Patriot Pass Rush?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush? : TBC in meaningful games has disappeared just like anyone else - lets look back at 2009 season - Indy 0 sacks, Saints 0 sacks, Falcons 0 sacks, Baltimore 0 sacks, against good teams our pass rush is pathetic.
    Posted by Boston-kyle


    Sacks are great, but putting pressure on the QB is important too.  What about hurries, QB hits, etc?  I think Banta-Cain was a little better than his sack stats may say he was. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    I think the problem is not just the pass rush but it is the lack of typical Patriot Lb's on the squad. We have little versatility especially with the OLB's. When TBC and Burgess are in the game the Peyton Mannings of the NFL know the rush is coming and how to correctly audible or counter that measure. With the rapid development of QB's in today's game it was a real problem last year and may be a problem again this year.

    Particularly with TBC and Burgess they have little run D impact. They are typical situational football players in a BB defense. The problem is we needed them to be multi down players last year and our run D down the stretch suffered from it. Yes we need a more consistent pass rush but what we really need is more consistent play from the LB core all together.

    Lets hope the young players can pick up a complicated defensive scheme a little quicker then usual. We will need Spikes/Cunningham/Mckenzie to have an impact on this unit.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

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    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    Our Offensive dominance will be our best Defense this year.  Think of all the games we lost, last year, simply because we couldn't get the job done once getting into the opponents Red Zone.  Great Offence + Good Defense (doesn't need to be great) = Super Bowl.

    Posted by Tcal2

    superbowl yes, lombardi trophy no... don't believe me ask Payton manning. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from akius. Show akius's posts

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    TBC got 5 of his 10 sacks against Buffalo, which means nothing. take away those two games against the worst offensive line in generations and you have a mediocre player, who SHOULD be only situational not a starter.

    Posted by Boston-kyle

    Good point but he isn't mediocre 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    they are saying burgess is contemplating retirement...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boston-kyle. Show Boston-kyle's posts

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    Burgess is retiring... we have officially bent over in a state max prision...our pass rush is...

     
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

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    We don't need no stinking pass rush.


    On one play, Gronkowski ran to the left side and with his size (6-6, 265) easily shaded a defender for a touchdown catch. Not long after that, Hernandez came down with a difficult touchdown grab on the right side, leaping into the air and wrestling the ball away from a defender as both were in position to make the play.     Mike Reiss
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

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    After watching tape of the Ravens running the Pats over there won't be a need for pass rush... teams are going run the ball down the Pats throats until they stop it.
    Posted by HRK103


    Okay, I know I'm going to get grief over this statement, but didn't Wilfork have an ankle problem at that time.  I realize using an injury is a weak excuse for the run D, but the NT position in the 3-4 is kinda important against the run...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

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    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    Our Offensive dominance will be our best Defense this year.  Think of all the games we lost, last year, simply because we couldn't get the job done once getting into the opponents Red Zone.  Great Offence + Good Defense (doesn't need to be great) = Super Bowl.
    Posted by Tcal2



    What's interesting about your comment is that it's exactly what I thought back in 2007 when we were scoring at will (until later in the season when certain teams started figuring us out). The problem we had some serious problems in the red zone offensively and defensively. Offensively, were our problems related to the lack of a run game? I dunno. Was our Red zone D problems due to the lack of a decent pass rush? I dunno.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    They drafted Cunningham so you can't say they didn't address the pass rush during the draft.  As for before and after, they both really mean free agency.  I'm not sure what great pass rushers were available.  Dummervil, but he really only has the size to be used in 4-3 packages.  They grabbed up TBC again, who is a good situational pass rusher.  Ninkovich could improve, there's some other less likely possibilities on the roster.

    But really, there is no right now answer for the pass rush.  Cunningham is probably going to be as much a liability as he is an improvement as a rookie.  Could see some playing time but I don't expect much.  TBC will be no change, which is OK.  Ninkovich probably gets most of AT's play time which doesn't sound like a huge improvement but probably a small one. 

    I think the D-line plays a big part in the overall pass rush ability and it is an unknown as well.  I would give them a good chance for improvement, but not much improvement.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

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    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush? : I'm with you Wiz. It doesn't matter How , Just How Many! Sacks are Pretty freakin hard to get in this league and if I'm an Allen fan I can't think of another team besides Green Bay that I'd want him to tee off on More. TBC Has a Knack for the sack. I like him.
    Posted by ewhite1065


    I would be pretty happy w/ hits, hurries, and harrassing the QB - so long as it results in incomplete passes, INTs, balls thrown out of bounds...

    It just seemed at times that the opposing QB had a chance to watch a music video on youtube, have a snicker bar, before throwing for a completion....
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brad34. Show Brad34's posts

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    I know it's a little early to do this, but... Prior to the draft, it appeared that our pass rush was close to our #1 priority. The Patriots didn't really address the problem before, during, or after the draft.  With the release of Crable; are they any better or worse off than last year or they positioned to at least improve in this area?
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii

    It appears on the surface that the Pats haven't improved or addressed the pass rush. BB must see something that others can't with the D because it appears to be one of the worst in the league.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush? : I would be pretty happy w/ hits, hurries, and harrassing the QB - so long as it results in incomplete passes, INTs, balls thrown out of bounds... It just seemed at times that the opposing QB had a chance to watch a music video on youtube, have a snicker bar, before throwing for a completion....
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii


    I hear ya, I'm one of the people that wasn't happy with our d last year. TBC did a decent job though. I'm clearing the slate this year in hopes that Scheme, attitude, health and experience will make us a little better this year. I also think we could be scoring about 30 points a game which won't hurt the cause.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    Burgess "no-showing"/retiring sure doesn't help matters any...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

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    I saw a writeup credit for Cunningham tipping passes at the line of scrimmage in practice.  He's not allowed to hit any red-shirted quarterbacks right now. 

    Today the entire offense had to take a lap for coming up short in the red zone against the defense.  Assuming that the offense has gotten better this year, that's a good sign for the defense.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush? : What's interesting about your comment is that it's exactly what I thought back in 2007 when we were scoring at will (until later in the season when certain teams started figuring us out). The problem we had some serious problems in the red zone offensively and defensively. Offensively, were our problems related to the lack of a run game? I dunno. Was our Red zone D problems due to the lack of a decent pass rush? I dunno.
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii


    Vrabel had his best year in 2007.  It was the defensive backfield that was killing us at the time.  Mahroney was hurt then I believe as well but I think the feeling was, "so what?".
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush? : I hear ya, I'm one of the people that wasn't happy with our d last year. TBC did a decent job though. I'm clearing the slate this year in hopes that Scheme, attitude, health and experience will make us a little better this year. I also think we could be scoring about 30 points a game which won't hurt the cause.
    Posted by ewhite1065


    I don't see how folks went into last year thinking the D was not going to be questionable at the very least.  The late trade of Seymour left a huge hole on the right side.  McKenzie getting hurt forced Guyton into the middle.  We were hurting at the ILB spot.  I'm surprised we weren't run on more but the Pats did hold up.  Thank God for Bodden or this thing would have been a real mess.  The Pats have addressed this area pretty well IMHO.  Warren/Lewis for Seymours place.  Let's not forget the good job Pryor did.  The return of McKenzie and the drafting of Spikes adds depth to the ILB spots. 

    Really, all this talk has been generated by one game.  It wasn't until the Raven playoff game that things fell apart.  Not only the D but the team as a whole.  It was a poor time to have a bad game but that's all I think it was, just a bad game by the Pats.  Nothing went right.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    and in the spirit of the glass at least half full, a big upgrade at tight end, a hybrid TE,a stronger set of receivers, maybe an older and wiser Maroney without the Fred Astaire shoes, and a meanly focused Brady, and this defence may find itself playing with a solid lead more often...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

       Please donj't apologize for bring upinjuries in any sport.Injuries are not an alibi they are a reality and in this age of salary caps(especially in the NFL)the quality of the depth for every team is not what any would want.When multiple injuries occur at a single position or to the truely outatanding players of a team the effect is perticularly devastating.Oh,by the way,Wilfolk and Warren where both playing hurt when the Pats played the Ravens last year.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from HRK103. Show HRK103's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush? : Okay, I know I'm going to get grief over this statement, but didn't Wilfork have an ankle problem at that time.  I realize using an injury is a weak excuse for the run D, but the NT position in the 3-4 is kinda important against the run...
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii

    Did you Meriwhiffer on that Rice run? where were the LBers all game? where was Green, Write and the rest of DL?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

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    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush? : Yup. Agreed, good post, Gary. I think if you look at bodies alone on the DL in particular and then bodies competing at the weak spots on D (RDE, LOLB and MLB next to Mayo), this is pretty good and certainly an upgrade in terms of competition at these spots. Remember, Adalius THomas basically quit.  You had two late additioins in Burgess and Ninkovich who were more effective. Certainly not great, but the effort was clearly there and Ninkovich actually showed the ability to adjust. They had him playing well in the INdy game until he and TBC got hurt. That tells me Ninkovich wants it. I am not saying he should start, but competitive element is definitley improved by the sounds of things. At least it sounds like they have guys in there who care.  RDE is an intriguing spot for sure.  I have confidence that BB has identified the right kind of player at the MLB spot for Mayo. No knock on Guyton, he just needs to be used where his skill sets is better applied. I see these factors as upgrades, not downgrades. And there is Cunningham.  So, we'll see, but it leans towards an improvement, not a regression.
    Posted by russgriswold


    Thanks for the props.

    What everyone thought would happen did.  Thomas was going to be hitting the door.  With no team interested you know what the rest of the NFL thinks of his efforts in NE as well.  With maybe the only exception being the Jets which tells you something about their personnel decisions.

    Ninkovich was a find.  Like you, I liked his effort against Indy.  Maybe the time spent with the team he's learned more and we could see him in Thomas' old spot.  Guyton could be moved out here as well.  Very versatile guy.

    Watch out for the "Cunningham is a bust" talk that will be coming if he doesn't get the sacks.  I think he needs a year before we can expect something from him.  A lot of pressure on him to succeed.  The media could ruin this kid.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush? : Thanks for the props. What everyone thought would happen did.  Thomas was going to be hitting the door.  With no team interested you know what the rest of the NFL thinks of his efforts in NE as well.  With maybe the only exception being the Jets which tells you something about their personnel decisions. Ninkovich was a find.  Like you, I liked his effort against Indy.  Maybe the time spent with the team he's learned more and we could see him in Thomas' old spot.  Guyton could be moved out here as well.  Very versatile guy. Watch out for the "Cunningham is a bust" talk that will be coming if he doesn't get the sacks.  I think he needs a year before we can expect something from him.  A lot of pressure on him to succeed.  The media could ruin this kid.
    Posted by garytx


    Not sure where Guyton fits in. Too small/light to play ILB for run, too short/light to play OLB. He's did a decent job filling in fro Mayo when he was injured. Spikes is same height, a little heavier. McKenzie appears to be slightly shorter and lighter than Guyton. Crable is now gone, so OLB still a question mark. Patriots will have to make up for deficiency elsewhere.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    Guyton is 6'3".   He can play OLB and did some his rookie season.  Cunningham is 6'3" as well and is to provide a pass rush for us.  No doubt about the question mark though.  Did the Pats address the pass rush issue through the draft?  We have to wait but not long!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    I think we added alot of pieces to the front 7, and have  McKenzie back with us from last year, I think we will develop a significant rush this year.  Also, I was unhappy with the defense once Pees came in, hoping alot of the stuff I didn't like is fixed by THAT.  We came in last year with unexpected losses, both veteran and rookie, this year looks like the opposite of that, McKenzie back, and the new guys, Burgess may not be back, but I still believe we only needed MINOR adjustments last year.  Everything seemed a quarter second off, both offense and defense.  The Ravens game was what it was-  we were flat, they whipped us.  It has happened before and it will happen again.  We did exactly the same in the regular season against Buffalo in 2003-  did they dominate us next time we played them?  Or the Steelers? Or, or or?  It was ONE game, lets not make a seasons doom out of it. I like Bodden alot, think we can find someone solid for the other side, and as Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwin are fond of saying, Pressure=Pick Cover=Sack.  Last year, we did neither, but again, I think we were that 1/4 second off.  I'm hopeful, and I think I have good reason to be.
     
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    Re: Patriot Pass Rush?

    In Response to Re: Patriot Pass Rush?:
    Our Offensive dominance will be our best Defense this year.  Think of all the games we lost, last year, simply because we couldn't get the job done once getting into the opponents Red Zone.  Great Offence + Good Defense (doesn't need to be great) = Super Bowl.
    Posted by Tcal2

     
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