PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : Are you a PSU grad? This is why I don't like talking college football with fans who are beyond passionate with their teams. They can't really see straight sometimes. I readily admit I don't watch PSU games because they are a flat out boring offensive program. Paterno was nothing more than just a figurehead there now, for YEARS. The game passed him by. He's a classic case of someone who holds on way too long trying to chase past glories, enabled by people who are afraid to manage.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    You are changing the subject.  My original objection was to your claim that the team has underachieved to the point that their players at most positions "blow". I agree they have underachieved, but I don't think it's as bad as you think. Whether or not he is a figurehead has nothing to do with an analysis of the performance of the program.
     
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    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! :The GJ testimony provides pretty damning evidence against a number of people, not just Sandusky. 
    Posted by UD6


    You're right.  I don't think Paterno is on that list though.  There isn't enough evidence.  I will be happy to change my opinion if new evidence is brought to light, but all I've seen is things along the lines of "he had to know" or "there's a rumor that he fired Sandusky in 1999 because he knew" etc.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    They should hire Jim Caldwell (once he's fired in Indy) as a replacement for Joe Pa, he'll fit in well with the PSU culture of not saying anything... literally.
     
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    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    my point was that your own language indicates you don't know the facts- so why move so quickly to punish paterno? you and people like you are the reason we shouldnt have the death penalty In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! :
    Posted by patthepatriot666


    Devil, have you had frequent legal trouble or are you a trial lawyer? 

    I am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours, and I have a heckuvalot of circumstantial evidence available to back up mine. 

    That you wish to believe that Paterno, Mr. Penn State football himself, was unaware of the behavior of one of his top 2 lieutenants is your choice.  But there was a 98 police report, a 2000 witness report, and a 2002 witness report for which Paterno testified.  

    Even after that, the guy was still allowed access and ran camps on university property and brought these kids to football related events. 

    I've got feel no remorse for paterno losing his job over this, particularly after the self-serving press release before his firing.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : If you don't think every publication in America calling for his dismissal and ignoring the available evidence to claim beyond a doubt that he knew what was going on (and is therefore morally culpable) didn't have a role in his dismissal we will just have to agree to disagree.
    Posted by pcmIV


    I think you may be doing what you accuse the rest of us of doing.  There is evidence that the asst coach told paterno he saw sandusky engaged in a sexual act.  That means Paterno knew what was going on. 

    Regardless of how it was mishandled after that fact, Paterno in his position of greatest power could have demanded that Sandusky not be allowed back on campus and at least not at football events.  Sandusky was a part of both. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : You're right.  I don't think Paterno is on that list though.  There isn't enough evidence.  I will be happy to change my opinion if new evidence is brought to light, but all I've seen is things along the lines of "he had to know" or "there's a rumor that he fired Sandusky in 1999 because he knew" etc.
    Posted by pcmIV


    It does say that he was the first person who heard the witness's description of what he saw in the shower. Any person with any sense of moral compass at all who heard that would have loaded the guy into a car and driven straight to a police station.
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    They should hire Jim Caldwell (once he's fired) as a replacement for Joe Pa, he'll fit in well with the PSU culture of not saying anything... literally.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I've got a problem with this, too. 
     
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    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : I've got a problem with this, too. 
    Posted by UD6


    Which is?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : It does say that he was the first person who heard the witness's description of what he saw in the shower. Any person with any sense of moral compass at all who heard that would have loaded the guy into a car and driven straight to a police station.
    Posted by Evil2012

    Yea, I am not really sure what PCM is getting at.  Paterno testified to the grand jury that he had been told and further reported to the ad what he had been told. 

    PCM - Do you think Paterno did everything he should have based on what is known?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    As a former assistant at PSU, I wonder if Caldwell or any other assistant knew about this behavior.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : I think you may be doing what you accuse the rest of us of doing.  There is evidence that the asst coach told paterno he saw sandusky engaged in a sexual act.  That means Paterno knew what was going on.  Regardless of how it was mishandled after that fact, Paterno in his position of greatest power could have demanded that Sandusky not be allowed back on campus and at least not at football events.  Sandusky was a part of both. 
    Posted by UD6


    Maybe 'heard a slapping sound' and 'saw a boy with his hands against the wall while Sandusky preformed anal sex on him' has a different meaning to him.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : Maybe 'heard a slapping sound' and 'saw a boy with his hands against the wall while Sandusky preformed anal sex on him' has a different meaning to him.
    Posted by Evil2012


    And yet I am the one jumping to conclusions.  I have yet to say Paterno should be jailed.  He should have been fired.
     
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    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : And yet I am the one jumping to conclusions.  I have yet to say Paterno should be jailed.  He should have been fired.
    Posted by UD6


    Banning him from campus. Yeah that's certainly a proper punishment for raping children. Paterno should have gone to the police. Even if he didn't at first he should have when he realized nothing was being done by those above him. He also had the power to threaten the university with going to the police if they continued to try to bury the thing. He did nothing. Have you read the Grand Jury report? The only thing I can credit Paterno with was not lying.

    I never said he should be jailed. I said they all should be taken out and shot.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : I think you may be doing what you accuse the rest of us of doing.  There is evidence that the asst coach told paterno he saw sandusky engaged in a sexual act.  That means Paterno knew what was going on.
    Posted by UD6


    Because testimony from one person is 100% definitive.  If someone came up to you tomorrow and told you that they saw a friend and colleague of yours that you'd known for over 30 years (or the vast majority of your life if you are younger than 30) doing what McQueary claimed would you believe them unconditionally right off the bat?  Sandusky wouldn't even be indicted if that was the only evidence available.  The allegations alone are enough to destroy somebody whether they are guilty or not.  Paterno informed both the head of the police and his superiors and then stayed the hell out of the way.  If he was more "actively involved" and Sandusky was cleared there would be claims of impropriety (Joe pulling the strings to get his friend off the hook).  Unless you can produce actual evidence that he had more of a reason to believe Sandusky was a pedophile than just the encounter with McQueary (which you can't at the moment because nothing of the sort has been made public) I don't see how you can argue he knew for a fact what Sandusky was up to.  He had no way to contact the alleged victim because he didn't see anything himself.

    At this point I don't feel like going on.  This is obviously a controversial subject and I don't expect anyone to change their minds if they don't agree with me from the outset.  However considering this thread was basically 5 pages of ripping Paterno before my long post I figured I'd put an opposing opinion out there.  As I said previously if you want to understand my viewpoint look at what I wrote on page 5.  No point in going back and forth anymore.  It isn't productive.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : Because testimony from one person is 100% definitive.  If someone came up to you tomorrow and told you that they saw a friend and colleague of yours that you'd known for over 30 years (or the vast majority of your life if you are younger than 30) doing what McQueary claimed would you believe them unconditionally right off the bat?  Sandusky wouldn't even be indicted if that was the only evidence available.  The allegations alone are enough to destroy somebody whether they are guilty or not.  Paterno informed both the head of the police and his superiors and then stayed the hell out of the way.  If he was more "actively involved" and Sandusky was cleared there would be claims of impropriety (Joe pulling the strings to get his friend off the hook).  Unless you can produce actual evidence that he had more of a reason to believe Sandusky was a pedophile than just the encounter with McQueary (which you can't at the moment because nothing of the sort has been made public) I don't see how you can argue he knew for a fact what Sandusky was up to.  He had no way to contact the alleged victim because he didn't see anything himself. At this point I don't feel like going on.  This is obviously a controversial subject and I don't expect anyone to change their minds if they don't agree with me from the outset.  However considering this thread was basically 5 pages of ripping Paterno before my long post I figured I'd put an opposing opinion out there.  As I said previously if you want to understand my viewpoint look at what I wrote on page 5.  No point in going back and forth anymore.  It isn't productive.
    Posted by pcmIV


    Maybe because all your pathetic excuses are so easily countered? The thing you seem to be avoiding was that even though it was one guy witnessing it futher investigation is the job of the police and that job cannot be done if no one tells them.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from patthepatriot666. Show patthepatriot666's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    didnt the police have a recorded confession and do nothing
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : Maybe because all your pathetic excuses are so easily countered? The thing you seem to be avoiding was that even though it was one guy witnessing it futher investigation is the job of the police and that job cannot be done if no one tells them.
    Posted by Evil2012


    From the Grand Jury testimony: "Schultz testified that he was called to a meeting with Joe Paterno and Tim Curley, in which Paterno reported "disturbing" and "inappropriate" conduct in the shower by Sandusky upon a young boy, as reported to him by a student or graduate student.  Schultz was present in a subsequent meeting with Curley when the graduate assistant reported the incident in the shower involving Sandusky and the boy"

    And Later:
    "Schultz oversaw the University Police as part of his position"

    Gee it looks like the Police were notified and Schultz dropped the ball which is why he was indicted.  Before you say the University Police are not legit they are the only police force which deals with the campus.  If you call 911 that is who you get.  They are armed/trained officers.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : I've seen your posts. You're way too smart to be this brainwashed. Did you go to PSU? You keep dodging this question, but if you answer it, this thread may end.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I've answered that question multiple times dude.  Look more carefully.  No I did not attend PSU nor did any of my family.

    I am not brainwashed.  Brainwashed would imply I am unwilling to change my position no matter what.  Theories that Paterno knew more or helped cover it up are plausible, but that's all they are.  Theories.  I don't think there is enough evidence to make the claims people are making.  That is all.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : Because testimony from one person is 100% definitive.  If someone came up to you tomorrow and told you that they saw a friend and colleague of yours that you'd known for over 30 years (or the vast majority of your life if you are younger than 30) doing what McQueary claimed would you believe them unconditionally right off the bat?  Sandusky wouldn't even be indicted if that was the only evidence available.  The allegations alone are enough to destroy somebody whether they are guilty or not.  Paterno informed both the head of the police and his superiors and then stayed the hell out of the way.  If he was more "actively involved" and Sandusky was cleared there would be claims of impropriety (Joe pulling the strings to get his friend off the hook).  Unless you can produce actual evidence that he had more of a reason to believe Sandusky was a pedophile than just the encounter with McQueary (which you can't at the moment because nothing of the sort has been made public) I don't see how you can argue he knew for a fact what Sandusky was up to.  He had no way to contact the alleged victim because he didn't see anything himself. At this point I don't feel like going on.  This is obviously a controversial subject and I don't expect anyone to change their minds if they don't agree with me from the outset.  However considering this thread was basically 5 pages of ripping Paterno before my long post I figured I'd put an opposing opinion out there.  As I said previously if you want to understand my viewpoint look at what I wrote on page 5.  No point in going back and forth anymore.  It isn't productive.
    Posted by pcmIV


    Their was a protective svcs investigation against Sandusky in 98.  Do you think Paterno didn't know about this investigation of his 2nd in command?  Sandusky retired the year after that, the same year he was recognized as the top asst in football.  If you want to be a head coach and Sandusky did, you don't quit and take no other job the very year you are recognized as the best.  In 2000 a janitor witness Sandusky engaged with another boy?  I suppose Paterno might not have known about this, but it happened in HIS facility.  His fiefdom.  He was told specifically in 2002, and continued to allow Sandusky and the boys he brought to be around the program. 

    Further the GJ report (which it sounds as if you haven't read), considered the graduate assistant's testimony VERY CREDIBLE.  

    Feel free to bury your head in the sand over this if you wish, but even Paterno has now said he wished he did more.  I do too. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!! : Devil, have you had frequent legal trouble or are you a trial lawyer?  I am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours, and I have a heckuvalot of circumstantial evidence available to back up mine.  That you wish to believe that Paterno, Mr. Penn State football himself, was unaware of the behavior of one of his top 2 lieutenants is your choice.  But there was a 98 police report, a 2000 witness report, and a 2002 witness report for which Paterno testified.   Even after that, the guy was still allowed access and ran camps on university property and brought these kids to football related events.  I've got feel no remorse for paterno losing his job over this, particularly after the self-serving press release before his firing.
    Posted by UD6

    You aren't entitled to anything here, boy.  This is a Patriots site.  You are entitled to shut up and get out.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!

    In Response to Re: PATERNO ( The FRAUD ) FIRED!!!:
    didnt the police have a recorded confession and do nothing
    Posted by patthepatriot666


    How and why the rest of the university chose to cover up this issue doesn't concern me as it regards paterno. 

    There's good enough reason to believe that Paterno knew of 2 incidents and possibly a third and yet he still gave the guy access to his program and bringing these kids he was molesting around. 

    Lets not paint paterno as a pawn.  The guy was the most powerful person at that university.  If he wanted something to happen, particularly as it related to athletics or football more specifically, he would have done that.
     
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