotte Observer has reported the Panthers are "unlikely" to trade Jonathan Stewart, ESPN's Pat Yasinskas believes the club will have moved either Stewart or DeAngelo Williams before April's draft.
    Yasinskas, a former Panthers beat writer and current NFC South blogger for ESPN, is confident Mike Tolbert was "brought in to be the No. 2 back." Stewart has much more trade value, but the Panthers would best position themselves for the 2012 season by keeping him and Tolbert, and moving on from Williams. Williams' contract will easily be the biggest stumbling block in a trade. He'd cause a roughly $8 million cap hit if released this offseason, and many teams will be scared off by Williams' five-year, $43 million deal at age 29. Mar. 19 - 2:04 pm et
    Source: ESPN.com"

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    On the one hand, this Yasinskas (youngstinkass?) guy WAS the beat writer for the Panthers...so he should be pretty well keyed in.

    On the OTHER hand, he now works for ESPN who is notorious for running with things unconfirmed, or totally making them up.

    I like both Williams and Stewart. Williams only if he reworks his deal, Stewart only for no higher-than a 3rd, and assuming it's a rental. I'm ok giving up a 3rd for one year of Stewart on this team and to give Ridley/Vereen another year of seasoning.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]Just an FYI: The Patriots traded for Corey Dillion on April 19th, 2004, for a 2nd round pick. This team is slowly getting all the pieces it needs for another run just like back then. The running back and big center are the missing pieces.
    Posted by GO47[/QUOTE]


    what about the pass rush and secondary?

    I'd rather have an elite rusher and cover corner than stewart and a upgrade to Connolly
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : what about the pass rush and secondary? I'd rather have an elite rusher and cover corner than stewart and a upgrade to Connolly
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    A cover corner sure, but when is the last time a BB coached defense had an "elite" pass rusher? LT?!?!

    I say another dominant space eating DT, then the rest of the guys can get to the QB on their JAG salaries.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZachRudy. Show ZachRudy's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    Pats fan down here in Carolina.  Part of Stewarts problem in 2010 was injury.  He played hurt and didn't have the same burst.  Also, the Panther's offense was probably the most predictable in the league.  Everyone knew the Panthers were going to run.  The O-line was also dealing with some injuries (by the end of that year I think half the players on that team were injured).  Last season, both Williams and Stewart started out very slow.  Once again, the O-line experienced some injury and there was also a noticable drop off in the play of Ryan Kalil.  

    I am a little wary of Jonathan Stewart.  It seems like he has come into camp the past two years with nagging injuries.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joel63. Show Joel63's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

     True,

    I'm with ya dude. I posted on here a month ago (and a couple of times since) that I had heard the Patriots were interested in him on our local sports radio show here in Charlotte, WFNZ. The reason his numbers are down in 2010 and '11 as posted earlier were due to the train wreck that was 2010 and Cam Newton last year. He averaged over 5 YPC and 8.78 YPR. I like those numbers a lot. Tolbert signed because of his production and his relationship with Ron Rivera. Stewart is 5' 10' and 235 lbs. He turns 26 this week and would be one helluva get for NE in my humble opinion. Oh, he has one year remaining on his rookie deal and I wonder what kinda pick (round) we'd have to give up.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE] Also, the Panther's offense was probably the most predictable in the league.  
    Posted by ZachRudy[/QUOTE]

    Huh . . . reading this forum, I would have thought the Pats had the most predictable offense in hte league ... 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years... : You keep bringing up Williams but Williams was still a top 10 CB last year! It we got Webb and he had a year like Williams had this past year I'd be flipping for joy. It just shows how foolish you are if you think saying he's like Williams is a bad thing. BTW who in the heck said Robinson was a top tier CB? I don't remember a single person saying that Robinson was a top CB. I'm pretty sure you are making that on up as the year before Williams I believe it was Revis and the year before that it was Aso, all of which aren't to shabby either
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    No he wasn't. He and Woodson had off years.  Dunta Robinson hit free agency and cashed in that year.  Plenty of NFL fans thought that and so did the Falcons. Look at the contract.

    Fact is, teams who overpay at CB don't win SBs. No thanks.  End of discussion. You want it, I don't.

    If BB had paid Ty Law in 2005 and not just promoted Samuel and Gay, our team is WORSE off for it in the following years.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...

    In Response to Re: Panthers sign Mike Tolbert 4 years...:
    [QUOTE] True, I'm with ya dude. I posted on here a month ago (and a couple of times since) that I had heard the Patriots were interested in him on our local sports radio show here in Charlotte, WFNZ. The reason his numbers are down in 2010 and '11 as posted earlier were due to the train wreck that was 2010 and Cam Newton last year. He averaged over 5 YPC and 8.78 YPR. I like those numbers a lot. Tolbert signed because of his production and his relationship with Ron Rivera. Stewart is 5' 10' and 235 lbs. He turns 26 this week and would be one helluva get for NE in my humble opinion. Oh, he has one year remaining on his rookie deal and I wonder what kinda pick (round) we'd have to give up.
    Posted by Joel63[/QUOTE]

    Yeah I heard from a few people in that area that we were interested in Stewart before they signed Tolbert. I think we could get him for our late 2nd rounder, but it might be wishful thinking.

    If we could send a player(Ocho) and a 3rd for a 1 year rental that might be ok too. We don't need all of our draft picks and we need to win now!
     

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