Patrick Chung

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    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
         Here's an article on Chung: http://www.nesn.com/2010/04/patrick-chung-on-a-mission-in-patriots-secondary.html
    Posted by TexasPat3

    thats a great article, he didnt do the best in preseason, but comon now, give the kid a chance, he would be a great complement to have, with meriweather being the big playmaker and chung being the brick wall, we have alot to look forward to
     
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    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    I thought Chung flashed some signs of being a playmaker but as a rookie couldn't handle the coverage side of his responsibilities.  He actually was one of the few players that put some pressure on the opposing quarterback once in a while.  So if he can learn the coverages, I think Merriweather and Chung will be a good combo.  Chung did get some penalties during special teams for late hits and I believe hits to the head of the quarterback, he'll have to tone those down but I like his potential to be a playmaker, which our defense desperately needs.
    Posted by HartLeeDykesEuguneChung

    ahahaha i remember that hit!! but was it peyton mannin, or chad hennie? that i dont remember but i remember how hard he rocked him!! chungada is a beast nuf said
     
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    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    In Response to Patrick Chung :      Surely you jest. Chung was awful last year. The guy can't cover.
    Posted by TexasPat3

    Give the kid a break, Texas.

    He's was a rookie playing one of the most technically difficult positions on the field. He has to know every coverage scheme inside-out. It takes a good two years to transition a rookie into an every down safety.
     
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    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    I agree with you both he looked lost in that game in coverage, but he seemed to gain more confidence as the season went on. The guy will hit you, something Sanders has not shown me. Still remember the Super Bowl, and Tyree catching the ball and Rodney fighting him, Sanders not helping out on a floater, had plenty of time to help out, but instead stood there to watch the play, 4 or 5 yards behind. That ended it for me with him.
    Posted by bobbysu
    It was actually Asante Samuel who did not help out. Peter King wrote a little blog about this before and showed the picture of Samuel just standing there a few feet from the play, he could have came in and helped but did not.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    TexasPat,

    In my opinion Chung was one of the best rookie safeties in the league last year, hands down. Do the stats back me up? Yes! If I wanted to take the time to manipulate them, I'm sure I could prove Chung was the best safety to step on the field of play ever! I could just as well prove that he was the worst. If you take into consideration he played for possibly the worst D coordinator the Pats have had in a long time he did pretty well for himself. And his coverage abilities were really no worse than anybody else the Pats threw out there in his place. So he made a couple of mistakes. He's was a ROOKIE. He's supposed to make mistakes. That is a rookie's job, to make mistakes. Othewise why keep any veterans at all?

    Oh, and take David Thomas, Garret Mills and Shawn Crable off your list of draft choices that sucked. David thomas was very good till he got injured, Garret Mills was pretty good till he got injured and they didn't have any room for him anyway and Shawn Crable hasn't even been on the field long enough to tell if he is good, bad or indifferent. That is, of course, unless you feel having a debilitating injury makes you a bust. In that case Gayle Sayers was the biggest bust of all times.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ol44. Show Ol44's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung :
    Posted by TexasPat3

    TexasPat, firstly, I would like to thank you (and many other informative posters)
    for your insight on Patriots football. I live abroad and hardly see any games at all.
    Most of opinions are based on posts from this forum and stories on the net.
    Forgive me for my second hand information.

    I did not read any where in particular that Chung could not cover.
    Our defensive backfield as a whole had problems covering.
    Did Chung have more than others?
    The basic reason was the (lack of) pass rush.
    Inexperience and lack of cohesion (lots of new faces on defense) played its part.
    The bend and not break approach might be outdated after the changes in hitting
    the receivers at the line of scrimmage.
    This year I hope BB (calling the plays on D) uses a lot pressure by blitzing more. He has the personnel in the safeties and DBs as well as the linebackers now.
    The D will be much better this year.
    Harrison did not show any more promise his rookie year than Chung
    (see "Z's" post). I do not believe there is enough evidence to draw conclusions.
    If you have access to coaches' videos (showing the whole field), that show
    Chung' inability to cover than you have a good point. But even then, he could
    turn it around with time/experience (look at the difference between Meriweather's first year and last in cover).

    I agree with you on the lack of production from the OL.
    Brady did not have the time to be very productive against good defenses.
    And the backs did not have the room to run in critical plays.
    I sure hope the new TEs will help with the passing game and the running game.
    Help in the draft for the OL came in the late rounds. I was hoping for earlier help.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chino4858. Show Chino4858's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung :      Based on what?? Why do you think he got so little playing time? The guy can't cover. Didn't you watch the Patriots' games last season?
    Posted by TexasPat3


    He didnt play because he was a Rookie learing the N.E scheme. The potential for Chung is undeniable, he is a hard worker who wants to get better and as previously stated "He loves the game of Football. You want to talk about blown coverge, how about Fairyweather blowing it in N.O last year, he is to trigger happy and inconsistant. Our secondary needs a lot of work but the foundation is there!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung : I am not going to be irrational with a team replacing 5 or 6 Pro Bowl caliber players on D, some of whom are HOF caliber (Harrison, Seymour, Bruschi, etc).
     
    RESPONSE: You say I'm being irrational? Why? Because I dare to criticize some of the poor free agency signing decisions...and call the Pats on the carpet for poor drafts? Do you think that the Patriots have drafted well since 2005? Their failure to replace the players you speak of through the draft speaks volumes.

    This is where I differ from you. I have a brain, you and others, apparently don't.
     
    RESPONSE: If anything, this comment shows that just the opposite is true. I have not personally insulted or attacked you. It is you who choose to be rude. Why is it that people who can't defend they positions shift to name calling?

    This isn't Madden football or fantasy league. It's the cap era NFL where 80% of teams can't even put together back to back winning seasons.
     
    RESPONSE: That didn't stop the Pats til post 2005, when they lost most of their quality scouts and personnel people...and started drafting poorly. 

    The last TWO Colts games, NE DOMINATED Indy. DOminated. At Indy, on the road.
     
    RESPONSE: You can't be serious. The Pats lost to the Colts in 2008, and 2009. A great off-season in 2007, in which the Pats wisely used their draft choices to acquire Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Brandon Meriweather, and a #1 draft choice in 2008, which they used to select Jerod Mayo, was outstanding...and drastically improved the team. But, 2006, 2008-09, have been another story.  

    In 2007, NE faced 12 penalties to Indy's 2.   They were lucky to win that game after such a lopsided series of phantom calls.
     
    RESPONSE: This happens on the road. But I grant you, it especially seems to happen when teams play the Colts. But, the Pats immense talent in 2007 overcame the BS calls.

    In 2008, A Gaffney TD drop lost the game.   That was with Matt Cassel. The NE D allowed 6 FGs in that game, for 18 points.

    RESPONSE: The Patriots lost.Sure...Gaffney's gaff hurt. It happens. Nonetheless, the Pats' lost. Settling for FGs in the redzone did them in.

    I question what games people watch and if they watch the same games I do. In 2009, NE had the lead for the 55 minutes until a phantom PI call on BUtler and and misjudged spot call at the end handed Indy the win.
     
    RESPONSE: Nonetheless, the Pats' lost. They didn't have the talent on defense to stop the Colts...leading to BB's correct, but failed, 4th and 2 decision.

    In successive seasons, they outplayed Indy, and this is with a back up QB and a QB who had missed a whole season. You leave out contexts on purpose and pretend Madden Football is exactly like real life. I don't.
     
    RESPONSE: No...you simply choose to ignore reality. The Patriots, for whatever reasons, lost. They weren't good enough to hold a big lead last year, and weren't able to score TDs instead of FGs in 2008. 

    As for Baltimore, they killed the Pats and deserved to win.  I am not completely surprised, as they were out of gas and got beat by a better team.  Period.
     
    RESPONSE: Agreed.

    It's the first home playoff loss since 1978 in NE and BB/Brady's first at home, EVER. You think winning NFL games is easy, do ya?

    RESPONSE: The question you should be asking is not whether winning playoff games is easy...but what caused the Patriots to decline as a team...and what needs to be done to get them back on track.  

    What have the Colts done except play in an easy division?
     
    RESPONSE: Come now. Other than last year, the AFC South has been a stronger division than the AFC East.

    Tony Ugoh is a bust and has not replaced Tarik Glenn.
     
    RESPONSE: True...But Bill Polian found OT Charlie Johnson, an undrafted free agent, to replace Glenn. While no Walter Jones, Johnson has done a fine job: http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=bio&player_id=386 

    At all. In fact, that O Line was a main reason Indy lost the Super Bowl.
     
    RESPONSE: Nonsense. You are mimicking Bill Polian...who was making excuses for his horse-faced QB, and perhaps sending a smoke-screen to mask his draft intentions. The Dwight Freeney ankle injury prevented Indy from pressuring Drew Brees. This is why Polian wisely selected pass-rusher Jerry Hughes...a Robert Mathis clone...with his first round pick.

         I have to digress here, Isn't it ironic that Polian strived so hard to keep his top players healthy...including giving up a shot at perfection...and yet he was still done in at the end with the Freeney injury? LOL!! 

         If OL was such a problem, why didn't Polian make it a priority in his draft? Furthermore, the Colts OL did a fine job of making running room for  Joe Addai. Perhaps the Colts should have relied more on him?  


    Bill Polian is not replacing potential Hall of Famers like BB has had to do.
     
    RESPONSE: Really? What about RB Edgerrin James, WR Marvin Harrison, former defensive player of the year Bob Sanders, LB Caito June, and LT Tarik Glenn?

    And we'll see just how good each team's drafts have been right now, won't we? Bob Sanders has played in less than 50% of potential games with a huge payout.
     
    RESPONSE: Injuries are part of the game, and can't be helped. Surely you're not saying that Sanders was a bad pick? He's one of the main reasons why the Colts won a SB in 2006 

    Based on ROI/economics alone, that's a borderline bust.
     
    RESPONSE: Sorry...but that's laughable.

    I am so tired of hearing how great Polian is when he has one ring, gets Houston, Jax and even an inconsistent Tenn team every year.

    RESPONSE: And the Patriots played the Jests, the Mr. Fail Fast First led 'Fins, and the Buffalo Jills. Only recently have the Jets and 'Fins bounced back. The Titans won their division in 2008. Jacksonville was a tough playoff out in 2007...beating the Steelers in consecutive weeks in Pittsburgh, and giving the unbeaten Pats all they could handle. Furthermore, the combined record of AFC South teams last year was 38-26, while the combined record of the AFC East teams was 32-32.

    I won't go into his ability to control league rules from his position on the Comp. Committee.

    RESPONSE: I will. The NFL has allowed this obvious conflict of interest to continue for far too long. 

    He's the GM version of Bill Cowher, where Cowher would spit and push players around playing tough guy in the regular season against Cincy and Cleveland 2x per year for 15 years.

    RESPONSE: What are you talking about?!! I can't stand Polian. But I must admit that he is one of, if not the best personnel evaluator in the game.

    Wow!  Indy signs average FAs far more than NE does.   Overall, his drafts aren't any better than BBs.

    RESPONSE: Why don't you go back and compare the Colts' drafts with the Pats' drafts, since 2005? Meanwhile, chew on this: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3204_Belichick_umpteen-uples_down_on_DBs_in_the_draft_.html 

    Posted by russgriswold
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    Answer: The sound a quarterback hears in his head when he gets slammed to the turf by a blitzing safety.


    Question: What is Chung?


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    Answer: The sound a quarterback hears in his head when he gets slammed to the turf by a blitzing safety. Question: What is Chung?
    Posted by p-mike

    It's almost onomatopoetic. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung : It's pretty comical to me you are telling me to look for the cause of it when I know the cause of a non-14-2 or 13-3 season, even last year. The problems are being addressed very nicely, if I don't say so myself.
     
    RESPONSE: That remains to be seen.

    Youre dramatic, sweeping comments are so far off it's not even funny. You cannot replace Pro Bowl caliber players overnight.  You can't do it in the draft nor can you do it in the FA.

    RESPONSE: If you can't rebuild through the draft or through free agency, then how is it done?

    It takes more than a year.
     
    RESPONSE: The Pats rebuilt their team to championship status in 2007 through free agency, and artful use of the draft. They have been reloading/rebuilding on the 2007 team for three years...2008-2010

    BB runs a 3-4.  Caldwell runs a 4-3.  It's a lot easier to build for a 4-3. Case closed.

    RESPONSE: If that's the ccase, why are so many teams going to the 3-4?

    Posted by russgriswold


         Why can't you acknowledge that the poor drafts and free agency decisions, made by the Pats over the past few years, have at least contributed to why their aging or retiring players have not been replaced?    
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from thejoshuatree28. Show thejoshuatree28's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patrick Chung :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTEJust a question for Texas or anyone really put isnt the standard we give them three years before we decide to call a pick a bust or not, or has that changed when it comes to Chung.
     
    RESPONSE: That's what the "talking heads" say. But, you can usually tell pretty quick whether or not a guy has the potential to be a player. I just didn't see any of that from Chung.

    I understand that you wanted Chung to come in and be great, but most of the time, the only true blue chip prospects are top ten to fifteen, not into the second round. Give the guy more of a chance, last year was just a bad year overall. Give him two more years then you can call him a bust if he hasn't improved.

    RESPONSE: Hope you're right. Maybe I am getting a bit frustrated with all the poor 


    My response to your responses is yes, you can tell pretty quickly how a player will turn out, but sometimes you can't. Everybody was in love with Nunn and he looked pretty good, but he didn't turn out. Probably a better example would be Forte (the Chicago RB), he look amazing his first season, and his second not so much, perhaps it was a sophomore slump but maybe it wasn't. there are growing pains coming into the NFL, its a different game than college, rules, plays, schemes. Thats why three years is the SOP when it comes to grading prospects. I do agree many of the draft picks the past couple of years have been flops or at least as good as we thought they would be.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from HartLeeDykesEuguneChung. Show HartLeeDykesEuguneChung's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    As for Chung making an impact as a rookie, let's name so other recent players that didn't play much as rookies but turned into some pretty good players for the Pats:
    Tedy Bruschi
    Ty Warren
    Troy Brown
    Its absolutely foolish and shortsighted to judge a player as "sucking" after just 1 year.  Any rookie who gets on the field at all for the Pats tells me that they have some smarts, ability and potential to really jump in their second year.  Lets judge Chung 1 year from now.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    Answer: The sound a quarterback hears in his head when he gets slammed to the turf by a blitzing safety. Question: What is Chung?
    Posted by p-mike


    I LOVE this post
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    TexasPat,

    I think you are getting frustrated listening to all the "Talking Heads" with no names coming out of the wood work, using "stat magic" to prove that the Pats don't know how to draft, BB doesn't know how to evaluate talent and he doesn't even know how to coach and win without cheating.

    stat magic- the use of arcane stats with no context used to make a mediocre team look like a much better team and which cannot be proven any other way.
     
    Example:

    The Statement: The Lions have won every game they ever played.

    The stat: 1-0

    The nondisclosed context: Against teams from Wash. DC played on all dates that equaled Sept. 27, 2009.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TateGroup. Show TateGroup's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    guys what can u expect? his name is Texaspat, we all know evryone from texas is a dumb hicks who are stubborn as mules, there socially backward and comepletly full of themselves, he is trying to get some attention by disagreeing with everyone and trying to fight a war he cant win
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    guys what can u expect? his name is Texaspat, we all know evryone from texas is a dumb hicks who are stubborn as mules, there socially backward and comepletly full of themselves, he is trying to get some attention by disagreeing with everyone and trying to fight a war he cant win
    Posted by TateGroup


    Right.  No one in Massachusetts is full of themselves. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TateGroup. Show TateGroup's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung : Right.  No one in Massachusetts is full of themselves. 
    Posted by themightypatriotz

    NOPE! lol (X but you have to understnd that its much worse in Texas.. lol
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    guys what can u expect? his name is Texaspat, we all know evryone from texas is a dumb hicks who are stubborn as mules, there socially backward and comepletly full of themselves, he is trying to get some attention by disagreeing with everyone and trying to fight a war he cant win
    Posted by TateGroup


         You must be from NY.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TateGroup. Show TateGroup's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    nope.. born in Cali, raised in Boston, live in Miami
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    [QUOTE]TexasPat, In my opinion Chung was one of the best rookie safeties in the league last year, hands down. Do the stats back me up? Yes! If I wanted to take the time to manipulate them, I'm sure I could prove Chung was the best safety to step on the field of play ever!
     
    RESPONSE: Please manipulate the stats and show me how Chung is so good. Oh...it would take too much time? OK...I see...LOL!!

    I could just as well prove that he was the worst.
     
    RESPONSE: That I'll buy.

    If you take into consideration he played for possibly the worst D coordinator the Pats have had in a long time he did pretty well for himself.
     
    RESPONSE: Here, you may have a point. Pees was a disaster.

    And his coverage abilities were really no worse than anybody else the Pats threw out there in his place. So he made a couple of mistakes. He's was a ROOKIE. He's supposed to make mistakes. That is a rookie's job, to make mistakes.
     
    RESPONSE: I don't think coaches like BB or Bill Parcells would agree with you. But, Cam Cameron, a/k/a Mr. Fail Fast First, would.

    Othewise why keep any veterans at all?
     
    RESPONSE: George Allen's philosophy.

    Oh, and take David Thomas, Garret Mills and Shawn Crable off your list of draft choices that sucked. David thomas was very good till he got injured, Garret Mills was pretty good till he got injured and they didn't have any room for him anyway and Shawn Crable hasn't even been on the field long enough to tell if he is good, bad or indifferent.
     
    RESPONSE: Surely you jest. Thomas was a 3rd round draft choice in 2006. Outside of the one good game that he had in Jacksonville, he did nothing for the Patriots. If a guy is always injured, such as Thomas and Crable, they are worthless. As for Garrett Mills...you can't be serious.

    That is, of course, unless you feel having a debilitating injury makes you a bust.
     
    RESPONSE: Yes, it does. DT Steve Emtman, a one-time high #1 draft choice of the pre-Manning Colts (1992), has been selected by the media as one of the top ten busts of all-time. Emtman had superstar potential. But, because he tore up his knees, he was done. As a result, the Colts got no value for his selection. So, despite the fact that he failed due to injuries, he would have to be qualified as a bust:
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1007161/2/
    index.htm


    In that case, Gayle Sayers was the greatest bust of all times.

    RESPONSE: You can't be serious. Sayers had a relatively short, but brilliant career...while a guy like Eitmann hardly played. Here's a summary of Sayers' short, but great career: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gale_Sayers

         Let me digress for a  moment, and get on my band-box for former Broncos' RB, Terrell Davis, who, like Sayers, had a short, but brilliant career. The guy belongs in the Hall of Fame: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_Davis 


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ol44. Show Ol44's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    guys what can u expect? his name is Texaspat, we all know evryone from texas is a dumb hicks who are stubborn as mules, there socially backward and comepletly full of themselves, he is trying to get some attention by disagreeing with everyone and trying to fight a war he cant win
    Posted by TateGroup


    Although, I disagree with TexasPat's assessment of Chung's first year,
    I feel he has a right to his opinion.
    He defends his opinions in his posts with fairly objective reasoning.
    TexasPat does not resort to personal attacks on those disagreeing with him
    and deserves the same in return.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ShiningWizard. Show ShiningWizard's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    It's hard to take the opinion of some displaced cosmonaut in the land of chicken fried steak seriously. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    In Response to Re: Patrick Chung:
    It's hard to take the opinion of some displaced cosmonaut in the land of chicken fried steak seriously. 
    Posted by ShiningWizard


         Another Yankee fan, I see. It wasn't my fault that Sputnick 29 veered south on me?? LOL!!!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from donk3. Show donk3's posts

    Re: Patrick Chung

    This is the guy that, when he was at Oregon, shut down the Oklahoma State offense virtually by himself.  At the time, OSU was the number one offense in the country.  This kid has a nose for the ball and can play.  Give him a chance.
     
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