Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

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    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD :      The Pats wouldn't have had to "move up" to select Jordan. He was taken after Solder. I'd much rather have Solder than Kerrigan. Based on what I've seen thus far, Solder has pro-bowl potential as a LT.      J.J. Watt can play. But, he would have never become a Patriot...since he's represented by agent Tom Condon, who BB despises.      You're right regarding Dowling. For the 2011 draft to be a success, Dowling must become a solid player...and must show that he can stay healthy.    
    Posted by TexasPat3


    That's not the point, dude. He could have had both Solder and Jordan, or Solder and Watt, or Solder and Kerrigan IF HE WANTED TO WITH ALL THE DRAFT AMMUNITION HE HAD. The point is that he chose not to address playmakers on the defensive side of the ball AGAIN, so here we are once more with a defense that can't stop anyone. Can you win a Super Bowl with this defense? That's the issue, not whether Solder will be an all-pro tackle.  Dowling may still be a defensive playmaker, but it's hard to do that from the trainer's room. But even he isn't going to pressure the quarterback.

    Kerrigan, btw, is going to be a stud.
     
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    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    One thing I disagree with is naming Fred Jackson the player of the game.  Even know we lost, Wes clearly outplayed anyone on both teams for all 60 minutes.
     
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    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    I agree with Texas...4 interceptions = a Loss. No way out of that hole. I DO think we need to give Ridley a real shot as the starting RB. Woodhead seems slow and BJGE seems ineffective.Ocho will be gone by game 6. AND...can anyone get a line on Haynesworth? What is really wrong with him?
     
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    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD : That's not the point, dude. He could have had both Solder and Jordan, or Solder and Watt, or Solder and Kerrigan IF HE WANTED TO WITH ALL THE DRAFT AMMUNITION HE HAD. The point is that he chose not to address playmakers on the defensive side of the ball AGAIN, so here we are once more with a defense that can't stop anyone. Can you win a Super Bowl with this defense? That's the issue, not whether Solder will be an all-pro tackle.  Dowling may still be a defensive playmaker, but it's hard to do that from the trainer's room. But even he isn't going to pressure the quarterback. Kerrigan, btw, is going to be a stud.
    Posted by sml1210


         No way that the Texans would have traded down from #11 from Watt, to #28. In order to move up to #11, the Pats would have had to part with the 17th overall pick, and likely, the 33rd overall as well, at a minimum. In other words, they would have not gotten Solder.

         Besides, as I stated above, there's no way Watt would have become a Patriot, because he was represented by Tom Condon...who BB hates with a passion. 

         It remains to be seen whether Kerrigan will develop. It's highly doubtful that the Redskins would have done a trade, without the Pats' surrendering the 17th pick as part of a package. After all, every team looks to add top notch pass-rushing prospects. But, for the sake of argument, let's say the Redskins were amenable to a trade. To move up to #16, yet keep the 17th overall pick, it would have likely cost the Pats the 28th, 33rd, and 60th overall picks, at a minimum.
     
         If this was done, than the Pats would have effectively traded away the rights to Shane Vereen, Dowling, Stevan Ridley, and the Saints' #1 pick in 2012...for Kerrigan. That's a lot to gamble for one guy.       
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsRfineIn09. Show PatsRfineIn09's posts

    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    '' V. PLAY OF THE GAME: The diving interception by Bills' CB Bryan Scott (Brady's first of four). It stopped a Patriots' scoring draft at the end of the first half, and led to the Bills getting a FG...and the momentum. It was at least a 6 point turn-around. If the Patriots had gone in for a TD, and gone up, 28-7...this game could have disintegrated into a blow-out Patriots' win. ''

    I agree, this was the key moment in the game. With a 2 TD lead, a 1st and 10 and just over a minute on the clock why on earth are we not running the ball in that situation? Throw the INT, stop the clock and give them 3 points when we could of ran it and keep the ball until halftime and be up 24-7 or 28-7.
    This one dimensional pass happy offense is predictable, it is going to get Brady sacked/hurt and more blown games are in our future if the running game is ignored 80 percent of the time. Our offense is capable of 40 to 20 TOP and if we mix in 40 to 50 percent run we won't be giving up huge leads like in Buffalo. O'Brien better alter this offensive lack of balance in a hurry.
    Good defenses like the Jets and Ravens are going eat Brady for lunch if we don't COMMIT TO THE RUN.
     
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    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

     I don't believe in blaming the refs for a loss. It seems every game Pats fans think there is a conspiracy against them and I just do not see it. That PI in the endzone looked fairly legit to me, I have seen much worse called for and against the Pats in the past.
     Also Brady deserves a c-, not an F unless you are grading on a scale. A 67% completion percentage and 4 touchdowns including driving the Pats on a gutsy late drive to tie the game has to count for something, otherwise what qualifies for a c. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    '' V. PLAY OF THE GAME: The diving interception by Bills' CB Bryan Scott (Brady's first of four). It stopped a Patriots' scoring draft at the end of the first half, and led to the Bills getting a FG...and the momentum. It was at least a 6 point turn-around. If the Patriots had gone in for a TD, and gone up, 28-7...this game could have disintegrated into a blow-out Patriots' win. '' I agree, this was the key moment in the game. With a 2 TD lead, a 1st and 10 and just over a minute on the clock why on earth are we not running the ball in that situation? Throw the INT, stop the clock and give them 3 points when we could of ran it and keep the ball until halftime and be up 24-7 or 28-7. This one dimensional pass happy offense is predictable, it is going to get Brady sacked/hurt and more blown games are in our future if the running game is ignored 80 percent of the time. Our offense is capable of 40 to 20 TOP and if we mix in 40 to 50 percent run we won't be giving up huge leads like in Buffalo. O'Brien better alter this offensive lack of balance in a hurry. Good defenses like the Jets and Ravens are going eat Brady for lunch if we don't COMMIT TO THE RUN .
    Posted by PatsRfineIn09


         The Pats won't, and can't commit to the run. That's not who they are. Like it or not, the Pats have morphed into the Indianapolis Colts. They are a finesse team...that runs the ball only to keep defenses honest, and to set up the pass. Their best player is perhaps the greatest QB of all-time. Using an asset like Tom Brady as a game manager is a waste of his talent.
     
         That said, you do make a good point about running the ball the ball in that situation: 1st and 10 at the Buffalo 13, with 1:05 left in the half. Why not make sure that the Bills have no time on the clock to run their "two-minute" offense by running the ball on first down? Had the Pats done so, they could have ran the clock down to under :40 seconds, before running their next play.

         The other thing that irks me are the bad decisions that Brady made in this loss. Why force that play to Woodhead, who was obviously well covered? Why not just throw the ball away, and move on to the next play? This horrible combination of poor clock management and decision making cost the Pats the game...a game that they could have, and should have won.

         But please, people...stop blaming Bill O'Brien!!! OB didn't throw that bogus pass. Brady did! Who knows if that call came from OB, BB, or was a check-off by Brady at the line of scrimmage? Why is it that whenever something goes wrong with the offense, OB gets the blame...yet when things go well, only Brady and BB are credited?  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD :      Why is Bill O'Brien always blamed when things go wrong...yet BB always gets the credit when things go well?      What's the big deal about that one bad play with Edelman? Did it cost the Pats the game? Or...did Brady and his four picks do that?       Bodden and McCourty have zero confidence? The way they've been getting burnt, they shouldn't be confident! This begs the question...are these guys really that good? In previous threads, I've been ridiculed for commenting that Leigh Bodden is nothing more than an average CB. I'm not worried about McCourty. In fairness to both, they're suffering from the Pats' failure to establish a consistent pass-rush, and, more importantly, the Pats' glaring weakness at free-safety. In any event, something needs to be done to change the coverage schemes. The Pats are giving up too many big plays.      As for why the Pats don't have "name" coordinators...the reason is money. BB doesn't believe in paying top dollar to keep top assistant coaches. This doesn't appear to make sense...considering that assistant coaches salaries aren't part of the salary cap.     
    Posted by TexasPat3

    tex,

    re:
    "   Why is Bill O'Brien always blamed when things go wrong...yet BB always gets the credit when things go well?


    its obvious obrian makes the offensive calls.
    i dont parise bb for offense for offensive playcalls or game plan when obrian is makingthecalls.

         What's the big deal about that one bad play with Edelman? Did it cost the Pats the game? Or...did Brady and his four picks do that? 

    the point i make is ridley should be the #1 back. and they shoul use him, running and passing and to control the game.

         Bodden and McCourty have zero confidence? The way they've been getting burnt, they shouldn't be confident! This begs the question...are these guys really that good? In previous threads, I've been ridiculed for commenting that Leigh Bodden is nothing more than an average CB. I'm not worried about McCourty. In fairness to both, they're suffering from the Pats' failure to establish a consistent pass-rush, and, more importantly, the Pats' glaring weakness at free-safety. In any event, something needs to be done to change the coverage schemes. The Pats are giving up too many big plays. 


    they are sufferign from not having a db coach who knows what the f they are doing (a top nfl db coach, not a coach who is learning on the job). they have some flaws in their techniques.


         As for why the Pats don't have "name" coordinators...the reason is money. BB doesn't believe in paying top dollar to keep top assistant coaches. This doesn't appear to make sense...considering that assistant coaches salaries aren't part of the salary cap.

    whether someone claimed that or not its not the case. 
    kraft is not saying lets save money on coaches.
    they dont have legit top coaches because bb does not want them.

    i am saying if bb could live with a coach standing up to him and who is good in his own right, then, we would have them.

    we also need a change in our evaluators (better ones) and a gm who can at least counterbalance bb if not be in charge of the operation.


    one mind is not better than several equally good ones (coaches staff and gm).

     
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    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
         Here are some cold, hard football facts on the Patriots' loss at Buffalo: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_4122_New_England_Patriots_Fall_To_Buffalo_Bills_34-31%3A_5_Things_We_Learned.html
    Posted by TexasPat3


    tex,
    these c.h.f.f. are the same comments i and many others on the board have made
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD : That's not the point, dude. He could have had both Solder and Jordan, or Solder and Watt, or Solder and Kerrigan IF HE WANTED TO WITH ALL THE DRAFT AMMUNITION HE HAD. The point is that he chose not to address playmakers on the defensive side of the ball AGAIN, so here we are once more with a defense that can't stop anyone. Can you win a Super Bowl with this defense? That's the issue, not whether Solder will be an all-pro tackle.  Dowling may still be a defensive playmaker, but it's hard to do that from the trainer's room. But even he isn't going to pressure the quarterback. Kerrigan, btw, is going to be a stud.
    Posted by sml1210

    sml,
    re;
    "The point is that he chose not to address playmakers on the defensive side of the ball AGAIN,

    he chose not to address pass rush playmakers more specifically (he did choose dowling to help the secondary)

    by the way, a few of us were hollering to get a vet safety to help the team come together back here. so far we are seen the result of not doing that.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD :      The Pats won't, and can't commit to the run. That's not who they are. Like it or not, the Pats have morphed into the Indianapolis Colts. They are a finesse team...that runs the ball only to keep defenses honest, and to set up the pass. Their best player is perhaps the greatest QB of all-time. Using an asset like Tom Brady as a game manager is a waste of his talent.        That said, you do make a good point about running the ball the ball in that situation: 1st and 10 at the Buffalo 13, with 1:05 left in the half. Why not make sure that the Bills have no time on the clock to run their "two-minute" offense by running the ball on first down? Had the Pats done so, they could have ran the clock down to under :40 seconds, before running their next play.      The other thing that irks me are the bad decisions that Brady made in this loss. Why force that play to Woodhead, who was obviously well covered? Why not just throw the ball away, and move on to the next play? This horrible combination of poor clock management and decision making cost the Pats the game...a game that they could have, and should have won.      But please, people...stop blaming Bill O'Brien!!! OB didn't throw that bogus pass. Brady did! Who knows if that call came from OB, BB, or was a check-off by Brady at the line of scrimmage? Why is it that whenever something goes wrong with the offense, OB gets the blame...yet when things go well, only Brady and BB are credited?  
    Posted by TexasPat3

    "  The Pats won't, and can't commit to the run."
    just bs.
    if the oc decides to develop a run game, and mix it in, it would be done.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD : "   The Pats won't, and can't commit to the run." just bs. if the oc decides to develop a run game, and mix it in, it would be done.
    Posted by bredbru


         The Pats don't have the personnel to play smash-mouth football. They do "mix in" the run...but Brady and the passing game makes the offense go. They don't have an Adrian Peterson or a Darren McFadden...and don't have a physical, run-blocking OL. 

         This whine about running the ball is silly. The offense is fine. The problems on this team are on the defensive side of ball...no pass rush, poor pass coverage, poor tackling.   
     
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    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD :      No way that the Texans would have traded down from #11 from Watt, to #28. In order to move up to #11, the Pats would have had to part with the 17th overall pick, and likely, the 33rd overall as well, at a minimum. In other words, they would have not gotten Solder.      Besides, as I stated above, there's no way Watt would have become a Patriot, because he was represented by Tom Condon...who BB hates with a passion.       It remains to be seen whether Kerrigan will develop. It's highly doubtful that the Redskins would have done a trade, without the Pats' surrendering the 17th pick as part of a package. After all, every team looks to add top notch pass-rushing prospects. But, for the sake of argument, let's say the Redskins were amenable to a trade. To move up to #16, yet keep the 17th overall pick, it would have likely cost the Pats the 28th, 33rd, and 60th overall picks, at a minimum.        If this was done, than the Pats would have effectively traded away the rights to Shane Vereen, Dowling, Stevan Ridley, and the Saints' #1 pick in 2012...for Kerrigan. That's a lot to gamble for one guy.       
    Posted by TexasPat3



    Maybe, maybe not.

    To be enamoured with BB's penchant to trade out of the first round or more specifically not package lower round picks to move up when possible, we'd have to be enamoured of his ability to find contributing players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the drafts. So let's look at his ability to find that talent in the last 10 years...


    HITS  (Starter or servicable for multiple years)

    2001      2.17  Matt Light             
    2002      2.33  Deion Branch        
    2003      2.04  Eugene Wilson     
    2005      3.20  Ellis Hobbs            
    2005      3.37  Nick Kaczur          
    2009      2.02  Patrick Chung       
    2009      2.26  Sebastien Vollmer 
    2010      2.21  Rob Gronkowski

    MISSES (contributed little or nothing) or JUST DON'T KNOW YETS, BUT INITIAL RETURNS DON'T LOOK PROMISING *

    2001      3.24  Brock Williams       
    2003      2.13  Bethel Johnson     
    2004      2.31  Marquise Hill        
    2004      3.32  Gus Scott              
    2006      2.04  Chad Jackson        
    2006      3.22  David Thomas       
    2008      2.31  Terrance Wheatley 
    2008      3.15  Shawn Crable       
    2008      3.31  Kevin O'Donnell    
    2009      2.08  Ron Brace  *         
    2009      2.09  Darius Butler       
    2009      3.19  Brandon Tate      
    2009      3.33  Tyrone McKenzie  
    2010      2.21  Jermaine Cunningham *
    2010      2.30  Brandon Spikes *
    2010      3.26  Taylor Price *

    So for the last ten years draft activity, only 8 out of the 24 (33%) 2nd and 3rd rounders have amounted to anything substantial. Not really great imperical data to suggest that there's been a lot of capitalization throughtout all that downward movement and deferral in the drafts.

    So while we "would have effectively traded away the rights to Shane Vereen, Dowling, Stevan Ridley, and the Saints' #1 pick in 2012...for Kerrigan," the imperical data suggests that there is a much greater than even chance that we wouldn't have lost anything substantial anyway. And we don't yet know what we've capitalized on with the "Saints #1 pick in 2012," do we? And there is a better than even chance that we won't even use that pick!

    Meanwhile, Kerrigan is CURRENTLY (AS IN NOW) creating a pretty decent pass rush, setting a great edge, and even has an interception return for a tourchdown. Yet Dowling can't get out of the trainer's room, Ridley has about 10 touches, and does Vereen even exist or is he a rumor? And oh yeah, we still have to wait another year to make that Saints pick, if we even make it.

    So, no, I'm not impressed with your impressions. Might be time to start gambling a little.
     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD : Maybe, maybe not. To be enamoured with BB's penchant to trade out of the first round or more specifically not package lower round picks to move up when possible, we'd have to be enamoured of his ability to find contributing players in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in the drafts. So let's look at his ability to find that talent in the last 10 years... HITS  (Starter or servicable for multiple years) 2001      2.17  Matt Light              2002      2.33  Deion Branch         2003      2.04  Eugene Wilson      2005      3.20  Ellis Hobbs             2005      3.37  Nick Kaczur           2009      2.02  Patrick Chung        2009      2.26  Sebastien Vollmer  2010      2.21  Rob Gronkowski MISSES (contributed little or nothing) or JUST DON'T KNOW YETS, BUT INITIAL RETURNS DON'T LOOK PROMISING * 2001      3.24  Brock Williams        2003      2.13  Bethel Johnson      2004      2.31  Marquise Hill         2004      3.32  Gus Scott               2006      2.04  Chad Jackson         2006      3.22  David Thomas        2008      2.31  Terrance Wheatley  2008      3.15  Shawn Crable        2008      3.31  Kevin O'Donnell     2009      2.08  Ron Brace  *          2009      2.09  Darius Butler        2009      3.19  Brandon Tate       2009      3.33  Tyrone McKenzie   2010      2.21  Jermaine Cunningham * 2010      2.30  Brandon Spikes * 2010      3.26  Taylor Price * So for the last ten years draft activity, only 8 out of the 24 (33%) 2nd and 3rd rounders have amounted to anything substantial. Not really great imperical data to suggest that there's been a lot of capitalization throughtout all that downward movement and deferral in the drafts. So while we "would have effectively traded away the rights to Shane Vereen, Dowling, Stevan Ridley, and the Saints' #1 pick in 2012...for Kerrigan," the imperical data suggests that there is a much greater than even chance that we wouldn't have lost anything substantial anyway. And we don't yet know what we've capitalized on with the "Saints #1 pick in 2012," do we? And there is a better than even chance that we won't even use that pick! Meanwhile, Kerrigan is CURRENTLY (AS IN NOW) creating a pretty decent pass rush, setting a great edge, and even has an interception return for a tourchdown. Yet Dowling can't get out of the trainer's room, Ridley has about 10 touches, and does Vereen even exist or is he a rumor? And oh yeah, we still have to wait another year to make that Saints pick, if we even make it. So, no, I'm not impressed with your impressions. Might be time to start gambling a little.  
    Posted by sml1210


         It's much too early to call on Kerrigan. Besides, you are taking it as a given that the Pats could have traded up to get him, without parting with their 17th overall pick (Nate Solder). We don't know that. We also don't know how Kerrigan would fit in BB's system. Every team is striving to find top notch pass-rushers. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD : ...for the last ten years draft activity, only 8 out of the 24 (33%) 2nd and 3rd rounders have amounted to anything substantial. Not really great imperical data to suggest that there's been a lot of capitalization throughtout all that downward movement and deferral in the drafts. So while we "would have effectively traded away the rights to Shane Vereen, Dowling, Stevan Ridley, and the Saints' #1 pick in 2012...for Kerrigan," the imperical data suggests that there is a much greater than even chance that we wouldn't have lost anything substantial anyway...Meanwhile, Kerrigan is CURRENTLY (AS IN NOW) creating a pretty decent pass rush, setting a great edge, and even has an interception return for a tourchdown. Yet Dowling can't get out of the trainer's room, Ridley has about 10 touches, and does Vereen even exist or is he a rumor? And oh yeah, we still have to wait another year to make that Saints pick, if we even make it. So, no, I'm not impressed with your impressions. Might be time to start gambling a little.  
    Posted by sml1210


         Apparently, Kerrigan is performing very well in Washington: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/29/kerrigan-is-the-nfls-defensive-rookie-of-the-month/ 

         Incidently, thank you for your excellent post. It was interesting reading.
     
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    Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots @ Bills REPORT CARD :      The Pats won't, and can't commit to the run. That's not who they are. Like it or not, the Pats have morphed into the Indianapolis Colts. They are a finesse team...that runs the ball only to keep defenses honest, and to set up the pass. Their best player is perhaps the greatest QB of all-time. Using an asset like Tom Brady as a game manager is a waste of his talent.      
    Posted by TexasPat3

    Brady looked awful today as a game manager, what a complete waste of his talents, 226 yards passing, great offensive balance with the running game, you must be crushed that he did not line up 5 wide all day long LOL.
    Last weeks loss was a blessing in disguise, it forced the Patriots to try to establish a running threat and you saw that today. I am very pleased to see 172 yards rushing between Ridley and BJGE. If we stay committed to the run and not try to throw 45 times every week, we will be tough to beat. Very glad to see the offensive balance today.
     
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