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Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to NYC's comment:

    The Pats do need to be accountable for their part in the AH situation. They selected him, they signed him to a big deal, they are responsible for checking people out.

    They simply need to apologize for what they are accountable for (knowing about his background). They screwed up but they are not alone. University of Florida and Urban Meyer screwed up as well.

    It is not the end of the Pats, it is not the end of the Patriot Way. It is simply an invitation for more self knowledge and to decide how differently they are going to go forward in the future. If the Pats are humble,  stay on message about what they are accountable for and what they will do differently in the future, they will win more respect and fans in the long run.



    RESPONSE: 

         Completely disagree. The Patriots have NOTHING to apologize for. The Pats did what every NFL team generally does...uses lower round picks on talented, but troubled players.

         A.H. seemingly behaved himself for two years, worked hard as a player, and was successful. I mean...really...how far do you want to go with this? Should we blame his elementary school teachers for not providing a solid moral and educational foundation for A.H.? Should we blame his guidance counsellor in high school for not picking up on some anti-social elements in A.H.'s personality? Should we blame his high school football coach for turning a blind eye to some wild, over-aggressive behavior from A. H.?

         Other seemingly dead-end kids who, when given support and opportunity, have succeeded in turning their lives around.  Robert Kraft gave A.H. that type of support, and opportunity. Kraft certainly did not become a multi-millionaire by being a poor judge of character, and a fool. He had grown to trust A.H., and rewarded the kid. Unfortunately, Kraft's belief in A.H. was misplaced. In other words, he was fooled (or duped), by A.H..

        Sorry...but A.H. was given the opportunity to succeed, and have a wonderful life, by Bob Kraft and the Patriots. They have absolutely NOTHING to apologize for.

        The only one to blame for the actions of A.H., is A.H. himself.    

     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:



    Sorry TP, but only a fool would keep doing something after the league sends out a memo specifically stating to knock that off, especially when it could be construed as cheating. 

    RESPONSE: Stop it. Nearly every team was disregarding this memo, according to several active coaches at the time, and former coaches, such as Bill Parcells and Jimmy Johnson. NO ONE could have foreseen what ignoring such a memo would lead to. NO ONE knew how heavy-handed Roger Goodell would be on dosciplinary siotuations. What he did to the Patriots for this violation was unprecedented, and way over the top. He acted in this way to appease the NY media, and to stake out his ground as commissioner. The severity of the punishment is what alllowed the media to deduce that taping in the wrong area was such a vile infraction...and it must be cheating. Had Goodell merely leveled a fine, and given warning that a repeat violation would lead to further discipline, the story would never had mushroomed out of control, as it did.

    I don't need any hindsight at all.

    RESPONSE: Nonsense. You're all about hindsight being 20/20. According to you, it was clear that disregarding this memo would lead to the dire consequences that it did. No way you, or anyone else, could have forseen such a development.

    I would say before spygate occurred as I say right now. Cease any activities that are even borderline rules violations (even if every other team in the game is doing them). To do otherwise is simply stupid.

    RESPONSE: YES...NOW THAT WE'VE SEEN WHAT GOODELL DID TO THE PATS for disobeying his memo, to Dallas and Washington for violating the spirit of the salary cap, and to the Saints for Bountygate...YES...teams should be sure not to violate even minor rules. Furthermore, BB should have drafted WR Mike Wallace instead of Brandon Tate. BB should have drafted DB Jarius Byrd, instead of Patrick Chung. The Patriots should have never given Aaron Hernandez that huge contract extension.

         Hindsight is always 20/20.




     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    TP

    No one disagrees that AH is responsible for his own actions but the Pats are responsible for the decisions they make in hiring players. This includes checking them out in detail. AH was involved in a double shooting while at Univ Florida. BB and Urban Meyer are friends and according to the Orlando Sentinel Meyer not only knew about this shooting but was involved in hiring the most influential criminal attorney in Florida, Huntley Johnson to represent the players.

    Furthermore, 17 teams took AH completely off their draft list. Why? Simply for a marijuana violation? That is unlikely. They knew something about his potential for violence is more likely. If the Pats did not have a sense of this, they should have.

    Lastly, I think honesty and humility are always the best policy and the Pats simply need to be humble and honest in this situation. Drafting Hernandez was a risk not worth taking and the Pats need to say they screwed up in taking him.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    I think it is clear that the Pats have tried earnestly to avoid unrepentant thugs. Yet, in recent years that standard has been crumbling a bit because of BB's poor drafting. Because of so many misses on draft day he has absolutely become desperate to field a team that Brady can bring to a SB win before Brady retires.

     

    RESPONSE: Stop it. Just because BB took a chance on Aaron Hernandez with a mid-fourth round pick, and took a guy (Dennard) who they knew had criminal charges pending against him, in the middle of round 7...you have come to this conclusion? Sounds like standard operating procedure for most NFL teams.

     

     

     



    You stop it. BB's history of taking risky players started long before just the AH and Dennard situations. As a matter of fact his choice of such types nearly perfectly coincides with the trend of his inherited stars aging and his poor drafting steadily downgrading the team around Brady. 

     



    RESPONSE: What history?? Please provide a list of the other so-called "risky" players whom BB has drafted over the past decade?

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to NYC's comment:

     

    TP

    No one disagrees that AH is responsible for his own actions but the Pats are responsible for the decisions they make in hiring players. This includes checking them out in detail. AH was involved in a double shooting while at Univ Florida. BB and Urban Meyer are friends and according to the Orlando Sentinel Meyer not only knew about this shooting but was involved in hiring the most influential criminal attorney in Florida, Huntley Johnson to represent the players.

    RESPONSE: How do you know that the Pats' didn't check out AH in detail...and decided to take a chance? Do you really think that AH was the only troubled player in the history of the NFL that a team took a chance on? More 20/20 hindsight. NO ONE  foresaw that AH would turn murderer.

    Furthermore, 17 teams took AH completely off their draft list. Why? Simply for a marijuana violation? That is unlikely. They knew something about his potential for violence is more likely. If the Pats did not have a sense of this, they should have.

    RESPONSE: Where was your outcry when AH was tearing up the league, over the past two years? I'm willing to bet you that all 17 of those teams who allegedly took AH off their draft boards would have signed AH, had he become an unrestricted free agent, at the end of last season. Furthermore, I didn't hear you criticize the Pats when they decided to sign AH to that lucrative extension.

         Again...hindsight is always 20/20.

    Lastly, I think honesty and humility are always the best policy and the Pats simply need to be humble and honest in this situation. Drafting Hernandez was a risk not worth taking and the Pats need to say they screwed up in taking him.

    RESPONSE: Again...where were these whines of yours when AH was working hard as a player, and tearing up the league over the past two years? Now...it's very easy to say that drafting AH was not worth the risk. But, prior to this summer, NO ONE was saying this. Again...hindsight is always 20/20. 

     




     

     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    TP


    The information about AH just became available to the public at large but was available to the NFL via his coach at U Florida, Urban Meyer back in 2010 previous to his draft. I have to assume that Meyer shared the details of the double shooting AH was involved with back in 2007. If not, he should have.

    The point is there needs to be some accountability here. Certainly, by Urban Meyer and UF and consequently by the Pats. Whitewashing the charges against him did not serve him or society. We can't hide from this stuff just because we are Pats fans. Saying we didn't know is not enough. We should have known more based on his history of violence. We can't worry what the media will think, we need to be honest and humble going forward.

    I am quite sure going forward the Pats, the NFL and hopefully the NCAA is going to have tighter proceedures regarding moral, ethical and legal requirements of its players. Allowing thugs to participate helps no one.

     

     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to NYC's comment:

    TP


    The information about AH just became available to the public at large but was available to the NFL via his coach at U Florida, Urban Meyer back in 2010 previous to his draft. I have to assume that Meyer shared the details of the double shooting AH was involved with back in 2007. If not, he should have.

    The point is there needs to be some accountability here. Certainly, by Urban Meyer and UF and consequently by the Pats. Whitewashing the charges against him did not serve him or society. ....



    Be careful what you assume.

    Meyer's interests aren't served by disclosing everything he knows to anyone who asks. His interests are served by avoiding (or managing) disclosure of damaging information. Having his players drafted and going on to success in the NFL helps him in recruiting.

    Having them blacklisted or downgraded hurts him.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    In response to NYC's comment:

     

     

     

    TP


    The information about AH just became available to the public at large but was available to the NFL via his coach at U Florida, Urban Meyer back in 2010 previous to his draft. I have to assume that Meyer shared the details of the double shooting AH was involved with back in 2007. If not, he should have.

    The point is there needs to be some accountability here. Certainly, by Urban Meyer and UF and consequently by the Pats. Whitewashing the charges against him did not serve him or society. ....

     

     



    Be careful what you assume.

     

     

    Meyer's interests aren't served by disclosing everything he knows to anyone who asks. His interests are served by avoiding (or managing) disclosure of damaging information. Having his players drafted and going on to success in the NFL helps him in recruiting.

    Having them blacklisted or downgraded hurts him.

     

     




     

    Unfortunately, you may be right. The arrest record of Meyers players at UF is beyond belief.  When the Lloyd family gets around to filing civil suits after the criminal trial UF and Meyer need to be on the list of defendants. According to the Orlando Sentinel Meyer and Gainesville master attorney, Huntley Johnson were able to squash most of the complaints. If Meyer did not perform ethically and disclose the full scope of AH' s problems he needs to be held accountable legally and financially.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to NYC's comment:

    Unfortunately, you may be right. The arrest record of Meyers players at UF is beyond belief.  When the Lloyd family gets around to filing civil suits after the criminal trial UF and Meyer need to be on the list of defendants. According to the Orlando Sentinel Meyer and Gainesville master attorney, Huntley Johnson were able to squash most of the complaints. If Meyer did not perform ethically and disclose the full scope of AH' s problems he needs to be held accountable legally and financially.



    How on Earth would his college coach be involved?

    But, you are listing possible people to sue, why stop there?

    Mr. Jones lived across the street when Hernandez was a kid.  For his fifth birthday, Mr. Jones gave Hernandez a football.  Get Mr. Jones on list of defendants also.

     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to russgriswold's comment:


    I was told that Peter Chiarelli did not blow the Seguin draft pick. LOL



    That's all you have left, huh Rusty?  You're too afraid to talk football with me because I magnify your stupidty and you're too afraid to go to the B's side and make your comments about the trade because you know you don't know jack about it...and that whole disaster from the Free Agent Frenzy as well.

    Tell us more about how Brady's calling of the shotgun more often than not was a main reason for the team failing.  Also tell us about how it's understandable that the defense gave up game winning drives...because it was too warm in the dome.  Also tell us how Hernandez didn't do it.  Also tell us about how Belichick broke up the failed offense of Welker and Moss.

    Oh, that's right.  All of those statements are junk.  THAT's why you don't talk football with me.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to NYC's comment:

     

    TP


    The information about AH just became available to the public at large but was available to the NFL via his coach at U Florida, Urban Meyer back in 2010 previous to his draft. I have to assume that Meyer shared the details of the double shooting AH was involved with back in 2007. If not, he should have.

    RESPONSE: So..."you have to assume", do you? Why? You have no idea what the Patriots knew about AH when they spent a mid-4th round pick to take him. Furthermore, you have no idea what the facts were in that Florida shooting, which allegedly involved AH. What we do know is that AH was not charged, criminally. That there was a civil lawsuit filed by the alleged shooting victim...that was initially dropped, and has since has been reinstated. You have no idea as to what actually happened in that case, who was the aggressor(s), or what kind of a person the alleged victim in that case is.

         The truth of the matter is that you are grossly engaging in speculation here on what should have been known, and what should have been done.    

    The point is there needs to be some accountability here.

    RESPONSE: There will be accountability, when AH is tried by a jury. But, blaming the Patriots for his unbelievable, unforseeable acts of murder is nothing more than a ridiculous exercise of hindsight. Where does your quest for "accountability" end? Should we also blame AH's elementary school teachers, for failing to teach AH moral and ethical values? Should we hold AH's high school coach accountable, for failing to act while AH presumably (now I'm sounding like you) was running wild? Should we blame local law enforcement for failing to be more vigilant? Should we blame AH's neighbors for not reporting AH to the police? Should we blame AH's guidance counsellor for not recommending riddelin? RIDICULOUS!!!   

    Certainly, by Urban Meyer and UF and consequently by the Pats. Whitewashing the charges against him did not serve him or society. We can't hide from this stuff just because we are Pats fans. Saying we didn't know is not enough. We should have known more based on his history of violence. We can't worry what the media will think, we need to be honest and humble going forward.

    RESPONSE: Again, you're engaging in gross speculation. You have no idea of what really happened. Even if AH was given preferrential treatment, who could have forseen that it would lead to murder?

    I am quite sure going forward the Pats, the NFL and hopefully the NCAA is going to have tighter proceedures regarding moral, ethical and legal requirements of its players. Allowing thugs to participate helps no one.

    RESPONSE: What "tighter procedures" do you recommend?  Do you really think that AH is the only "thug" type playing in the NFL? The league is, and has always been littered with them...from league poster boy Ray Lewis, to Bernard Pollard, to Ben Roethlisberger, to Antonio Cromartie, to AH, to PacMan Jones...to the great Michael Irvin, and the greater Lawrence Taylor. Chess advocates and those studying for the priesthood are not found in NFL locker rooms.  

     




     

     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

     

     I don't think anyone should expect the Patriots to predict the future.  If you want to criticize them for their drafting, however, I think you can legitimately question whether in an attempt to find "value" they take on too much risk.  That would mean drafting guys who slip for many reasons that increase the risk they won't be able to contribute.  Those reasons could be character (Hernandez, Dennard), but also injury (Gronk, Dowling), having played for a smaller school (Butler), having unconventional skills (T. Wilson), etc.  Hernandez is an example of the Pats' value strategy in drafting (and also free agency) and you can legitimately question whether that strategy is producing enough quality talent that can stay on the field. 

     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

     I don't think anyone should expect the Patriots to predict the future.  If you want to criticize them for their drafting, however, I think you can legitimately question whether in an attempt to find "value" they take on too much risk.  That would mean drafting guys who slip for many reasons that increase the risk they won't be able to contribute.  Those reasons could be character (Hernandez, Dennard), but also injury (Gronk, Dowling), having played for a smaller school (Butler), having unconventional skills (T. Wilson), etc.  Hernandez is an example of the Pats' value strategy in drafting (and also free agency) and you can legitimately question whether that strategy is producing enough quality talent that can stay on the field. 



         You can add CB Terrence Wheatley (62nd overall pick in 2008...wrist injury) and WR Brandon Tate (83rd overall pick, 2009...knee injury, and brain injury. I mean...smoking marijuana right before the start of The Combine??) to your list, above.

     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    Play Ball, Win Games, Take it all!!!

     

    who cares what haters have to say.

     
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    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!

    So the pats have created a standard of character and discipline on their teams.  The Krafts helped fuel it, and the media accepted and perpetuated it.  No one here refused it.  Now that the shoe is on the other foot, some here are indignant about the organization being called out. 

    UD

    Some people here are very self righteous and arrogant. They insist the sun rises and sets around the perfection of the Pats. I myself love the self sacrificing attitude of many Pats players (Mike Vrabel, Troy Brown, Tom Brady). Low draft picks that worked their way up doing anything for the team and delivered big when they were called upon. This is something we can all love. What the AH situation shows is that the Pats are completely human and can screw up big time. That the Patriot Way is fallible. That ignoring the reality of a persons past in favor of "value" can backfire badly at times. The Pats and some of their fans have exuded an arrogance that the rest of the league found distasteful. Now that the Pats are on the same level as others it is hard for these to accept it.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxrockursox. Show soxrockursox's posts

    Re: Patriot Hating Media Jerks at it Again!


    Wait a minute rusty did I see that right ,When you lived in chicago the media propped up the Pats?So the media isnt anti-Pats.

     
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