Patriots Dead Money

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Patriots Dead Money

    I need some help here.  I have seen a number of posts indicating that the Pats have $15 million in dead money.  This reference, which seems to be the one most sited, indicates it's $8.5 million:

    http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Patriots&Year=2014

    I've also seen several times the number $4 million as available cap space for the Pats.  This reference indicates that it's $7.6 million:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1909819-breaking-down-patriots-2014-salary-cap-where-is-money-best-spent

    This particular link shows the Pats as being $300K over the cap:

    http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nfl/

    How in the name of Roger Goodell am I supposed to sort any of this stuff out? 

    Thoughts, anyone?

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    It's impossible to truly sort out unless you have all the data--and you can't get all the data because the teams, league, and players union don't share that information with the public.  

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    Most of the sites I've looked at are off from one another, I've found the same to be true with player's contract value from the past (total contract amount). I'll give an example, I looked up free agent bust Jonathan Fanene's contract - I can't remember now, but at the time it was somewhere around 13 million - a poster called me out on it and told me it was less.

    I found a site that breaks down dead money, actual cash spent, salary cap totals, etc...but who knows how accurate it is? Truth is none of it matters, the patriots have a budget they stick to no matter what, and it's not the actual salary cap figure. I think in a perfect world they like to keep their money 7 million under the cap number - and I think the actual cash paid out (in bonus money) is somewhere right in the middle of the 32 teams.

    You'll see soon enough how fluid the NFL salary cap is when we reduce our cap figures by 15 million in the coming weeks...and that's without doing a thing to Hernandez's cap number.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money


    Pats have about 8.8 million in dead money as of now, 7.7 of that is Hernandez and his large 2014 cap hit.  Without the murderer we would only have 1.1 million in dead money before annual cuts. We absorbed the majority of dead money last year with Fanenes 3 mill, Lloyds 3 mill, and herns 4 mill. If Hernandez hadn't of killed a guy this offense looks great going into 2014 and has more cap room for the D. Hopefully we get a break from the league on this. Gronk, Hern, Amendola, Dobson, KT, Boyce, Rid, Vareen, is a pretty good offense. Unless you are like 1 poster on this board who thinks Kraft and BB knew Hern would be a murderer, then you realize BB had this team set up very well on a year to year basis.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.

    [/QUOTE]

    PE's correct. Miguel's is the best, and the $15mil figure was last season. And while Hernandez is the main driver of dead money this season, he was only 4th last season with some of the aforementioned players contributing rather high amounts to the "dead money"pile.

    Prolate is also correct; these are all just best estimates. The true number, which is probably very similar because there is only so much you can hide from the media, is actually quite close though. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.



    Some would call it "poor player management" others would call it pretty shtty luck. Lloyd came on as a very solid 4rth receiving option getting 900 yards and 4 tds playing behing Welker, Gronk and Hernandez(show me a number 4 receiver with that type of production other then WW for Denver) unfortunately the guy didn't want to play football anymore and decided to make B grade movies. Bummer.

    Fanene was the exact player you and I wanted on this team,  he was a gap integrity DE/ DT who could also get to the QB at 290 pounds. 6 sacks a year for 2 years and was 2nd on a good bengals defense in QB pressures. Some of you in hindshight wanted Red Bryant and his 35 million dollar deal, he will most likely be cut as I quote," he offers nothing as a pass rusher and fell off in run support". Fanene was a steal at 12 mill for 3 years with only 4 guaranteed, unfortunately he was addicted to pain killers and needed them to even practice. Tough luck.

    Then you have the rkarp theory that BB and Kraft knew Hernandez would shoot a man to death.  Either you believe that or you realize that again, it is just a shtty, bad luck situation where one of your best players decided to execute a human being. That is 11 mill in dead money. Hindsight champions of the world would call that poor management, others would see it for what it was. I know one thing for sure, paying Red Bryant 35 million and Goldson 42 million to play the same position as DMC (only not as well), certainly would have been not just "poor player management" it would have been horrible player management. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Some would call it "poor player management" others would call it pretty shtty luck. Lloyd came on as a very solid 4rth receiving option getting 900 yards and 4 tds playing behing Welker, Gronk and Hernandez(show me a number 4 receiver with that type of production other then WW for Denver) unfortunately the guy didn't want to play football anymore and decided to make B grade movies. Bummer.

     

    Fanene was the exact player you and I wanted on this team,  he was a gap integrity DE/ DT who could also get to the QB at 290 pounds. 6 sacks a year for 2 years and was 2nd on a good bengals defense in QB pressures. Some of you in hindshight wanted Red Bryant and his 35 million dollar deal, he will most likely be cut as I quote," he offers nothing as a pass rusher and fell off in run support". Fanene was a steal at 12 mill for 3 years with only 4 guaranteed, unfortunately he was addicted to pain killers and needed them to even practice. Tough luck.

    Then you have the rkarp theory that BB and Kraft knew Hernandez would shoot a man to death.  Either you believe that or you realize that again, it is just a shtty, bad luck situation where one of your best players decided to execute a human being. That is 11 mill in dead money. Hindsight champions of the world would call that poor management, others would see it for what it was. I know one thing for sure, paying Red Bryant 35 million and Goldson 42 million to play the same position as DMC (only not as well), certainly would have been not just "poor player management" it would have been horrible player management. 

    [/QUOTE]

    May be bad luck, but all three of those players also came cheap because there were warning signs that turned other teams off.  Lloyd had a reputation for underperforming and lack of drive, which led him to bounce around from team to team.  He was a known underachiever.  Fanene played less than half the snaps the year before coming to the Pats and had injury issues.  Hernandez slipped in the draft precisely because of character concerns.  The risks were known.  The Pats gambled on them and lost.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    But lost minimally. If we gambled on the players that you hindsight warriors endorced signing then we would have lost big. It is a term used when gambling. It's ok to lose but don't lose big. Cover your losses. Hedge your bets. We do that with the best of them and is the mainr reason we compete for a Super Bowl every year. 

    Paying Bryant and Goldson 77 million dollars = lose big.

    Plus I don't know how "the warnings were out" Hernandez shed his thug image(if there ever was one besides smoking pot) virtually did no wrong and earned his contract before murdering a guy. Lloyd lead the league in tds with Kyle Orton throwing him the ball. 3 million for that guy, and that's supposed to be what exactly? A bad move? Cinci was blasted by their fan base and media for not keeping Fanene at 12 million. He was a perfect fit. I don't know if 12 million is considered cheap.

    So is your point that you only "risk" when signing reasonable contracts but when you pay the big contracts you were smart and didn't risk? Sounds great.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Some would call it "poor player management" others would call it pretty shtty luck. Lloyd came on as a very solid 4rth receiving option getting 900 yards and 4 tds playing behing Welker, Gronk and Hernandez(show me a number 4 receiver with that type of production other then WW for Denver) unfortunately the guy didn't want to play football anymore and decided to make B grade movies. Bummer.

     

    Fanene was the exact player you and I wanted on this team,  he was a gap integrity DE/ DT who could also get to the QB at 290 pounds. 6 sacks a year for 2 years and was 2nd on a good bengals defense in QB pressures. Some of you in hindshight wanted Red Bryant and his 35 million dollar deal, he will most likely be cut as I quote," he offers nothing as a pass rusher and fell off in run support". Fanene was a steal at 12 mill for 3 years with only 4 guaranteed, unfortunately he was addicted to pain killers and needed them to even practice. Tough luck.

    Then you have the rkarp theory that BB and Kraft knew Hernandez would shoot a man to death.  Either you believe that or you realize that again, it is just a shtty, bad luck situation where one of your best players decided to execute a human being. That is 11 mill in dead money. Hindsight champions of the world would call that poor management, others would see it for what it was. I know one thing for sure, paying Red Bryant 35 million and Goldson 42 million to play the same position as DMC (only not as well), certainly would have been not just "poor player management" it would have been horrible player management. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Let's go over that list True:

    Lloyd - known locker room cancer and bounced around from team to team. Reason for release, locker room issues. Not bad luck just Lloyd being Lloyd.

    Fanene - Never really starter in Cinn and was never offered a contract because of concerns over his lower body injury. The injury existed before the Pats signed him. Was released because of injury. Not bad luck, just bad medical work up and not investing further into red flags. BTW why would Red be cut? He was one of the main reasons Sea got to the SB. So far he's played up to that contract.

    Hern - now I don't think BB and Kraft knew about the shooting, that's silly. However, they did know about gang affliations, him further embracing those affliations in Florida, those were the reasons he fell in the draft (not pot), and they knew about the locker room issues in his rook year. Looking back at all those things maybe giving him a large extension making him a top 10 paid TE in the league was not the brightest idea. Not bad luck just Hern's nature that something was bound to happen (murder though I'm sure no one expected)

    All those things weren't bad luck, they were not reading the warning signs properly as all ended up failing because of the red flags that were already part of their past. I would say it's poor management to ignore red flag warning signs to save a couple of bucks.

    Btw True, you do know there is a difference between SS and FS right? Goldson plays SS and McCourty plays FS. Also they brought in Goldson a year before he signed that contract. They obviously liked him because they made him an offer. If they made him a realy offer of $3mil over multiple years instead of lowballing on a single year we wouldn't be talking about that contract. Actually considering what they paid Gregory, A. Wilson, and T. Wilson it's what they could of had Goldson for if they offered him what SF gave him over multiple years and we would of had a mid 2nd round pick back! As for Bryant how much has Fanene and Kelly added up to the lat couple years? I'll give you a hint it's the same cap space amount Bryant has cost Sea. For some reason I think Sea got more out of Bryant than we got out of Fanene and Kelly.

    Btw I keep telling you this but you just don't seem to understand. It's only hindsight if you didn't point to it before it happened, otherwise it's known as foresight.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    Except that you are wrong, Goldson isn't a SS he is a FS, and and has had really 1 good year with 6 picks and a pro bowl trip, after signing his 42 million deal with 22 million guaranteed he had 70 tackles and a sack playing next to star "Strong Safety" Mark Barron and stud CB Revis.

    Red Bryant recived 35 million and has a 8.5 million cap hit. 

    Seahawks LE Red Bryant currently has an $8.5 million cap number for 2014. Working against Bryant is a $3 million roster bonus due on March 14. Bryant only played 488 snaps in 2013, offers next to nothing in terms of a pass rush, and turns 30 in April. The Seahawks are looking to clear as much cap space as possible with important players like DL Michael Bennett set to hit the open market next month   And like it or not admonishing the Hernandez selections and contract given is only done with 20-20 hindsight. Fanene lied about addiction to pain killers, his injury was in 2010, he turned in back to back good run support seasons with 6 sacks a piece and was the low risk, high reward signing that red Bryant was not. Only with the hindsight of what happened could he be considered a bad signing at a postion of need. 20-20.   So, in reality Red bryant for 35 million to play next to 50 million dollar Wilfork would have been a bad signing, and Goldson for 42 million to play about as well as Gregory played at another FS spot next to DMC also would have been a terrible decision.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Some would call it "poor player management" others would call it pretty shtty luck. Lloyd came on as a very solid 4rth receiving option getting 900 yards and 4 tds playing behing Welker, Gronk and Hernandez(show me a number 4 receiver with that type of production other then WW for Denver) unfortunately the guy didn't want to play football anymore and decided to make B grade movies. Bummer.

     

    Fanene was the exact player you and I wanted on this team,  he was a gap integrity DE/ DT who could also get to the QB at 290 pounds. 6 sacks a year for 2 years and was 2nd on a good bengals defense in QB pressures. Some of you in hindshight wanted Red Bryant and his 35 million dollar deal, he will most likely be cut as I quote," he offers nothing as a pass rusher and fell off in run support". Fanene was a steal at 12 mill for 3 years with only 4 guaranteed, unfortunately he was addicted to pain killers and needed them to even practice. Tough luck.

    Then you have the rkarp theory that BB and Kraft knew Hernandez would shoot a man to death.  Either you believe that or you realize that again, it is just a shtty, bad luck situation where one of your best players decided to execute a human being. That is 11 mill in dead money. Hindsight champions of the world would call that poor management, others would see it for what it was. I know one thing for sure, paying Red Bryant 35 million and Goldson 42 million to play the same position as DMC (only not as well), certainly would have been not just "poor player management" it would have been horrible player management. 

    [/QUOTE]

    May be bad luck, but all three of those players also came cheap because there were warning signs that turned other teams off.  Lloyd had a reputation for underperforming and lack of drive, which led him to bounce around from team to team.  He was a known underachiever.  Fanene played less than half the snaps the year before coming to the Pats and had injury issues.  Hernandez slipped in the draft precisely because of character concerns.  The risks were known.  The Pats gambled on them and lost.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Hern slipped in the draft due to smoking a little ganja. The big concern at the time was he would smoke himself right out of the league.   Fanene lied about his injuries. Lloyd had a reputation for performing extremely well in McD's offense. Not much of a gamble at all on any of them except maybe Fanene.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Some would call it "poor player management" others would call it pretty shtty luck. Lloyd came on as a very solid 4rth receiving option getting 900 yards and 4 tds playing behing Welker, Gronk and Hernandez(show me a number 4 receiver with that type of production other then WW for Denver) unfortunately the guy didn't want to play football anymore and decided to make B grade movies. Bummer.

     

    Fanene was the exact player you and I wanted on this team,  he was a gap integrity DE/ DT who could also get to the QB at 290 pounds. 6 sacks a year for 2 years and was 2nd on a good bengals defense in QB pressures. Some of you in hindshight wanted Red Bryant and his 35 million dollar deal, he will most likely be cut as I quote," he offers nothing as a pass rusher and fell off in run support". Fanene was a steal at 12 mill for 3 years with only 4 guaranteed, unfortunately he was addicted to pain killers and needed them to even practice. Tough luck.

    Then you have the rkarp theory that BB and Kraft knew Hernandez would shoot a man to death.  Either you believe that or you realize that again, it is just a shtty, bad luck situation where one of your best players decided to execute a human being. That is 11 mill in dead money. Hindsight champions of the world would call that poor management, others would see it for what it was. I know one thing for sure, paying Red Bryant 35 million and Goldson 42 million to play the same position as DMC (only not as well), certainly would have been not just "poor player management" it would have been horrible player management. 

    [/QUOTE]

    May be bad luck, but all three of those players also came cheap because there were warning signs that turned other teams off.  Lloyd had a reputation for underperforming and lack of drive, which led him to bounce around from team to team.  He was a known underachiever.  Fanene played less than half the snaps the year before coming to the Pats and had injury issues.  Hernandez slipped in the draft precisely because of character concerns.  The risks were known.  The Pats gambled on them and lost.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Hern slipped in the draft due to smoking a little ganja. The big concern at the time was he would smoke himself right out of the league.   Fanene lied about his injuries. Lloyd had a reputation for performing extremely well in McD's offense. Not much of a gamble at all on any of them except maybe Fanene.

    [/QUOTE]

    ^ Exactly, and considering Hernandez and Loyd combined to give us 250 receptions and 22 tds I'd say they were pretty good signings.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money


    Goldson is a SS. you wont tell me any different. We have DMC playing SS for us and Goldson plays 50 Lbs. heavier than DMC. He would immediately be our SS. Greogry plays like he's 40 pounds.

    Goldson is a SS

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Goldson is a SS. you wont tell me any different. We have DMC playing SS for us and Goldson plays 50 Lbs. heavier than DMC. He would immediately be our SS. Greogry plays like he's 40 pounds.

    Goldson is a SS

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok, Mark Barron plays SS, Goldson plays FS like his replacement Eric Reid does for SF where he also played.......Free Safety.

     

    Dashon Goldson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     

    Bucs "FS"Dashon Goldson's one-game suspension has been upheld.

     

    Goldson will miss Sunday's game against the Lions. Goldson got out of his last suspension, but was never going to be able to dodge this one. The league is tired of his illegal hits. Eligible to return in Week 13 against the Panthers, Goldson has not been playing at a high level this season. Tue, Nov 19, 2013 04:33:00 PM

     

     

     

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/_

     

    Dashon Goldson at 49ers training camp 2010-08-11 1.JPG. Goldson at 49ers training camp in August 2010. No. 38 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Free safety.

     

    ‎Early years - ‎College career - ‎Professional career - ‎References

     

     

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Some would call it "poor player management" others would call it pretty shtty luck. Lloyd came on as a very solid 4rth receiving option getting 900 yards and 4 tds playing behing Welker, Gronk and Hernandez(show me a number 4 receiver with that type of production other then WW for Denver) unfortunately the guy didn't want to play football anymore and decided to make B grade movies. Bummer.

     

    Fanene was the exact player you and I wanted on this team,  he was a gap integrity DE/ DT who could also get to the QB at 290 pounds. 6 sacks a year for 2 years and was 2nd on a good bengals defense in QB pressures. Some of you in hindshight wanted Red Bryant and his 35 million dollar deal, he will most likely be cut as I quote," he offers nothing as a pass rusher and fell off in run support". Fanene was a steal at 12 mill for 3 years with only 4 guaranteed, unfortunately he was addicted to pain killers and needed them to even practice. Tough luck.

    Then you have the rkarp theory that BB and Kraft knew Hernandez would shoot a man to death.  Either you believe that or you realize that again, it is just a shtty, bad luck situation where one of your best players decided to execute a human being. That is 11 mill in dead money. Hindsight champions of the world would call that poor management, others would see it for what it was. I know one thing for sure, paying Red Bryant 35 million and Goldson 42 million to play the same position as DMC (only not as well), certainly would have been not just "poor player management" it would have been horrible player management. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Let's go over that list True:

    Lloyd - known locker room cancer and bounced around from team to team. Reason for release, locker room issues. Not bad luck just Lloyd being Lloyd.

    Fanene - Never really starter in Cinn and was never offered a contract because of concerns over his lower body injury. The injury existed before the Pats signed him. Was released because of injury. Not bad luck, just bad medical work up and not investing further into red flags. BTW why would Red be cut? He was one of the main reasons Sea got to the SB. So far he's played up to that contract.

    Hern - now I don't think BB and Kraft knew about the shooting, that's silly. However, they did know about gang affliations, him further embracing those affliations in Florida, those were the reasons he fell in the draft (not pot), and they knew about the locker room issues in his rook year. Looking back at all those things maybe giving him a large extension making him a top 10 paid TE in the league was not the brightest idea. Not bad luck just Hern's nature that something was bound to happen (murder though I'm sure no one expected)

    All those things weren't bad luck, they were not reading the warning signs properly as all ended up failing because of the red flags that were already part of their past. I would say it's poor management to ignore red flag warning signs to save a couple of bucks.

    Btw True, you do know there is a difference between SS and FS right? Goldson plays SS and McCourty plays FS. Also they brought in Goldson a year before he signed that contract. They obviously liked him because they made him an offer. If they made him a realy offer of $3mil over multiple years instead of lowballing on a single year we wouldn't be talking about that contract. Actually considering what they paid Gregory, A. Wilson, and T. Wilson it's what they could of had Goldson for if they offered him what SF gave him over multiple years and we would of had a mid 2nd round pick back! As for Bryant how much has Fanene and Kelly added up to the lat couple years? I'll give you a hint it's the same cap space amount Bryant has cost Sea. For some reason I think Sea got more out of Bryant than we got out of Fanene and Kelly.

    Btw I keep telling you this but you just don't seem to understand. It's only hindsight if you didn't point to it before it happened, otherwise it's known as foresight.

    [/QUOTE]


    So you knew Cinci was going to take out Kelly's knee in game five before the season started? Kelly was on pace to get 8 sacks before that.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money


    True, still plays like a SS compares to the midgets we have

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Except that you are wrong, Goldson isn't a SS he is a FS, and and has had really 1 good year with 6 picks and a pro bowl trip, after signing his 42 million deal with 22 million guaranteed he had 70 tackles and a sack playing next to star "Strong Safety" Mark Barron and stud CB Revis.

    Red Bryant recived 35 million and has a 8.5 million cap hit. 

    Seahawks LE Red Bryant currently has an $8.5 million cap number for 2014. Working against Bryant is a $3 million roster bonus due on March 14. Bryant only played 488 snaps in 2013, offers next to nothing in terms of a pass rush, and turns 30 in April. The Seahawks are looking to clear as much cap space as possible with important players like DL Michael Bennett set to hit the open market next month   And like it or not admonishing the Hernandez selections and contract given is only done with 20-20 hindsight. Fanene lied about addiction to pain killers, his injury was in 2010, he turned in back to back good run support seasons with 6 sacks a piece and was the low risk, high reward signing that red Bryant was not. Only with the hindsight of what happened could he be considered a bad signing at a postion of need. 20-20.   So, in reality Red bryant for 35 million to play next to 50 million dollar Wilfork would have been a bad signing, and Goldson for 42 million to play about as well as Gregory played at another FS spot next to DMC also would have been a terrible decision.[/QUOTE]

    According to Pro Football Focus (subscription required), Bryant's plus-6.1 rating against the run is sixth amongst all defensive ends in the NFL, even though Bryant has played roughly half the number of snaps of those players ahead of him. On a per-snap basis, they have Bryant as the best run-stuffing DE in the league.

    oh look I can find websites that quotes one of your favorites saying he's one of the best run stuffing DE's in the league. Now I know we didn't have a running problem this year did we? Except mine actually references a website (Pro Football Focus), where is yours from? Oh yeah you reference his 2014 cap number but fail to say if they cut him it only costs $3mil in dead space this year and he has a $3mil in roster bonuses this year, so in otherwords if he didn't perform they could cut him for essentially what it cost to cut Fanene....... His "large" contract was all base or roster bonus after 2 years so you can cut him after 2 years and not have a large cap hit, actually similars to dead money to cut Fanene but just cherry pick numbers without showing the real cost.

    Btw it's comical you said Fanene was a low risk signing as it turns out he was all risk. It seems 31 other teams not to touch him. It's not like other teams were chomping at the bit at signing such a great player to such a low cost deal. What do you think they knew that the Pats didn't?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    So you knew Cinci was going to take out Kelly's knee in game five before the season started? Kelly was on pace to get 8 sacks before that.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope no clue, never said I knew that either. What I said was the cost of Fanene and Kelly combined would have been on par to what Bryant would have gotten. And as it turned out one move was more valuable to one team than the other was to the other and you can't deny that.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Except that you are wrong, Goldson isn't a SS he is a FS, and and has had really 1 good year with 6 picks and a pro bowl trip, after signing his 42 million deal with 22 million guaranteed he had 70 tackles and a sack playing next to star "Strong Safety" Mark Barron and stud CB Revis.

    Red Bryant recived 35 million and has a 8.5 million cap hit. 

    Seahawks LE Red Bryant currently has an $8.5 million cap number for 2014. Working against Bryant is a $3 million roster bonus due on March 14. Bryant only played 488 snaps in 2013, offers next to nothing in terms of a pass rush, and turns 30 in April. The Seahawks are looking to clear as much cap space as possible with important players like DL Michael Bennett set to hit the open market next month   And like it or not admonishing the Hernandez selections and contract given is only done with 20-20 hindsight. Fanene lied about addiction to pain killers, his injury was in 2010, he turned in back to back good run support seasons with 6 sacks a piece and was the low risk, high reward signing that red Bryant was not. Only with the hindsight of what happened could he be considered a bad signing at a postion of need. 20-20.   So, in reality Red bryant for 35 million to play next to 50 million dollar Wilfork would have been a bad signing, and Goldson for 42 million to play about as well as Gregory played at another FS spot next to DMC also would have been a terrible decision.[/QUOTE]

    According to Pro Football Focus (subscription required), Bryant's plus-6.1 rating against the run is sixth amongst all defensive ends in the NFL, even though Bryant has played roughly half the number of snaps of those players ahead of him. On a per-snap basis, they have Bryant as the best run-stuffing DE in the league.

    oh look I can find websites that quotes one of your favorites saying he's one of the best run stuffing DE's in the league. Now I know we didn't have a running problem this year did we? Except mine actually references a website (Pro Football Focus), where is yours from? Oh yeah you reference his 2014 cap number but fail to say if they cut him it only costs $3mil in dead space this year and he has a $3mil in roster bonuses this year, so in otherwords if he didn't perform they could cut him for essentially what it cost to cut Fanene....... His "large" contract was all base or roster bonus after 2 years so you can cut him after 2 years and not have a large cap hit, actually similars to dead money to cut Fanene but just cherry pick numbers without showing the real cost.

    Btw it's comical you said Fanene was a low risk signing as it turns out he was all risk. It seems 31 other teams not to touch him. It's not like other teams were chomping at the bit at signing such a great player to such a low cost deal. What do you think they knew that the Pats didn't?

    [/QUOTE]

    That is my point, why pay a guy 35 million who's only value is against the run while we already have Wilfork who is dominate against the run? So we sign Kelly, a player who can hold the gap while still getting after the QB for a fraction of the cost! If we signed red and he tore his acl we would have an 8.2 million dollar cap hit for a situational run defender instead of an all around solid DT at 1.8 or whatver his cap hit is. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    So you knew Cinci was going to take out Kelly's knee in game five before the season started? Kelly was on pace to get 8 sacks before that.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope no clue, never said I knew that either. What I said was the cost of Fanene and Kelly combined would have been on par to what Bryant would have gotten. And as it turned out one move was more valuable to one team than the other was to the other and you can't deny that.

    [/QUOTE]

    In hind sight.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    The ambiguity is also due to the fact of unknown contract clauses. DMC's contract jumped almost $4M due to a bonus based on snaps played. Poor decision by management based on the position change, as a CB in this defense takes a much tougher physical toll than a FS in this defense

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    So you knew Cinci was going to take out Kelly's knee in game five before the season started? Kelly was on pace to get 8 sacks before that.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nope no clue, never said I knew that either. What I said was the cost of Fanene and Kelly combined would have been on par to what Bryant would have gotten. And as it turned out one move was more valuable to one team than the other was to the other and you can't deny that.

    [/QUOTE]


    No, you said it wasn't hindsight if you railed about it before hand.

    "Btw I keep telling you this but you just don't seem to understand. It's only hindsight if you didn't point to it before it happened, otherwise it's known as foresight."

    If Kelly hadn't gotten hurt he would have had a vastly superior season compared to Bryant. If Kelly hadn't had the bad LUCK to have his knee taken out your above premise is wrong and BB would have gotten a better player for the same money.

    In this case your foresight was non-existent and your hindsight was 20-20!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I always use Miguel's. Best site I've found so far and one that even the big boys quote:

    http://patscap.com/

    Miguel's has them at $5.6mil because of money coming back from Fanene and Lloyd. The $15mil people might be referencing is 2013. They had $15.3mil in dead money so if people are referencing how much dead money they had last offseason from low cost players as a reason why they could if spent more for higher quality players if not for poor player management with certain players that's where that number could come from.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Some would call it "poor player management" others would call it pretty shtty luck. Lloyd came on as a very solid 4rth receiving option getting 900 yards and 4 tds playing behing Welker, Gronk and Hernandez(show me a number 4 receiver with that type of production other then WW for Denver) unfortunately the guy didn't want to play football anymore and decided to make B grade movies. Bummer.

     

    Fanene was the exact player you and I wanted on this team,  he was a gap integrity DE/ DT who could also get to the QB at 290 pounds. 6 sacks a year for 2 years and was 2nd on a good bengals defense in QB pressures. Some of you in hindshight wanted Red Bryant and his 35 million dollar deal, he will most likely be cut as I quote," he offers nothing as a pass rusher and fell off in run support". Fanene was a steal at 12 mill for 3 years with only 4 guaranteed, unfortunately he was addicted to pain killers and needed them to even practice. Tough luck.

    Then you have the rkarp theory that BB and Kraft knew Hernandez would shoot a man to death.  Either you believe that or you realize that again, it is just a shtty, bad luck situation where one of your best players decided to execute a human being. That is 11 mill in dead money. Hindsight champions of the world would call that poor management, others would see it for what it was. I know one thing for sure, paying Red Bryant 35 million and Goldson 42 million to play the same position as DMC (only not as well), certainly would have been not just "poor player management" it would have been horrible player management. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Duh duh dah da nah!! It's a bird?! Is a plane?! No it's free agent bust saver man!!! Here to save the day!

    You're really going to swoop in and call Llyod a fourth receiving option, like it's a good thing? A guy who we cut a year later? Nice!

    And I've got to admit I've never even heard anyone come to the defense of signing Fanene, until you did right now...nice! Nice Bust Saver Man! Nice!

    What's next? You going to justify the Rasi Dowling pick? How about the Ocho Cinco trade? We paid him 7 million per you know? Not that we actually paid him much of that, he just ate 7 million in dead money...probably a good thing to "Free Agent Bust Saver Man"...no?

    And yeah yeah...Bryant and Goldson wouldn't of helped this team win a thing, not when Fanene and Gregory were leading the charge, right? We're all so spoiled, except for FABSM!!

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Except that you are wrong, Goldson isn't a SS he is a FS, and and has had really 1 good year with 6 picks and a pro bowl trip, after signing his 42 million deal with 22 million guaranteed he had 70 tackles and a sack playing next to star "Strong Safety" Mark Barron and stud CB Revis.

    Red Bryant recived 35 million and has a 8.5 million cap hit. 

    Seahawks LE Red Bryant currently has an $8.5 million cap number for 2014. Working against Bryant is a $3 million roster bonus due on March 14. Bryant only played 488 snaps in 2013, offers next to nothing in terms of a pass rush, and turns 30 in April. The Seahawks are looking to clear as much cap space as possible with important players like DL Michael Bennett set to hit the open market next month   And like it or not admonishing the Hernandez selections and contract given is only done with 20-20 hindsight. Fanene lied about addiction to pain killers, his injury was in 2010, he turned in back to back good run support seasons with 6 sacks a piece and was the low risk, high reward signing that red Bryant was not. Only with the hindsight of what happened could he be considered a bad signing at a postion of need. 20-20.   So, in reality Red bryant for 35 million to play next to 50 million dollar Wilfork would have been a bad signing, and Goldson for 42 million to play about as well as Gregory played at another FS spot next to DMC also would have been a terrible decision.[/QUOTE]

    According to Pro Football Focus (subscription required), Bryant's plus-6.1 rating against the run is sixth amongst all defensive ends in the NFL, even though Bryant has played roughly half the number of snaps of those players ahead of him. On a per-snap basis, they have Bryant as the best run-stuffing DE in the league.

    oh look I can find websites that quotes one of your favorites saying he's one of the best run stuffing DE's in the league. Now I know we didn't have a running problem this year did we? Except mine actually references a website (Pro Football Focus), where is yours from? Oh yeah you reference his 2014 cap number but fail to say if they cut him it only costs $3mil in dead space this year and he has a $3mil in roster bonuses this year, so in otherwords if he didn't perform they could cut him for essentially what it cost to cut Fanene....... His "large" contract was all base or roster bonus after 2 years so you can cut him after 2 years and not have a large cap hit, actually similars to dead money to cut Fanene but just cherry pick numbers without showing the real cost.

    Btw it's comical you said Fanene was a low risk signing as it turns out he was all risk. It seems 31 other teams not to touch him. It's not like other teams were chomping at the bit at signing such a great player to such a low cost deal. What do you think they knew that the Pats didn't?

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank you!

     
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