Pass D still pathetic

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Yup, we give up yardage with long passing plays (hurts our yardage given up in games average)

    But, we hold our own with POINTS scored on us very respectfully I think.

    But, I don't care how many yds we gave up in the early weeks. I do believe our D has made solid progress.

     

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1423691-2012-fantasy-football-team-defense-rankings-nfl-week-13

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The are improving, albeit not against the iron of the NFL.  They seem to have solved some of their ills by making McC a full-time saftey, developing Dennard, trading for Talib, starting Gregory over Chung and putting Arrington in the slot.  Let's have this conversation again in a few weeks.  At best, their secondary is improving.  At worst, they have a veteran playmaker or two who can change the game even if they continue to be a mediocre or worse pass D.  Re: the pass rush, Cunningham and Jones will be back, Scott looks like he can provide a decent rush and they have a few young guys wating in the wings in Bequette and Francis to help in the short term.  Glass-half-full enough for you?  

    Bottom line, I feel much better about the upside of this D than I did a year ago.   

    [/QUOTE]

    yes. and while it's impossible to get an accurate read when a team plays inferior competition the signs all point to some improvement and maybe some growing confidence. some blitzing and mixing it up in recent weeks is also encouraging, and seems a change from that passive vanilla d the team employed for the first half of the season. if everyone is healthy, you have to feel better about the edge with a little depth (cunningham/scott); the LBs and DL are both solid... the dbs are not going to be a strength, but despite Talib getting beat on several occasions there's is something to be said for an infusion of pure talent, which the guy obviously has. i think his presence has taken off some of the pressure. he may not be a revis shut down type exactly (who is?), but he's an athlete who is skilled in the cover game. corners who can play top receivers (whether you deem them lockdown guys or not) can have a tremendous impact on a defense. mccourty's move to safety; dennard's physical presence; arrington being physical with slot receivers he can actually stay with (he gets killed with outside speed guys); as if in response to what's going on around him, Gregory getting more physical. Just seems like some positive things are happening.

    NOW, the true test will come against Houston and San Fran, but better to be in this place than where they were for much of the season when the d backfield appeared to be in shambles. this may never be a great set of dbs, but the team doesn't necessarily need them to be great. just reasonably solid. 

    one thing you have to like about the d as a whole is that they are opportunistic and can turn the ball over - huge anytime, but especially in the playoffs.  

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Tough to really tell how this defense is after playing two poor offenses, but at least Trevor Scott got out there and did something. I'd really like to see a guy like that replace Nincovich. Adding a guy like Talib has got to help, even if it's not always obvious and Dennard plays tough. I do worry about our defensive line on the inside (our tackles), because outside of Wilfork these guys get pushed back in the running game and that is going to catch up to us soomer or later. And it would really help if a defensive tackle could get some push from the inside and help out our outside guys (who look pretty talented).

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hang3xc. Show hang3xc's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And you forget Hartlines drop when he was at least 5 yards beyond Talib, which should have been a Mami TD

    [/QUOTE]


    Talib was supposed to be in Zone with Gregory over the top. Gregory blew the assignment and Talib had to try and catch up once he realized what was going on. Not Talibs fault (at least that's what I thought I heard )

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to hang3xc's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And you forget Hartlines drop when he was at least 5 yards beyond Talib, which should have been a Mami TD

    [/QUOTE]


    Talib was supposed to be in Zone with Gregory over the top. Gregory blew the assignment and Talib had to try and catch up once he realized what was going on. Not Talibs fault (at least that's what I thought I heard )

    [/QUOTE]

    i posteed this in the game thread. talib is suppose dot let the wr go o th edeep man, he (deep man) wasnt there

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheMightyTool. Show TheMightyTool's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    The Patriots D is the best; especially the secondary. Anyone think otherwise is a Jets Troll.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Pretty moot point overall.  Pats' past two SBs were played with a reasonably similar D; that is to say, trending upward in the latter half, but still not great.

    You can make the argument that with a better D, the Pats don't put themselves in situations like last year's SB.  But you can make just as good an argument that last year's SB loss came down to one dropped ball.  Kinda evens out, imo.

    They only need to be this good or slightly better to reach the SB, as long as their offense keeps the foot on the pedal.  Red zone starts converting FGs to TDs, and this team has the potential to be prolific.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    Points and yardage are part of a vector. They both matter. 

    Actually, put them together, considering yardage as an concrete outcome of the abstract figure for drives, and you get Points Per Drive, which is the stat that matters. You can track this on FOOTBALLOUTSIDERS and do math for a game pretty easily. Just discount kneel downs, and drives with less than a minute on the clock (unrealistic drives that quite infrequently yeild points) and divide the points into that.

    For a defense, giving up 21 points on 7 drives is very bad. Over 4 quarters it's a terrible performance. 3 points per drive, only a little more than what NE allowed in the Superbowl last season (2.65), is equal to what NE's record pace offense is scoring now (2.98) in context. Over the average game it would equate to about 30-36 points scored against. The 32nd ranked defense in PPD only gives up 2.5 PPD. 

    Giving up 21 points on 14 drives is very good. One means you were basically dominated, allowed clock to run off, and left your offense on the bench. The opponent is scoring about half the time they get the ball, or more depending. At 1.5 points per drive, you are among the elite, I think Seattle has something close to that and are ranked 5th overall.

    So two games, two scores of 21 points, two dramatically different performances. Points are not all that matters folks. One means you got spanked. The other means you got the ball back to your offense consistently. 

    What they did with it from there is their bag. 

    Just tired of hearing that yardage and 3rd down conversion doesn't matter, because they track the stats for a reason. They do matter ... they tell you the story of the game. 

    And FWIW, New England's offense scored 2.15 ppd in that game against NY. That would be good enough to notch 9th in the NFL overall, whereas the defense allowing 2.65 would be 32nd.

    The offense, in that game, greatly outperformed the defense. 

    And yards do matter, because they feed right into this stat .... which matters. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    We are one bad performance against Arizona and two "replacement ref' games away from being undefeated, this D leads the NFL in takeaways, this nitpicking is pathetic.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccsjl. Show ccsjl's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Points and yardage are part of a vector. They both matter. 

    Actually, put them together, considering yardage as an concrete outcome of the abstract figure for drives, and you get Points Per Drive, which is the stat that matters. You can track this on FOOTBALLOUTSIDERS and do math for a game pretty easily. Just discount kneel downs, and drives with less than a minute on the clock (unrealistic drives that quite infrequently yeild points) and divide the points into that.

    For a defense, giving up 21 points on 7 drives is very bad. Over 4 quarters it's a terrible performance. 3 points per drive, only a little more than what NE allowed in the Superbowl last season (2.65), is equal to what NE's record pace offense is scoring now (2.98) in context. Over the average game it would equate to about 30-36 points scored against. The 32nd ranked defense in PPD only gives up 2.5 PPD. 

    Giving up 21 points on 14 drives is very good. One means you were basically dominated, allowed clock to run off, and left your offense on the bench. The opponent is scoring about half the time they get the ball, or more depending. At 1.5 points per drive, you are among the elite, I think Seattle has something close to that and are ranked 5th overall.

    So two games, two scores of 21 points, two dramatically different performances. Points are not all that matters folks. One means you got spanked. The other means you got the ball back to your offense consistently. 

    What they did with it from there is their bag. 

    Just tired of hearing that yardage and 3rd down conversion doesn't matter, because they track the stats for a reason. They do matter ... they tell you the story of the game. 

    And FWIW, New England's offense scored 2.15 ppd in that game against NY. That would be good enough to notch 9th in the NFL overall, whereas the defense allowing 2.65 would be 32nd.

    The offense, in that game, greatly outperformed the defense. 

    And yards do matter, because they feed right into this stat .... which matters. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Was a guy named Parcells here awhile back that used to say that every 100 yards of offense was worth 3 points....

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Points and yardage are part of a vector. They both matter. 

    Actually, put them together, considering yardage as an concrete outcome of the abstract figure for drives, and you get Points Per Drive, which is the stat that matters. You can track this on FOOTBALLOUTSIDERS and do math for a game pretty easily. Just discount kneel downs, and drives with less than a minute on the clock (unrealistic drives that quite infrequently yeild points) and divide the points into that.

    For a defense, giving up 21 points on 7 drives is very bad. Over 4 quarters it's a terrible performance. 3 points per drive, only a little more than what NE allowed in the Superbowl last season (2.65), is equal to what NE's record pace offense is scoring now (2.98) in context. Over the average game it would equate to about 30-36 points scored against. The 32nd ranked defense in PPD only gives up 2.5 PPD. 

    Giving up 21 points on 14 drives is very good. One means you were basically dominated, allowed clock to run off, and left your offense on the bench. The opponent is scoring about half the time they get the ball, or more depending. At 1.5 points per drive, you are among the elite, I think Seattle has something close to that and are ranked 5th overall.

    So two games, two scores of 21 points, two dramatically different performances. Points are not all that matters folks. One means you got spanked. The other means you got the ball back to your offense consistently. 

    What they did with it from there is their bag. 

    Just tired of hearing that yardage and 3rd down conversion doesn't matter, because they track the stats for a reason. They do matter ... they tell you the story of the game. 

    And FWIW, New England's offense scored 2.15 ppd in that game against NY. That would be good enough to notch 9th in the NFL overall, whereas the defense allowing 2.65 would be 32nd.

    The offense, in that game, greatly outperformed the defense. 

    And yards do matter, because they feed right into this stat .... which matters. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Was a guy named Parcells here awhile back that used to say that every 100 yards of offense was worth 3 points....

    [/QUOTE]

    That's a fantastic point ... because it's true. IF it takes them 2 drives to get that 100 yards odds are they are coming away with points. The odds are about the same over 4 drives, but you've given your offense twice as many chances to answer.

    This is why the Patriots' defensive mantra since BB has been there has been "Get the Ball to the Offense."

    Likewise if it takes your offense 4 drives to amass 100 yards, they likely aren't getting away with many points, and they are increasing pressure on your defense to hold for an unreasonable period.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to ccsjl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Should be interesting to see the next few games against a legit offenses...Sorry but in last few weeks nobody is going to accuse the Bills, Jets and Fins of being great passing offenses...Personally, I still believe to win the championship, DEFENSE and a GROUND game win it for ya....Isnt that what beat the Pats in their last 2 SB appearances?

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, let's adhere to the notion that you must have a dominant defense and running game to win a championship.  Last year the Giants were 25th in defense and 32nd (yes, last) in rushing. The year before, Green Bay ranked 24th in rushing, yes they had a good defense (4th). 

    Oh by the way, the Giants and Packers were both 5th in passing and 9th in total offense. I realize stats like these don't tell the whole story, but clearly there's more than one way to skin a cat (or win a Super Bowl).

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Points and yardage are part of a vector. They both matter. 

    Actually, put them together, considering yardage as an concrete outcome of the abstract figure for drives, and you get Points Per Drive, which is the stat that matters. You can track this on FOOTBALLOUTSIDERS and do math for a game pretty easily. Just discount kneel downs, and drives with less than a minute on the clock (unrealistic drives that quite infrequently yeild points) and divide the points into that.

    For a defense, giving up 21 points on 7 drives is very bad. Over 4 quarters it's a terrible performance. 3 points per drive, only a little more than what NE allowed in the Superbowl last season (2.65), is equal to what NE's record pace offense is scoring now (2.98) in context. Over the average game it would equate to about 30-36 points scored against. The 32nd ranked defense in PPD only gives up 2.5 PPD. 

    Giving up 21 points on 14 drives is very good. One means you were basically dominated, allowed clock to run off, and left your offense on the bench. The opponent is scoring about half the time they get the ball, or more depending. At 1.5 points per drive, you are among the elite, I think Seattle has something close to that and are ranked 5th overall.

    So two games, two scores of 21 points, two dramatically different performances. Points are not all that matters folks. One means you got spanked. The other means you got the ball back to your offense consistently. 

    What they did with it from there is their bag. 

    Just tired of hearing that yardage and 3rd down conversion doesn't matter, because they track the stats for a reason. They do matter ... they tell you the story of the game. 

    And FWIW, New England's offense scored 2.15 ppd in that game against NY. That would be good enough to notch 9th in the NFL overall, whereas the defense allowing 2.65 would be 32nd.

    The offense, in that game, greatly outperformed the defense. 

    And yards do matter, because they feed right into this stat .... which matters. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course, you are correct, as anybody who knows this game or isn't suffering from incurable homerism would readily admit.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Points and yardage are part of a vector. They both matter. 

    Actually, put them together, considering yardage as an concrete outcome of the abstract figure for drives, and you get Points Per Drive, which is the stat that matters. You can track this on FOOTBALLOUTSIDERS and do math for a game pretty easily. Just discount kneel downs, and drives with less than a minute on the clock (unrealistic drives that quite infrequently yeild points) and divide the points into that.

    For a defense, giving up 21 points on 7 drives is very bad. Over 4 quarters it's a terrible performance. 3 points per drive, only a little more than what NE allowed in the Superbowl last season (2.65), is equal to what NE's record pace offense is scoring now (2.98) in context. Over the average game it would equate to about 30-36 points scored against. The 32nd ranked defense in PPD only gives up 2.5 PPD. 

    Giving up 21 points on 14 drives is very good. One means you were basically dominated, allowed clock to run off, and left your offense on the bench. The opponent is scoring about half the time they get the ball, or more depending. At 1.5 points per drive, you are among the elite, I think Seattle has something close to that and are ranked 5th overall.

    So two games, two scores of 21 points, two dramatically different performances. Points are not all that matters folks. One means you got spanked. The other means you got the ball back to your offense consistently. 

    What they did with it from there is their bag. 

    Just tired of hearing that yardage and 3rd down conversion doesn't matter, because they track the stats for a reason. They do matter ... they tell you the story of the game. 

    And FWIW, New England's offense scored 2.15 ppd in that game against NY. That would be good enough to notch 9th in the NFL overall, whereas the defense allowing 2.65 would be 32nd.

    The offense, in that game, greatly outperformed the defense. 

    And yards do matter, because they feed right into this stat .... which matters. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course, you are correct, as anybody who knows this game or isn't suffering from incurable homerism would readily admit.

    [/QUOTE]

    And of course if NE won only scoring 21 points by gutting the clock and pounding it out, these people would dub it "dominant" and talk about how "pink hats" don't understand modern scores. But when that is done to NEs mediocre defense, they only look at the score, and say 21 points allowed is respectable in modern rules. 

    It's not when the other team consumes 40 minutes and scores it in 8 drives like the Giants, Steelers, etc, have done the past few seasons. It's just as bad as giving up 35 points because it asks the offense to be as efficient as that ... in a shorter span.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pass D still pathetic

    If 21 points in 7 drives is bad, how much worse is 17 points on 7 drives? Or 14 points...

     

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