Pass D still pathetic

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Pass D still pathetic

    Anybody notice in the Miami game how many passes on 3rd and 10 or longer were given up buy the Pats secondary? I watched the highlights today and there were a bunch....

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Um. Not that many. The Fins converted only 3 of 13 3rd downs. That's a very good 23%. 

    Keep in mind the best team (Houston) manages a season long 28% and the worst team (Washington) is a 45% defense. 

    On offense NE is #1 with a 53% conversion rate, while Arizona holds a terrible 26% conversion rate. 

    Granted NE's defense is 3rd worst in the NFL with a dismal 43%. Albeit against two of the worst NFL offenses, the last two weeks they've managed to hold opponents to 6 of 23 on 3rd down. Counting the last three (since the Talib/Dennard shakeup) its a middle of the pack 37%. Which is at least respectable. 

    Poor 3rd down conversion is a direct correlation with poor pass rush/defense. 

    As a Patriots fan, this is an interesting statistic to watch because Bill Belichik and Ernie Adams put a lot of attention into this statistic. Deep efficiency stats like this do not lie. 

    Again, they've looked better the last few weeks. 

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    I think pathetic is too harsh at this time, although was correct games 1-5.

    I think today the Pats back 4 is playing league average. They are giving up big plays due to miscommunication and misreads, which is to be expected given Talib, Dennard and Mcourt are  relatively new, and Gregory has missed lots of time.

    I still feel Gregory s/b the 3rd S behind McCourtey and Chung if Chung is healthy.

    Lets give credit as well to the D for taking advantage of the tuirnovers given them. They are no longer dropping int's, they continue to take advantage of recovering fumbles, and the QB pressure is steady, although not over whelming. The added wrinkle of Mayo and Arrington blitzing, can only help as opposing teams now have to plan for this.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Other stats that coaches look at that track efficiencies are PPD (points per drive), Points per Red Zone possession, and average yardage given up or gained on first down. They are weird stats, but they also can't 'lie' as easily as a raw score or yardage total can.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    And you forget Hartlines drop when he was at least 5 yards beyond Talib, which should have been a Mami TD

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    The are improving, albeit not against the iron of the NFL.  They seem to have solved some of their ills by making McC a full-time saftey, developing Dennard, trading for Talib, starting Gregory over Chung and putting Arrington in the slot.  Let's have this conversation again in a few weeks.  At best, their secondary is improving.  At worst, they have a veteran playmaker or two who can change the game even if they continue to be a mediocre or worse pass D.  Re: the pass rush, Cunningham and Jones will be back, Scott looks like he can provide a decent rush and they have a few young guys wating in the wings in Bequette and Francis to help in the short term.  Glass-half-full enough for you?  

    Bottom line, I feel much better about the upside of this D than I did a year ago.   

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Wow, this is the second ridiculous thread you've started this week.  You must be Rusty.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And you forget Hartlines drop when he was at least 5 yards beyond Talib, which should have been a Mami TD

    [/QUOTE]


    Not to be a putz, but between the O and the D, just what would make you happy to be a Pats fan?  A 16-0 record where they win 54-14 every week?  We can nitpick plays here and there, but I'd rather just enjoy the fact that this team is 9-3 and that their play has been, for the most part, steady if not spectacular. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Talib looked out of position or someone was not where expected. Not sure who to blame it on but there were some wide open receivers that could have caught a better thrown pass.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And you forget Hartlines drop when he was at least 5 yards beyond Talib, which should have been a Mami TD

    [/QUOTE]


    Not to be a putz, but between the O and the D, just what would make you happy to be a Pats fan?  A 16-0 record where they win 54-14 every week?  We can nitpick plays here and there, but I'd rather just enjoy the fact that this team is 9-3 and that their play has been, for the most part, steady if not spectacular. 

    [/QUOTE]

    its ok that you are a putz.

    isnt the purpose of this board for fans to voice their opinions on the Pats? It is evident to all who opine, that the playoffs are a foregone conclusion, so what is it going to take to win another SB while surely facing Manning, Rothlsberger, Schaub and hopefully Rodgers, Ryan or Eli. Is this defense good enough if any one of those QB's bring their "A" game, and will this offense score enough points...

    isnt that what all the debate is about every day?

    Everyone is happy with record, but nit picking is why we sign in. Wouldnt reading that everyone on the PAts is peachy great be boring? 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    I like the direction the D is headed...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Should be interesting to see the next few games against a legit offenses...Sorry but in last few weeks nobody is going to accuse the Bills, Jets and Fins of being great passing offenses...Personally, I still believe to win the championship, DEFENSE and a GROUND game win it for ya....Isnt that what beat the Pats in their last 2 SB appearances?

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And you forget Hartlines drop when he was at least 5 yards beyond Talib, which should have been a Mami TD

    [/QUOTE]


    I just wanted to be sure that my comment wasn't construed as a personal attack is all.  Yes we should nitpick, but I refuse to be one of thos glass-half-empty guys that can't see the big picture or who consistenly finds the flaws while glossing past the good things this team is doing.  It's not all bad news in Foxboro, the Pats are one of a handful of teams with a legit shot to win it all. 

    There is no perfect team out there right now.  There are just some teams that screw up less than other teams. 



    Not to be a putz, but between the O and the D, just what would make you happy to be a Pats fan?  A 16-0 record where they win 54-14 every week?  We can nitpick plays here and there, but I'd rather just enjoy the fact that this team is 9-3 and that their play has been, for the most part, steady if not spectacular. 

    [/QUOTE]

    its ok that you are a putz.

    isnt the purpose of this board for fans to voice their opinions on the Pats? It is evident to all who opine, that the playoffs are a foregone conclusion, so what is it going to take to win another SB while surely facing Manning, Rothlsberger, Schaub and hopefully Rodgers, Ryan or Eli. Is this defense good enough if any one of those QB's bring their "A" game, and will this offense score enough points...

    isnt that what all the debate is about every day?

    Everyone is happy with record, but nit picking is why we sign in. Wouldnt reading that everyone on the PAts is peachy great be boring? 

    [/QUOTE]


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sorry but in last few weeks nobody is going to accuse the Bills, Jets and Fins of being great passing offenses...

    [/QUOTE]


    2nd half of season included Bills, Dolphins and Colts.  Bills and Dolphins have more passing yards then Seattle and Arizona who they played in the first half and the Colts who they played in the 2nd half have more passing yards then anyone the Pats played in the 1st half of the season, including Denver.  Man, look at these things before throwing out comments doubting my facts.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sorry but in last few weeks nobody is going to accuse the Bills, Jets and Fins of being great passing offenses...

    [/QUOTE]


    2nd half of season included Bills, Dolphins and Colts.  Bills and Dolphins have more passing yards then Seattle and Arizona who they played in the first half and the Colts who they played in the 2nd half have more passing yards then anyone the Pats played in the 1st half of the season, including Denver.  Man, look at these things before throwing out comments doubting my facts.

    [/QUOTE]


    the stats are facts, but are really useless facts. it does not factor in dropped passes, over thrown passes, or how often recievers are free behind the DB's and the QB looked another way....

    Tanneyhill has had a few good games, but against the Pats he was horrible. He missed open guys, made bad decisions. Many will say that the Pats D forced the outcome, many will say the Phins offense played poorly. Bottom line, the stats don't acknowledge any of this  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Sorry but in last few weeks nobody is going to accuse the Bills, Jets and Fins of being great passing offenses...

    [/QUOTE]


    2nd half of season included Bills, Dolphins and Colts.  Bills and Dolphins have more passing yards then Seattle and Arizona who they played in the first half and the Colts who they played in the 2nd half have more passing yards then anyone the Pats played in the 1st half of the season, including Denver.  Man, look at these things before throwing out comments doubting my facts.

    [/QUOTE]

    New England has played cr@p offenses all season. Their defense hasn't been matched against a single top 10 offense, discounting the Broncos who were a stumbling mess when they met. 

    Buffalo, who they saw in both halfs, is the  best offense they've seen at 17th. 

    In fact, this is probably one of the easiest defensive schedules I can recall seeing in recent memory. Zona, Seattle, Jets, Ravens, Tennessee, Miami, St Louis? That is really just a collection of terrible offenses. 

    That NEs defense hasn't played them better all season is worrying. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    New England until 2 weeks ago sent extra rushers a league low 15 % of the time. Last year it was the same story. This is the reason we give up yards. We don't go after the QB until BB feels the players are disiplined enough to do so. Drafting a player like Dennard in the 7th rd and adding Talib for a steal has allowed BB to be more aggressive.

    Putting his best player in the secondary(DMC) at safety imo is really the difference. We needed a disiplined cover safety who can tackle and be right place right time. Chung was a physical player but couldn't stay healthy and can't cover well enough. DMC,Gregory(another solid player) Dennard and Talib are the reason we can now send extra rushers and will be the reason the all important "passing yards allowed" stat will get better. Then maybe we can stop reading sour opinions of how our defense is "pathetic".

     

    Q. I don't know what Bill Belichick has done to the secondary over the past few games, but he needs to keep it up. Steve Gregory is proving to be a better safety than what New England had in all of 2011. We've been critical of Kyle Arrington this season, but he's still an excellent run defender. The issue may have been covering on the outside receivers as opposed to slot receivers where he's best suited. He kept Davone Bess in check on Sunday. Devin McCourty has improved at cornerback from 2011, but at the moment he should stay at safety. The long plays have been kept at a minimum since the transition. The tandem of Aqib Talib and Alfonzo Dennard allows Belichick to play more physical on outside receivers. Granted everyone stays healthy, this could be a sign of the secondary turning the corner at the right time. At the moment, could you see a better combination in the secondary? Is it likely that this group is capable to allow the Patriots to be more aggressive in the defensive play-calling? -- Alvin (Amherst, Mass.)

     

     

    A. Alvin, the statistics support the thought that with more stability in the secondary, it has allowed the coaching staff to be more aggressive. Before the Patriots acquired Talib on Nov. 1 from the Buccaneers, they rushed five or more defenders a league-low 15 percent of the time, according to ESPN Stats & Information tracking. With Talib, the number of rushes with five or more defenders has spiked to 28.3 percent. They've been better, although there are still some issues to address (e.g. play-action pass from Ryan Tannehill to Brian Hartline that should have been a TD after Steve Gregory appeared to bite on play-action). Specific to Arrington, I think it's an interesting topic because it appears to be a "less is more" type situation. Given the opportunity to focus solely on slot duties, he's playing the best he has all season.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Since the addition of Talib, moving DMC to S and installing Dennard....

    The secondary has managed to not make bottom rung NFL QBs look like Montana.

    That's a big improvement in my book. We'll see if it's for real just down the road a bit.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    New England has played cr@p offenses all season. Their defense hasn't been matched against a single top 10 offense, discounting the Broncos who were a stumbling mess when they met. 

    Buffalo, who they saw in both halfs, is the  best offense they've seen at 17th. 

    In fact, this is probably one of the easiest defensive schedules I can recall seeing in recent memory. Zona, Seattle, Jets, Ravens, Tennessee, Miami, St Louis? That is really just a collection of terrible offenses. 

    That NEs defense hasn't played them better all season is worrying. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Since this thread is aimed at Pass D, to be fair the Colts are ranked 5 in passing yards.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    New England has played cr@p offenses all season. Their defense hasn't been matched against a single top 10 offense, discounting the Broncos who were a stumbling mess when they met. 

    Buffalo, who they saw in both halfs, is the  best offense they've seen at 17th. 

    In fact, this is probably one of the easiest defensive schedules I can recall seeing in recent memory. Zona, Seattle, Jets, Ravens, Tennessee, Miami, St Louis? That is really just a collection of terrible offenses. 

    That NEs defense hasn't played them better all season is worrying. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Since this thread is aimed at Pass D, to be fair the Colts are ranked 5 in passing yards.

    [/QUOTE]

    Point taken.

    Keep in mind though, outside of the turnovers the Colts moved the ball well.

    The Colts converted over 50% of their 3rd downs. They passed well over 300 yards. They ran over 100 yards. They scored 24 points.

    Andrew Luck threw a few mistake passes -- which made the score really lopsided. But I won't pretend their offense didn't move the ball well. 

    The concern, for me, is that those turnovers tend to evaporate when NE is not scoring points in bunches. Whenever the game slows down the past few seasons, the defense slows down. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    I think the D is ranked 15th or 16th overall, not too shabby. Best part is they look a bit better each week. Our D inside the 20 is above average and our take-aways are above average.

    I'm very happy with what I have been seeing each week.

    The secondary is being helped by a D that has clearly been unleased with more pressure and less fancy 2 step dancing. I also love the new agressive approach, hope they keep it up.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Point taken.

    Keep in mind though, outside of the turnovers the Colts moved the ball well.

    The Colts converted over 50% of their 3rd downs. They passed well over 300 yards. They ran over 100 yards. They scored 24 points.

    Andrew Luck threw a few mistake passes -- which made the score really lopsided. But I won't pretend their offense didn't move the ball well. 

    The concern, for me, is that those turnovers tend to evaporate when NE is not scoring points in bunches. Whenever the game slows down the past few seasons, the defense slows down. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes, you are correct, the Colts did move the ball in the air and scored 24 points.  But the inital comment was they have not played a top 10 Offense besides the Broncos when in fact they did play the Colts who is passing very well.

    It's always hard to count on getting turnovers and this team gets a bunch of them but if they should be in a dog fight and the O isn't scoring and they aren't causing turnovers then we have a bit of a problem.  However, I think the D isn going the right direction, they are getting better, not worse, IMO!!  So I like what I am seeing so far this second half.  We will know a lot more after Monday night.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think the D is ranked 15th or 16th overall, not too shabby. Best part is they look a bit better each week. Our D inside the 20 is above average and our take-aways are above average.

    I'm very happy with what I have been seeing each week.

    The secondary is being helped by a D that has clearly been unleased with more pressure and less fancy 2 step dancing. I also love the new agressive approach, hope they keep it up.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The Pats are ranked 26th in total D.  They are tied 14th for points against.

     

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