Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to pcmIV's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I just looked quickly at everyone picked in the 2nd round after Wilson.  Wth is the OP talking about.  I don't even believe in these woulda coulda shouldas, but no one on the list I looked at seems to be some huge impact player thus far.

    [/QUOTE]

    I've noticed that a lot of fans really overestimate what you can realistically expect from a second round pick.  Relatively few Pro Bowl quality players are picked in the second.  Most are either average starters or good back-ups, though a number end up being nothing more than roster filler.  The idea that if a second round pick doesn't turn out to be an "impact" player, the pick was a bust  has no basis in reality.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    I just don't see why we didn't draft all the best guys and not draft any busts??? It is obvious.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    I posted last year when we were getting redy for the draft, that something like ony 2 DB's drafted in the second round since 03 have made a pro-bowl. One of them was some guy on the Jets that I've never heard of and I can't remeber the other. These aren't exact numbers because I have a terrible memory but I know its something like this. Just saying that good DB's hardly ever come from the second round. 

    This Solder remark is a F-ing joke. Tom Brady has continualy gained faith in Solder as hes no longer looking over his Shoulder. We have two very good tackles, just have to keep Sea-Bass healthy.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

         Enough from you homers!! Typical babble from charter members of the Ostrich Society, TrueChamp and Prolate, above. Lets see now, according to Prolate, 2nd round choices are no big deal. Well, lets just examine the past three years, shall we?:

    I. 2011: The Pats had two second rounders, the 33rd and 56th overall selections overall. They used them to select CB Ras-I Dowling, and RB Shane Vereen, respectively. Other players that they could have had were:

    1.) DE Jabaal Sheard, 37th overall. But, who needs a pass-rusher, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Akeem Ayers: 39th overall. Huge LB, just like BB likes them. A tackling machine. But, there's no place for a guy like this in the NFL, right, Prolate?

    3.) LB Bruce Carter: 40th overall. Perhaps the fastest OLB in the game. Great in coverage. But, who needs LBs who can cover, right, Prolate?

    4.) DE Brooks Reed: 42nd overall. DE/OLB is the Clay Matthews mold, who can rush the passer. But, who needs pass-rushers, right, Prolate?

    5.) S Rahim Moore: 45th overall pick by the Denver Broncos. But, who needs a reliable safety. Right, Prolate?

    6.) WR Torrey Smith: 58th overall pick of Baltimore Ravens. One of the more feared deep threat WRs in the game. But, who needs a WR who ccan stretch the field, right, Prolate?

    7.) OT Marcus Gilbert: 63rd overall pick of Pittsburgh Steelers. Starting tackle on a contending team. But, who needs depth at OT, right, Prolate?

    8.) WR Randall Cobb: 64th overall pick of the Green Bay Packers. Deep threat WR, who is also effective in the slot. In addition, Cobb is a dangerous kick returner. But, who needs players like this, right, Prolate?

    II. 2010: The Pats struck gold with Rob Gronkowski at #42. But, how can this be? I thought that 2nd rounders weren't such a big deal, right, Prolate? Pats also selected DE/LB Jermaine Cunningham at #53, and rugged ILB Brandon Spikes at #62. Some think that Spikes is one of the top run-stuffing ILBs in the game. But, how can this be, when he's just a no big deal 2nd rounder, right, Prolate??

    1.) DE Carlos Dunlap: 54th overall pick has developed into an excellent pass-rusher. Nagging injuries are the only thing that has stood in his way from being a double-digit sack man. But, who needs guys who can get to the QB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Sean Lee: 55th overall pick of the Dallas Cowboys is a pro-bowl caliber player. But, like Dunlap, injuries have been an obstacle. But, who needs big LBs who can run, right, Prolate?

    III. 2009: The Pats selected S Patrick Chung at #34, DT Ron Brace at #40, CB Darius Butler at #41, and struck gold with pro-bowl caliber RT, Sebastien Vollmer, at #58. But, again, how can it be that the Pats acquired a top notch OT in overrated round two, right, Prolate? 

    1.) LB James Laurinatis: Taken 35th overall, this guy is one of the better young LBs in the game. But, who needs a big, physical, intimidating LB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Rey Maualuga: Taken 38th overall. An intimidator. But, what good are guys like this, right, Prolate?

    3.) S Jarius Byrd: Selected at #42 overall, Byrd is one of the top ball-hawking safeties in the NFL. But, the Patriots certainly don't need a playmaking safety, right, Prolate?

    4.) C/OG  Max Unger: Selected 49th overall by Seattle. Solid starter, and versatile interior player. But, who needs a quality C/OG, right, Prolate?

    5.) OG Andy Levitre: Picked by Buffalo at #51...this guy is solid. But, who needs good OGs who are capable pass-blockers and run blockers, right, Prolate?

    6.) RB LeSean McCoy: Picked by Philly at #53, McCoy is one of the best, most versatile RBs in the league. But, who can use a guy like this, right, Prolate?

    7.) S William Moore: Selected 55th overall by Atlanta, Moore has developed into one of the best safeties in the game. But, he's a dime a dozen, right, Prolate?    

         Why can't you homers admit that the Pats aren't perfect, and have made, and are making their fair share of mistakes? What's worse is an attempt to cover this up by claiming that second rounders aren't such a big deal. The Prolate post above was absurd.

         But my friends...you be the judge.  

     

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    Prolate said "No good players ever come from the second round", right?  That's what he said, I mean any reasonable person would interpret that to be what he said.  Nobody would take something reasonable that he said, pretend to be obtuse and twist his words because that would be dishonest. 

     

    Great list of mediocre players by the way, Half those guys aren't even as good as Wilson, and he's not that good.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    I can't apologize for being a homer when I happen to root for the team that has won more games in a 12 year period then any team in NFL history.

    We don't need a GM, we don't need a DC(BB is the real DC) and we no longer need an O.C. We have a very talented team with the best QB in the game. I think BB has had some trouble re-building his defense but he has young talented players and I think it is headed in the right direction.

    The offense under McDaniels is committed to a balanced attack which will make us more difficult to defend against come post season.

    I think this is the best "team" we have had in a long time.

    I disagree with anybody who thinks this team needs "big changes" or whatever else.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maine12. Show maine12's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

         Enough from you homers!! Typical babble from charter members of the Ostrych Society, TrueChamp and Prolate, above. Lets see now, according to Prolate, 2nd round choices are no big deal. Well, lets just examine the past three years, shall we?:

    I. 2011: The Pats had two second rounders, the 33rd and 56th overall selections overall. They used them to select CB Ras-I Dowling, and RB Shane Vereen, respectively. Other players that they could have had were:

    1.) DE Jabaal Sheard, 37th overall. But, who needs a pass-rusher, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Akeem Ayers: 39th overall. Huge LB, just like BB likes them. A tackling machine. But, there's no place for a guy like this in the NFL, right, Prolate?

    3.) LB Bruce Carter: 40th overall. Perhaps the fastest OLB in the game. Great in coverage. But, who needs LBs who can cover, right, Prolate?

    4.) DE Brooks Reed: 42nd overall. DE/OLB is the Clay Matthews mold, who can rush the passer. But, who needs pass-rushers, right, Prolate?

    5.) S Rahim Moore: 45th overall pick by the Denver Broncos. But, who needs a reliable safety. Right, Prolate?

    6.) WR Torrey Smith: 58th overall pick of Baltimore Ravens. One of the more feared deep threat WRs in the game. But, who needs a WR who ccan stretch the field, right, Prolate?

    7.) OT Marcus Gilbert: 63rd overall pick of Pittsburgh Steelers. Starting tackle on a contending team. But, who needs depth at OT, right, Prolate?

    8.) WR Randall Cobb: 64th overall pick of the Green Bay Packers. Deep threat WR, who is also effective in the slot. In addition, Cobb is a dangerous kick returner. But, who needs players like this, right, Prolate?

    II. 2010: The Pats struck gold with Rob Gronkowski at #42. But, how can this be? I thought that 2nd rounders weren't such a big deal, right, Prolate? Pats also selected DE/LB Jermaine Cunningham at #53, and rugged ILB Brandon Spikes at #62. Some think that Spikes is one of the top run-stuffing ILBs in the game. But, how can this be, when he's just a no big deal 2nd rounder, right, Prolate??

    1.) DE Carlos Dunlap: 54th overall pick has developed into an excellent pass-rusher. Nagging injuries are the only thing that has stood in his way from being a double-digit sack man. But, who needs guys who can get to the QB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Sean Lee: 55th overall pick of the Dallas Cowboys is a pro-bowl caliber player. But, like Dunlap, injuries have been an obstacle. But, who needs big LBs who can run, right, Prolate?

    III. 2009: The Pats selected S Patrick Chung at #34, DT Ron Brace at #40, CB Darius Butler at #41, and struck gold with pro-bowl caliber RT, Sebastien Vollmer, at #58. But, again, how can it be that the Pats acquired a top notch OT in overrated round two, right, Prolate? 

    1.) LB James Laurinatis: Taken 35th overall, this guy is one of the better young LBs in the game. But, who needs a big, physical, intimidating LB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Rey Maualuga: Taken 38th overall. An intimidator. But, what good are guys like this, right, Prolate?

    3.) S Jarius Byrd: Selected at #42 overall, Byrd is one of the top ball-hawking safeties in the NFL. But, the Patriots certainly don't need a playmaking safety, right, Prolate?

    4.) C/OG  Max Unger: Selected 49th overall by Seattle. Solid starter, and versatile interior player. But, who needs a quality C/OG, right, Prolate?

    5.) OG Andy Levitre: Picked by Buffalo at #51...this guy is solid. But, who needs good OGs who are capable pass-blockers and run blockers, right, Prolate?

    6.) RB LeSean McCoy: Picked by Philly at #53, McCoy is one of the best, most versatile RBs in the league. But, who can use a guy like this, right, Prolate?

    7.) S William Moore: Selected 55th overall by Atlanta, Moore has developed into one of the best safeties in the game. But, he's a dime a dozen, right, Prolate?    

         Why can't you homers admit that the Pats aren't perfect, and have made, and are making their fair share of mistakes? What's worse is an attempt to cover this up by claiming that second rounders aren't such a big deal. The Prolate post above was absurd.

         But my friends...you be the judge.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Im just saying Tavon Wilson is to early to assess in career. But they did make a mistake taking him in the second round as they could have waited a couple more rounds. But in all honestly the Pats really havn't made many other mistakes. Yes you named some players but I could make a list twice as long about players who have done nothing in their NFL careers drafted in the 2nd round. So what people need to understand is that the second round will have many more misses than hits. One third of players in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft are not even in the NFL anymore. Thats a fact that just proves thats its hard to get impact players in the second round. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I can't apologize for being a homer when I happen to root for the team that has won more games in a 12 year period then any team in NFL history.

    We don't need a GM, we don't need a DC(BB is the real DC) and we no longer need an O.C. We have a very talented team with the best QB in the game. I think BB has had some trouble re-building his defense but he has young talented players and I think it is headed in the right direction.

    The offense under McDaniels is committed to a balanced attack which will make us more difficult to defend against come post season.

    I think this is the best "team" we have had in a long time.

    I disagree with anybody who thinks this team needs "big changes" or whatever else.

    [/QUOTE]

    The also have the most wins over the last seven seasons and zero championships... that means something is happening to these teams when it counts. Either they are choking in money games or the style of play that piles up regular season victories is less effective in the playoffs (I definitely think it is the latter).

    Would you really be in the playoffs every year and not win or miss them in between Super Bowl victories?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I can't apologize for being a homer when I happen to root for the team that has won more games in a 12 year period then any team in NFL history.

    We don't need a GM, we don't need a DC(BB is the real DC) and we no longer need an O.C. We have a very talented team with the best QB in the game. I think BB has had some trouble re-building his defense but he has young talented players and I think it is headed in the right direction.

    The offense under McDaniels is committed to a balanced attack which will make us more difficult to defend against come post season.

    I think this is the best "team" we have had in a long time.

    I disagree with anybody who thinks this team needs "big changes" or whatever else.

    [/QUOTE]

    The also have the most wins over the last seven seasons and zero championships... that means something is happening to these teams when it counts. Either they are choking in money games or the style of play that piles up regular season victories is less effective in the playoffs (I definitely think it is the latter).

    Would you really be in the playoffs every year and not win or miss them in between Super Bowl victories?

    [/QUOTE]


    I definitely agree with you on that part. I think if you are familiar with my position on this team that is exactly what I have been saying. I just don't think that any GM can avoid drafting busts. I also think that BB's complicated defensive scheme makes it tough for rookies to make it and even though I think he is the best coach AND Gm in the lg I don't think he has been very patient with rookies. The again, when your team is winning more then most, why be patient with rookies? We are in the unique position to not really NEED any 1 player to absolutely work out.

    I swear if fans from other teams came on this board and read certain posters opinions of this team and how we "don't have talent" or need "big changes" they would probably throw up all over themselves.

    And to your question, I would obviously choose the latter but I don't think that is a realistic option. Why would a team that can't even make the playoffs suddenly win a SB the next year and then miss the playoffs again? I guess what I'm saying is that you make it sound like a fault that BB's teams always make the post season.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Prolate said "No good players ever come from the second round", right?  That's what he said, I mean any reasonable person would interpret that to be what he said.  Nobody would take something reasonable that he said, pretend to be obtuse and twist his words because that would be dishonest. 

     

    Great list of mediocre players by the way, Half those guys aren't even as good as Wilson, and he's not that good.

         I see we have a new Ostrich Society member! Medocre players? Obviously, you know nothing about the game.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shenanigan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Prolate said "No good players ever come from the second round", right?  That's what he said, I mean any reasonable person would interpret that to be what he said.  Nobody would take something reasonable that he said, pretend to be obtuse and twist his words because that would be dishonest. 

     

    Great list of mediocre players by the way, Half those guys aren't even as good as Wilson, and he's not that good.

         I see we have a new Ostrich Society member! Medocre players? Obviously, you know nothing about the game.

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]

    The entire list has what, one pro bowler.  Even Merriweather made a pro bowl.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

         Enough from you homers!! Typical babble from charter members of the Ostrich Society, TrueChamp and Prolate, above. Lets see now, according to Prolate, 2nd round choices are no big deal. Well, lets just examine the past three years, shall we?:

    I. 2011: The Pats had two second rounders, the 33rd and 56th overall selections overall. They used them to select CB Ras-I Dowling, and RB Shane Vereen, respectively. Other players that they could have had were:

    1.) DE Jabaal Sheard, 37th overall. But, who needs a pass-rusher, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Akeem Ayers: 39th overall. Huge LB, just like BB likes them. A tackling machine. But, there's no place for a guy like this in the NFL, right, Prolate?

    3.) LB Bruce Carter: 40th overall. Perhaps the fastest OLB in the game. Great in coverage. But, who needs LBs who can cover, right, Prolate?

    4.) DE Brooks Reed: 42nd overall. DE/OLB is the Clay Matthews mold, who can rush the passer. But, who needs pass-rushers, right, Prolate?

    5.) S Rahim Moore: 45th overall pick by the Denver Broncos. But, who needs a reliable safety. Right, Prolate?

    6.) WR Torrey Smith: 58th overall pick of Baltimore Ravens. One of the more feared deep threat WRs in the game. But, who needs a WR who ccan stretch the field, right, Prolate?

    7.) OT Marcus Gilbert: 63rd overall pick of Pittsburgh Steelers. Starting tackle on a contending team. But, who needs depth at OT, right, Prolate?

    8.) WR Randall Cobb: 64th overall pick of the Green Bay Packers. Deep threat WR, who is also effective in the slot. In addition, Cobb is a dangerous kick returner. But, who needs players like this, right, Prolate?

    II. 2010: The Pats struck gold with Rob Gronkowski at #42. But, how can this be? I thought that 2nd rounders weren't such a big deal, right, Prolate? Pats also selected DE/LB Jermaine Cunningham at #53, and rugged ILB Brandon Spikes at #62. Some think that Spikes is one of the top run-stuffing ILBs in the game. But, how can this be, when he's just a no big deal 2nd rounder, right, Prolate??

    1.) DE Carlos Dunlap: 54th overall pick has developed into an excellent pass-rusher. Nagging injuries are the only thing that has stood in his way from being a double-digit sack man. But, who needs guys who can get to the QB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Sean Lee: 55th overall pick of the Dallas Cowboys is a pro-bowl caliber player. But, like Dunlap, injuries have been an obstacle. But, who needs big LBs who can run, right, Prolate?

    III. 2009: The Pats selected S Patrick Chung at #34, DT Ron Brace at #40, CB Darius Butler at #41, and struck gold with pro-bowl caliber RT, Sebastien Vollmer, at #58. But, again, how can it be that the Pats acquired a top notch OT in overrated round two, right, Prolate? 

    1.) LB James Laurinatis: Taken 35th overall, this guy is one of the better young LBs in the game. But, who needs a big, physical, intimidating LB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Rey Maualuga: Taken 38th overall. An intimidator. But, what good are guys like this, right, Prolate?

    3.) S Jarius Byrd: Selected at #42 overall, Byrd is one of the top ball-hawking safeties in the NFL. But, the Patriots certainly don't need a playmaking safety, right, Prolate?

    4.) C/OG  Max Unger: Selected 49th overall by Seattle. Solid starter, and versatile interior player. But, who needs a quality C/OG, right, Prolate?

    5.) OG Andy Levitre: Picked by Buffalo at #51...this guy is solid. But, who needs good OGs who are capable pass-blockers and run blockers, right, Prolate?

    6.) RB LeSean McCoy: Picked by Philly at #53, McCoy is one of the best, most versatile RBs in the league. But, who can use a guy like this, right, Prolate?

    7.) S William Moore: Selected 55th overall by Atlanta, Moore has developed into one of the best safeties in the game. But, he's a dime a dozen, right, Prolate?    

         Why can't you homers admit that the Pats aren't perfect, and have made, and are making their fair share of mistakes? What's worse is an attempt to cover this up by claiming that second rounders aren't such a big deal. The Prolate post above was absurd.

         But my friends...you be the judge.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You just proved my point.  Out of the 96 players chosen in the second round over those three drafts, you found 17 (plus three or four of the Pats second rounders) who are good starting quality players or good back-ups.  I think I said that's what you realistically hope to get in the second round.  If you're lucky you might land an overlooked Pro Bowl quality player, but for the most part, you're doing well to get guys who can start or back-up at a reasonable level. You also will end up with a number of roster fillers and a few outright busts.

    You proved my point exactly. Thanks.  The second round simply isn't loaded with impact players.  There are a few, but they are a minority of those drafted in that round. 

    You'll note as well, that for all the whining you do about BB's crappy drafting, from your list, the Pats are looking pretty good in the second round. 

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Another absolutely ridiculous knee jerk based thread.  Ugh.

    [/QUOTE]

    I know like the knee jerk threads this guy starts every time Brady throws an incomplete pass ... oh wait

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mgraham. Show mgraham's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

         Enough from you homers!! Typical babble from charter members of the Ostrich Society, TrueChamp and Prolate, above. Lets see now, according to Prolate, 2nd round choices are no big deal. Well, lets just examine the past three years, shall we?:

    I. 2011: The Pats had two second rounders, the 33rd and 56th overall selections overall. They used them to select CB Ras-I Dowling, and RB Shane Vereen, respectively. Other players that they could have had were:

    1.) DE Jabaal Sheard, 37th overall. But, who needs a pass-rusher, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Akeem Ayers: 39th overall. Huge LB, just like BB likes them. A tackling machine. But, there's no place for a guy like this in the NFL, right, Prolate?

    3.) LB Bruce Carter: 40th overall. Perhaps the fastest OLB in the game. Great in coverage. But, who needs LBs who can cover, right, Prolate?

    4.) DE Brooks Reed: 42nd overall. DE/OLB is the Clay Matthews mold, who can rush the passer. But, who needs pass-rushers, right, Prolate?

    5.) S Rahim Moore: 45th overall pick by the Denver Broncos. But, who needs a reliable safety. Right, Prolate?

    6.) WR Torrey Smith: 58th overall pick of Baltimore Ravens. One of the more feared deep threat WRs in the game. But, who needs a WR who ccan stretch the field, right, Prolate?

    7.) OT Marcus Gilbert: 63rd overall pick of Pittsburgh Steelers. Starting tackle on a contending team. But, who needs depth at OT, right, Prolate?

    8.) WR Randall Cobb: 64th overall pick of the Green Bay Packers. Deep threat WR, who is also effective in the slot. In addition, Cobb is a dangerous kick returner. But, who needs players like this, right, Prolate?

    II. 2010: The Pats struck gold with Rob Gronkowski at #42. But, how can this be? I thought that 2nd rounders weren't such a big deal, right, Prolate? Pats also selected DE/LB Jermaine Cunningham at #53, and rugged ILB Brandon Spikes at #62. Some think that Spikes is one of the top run-stuffing ILBs in the game. But, how can this be, when he's just a no big deal 2nd rounder, right, Prolate??

    1.) DE Carlos Dunlap: 54th overall pick has developed into an excellent pass-rusher. Nagging injuries are the only thing that has stood in his way from being a double-digit sack man. But, who needs guys who can get to the QB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Sean Lee: 55th overall pick of the Dallas Cowboys is a pro-bowl caliber player. But, like Dunlap, injuries have been an obstacle. But, who needs big LBs who can run, right, Prolate?

    III. 2009: The Pats selected S Patrick Chung at #34, DT Ron Brace at #40, CB Darius Butler at #41, and struck gold with pro-bowl caliber RT, Sebastien Vollmer, at #58. But, again, how can it be that the Pats acquired a top notch OT in overrated round two, right, Prolate? 

    1.) LB James Laurinatis: Taken 35th overall, this guy is one of the better young LBs in the game. But, who needs a big, physical, intimidating LB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Rey Maualuga: Taken 38th overall. An intimidator. But, what good are guys like this, right, Prolate?

    3.) S Jarius Byrd: Selected at #42 overall, Byrd is one of the top ball-hawking safeties in the NFL. But, the Patriots certainly don't need a playmaking safety, right, Prolate?

    4.) C/OG  Max Unger: Selected 49th overall by Seattle. Solid starter, and versatile interior player. But, who needs a quality C/OG, right, Prolate?

    5.) OG Andy Levitre: Picked by Buffalo at #51...this guy is solid. But, who needs good OGs who are capable pass-blockers and run blockers, right, Prolate?

    6.) RB LeSean McCoy: Picked by Philly at #53, McCoy is one of the best, most versatile RBs in the league. But, who can use a guy like this, right, Prolate?

    7.) S William Moore: Selected 55th overall by Atlanta, Moore has developed into one of the best safeties in the game. But, he's a dime a dozen, right, Prolate?    

         Why can't you homers admit that the Pats aren't perfect, and have made, and are making their fair share of mistakes? What's worse is an attempt to cover this up by claiming that second rounders aren't such a big deal. The Prolate post above was absurd.

         But my friends...you be the judge.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You just proved my point.  Out of the 96 players chosen in the second round over those three drafts, you found 17 (plus three or four of the Pats second rounders) who are good starting quality players or good back-ups.  I think I said that's what you realistically hope to get in the second round.  If you're lucky you might land an overlooked Pro Bowl quality player, but for the most part, you're doing well to get guys who can start or back-up at a reasonable level. You also will end up with a number of roster fillers and a few outright busts.

    You proved my point exactly. Thanks.  The second round simply isn't loaded with impact players.  There are a few, but they are a minority of those drafted in that round. 

    You'll note as well, that for all the whining you do about BB's crappy drafting, from your list, the Pats are looking pretty good in the second round. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I was doing the math myself ( 17 out of 96  ..about 18% .. didnt do any heavy division though) and of the list provided how many of the 17 ( albeit having somewhat succes) were drafted before #48? I'll bet that will skew the numbers down somewhat more!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    I would contend that a team can't possess a winning % that Belichick's tenure has and simultaneously be bad in the draft... or anywhere else for that matter.  

    Teams are subject to a loss of resources, coaching, manpower; this is the downside of being successful.

    Not many reload and manage the cap like Belichick, moreover he patches holes to keep his teams afloat during rough times, finding vet, free agents nobody else wants who contribute to winning.  

    For all the moaning about bad 2nd round draft picks, little is said about the undrafted free agents over the years that have made this team and contributed to winning.

    The draft is a crapshoot, whether you're picking your 1st pick or your 6th, that guy could be Tom Brady or Rodney Harrison and the 1st round guy might be can't miss, but when he blows out a hip and can't endure the pain he becomes a bust; it doesn't mean it was a bad pick, it was an unlucky one.

     

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    Solder is just fine thank you. And he will be a great LT before too long.

    Wilson is a rookie and I think he is playing just fine for a rookie. I do not know whether he will be a key piece to a good D but he is smart and coachable and I think he will at least be a decent player if not a solid player ... or better.

    Why in the world would someone think they can judge a guy like Wilson... who is playing for BB as a rookie... after he has played all of nine games in his career????

    It is ironic that these two players were singled out...

    And by the way. take Cunningham. While he is not a special player he has finally gotten to the point where he can play. How is that Golston thing going for NY? Or that Maybin thing? Not to pick on the Jets but those names just came to mind.

    I think the front seven has taken some big steps (the last game notwithstanding!). McCourty would be a decent corner I think if and when the pass rush takes another step up. But in any case he might just be a sound FS. And maybe the new guy will bring some talent to CB.

     

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I hope that I'm wrong, but from what I see so far, Tavon Wilson was a waste of the 48th pick in the draft just as everyone on the planet except BB and crew feared.   

    Maybe he will take a year or two to develop... I believe however, that in a couple of years, Tavon will no longer be with the team or possibly just a high-pick special teams player.  

    The truth is that the talent still available at #48 could be helping us at multiple positions right now more than Wilson, who again seems to be over-rated and would have been available much later in the draft.    

    Solder also is not performing as a #17 at this point and I am concerned about his sustainable health.  But at least we got Chandler and Hightower right. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Solder has played much better than Hightower. How can you say we got Hightower right and Solder wrong. I am yet to be impressed with Hightower. Solder has exceeded my expectations after seeing him this preseason

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'd say wrong, Solder is a monster, Wilson has been a tackling machine in limited minutes and will be a fine player once the game slows down and he learns his job completely.

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL, your the Tommy Hienson of Pats fans.  Don't let the facts get in the way.  The guy has been horrible at tackling lately.  As for being a tackling machine:

    30 tackles in 9 games. 10 of those tackles came in the Denver game.  So in 8 other games he has 20 tackles.   That's alittle of 2 tackles a game....thats a tackling machine????

    We won't even mention the horrible defense he played in the Seatlle game and giving up the winning TD...oops i just did.

    It is still to early to judge him, but please don't pump the tires on a guy that has been pretty bad (especially when he is the 48th player taken in the whole draft).

     

     

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Another absolutely ridiculous knee jerk based thread.  Ugh.

    [/QUOTE]


    This coming from the guy that started "The warnings were out people" thread after Wilson made a tackle earlier this season. Remember that one? Even the most blow hard pink hat homers thought you prematurely wet your pants on that one. 

    This guy may of been the biggest reach in the last ten years - people have a right to criticize his play - especially with the way he's been playing. It makes me laugh that you and others take 10 years to figure out that some players were busts (and this guy might not be in that catergory, but he's playing like a 5th round special teamer....the spot he should of been selected).

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

         Enough from you homers!! Typical babble from charter members of the Ostrich Society, TrueChamp and Prolate, above. Lets see now, according to Prolate, 2nd round choices are no big deal. Well, lets just examine the past three years, shall we?:

    I. 2011: The Pats had two second rounders, the 33rd and 56th overall selections overall. They used them to select CB Ras-I Dowling, and RB Shane Vereen, respectively. Other players that they could have had were:

    1.) DE Jabaal Sheard, 37th overall. But, who needs a pass-rusher, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Akeem Ayers: 39th overall. Huge LB, just like BB likes them. A tackling machine. But, there's no place for a guy like this in the NFL, right, Prolate?

    3.) LB Bruce Carter: 40th overall. Perhaps the fastest OLB in the game. Great in coverage. But, who needs LBs who can cover, right, Prolate?

    4.) DE Brooks Reed: 42nd overall. DE/OLB is the Clay Matthews mold, who can rush the passer. But, who needs pass-rushers, right, Prolate?

    5.) S Rahim Moore: 45th overall pick by the Denver Broncos. But, who needs a reliable safety. Right, Prolate?

    6.) WR Torrey Smith: 58th overall pick of Baltimore Ravens. One of the more feared deep threat WRs in the game. But, who needs a WR who ccan stretch the field, right, Prolate?

    7.) OT Marcus Gilbert: 63rd overall pick of Pittsburgh Steelers. Starting tackle on a contending team. But, who needs depth at OT, right, Prolate?

    8.) WR Randall Cobb: 64th overall pick of the Green Bay Packers. Deep threat WR, who is also effective in the slot. In addition, Cobb is a dangerous kick returner. But, who needs players like this, right, Prolate?

    II. 2010: The Pats struck gold with Rob Gronkowski at #42. But, how can this be? I thought that 2nd rounders weren't such a big deal, right, Prolate? Pats also selected DE/LB Jermaine Cunningham at #53, and rugged ILB Brandon Spikes at #62. Some think that Spikes is one of the top run-stuffing ILBs in the game. But, how can this be, when he's just a no big deal 2nd rounder, right, Prolate??

    1.) DE Carlos Dunlap: 54th overall pick has developed into an excellent pass-rusher. Nagging injuries are the only thing that has stood in his way from being a double-digit sack man. But, who needs guys who can get to the QB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Sean Lee: 55th overall pick of the Dallas Cowboys is a pro-bowl caliber player. But, like Dunlap, injuries have been an obstacle. But, who needs big LBs who can run, right, Prolate?

    III. 2009: The Pats selected S Patrick Chung at #34, DT Ron Brace at #40, CB Darius Butler at #41, and struck gold with pro-bowl caliber RT, Sebastien Vollmer, at #58. But, again, how can it be that the Pats acquired a top notch OT in overrated round two, right, Prolate? 

    1.) LB James Laurinatis: Taken 35th overall, this guy is one of the better young LBs in the game. But, who needs a big, physical, intimidating LB, right, Prolate?

    2.) LB Rey Maualuga: Taken 38th overall. An intimidator. But, what good are guys like this, right, Prolate?

    3.) S Jarius Byrd: Selected at #42 overall, Byrd is one of the top ball-hawking safeties in the NFL. But, the Patriots certainly don't need a playmaking safety, right, Prolate?

    4.) C/OG  Max Unger: Selected 49th overall by Seattle. Solid starter, and versatile interior player. But, who needs a quality C/OG, right, Prolate?

    5.) OG Andy Levitre: Picked by Buffalo at #51...this guy is solid. But, who needs good OGs who are capable pass-blockers and run blockers, right, Prolate?

    6.) RB LeSean McCoy: Picked by Philly at #53, McCoy is one of the best, most versatile RBs in the league. But, who can use a guy like this, right, Prolate?

    7.) S William Moore: Selected 55th overall by Atlanta, Moore has developed into one of the best safeties in the game. But, he's a dime a dozen, right, Prolate?    

         Why can't you homers admit that the Pats aren't perfect, and have made, and are making their fair share of mistakes? What's worse is an attempt to cover this up by claiming that second rounders aren't such a big deal. The Prolate post above was absurd.

         But my friends...you be the judge.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Here's the thing...some people around here honest god think that just because a guy is "starting" on this team, it means he's a good player. When in actuality they are starting because they have nothing better to replace them. I swear to god some of our "starters" would have to literally drop their pants and take a steamy dump right on our logo while receivers ran by for touchdowns before some people would consider them bad players. Even then they would say, "well the guy obviously is very mindfull of his fiber intake, you troll!!!!".

    Five years from now when guys like Arrington and Chung are managers at taco bell, maybe then people would admit they weren't good players, but I doubt it. It's not like you can't be a fan and be critical of some of the players they select - I guarantee you Belichick isn't reading this board and crying at night...neither is Chung.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    In response to themightypatriots' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    +1000 on the picture Mighty. Hilarious. 

    I will say ... boards only exist so people can a.) blow steam about what their should do, and then b.) whinge about what they did not. 

    C'est la vie. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pat Draft Blunder Revisited

    Can we give Wilson a hot minute?? At this point, I almost assume any DB NE drafts will eventually turn out bad, but the guy has been suited for 9 games. 9 games!?!?

    H3!! I would be more suspicious if he looked real good. I mean look how good Butler and DMC looked before they regressed.

     
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