Patriot State of the Union

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wozzy hasn't stepped up and answered my quiz above, but here's another one, this time for True Champ.  All offseason Champ ragged on O'Brien for passing on first and ten in the Super Bowl from the six yard line (the infamous play-action safety play).    

    Well this Sunday, on the Pats last drive of the second quarter, they got the ball on their own two yard line.  McDaniels came out in a five-wide formation clearly telegraphing pass.  The pass play was successful, picking up five yards.  So he came out in five wide a second time (second and five from the seven yard line) and passed again for a first down.  

    So Champ, if O'Brien's play call in the Super Bowl was the stupidest thing ever, why was McDaniels' call Sunday not stupid?  Was it a good call or a bad one?  Please explain your reasons for your answers? And if you tihnk O'Brien's call was bad (as you've said) and McDaniel's was good, please explain the difference. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Wozzy actually went to bed, arguing that a running game would help the Patriot's for the last 4 years made him tired.

    Pezz made the ridiculous comment how the Denver game was a good example of the pass setting up the run, when that wasn't the case at all.  The first drive stalled; when they came out the 2nd time and mixed it up they scored.

    It's funny how the most prolific offensive season IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL was 2007 under McDaniel's (who was what, 19 at the time?) followed up by a 10-6 season with a QB who never started a college game, fast forward to this years offense which is on pace to be the 2nd best offense of all time... but somehow the resident fantasy football contingent question how good he is or whether he "can drive the Ferrari."  

    Laughable, clownish come to mind.  I've always stood by my beliefs and when I've been wrong I've admitted to it.  

    These people have been stating for four years that the run game had nothing to do with our predictability on offense, inefficiency in crunchtime and over use of our defense.  Over time they have backtracked numerous times as they've been proven wrong again and again, changing their stance from "running is unimportant, it's a passing league" to "the offensive line isn't made for running" to "the runningbacks aren't talented enough."

    Now all of a sudden O'Brien was a running guru, Law Firm was plenty succesfull in 2010 and because McDaniels two years as offensive coordinator he has only been to one Super Bowl and didn't win he isn't as good as O'Brien was.

    Be a f-ing man, admit that we sorely needed a running game to be successful much like we had in our 3 championship years and move on.  What your seeing on the field this year is the result of balance (much like 2007) what some of us have been yelling about for four years while the rest of you stated "it's ok, we're the #1 rated fantasy football offense so we must be good."  

    I hope you won your fantasy league championship, because back here in the real world we were getting bounced in the first round by the Ravens and Jets. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Did you answer the question or typically revert to your misguided perception of what others have said?

     The pass is setting up the run as evidenced by defensive play calling by the opposition.  Are they concentrating on defending the pass or the run?  ANSWER THAT.  It has nothing to do with the comparision of one failed drive and one successful one, both being opposite and cherry picked.  Please note the failed running drives in your comparison if you want to be accurate..  (like the goal line failure) All plays come down to execution, not their secquence or number of run/pass plays called.  Drives fail all the time!

    Which bring us back to last year when the execution was not there for whatever reason.  In other words the new, inexperience, injured backs weren't the best option. If you can't see that, then you might want to question yourself, not the coaches.

    No body is back tracking, it's always been my contention that the backs weren't good enough and the D was more of an issue than a 60/40 pass, run balance.  It still is.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    Need the edit function back please???

    Erick Frenz BR.

    The running game has been facilitated by the uptempo style of offense, because the Patriots are able to do what they haven't been able to do in the past: run the football when teams are asking them to do so. Brady said after the game:

     

    We’re getting a lot of nickel defense. When they put little guys out there, we have to take advantage of it. I think we’re playing definitely a more physical style and controlling the tempo of the game by running the football. We have to keep doing it.

     

    Several of New England's biggest runs took advantage of those looks.

     

     

     

    Here they are lined up in the 12-personnel grouping against a nickel package on 1st-and-10 in the first quarter, with the ball on Denver's 45-yard line.

     

    It's an obvious running situation, but Denver's personnel grouping indicates it will not allow itself to be beaten through the air.

     

     

     

    Once again, tempo was a factor, with the ball being snapped nanoseconds after the line was set.

     

     

     

    In the end, the Patriots were able to respond to the challenge set forth by the defense by reeling off a 15-yard gain on a handoff up the middle.

     

    The Patriots capitalized frequently, with Brady checking to runs at the line when he saw favorable looks.

    Just a little more icing on the cake for your reading pleasure.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to DelGriffith's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Jri37, I think honestly, if the refs are not going to enforce holding, you can forget that 3rd down rate improving.

    It's going to take an act of god to improve that rate if holding is allowed at that rate by the officials.

    I mean, how many times did we see Jones or Nink come off the edge, ready to bear down for a potential hurry or sack, only to be armbarred or grabbed outright? 10 times? Not 1 of those was a hold on Denver? Really?

    Meanwhile, Wendell borderline holds his guy as the player falls through the pocket and it's a hold?

    Laughable.

    [/QUOTE]


    I made this point when a number of people were so deliriously happy when the "regular" refs came back, and I think you were the guy who started the thread about Goodell "mandating" certain outcomes through officiating, but the bottom line is that the officiating is simply bad . . .  and by that I mean wildly inconsistent. It doesn't look to me as if certain teams are being blatantly helped or jobbed (although the only Pats game I've seen was the Ravens game and that was just a circus on both sides of the ball),it just looks -- as it always has -- as if the zebras simply have no idea what they're looking at from one play to the next.

    That, and the attempt to remove actual hitting from the game entirely have made it nearly unwatchable for me. I'm sincere: I've all but checked out until playoff time. I just get no sense that what the players actually do on the field will have a determinant affect on the outcome of the game unless the zebras say it's okay first . . .  and I don't tune in to watch the officials move the ball up and down the field with flags.

    Who saw that nonsense at the end of the Sunday night game where the zebras backed San Dago up 40 yards on three consecutive fouls then gave them an automatic first down on a five-yard "illegal contact"?

    Simply ridiculous.

     

    I'm out.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to BubbaInHawaii's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    just my 2 cents, but McD was the same OC who took Welker out of the offensive game plan and had Woodhead getting a million touches. This is not the sign of a genius. He has improved, and will need to continue to improve as the season goes on.

    Same holds true for Patricia.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Welker played every game to date and even dropped some passes, Woodhead looked pretty good last game, when the offense executes perfectly the rate of success of each play will rise. This is kind of the nature of the game, I don't think anyone ever stops learning, true of Josh, true of BB... but he is the best young coordinator in the game by my estimation.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    Oh yeah and the Broncos were playing with whatever defense they had on the field because the offense was running the no huddle, so saying they were trying to stop the pass but not the run is inane.  They were trying unsuccessfully to stop it all, that's what balance will bring you.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh yeah and the Broncos were playing with whatever defense they had on the field because the offense was running the no huddle, so saying they were trying to stop the pass but not the run is inane.  They were trying unsuccessfully to stop it all, that's what balance will bring you.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's actually a very good point Woozy, congrats!

    Buttt......... do you agree the first drive of the game (you know, the one you were dissing)  MIGHT have had something to do with setting that up?   Hmmm

    Could that be what Pro was getting at in his question to you?  Maybe?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    That was, of course, what Prolate was getting at Pezz.  The first drive set up the later drives.  I'm actually acknowledging Josh did a very clever job of play calling.  But part of what was so clever about what Josh did was starting out in a pass-centric offense.  This encouraged Denver to put their pass defense on the field.  Josh also started the second drive with five wide, again encouraging Denver to start with extra pass defenders on the field.  Then he went hurry up so they couldn't get those defenders off the field and began to run against them.  The point, though, is the play calling was all based around using the pass to get the right defense on the field, then switching to run.   It was using the passing game to set up run.  Wozzy makes fun of this concept . . . but it is exactly what Josh McDaniels has done the last two games.  And it's working well . . .

    Of course, it only worked Sunday because they executed so well in both the pass and run.  If one technique or the other had failed, the whole strategy would have failed.  You can't pull this off without the right personnel and the right execution in both in the passing game and the running game. 

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    I think as a team we will rise and fall with the quarterback - with him we always have a chance. We have a slightly better offense than last year for a couple of reasons...one Ridley and Bodden and two Lloyd. I think if the offensive line continues to improve, we can call the offense much better than last year's.

    I don't know if I'd call our defense improved over last year's. I still think getting off the field is a problem and we've been aided by some drops. Also during that Cardinal's game their QB just flat out missed guys that were wide open....good QB's won't do that. I still think this defense is a problem - a big one.

    I like the fact that Spikes can cause turn overs and is a professional hitter, but I just think there's too much missing from the defense. For every good play Mayo makes, he makes an equally bad play in coverage. The safety play has been poor thus far. And the corners have been shaky. We don't get a pass rush and third downs are an exercise in comfort for quarterbacks. Outside of Wilfork our defensive tackles scare no one. I think the only difference from last year's to this, is that Spikes is playing healthy and adds some toughness to the unit. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I hope I'm wrong...I probably am.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to BubbaInHawaii's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    just my 2 cents, but McD was the same OC who took Welker out of the offensive game plan and had Woodhead getting a million touches. This is not the sign of a genius. He has improved, and will need to continue to improve as the season goes on.

    Same holds true for Patricia.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    "This is not the sign of a genius. He has improved, and will need to continue to improve as the season goes on."

    +1

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to bobbysu's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wozzy hasn't stepped up and answered my quiz above, but here's another one, this time for True Champ.  All offseason Champ ragged on O'Brien for passing on first and ten in the Super Bowl from the six yard line (the infamous play-action safety play).    

    Well this Sunday, on the Pats last drive of the second quarter, they got the ball on their own two yard line.  McDaniels came out in a five-wide formation clearly telegraphing pass.  The pass play was successful, picking up five yards.  So he came out in five wide a second time (second and five from the seven yard line) and passed again for a first down.  

    So Champ, if O'Brien's play call in the Super Bowl was the stupidest thing ever, why was McDaniels' call Sunday not stupid?  Was it a good call or a bad one?  Please explain your reasons for your answers? And if you tihnk O'Brien's call was bad (as you've said) and McDaniel's was good, please explain the difference. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Wozzy actually went to bed, arguing that a running game would help the Patriot's for the last 4 years made him tired.

    Pezz made the ridiculous comment how the Denver game was a good example of the pass setting up the run, when that wasn't the case at all.  The first drive stalled; when they came out the 2nd time and mixed it up they scored.

    It's funny how the most prolific offensive season IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL was 2007 under McDaniel's (who was what, 19 at the time?) followed up by a 10-6 season with a QB who never started a college game, fast forward to this years offense which is on pace to be the 2nd best offense of all time... but somehow the resident fantasy football contingent question how good he is or whether he "can drive the Ferrari."  

    Laughable, clownish come to mind.  I've always stood by my beliefs and when I've been wrong I've admitted to it.  

    These people have been stating for four years that the run game had nothing to do with our predictability on offense, inefficiency in crunchtime and over use of our defense.  Over time they have backtracked numerous times as they've been proven wrong again and again, changing their stance from "running is unimportant, it's a passing league" to "the offensive line isn't made for running" to "the runningbacks aren't talented enough."

    Now all of a sudden O'Brien was a running guru, Law Firm was plenty succesfull in 2010 and because McDaniels two years as offensive coordinator he has only been to one Super Bowl and didn't win he isn't as good as O'Brien was.

    Be a f-ing man, admit that we sorely needed a running game to be successful much like we had in our 3 championship years and move on.  What your seeing on the field this year is the result of balance (much like 2007) what some of us have been yelling about for four years while the rest of you stated "it's ok, we're the #1 rated fantasy football offense so we must be good."  

    I hope you won your fantasy league championship, because back here in the real world we were getting bounced in the first round by the Ravens and Jets. 

    Whats worse losing at home. Good Teams never do this. Occasionally it happens, but back to back. Botched Field Goal, Sterling Moores Great Play, and it couldv'e been 3 straight years. Except for Denver game, this Offense stunk in the Play-offs past 3 years.

    We were becoming like the Chargers, Great Choke artists. Go on and on that Passing will get you to the promise land, but its a Mirage. You better Run the Football to be less Predictable.

    [/QUOTE]

    "Pezz made the ridiculous comment how the Denver game was a good example of the pass setting up the run, when that wasn't the case at all.  The first drive stalled; when they came out the 2nd time and mixed it up they scored."

    on point!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]I think as a team we will rise and fall with the quarterback - with him we always have a chance. We have a slightly better offense than last year for a couple of reasons...one Ridley and Bodden and two Lloyd. I think if the offensive line continues to improve, we can call the offense much better than last year's.

    I don't know if I'd call our defense improved over last year's. I still think getting off the field is a problem and we've been aided by some drops. Also during that Cardinal's game their QB just flat out missed guys that were wide open....good QB's won't do that. I still think this defense is a problem - a big one.

    I like the fact that Spikes can cause turn overs and is a professional hitter, but I just think there's too much missing from the defense. For every good play Mayo makes, he makes an equally bad play in coverage. The safety play has been poor thus far. And the corners have been shaky. We don't get a pass rush and third downs are an exercise in comfort for quarterbacks. Outside of Wilfork our defensive tackles scare no one. I think the only difference from last year's to this, is that Spikes is playing healthy and adds some toughness to the unit. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I hope I'm wrong...I probably am.
    [/QUOTE]

    While this may be true, the Patriots are still among the best teams in the NFL despite their shortcomings. There will be no Patriots blowouts in the playoffs, but they will play hardfought, close, competitive games. Personally, I would have it no other way.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh yeah and the Broncos were playing with whatever defense they had on the field because the offense was running the no huddle, so saying they were trying to stop the pass but not the run is inane.  They were trying unsuccessfully to stop it all, that's what balance will bring you.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's actually a very good point Woozy, congrats!

    Buttt......... do you agree the first drive of the game (you know, the one you were dissing)  MIGHT have had something to do with setting that up?   Hmmm

    Could that be what Pro was getting at in his question to you?  Maybe?

    [/QUOTE]

    I can't speculate on the result had they run on the first drive, Woody may have been successful like he was later in the game, but Ridley started this game on the bench.  I don't believe two makes it more than coincidence, but this is at least two slow offensive starts to games with Woody starting the game?  The offense sure took off like a rocket later so I'll have to accede there is a possibility your premise could be correct.  

    I prefer running early, even when I played in highschool I never felt like the game had started until I got hit or gave a hit, running, you do the hitting instead of receiving it, it gets the game day jitters out in a proactive way.

    I did like the start of the previous game; I Formation, Fells at fullback, Ridley in the backfield looking like a sure run play, instead it becomes a play action to Fells out of the backfield for a long first down.

     

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccnsd. Show ccnsd's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    Wozzy still insists that it was the running attack that set up the passing offense in 2007. Wasn't it the brilliant McDaniels who was in charge of the offense in that super bowl that ran for only 45 yards. If you are still convinced he's the brains behind the Pats then ask a Bronco fan about McDaniels brilliance.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to ccnsd's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wozzy still insists that it was the running attack that set up the passing offense in 2007. Wasn't it the brilliant McDaniels who was in charge of the offense in that super bowl that ran for only 45 yards. If you are still convinced he's the brains behind the Pats then ask a Bronco fan about McDaniels brilliance.

    [/QUOTE]

    In 2007 the Pats ranked 10th in the entire NFL in rushing attempts, the majority of which came in the first half of the season.  To say we didn't run would be silly considering we ranked in the top 1/3 of the NFL.  Some coaches make great coordinators but not head coaches, the list is long.  To say Josh wasn't ready would be an understatement.  He was and is still learning, I think he learned a lot in the 07 Super Bowl.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    ^ Bump this thread! Thank you wozzy for the OP and all you consistent contributors to this pleasurable reading thread. Yep, a group of members on opposite sides but pleasurable indeed. Thank you all. Thats what this forum is all about, no hard feelings just opinions.

    This has been so good that I'm a bit confused either way. Whatever happens on Sunday in Seattle is going to sway me and surely others, we'll see. Thanks again!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think as a team we will rise and fall with the quarterback - with him we always have a chance. We have a slightly better offense than last year for a couple of reasons...one Ridley and Bodden and two Lloyd. I think if the offensive line continues to improve, we can call the offense much better than last year's.

    I don't know if I'd call our defense improved over last year's. I still think getting off the field is a problem and we've been aided by some drops. Also during that Cardinal's game their QB just flat out missed guys that were wide open....good QB's won't do that. I still think this defense is a problem - a big one.

    I like the fact that Spikes can cause turn overs and is a professional hitter, but I just think there's too much missing from the defense. For every good play Mayo makes, he makes an equally bad play in coverage. The safety play has been poor thus far. And the corners have been shaky. We don't get a pass rush and third downs are an exercise in comfort for quarterbacks. Outside of Wilfork our defensive tackles scare no one. I think the only difference from last year's to this, is that Spikes is playing healthy and adds some toughness to the unit. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I hope I'm wrong...I probably am.

    [/QUOTE]

    ".one Ridley and Bodden and two Lloyd."

    agreed.

    i was on here implorign bb to get teh outside wr to make the offense indefensible, ditto with back threat, imploringhim to play ridley. with those 2 things added (provided the o line holds up) , we dont need to worry about the offense. come playoffs........unless whichever o.c. we have outsmarts or outdumbs themself.

    on defense we just have to fix teh glaring weakness at both cb positions (to ensure we make it thru the playoffs)

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think as a team we will rise and fall with the quarterback - with him we always have a chance. We have a slightly better offense than last year for a couple of reasons...one Ridley and Bodden and two Lloyd. I think if the offensive line continues to improve, we can call the offense much better than last year's.

    I don't know if I'd call our defense improved over last year's. I still think getting off the field is a problem and we've been aided by some drops. Also during that Cardinal's game their QB just flat out missed guys that were wide open....good QB's won't do that. I still think this defense is a problem - a big one.

    I like the fact that Spikes can cause turn overs and is a professional hitter, but I just think there's too much missing from the defense. For every good play Mayo makes, he makes an equally bad play in coverage. The safety play has been poor thus far. And the corners have been shaky. We don't get a pass rush and third downs are an exercise in comfort for quarterbacks. Outside of Wilfork our defensive tackles scare no one. I think the only difference from last year's to this, is that Spikes is playing healthy and adds some toughness to the unit. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I hope I'm wrong...I probably am.

    [/QUOTE]

    what you say of the defense is all true. we(or i) can see that and discuss it in game threads as its happening. however the biggest danger despite all of this i see as the 2 cb positons

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Patriot State of the Union

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh yeah and the Broncos were playing with whatever defense they had on the field because the offense was running the no huddle, so saying they were trying to stop the pass but not the run is inane.  They were trying unsuccessfully to stop it all, that's what balance will bring you.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's actually a very good point Woozy, congrats!

    Buttt......... do you agree the first drive of the game (you know, the one you were dissing)  MIGHT have had something to do with setting that up?   Hmmm

    Could that be what Pro was getting at in his question to you?  Maybe?

    [/QUOTE]

    I can't speculate on the result had they run on the first drive, Woody may have been successful like he was later in the game, but Ridley started this game on the bench.  I don't believe two makes it more than coincidence, but this is at least two slow offensive starts to games with Woody starting the game?  The offense sure took off like a rocket later so I'll have to accede there is a possibility your premise could be correct.  

    I prefer running early, even when I played in highschool I never felt like the game had started until I got hit or gave a hit, running, you do the hitting instead of receiving it, it gets the game day jitters out in a proactive way.

    I did like the start of the previous game; I Formation, Fells at fullback, Ridley in the backfield looking like a sure run play, instead it becomes a play action to Fells out of the backfield for a long first down.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    having the threat of both is critical against good teams, regardless what we do.

     

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