Patriots Dead Money

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    The Patriots have a total of $8,533,721 in dead money for the 2014 league year as of now, which is broken down in the contracts below: 

     

    Fullback Ben Bartholomew: $6,667 

    Defensive tackle Dewayne Cherrington: $667 

    Safety Kanorris Davis: $3,334 

    Cornerback Ras-I Dowling: $589,382 

    Tight end Daniel Fells: $333,334 

    Tight end Brandon Ford: $2,000 

    Defensive end Justin Francis: $2,334 

    Wide receiver Lavelle Hawkins: $75,000 

    Tight end Aaron Hernandez: $7,500,000 

    Cornerback Brandon Jones: $2,334 

    Offensive lineman Josh Kline: $2,667 

    Offensive lineman Chris McDonald: $3,334 

    Cornerback Stephon Morris: $1,667 

    Offensive lineman Matt Stankiewitch: $1,667 

    Tight end Zach Sudfeld: $8,000 

    Long snapper Mike Zupancic: $1,334 

     

    (Both Kanorris Davis and Josh Kline are on the Patriots' roster, but the dead money stems from contracts signed before their current deals.) 

     

    The Patriots continue to explore options for relief from the Hernandez contract, which accounts for 87.9 percent of the dead money for 2014. If that $7.5 million is somehow retrieved -- or at least partially -- the team's outlook as it relates to dead money is far better. 

     

    The figure of just more than $8.5 million in dead money doesn't cripple the Patriots' salary cap outlook, but teams also work hard to avoid dead money because of how it restricts spending. 

     

    The Raiders had more than $55 million in dead money during the 2013 season, something that dramatically impacted their ability to develop a nucleus of talent. 

     

    Dead money figures are another reminder of how important shrewd cap management is in the NFL.



    Like I said, bad luck. If Hernandez didn't kill somebody we are in a great position on offense and have an ample amount of cap room, with less needs to fill. 1.2 million in dead money for a team coming off it's 3rd afc championship appearance in a row.



    That DM is a result of last years cuts after June 1 that is counted against this years cap.

    They haven't even began to cut this years players.

    That # will increase significantly. Probably double.

    No, they're not in good shape at all.

    The Seahawks have less than 900k as of now and they won the SB.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    The seahawks have no dead money because they haven't had to pay out many contracts yet. When they hand out a few 40 million dollar deals, that will change. See, that's what happens when you win playoff games and Super Bowls.

    Also I doubt the number will double as they are looking at 1 million for Soap at the most of the cuts. Probably 3 or 4 mill. A few extensions and we open an ample amount of cap room. I know you don't want to hear that because, well for whatever reasons, but it's true. I'm sorry you're running out of excuses.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    When other teams take a guy like Hernandez off their draft board it's hard to argue that he was only a risk in "hindsight."  Lots of teams had the foresight not to even consider him because of character issues.  

    The warning signs with Lloyd were also abundant . . . despite some talent he was let go from multiple teams for locker room or attitude issues.  And Fanene was coming off an injury and had never been more than a spot starter.  Saying the risks were apparent only in hindsight is completely disengenuous because other teams made decisions based on their assessment of the risks ahead of time. 

     

     



    Let's not go all high and mighty here. I call a huge cup of BS here!!

     

    To my knowledge there were only three teams that attempted to say they had Hernandez off the board. The "Bengals" were one of them. Seriously? Do you really believe the Bengals had him off the board?

    Here is a quote I like that was written.

    "Of course, it’s easy for NFL executives to come forward now and say they wouldn’t have drafted Hernandez. A month ago, before all the revelations about Hernandez’s off-field activities began to surface, I don’t remember any NFL executives saying they wouldn’t have drafted Hernandez. That’s why the NFL’s security chief, who knows how teams investigate players’ backgrounds prior to the draft, is calling criticism of the Patriots 20/20 hindsight."

     



    Teams normally don't reveal anything about their draft boards so don't expect lots of evidence. He did, however, fall to the fourth round.  Actions speak louder than words.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to DeadAhead2's comment:

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    I should have known that starting this thread would result in a regurgitation of the Aaron Hernandez issue at some point.



    Could be worse, could be talking about Brady. But, really it's a point of discussion because it does greatly affect this offseason. The amount of dead money is a starting DT or CB or resigning Edelman. So, it does spark conversation of how wise it was to extend him to that much guaranteed money knowing his past and how much of that past the team actually knew. You have to assume they know more than the fans so knowing what you know now (minus the murder just history prior to that point) would you have given that type of contract to him? Not sure I would, I'd still try to resign him but make him a top 10 paid TE I might have waited out that rook contract and tried for something a little less guaranteed and most certainly would have included a behavior clause.



    After the kid played the way he did for us and had zero off field issues, yes we all absolutely give him that contract and make him and Gronk the corner stones of our offense. ONLY in hindsight can you sit there and say it was a bad move.



    Forget his off the field stuff or prior knowledge...

    his on the field production didn't warrant that type of contract. Look at his stats. Actually quite pedestrian.



    Can you name a better "move" TE in the league?  He may not quite be Jimmy Graham because he doesn't have the range or red zone production, but to seriously minimize Hernandez's skills is completely moronic.

    The idea was to pay ahead of the market so you don't get into bidding wards.  NOs may need to tag Graham at 6 million and then walk from Graham, unable to afford him past 2014.

    That was the point with both Gronk and Hernandez's contracts.  



    I can't, but paying ahead didn't make sense to me in this case because of his injuries and dropsies. How many games did Hern play in his time here? How many drops did he have? 

    PI like him as a player, but never liked him for that money. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    I should have known that starting this thread would result in a regurgitation of the Aaron Hernandez issue at some point.

     



    Could be worse, could be talking about Brady. But, really it's a point of discussion because it does greatly affect this offseason. The amount of dead money is a starting DT or CB or resigning Edelman. So, it does spark conversation of how wise it was to extend him to that much guaranteed money knowing his past and how much of that past the team actually knew. You have to assume they know more than the fans so knowing what you know now (minus the murder just history prior to that point) would you have given that type of contract to him? Not sure I would, I'd still try to resign him but make him a top 10 paid TE I might have waited out that rook contract and tried for something a little less guaranteed and most certainly would have included a behavior clause.

     



    After the kid played the way he did for us and had zero off field issues, yes we all absolutely give him that contract and make him and Gronk the corner stones of our offense. ONLY in hindsight can you sit there and say it was a bad move.



    Forget his off the field stuff or prior knowledge...

    his on the field production didn't warrant that type of contract. Look at his stats. Actually quite pedestrian.



    He caught 70% of his targets, good for top 10 in the league. He was an integral piece of Tom Brady's best season of his career,36 tds to 4 interceptions and the only unanimous mvp in league history. If he didn't kill anybody he would fill the void left by Welker and be absolutley killing it from all over the field. He was a special talent that fit very well with Brady's declining deep ball passing game. BB knew what he was doing...as usual.



    According to PFF his drop rate in his last season was over 16%, second worst among TEs with at least 30 catches.  He dropped some key passes in the playoffs too.  Sure, every player has drops, but Welker is crucified here for his drops.  Hernandez was much worse.  Not saying he was a bad player, but let's not put the murdering thug on a pedestal just to be able to blindly worship every player move Belichick makes.  Hernandez was a big gamble that didn't pay off. 

     

    If the Jets had done the same thing, Rusty would never shut up about how dumb they were.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    I should have known that starting this thread would result in a regurgitation of the Aaron Hernandez issue at some point.

     



    Could be worse, could be talking about Brady. But, really it's a point of discussion because it does greatly affect this offseason. The amount of dead money is a starting DT or CB or resigning Edelman. So, it does spark conversation of how wise it was to extend him to that much guaranteed money knowing his past and how much of that past the team actually knew. You have to assume they know more than the fans so knowing what you know now (minus the murder just history prior to that point) would you have given that type of contract to him? Not sure I would, I'd still try to resign him but make him a top 10 paid TE I might have waited out that rook contract and tried for something a little less guaranteed and most certainly would have included a behavior clause.

     

     



    After the kid played the way he did for us and had zero off field issues, yes we all absolutely give him that contract and make him and Gronk the corner stones of our offense. ONLY in hindsight can you sit there and say it was a bad move.

     



    Forget his off the field stuff or prior knowledge...

    his on the field production didn't warrant that type of contract. Look at his stats. Actually quite pedestrian.



    He caught 70% of his targets, good for top 10 in the league. He was an integral piece of Tom Brady's best season of his career,36 tds to 4 interceptions and the only unanimous mvp in league history. If he didn't kill anybody he would fill the void left by Welker and be absolutley killing it from all over the field. He was a special talent that fit very well with Brady's declining deep ball passing game. BB knew what he was doing...as usual.



    According to PFF his drop rate in his last season was over 16%, second worst among TEs with at least 30 catches.  He dropped some key passes in the playoffs too.  Sure, every player has drops, but Welker is crucified here for his drops.  Hernandez was much worse.  Not saying he was a bad player, but let's not put the murdering thug on a pedestal just to be able to blindly worship every player move Belichick makes.  Hernandez was a big gamble that didn't pay off. 

     

    If the Jets had done the same thing, Rusty would never shut up about how dumb they were.

     



    And lets not pretend it was hug gamble to draft this kid in the 4rth round as shown below he had lots of measurables, and after being a pro for 2 years we decided to lock him up for the future. If the kid did great for 2 full seasons then why not sign him? What is the gamble? Ther wasn't one. Only using your tactful eye for hindsight can you see a gamble. I suppose Gronk is now a gambe too because a guy hit him in the knee as hard as he could right when he planted. 

    I give up.

     

     

    While psychological profiles can be subjective and far from foolproof, NFL experts say the majority of teams use them to guide their draft choices.

    When it comes to Hernandez's acumen for football, the report didn't mince words: It considered him a remarkably qualified candidate, giving him an overall "motivational and mental" test score of 10 out of 10.

    In the section of the report labeled "Sigma Motivation" in which Hernandez got a 1 out of 10 in "Social Maturity," he received a perfect 10 for "Focus," two nines in "Self-Efficacy" and "Receptivity to Coaching" and 7 out of 10 for "Dedication." In a section labeled "Mental Ability," Hernandez was given a perfect 10 in "Mental Quickness."

    Under "Strengths," the report listed Hernandez's dedication, work ethic and self-confidence. It predicted he would quickly recover from mistakes and bad breaks. "Hernandez sees himself as a football player above all else," the report said. "He will place a high priority on football and what it takes to be successful." Hernandez was also described as being highly responsive to coaching.

    In the section marked "Weaknesses," the report predicted Hernandez might get along well with most of his teammates, but "will find very little time to help them." His responses, it added, "suggest he enjoys living on the edge of acceptable behavior and that he may be prone to partying too much and doing questionable things that could be seen as a problem for him and his team."

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    Belichick's whole approach is to try to get high value at low cost.  There's inhertent risk in that strategy.  It's not necessarily a bad strategy, but let's not pretend the risks aren't there.  Good players come at low cost only because there are risks.  People thought both Gronk and Hernandez were good players.  People also saw risk (character and injury) and because people saw risk the cost of thoses players dropped.  The risks were realized.  The Pats got some good...but in the end at high cost.  In the end, value probably was not equal to cost, at least for dead man, dead money Hernandez.  Gronk is still to be seen, but this is looking like another   big question mark.  When healthy he's the best TE in the game, but will he ever make the final playoff game in a season again? 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    I should have known that starting this thread would result in a regurgitation of the Aaron Hernandez issue at some point.

     



    Could be worse, could be talking about Brady. But, really it's a point of discussion because it does greatly affect this offseason. The amount of dead money is a starting DT or CB or resigning Edelman. So, it does spark conversation of how wise it was to extend him to that much guaranteed money knowing his past and how much of that past the team actually knew. You have to assume they know more than the fans so knowing what you know now (minus the murder just history prior to that point) would you have given that type of contract to him? Not sure I would, I'd still try to resign him but make him a top 10 paid TE I might have waited out that rook contract and tried for something a little less guaranteed and most certainly would have included a behavior clause.

     

     



    After the kid played the way he did for us and had zero off field issues, yes we all absolutely give him that contract and make him and Gronk the corner stones of our offense. ONLY in hindsight can you sit there and say it was a bad move.

     



    Forget his off the field stuff or prior knowledge...

    his on the field production didn't warrant that type of contract. Look at his stats. Actually quite pedestrian.



    He caught 70% of his targets, good for top 10 in the league. He was an integral piece of Tom Brady's best season of his career,36 tds to 4 interceptions and the only unanimous mvp in league history. If he didn't kill anybody he would fill the void left by Welker and be absolutley killing it from all over the field. He was a special talent that fit very well with Brady's declining deep ball passing game. BB knew what he was doing...as usual.



    According to PFF his drop rate in his last season was over 16%, second worst among TEs with at least 30 catches.  He dropped some key passes in the playoffs too.  Sure, every player has drops, but Welker is crucified here for his drops.  Hernandez was much worse.  Not saying he was a bad player, but let's not put the murdering thug on a pedestal just to be able to blindly worship every player move Belichick makes.  Hernandez was a big gamble that didn't pay off. 

     

    If the Jets had done the same thing, Rusty would never shut up about how dumb they were.

     



    And lets not pretend it was hug gamble to draft this kid in the 4rth round as shown below he had lots of measurables, and after being a pro for 2 years we decided to lock him up for the future. If the kid did great for 2 full seasons then why not sign him? What is the gamble? Ther wasn't one. Only using your tactful eye for hindsight can you see a gamble. I suppose Gronk is now a gambe too because a guy hit him in the knee as hard as he could right when he planted. 

    I give up.

     

     

    While psychological profiles can be subjective and far from foolproof, NFL experts say the majority of teams use them to guide their draft choices.

    When it comes to Hernandez's acumen for football, the report didn't mince words: It considered him a remarkably qualified candidate, giving him an overall "motivational and mental" test score of 10 out of 10.

    In the section of the report labeled "Sigma Motivation" in which Hernandez got a 1 out of 10 in "Social Maturity," he received a perfect 10 for "Focus," two nines in "Self-Efficacy" and "Receptivity to Coaching" and 7 out of 10 for "Dedication." In a section labeled "Mental Ability," Hernandez was given a perfect 10 in "Mental Quickness."

    Under "Strengths," the report listed Hernandez's dedication, work ethic and self-confidence. It predicted he would quickly recover from mistakes and bad breaks. "Hernandez sees himself as a football player above all else," the report said. "He will place a high priority on football and what it takes to be successful." Hernandez was also described as being highly responsive to coaching.

    In the section marked "Weaknesses," the report predicted Hernandez might get along well with most of his teammates, but "will find very little time to help them." His responses, it added, "suggest he enjoys living on the edge of acceptable behavior and that he may be prone to partying too much and doing questionable things that could be seen as a problem for him and his team."



    Why not highlight this?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    I should have known that starting this thread would result in a regurgitation of the Aaron Hernandez issue at some point.

     



    Could be worse, could be talking about Brady. But, really it's a point of discussion because it does greatly affect this offseason. The amount of dead money is a starting DT or CB or resigning Edelman. So, it does spark conversation of how wise it was to extend him to that much guaranteed money knowing his past and how much of that past the team actually knew. You have to assume they know more than the fans so knowing what you know now (minus the murder just history prior to that point) would you have given that type of contract to him? Not sure I would, I'd still try to resign him but make him a top 10 paid TE I might have waited out that rook contract and tried for something a little less guaranteed and most certainly would have included a behavior clause.

     

     



    After the kid played the way he did for us and had zero off field issues, yes we all absolutely give him that contract and make him and Gronk the corner stones of our offense. ONLY in hindsight can you sit there and say it was a bad move.

     



    Forget his off the field stuff or prior knowledge...

    his on the field production didn't warrant that type of contract. Look at his stats. Actually quite pedestrian.



    He caught 70% of his targets, good for top 10 in the league. He was an integral piece of Tom Brady's best season of his career,36 tds to 4 interceptions and the only unanimous mvp in league history. If he didn't kill anybody he would fill the void left by Welker and be absolutley killing it from all over the field. He was a special talent that fit very well with Brady's declining deep ball passing game. BB knew what he was doing...as usual.



    According to PFF his drop rate in his last season was over 16%, second worst among TEs with at least 30 catches.  He dropped some key passes in the playoffs too.  Sure, every player has drops, but Welker is crucified here for his drops.  Hernandez was much worse.  Not saying he was a bad player, but let's not put the murdering thug on a pedestal just to be able to blindly worship every player move Belichick makes.  Hernandez was a big gamble that didn't pay off. 

     

    If the Jets had done the same thing, Rusty would never shut up about how dumb they were.

     



    And lets not pretend it was hug gamble to draft this kid in the 4rth round as shown below he had lots of measurables, and after being a pro for 2 years we decided to lock him up for the future. If the kid did great for 2 full seasons then why not sign him? What is the gamble? Ther wasn't one. Only using your tactful eye for hindsight can you see a gamble. I suppose Gronk is now a gambe too because a guy hit him in the knee as hard as he could right when he planted. 

    I give up.

     

     

    While psychological profiles can be subjective and far from foolproof, NFL experts say the majority of teams use them to guide their draft choices.

    When it comes to Hernandez's acumen for football, the report didn't mince words: It considered him a remarkably qualified candidate, giving him an overall "motivational and mental" test score of 10 out of 10.

    In the section of the report labeled "Sigma Motivation" in which Hernandez got a 1 out of 10 in "Social Maturity," he received a perfect 10 for "Focus," two nines in "Self-Efficacy" and "Receptivity to Coaching" and 7 out of 10 for "Dedication." In a section labeled "Mental Ability," Hernandez was given a perfect 10 in "Mental Quickness."

    Under "Strengths," the report listed Hernandez's dedication, work ethic and self-confidence. It predicted he would quickly recover from mistakes and bad breaks. "Hernandez sees himself as a football player above all else," the report said. "He will place a high priority on football and what it takes to be successful." Hernandez was also described as being highly responsive to coaching.

    In the section marked "Weaknesses," the report predicted Hernandez might get along well with most of his teammates, but "will find very little time to help them." His responses, it added, "suggest he enjoys living on the edge of acceptable behavior and that he may be prone to partying too much and doing questionable things that could be seen as a problem for him and his team."



    Why not highlight this?



    Does that outweigh all the other measurables?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    Belichick's whole approach is to try to get high value at low cost.  There's inhertent risk in that strategy.  It's not necessarily a bad strategy, but let's not pretend the risks aren't there.Everybody has risk, is it not "riskier" to pay top rated FA's a bunch of money?

      Good players come at low cost only because there are risks.  People thought both Gronk and Hernandez were good players.Were Gronk and Hernandez not good players now?

      People also saw risk (character and injury) and because people saw risk the cost of thoses players dropped.  The risks were realized.  The Pats got some good...but in the end at high cost.  In the end, value probably was not equal to cost, at least for dead man, dead money Hernandez.  Gronk is still to be seen, but this is looking like another   big question mark.  When healthy he's the best TE in the game, but will he ever make the final playoff game in a season again? 

    They were drafted in the 2nd and 4rth rounds, Gronk was a known favorite to go to the Ravens so BB swooped in and stole him. I guess Pitta was a risk too because he landed on IR?

    After drafting these guys, seeing them play very well and being the 2 main factors in the new 2 TE set which lead to Brady's only unanimous MVP in league history, I would say that the only risk involved in extending them was whether or not these guys would incur some freak injuries....which the same risk applies to every single athlete in sports history.




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:



    That DM is a result of last years cuts after June 1 that is counted against this years cap.

    They haven't even began to cut this years players.

    That # will increase significantly. Probably double.

    No, they're not in good shape at all.

    The Seahawks have less than 900k as of now and they won the SB.



    If they cut Wilfork, Kelly, Soap, Wilson, Connolly and Gregory outright the DM wouldn't double.  They aren't going to do that so you should chill.

    The Seahawks have no dead money because all of their best players are on rookie contracts so they didn't have to cut any of their dead weight.  Sidney Rice and Zach Miller had a combined cap hit this past season of almost 21 million.  Those are bad contracts.  Most teams would have cut them and incurred a significant amount of dead money.  The Seahawks have the luxury of being able to hang on to overpriced JAGs.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    I should have known that starting this thread would result in a regurgitation of the Aaron Hernandez issue at some point.

     



    Could be worse, could be talking about Brady. But, really it's a point of discussion because it does greatly affect this offseason. The amount of dead money is a starting DT or CB or resigning Edelman. So, it does spark conversation of how wise it was to extend him to that much guaranteed money knowing his past and how much of that past the team actually knew. You have to assume they know more than the fans so knowing what you know now (minus the murder just history prior to that point) would you have given that type of contract to him? Not sure I would, I'd still try to resign him but make him a top 10 paid TE I might have waited out that rook contract and tried for something a little less guaranteed and most certainly would have included a behavior clause.

     

     



    After the kid played the way he did for us and had zero off field issues, yes we all absolutely give him that contract and make him and Gronk the corner stones of our offense. ONLY in hindsight can you sit there and say it was a bad move.

     



    Forget his off the field stuff or prior knowledge...

    his on the field production didn't warrant that type of contract. Look at his stats. Actually quite pedestrian.



    He caught 70% of his targets, good for top 10 in the league. He was an integral piece of Tom Brady's best season of his career,36 tds to 4 interceptions and the only unanimous mvp in league history. If he didn't kill anybody he would fill the void left by Welker and be absolutley killing it from all over the field. He was a special talent that fit very well with Brady's declining deep ball passing game. BB knew what he was doing...as usual.



    According to PFF his drop rate in his last season was over 16%, second worst among TEs with at least 30 catches.  He dropped some key passes in the playoffs too.  Sure, every player has drops, but Welker is crucified here for his drops.  Hernandez was much worse.  Not saying he was a bad player, but let's not put the murdering thug on a pedestal just to be able to blindly worship every player move Belichick makes.  Hernandez was a big gamble that didn't pay off. 

     

    If the Jets had done the same thing, Rusty would never shut up about how dumb they were.

     



    And lets not pretend it was hug gamble to draft this kid in the 4rth round as shown below he had lots of measurables, and after being a pro for 2 years we decided to lock him up for the future. If the kid did great for 2 full seasons then why not sign him? What is the gamble? Ther wasn't one. Only using your tactful eye for hindsight can you see a gamble. I suppose Gronk is now a gambe too because a guy hit him in the knee as hard as he could right when he planted. 

    I give up.

     

     

    While psychological profiles can be subjective and far from foolproof, NFL experts say the majority of teams use them to guide their draft choices.

    When it comes to Hernandez's acumen for football, the report didn't mince words: It considered him a remarkably qualified candidate, giving him an overall "motivational and mental" test score of 10 out of 10.

    In the section of the report labeled "Sigma Motivation" in which Hernandez got a 1 out of 10 in "Social Maturity," he received a perfect 10 for "Focus," two nines in "Self-Efficacy" and "Receptivity to Coaching" and 7 out of 10 for "Dedication." In a section labeled "Mental Ability," Hernandez was given a perfect 10 in "Mental Quickness."

    Under "Strengths," the report listed Hernandez's dedication, work ethic and self-confidence. It predicted he would quickly recover from mistakes and bad breaks. "Hernandez sees himself as a football player above all else," the report said. "He will place a high priority on football and what it takes to be successful." Hernandez was also described as being highly responsive to coaching.

    In the section marked "Weaknesses," the report predicted Hernandez might get along well with most of his teammates, but "will find very little time to help them." His responses, it added, "suggest he enjoys living on the edge of acceptable behavior and that he may be prone to partying too much and doing questionable things that could be seen as a problem for him and his team."




    That's a red flag, in case you don't know^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    I should have known that starting this thread would result in a regurgitation of the Aaron Hernandez issue at some point.

     



    Could be worse, could be talking about Brady. But, really it's a point of discussion because it does greatly affect this offseason. The amount of dead money is a starting DT or CB or resigning Edelman. So, it does spark conversation of how wise it was to extend him to that much guaranteed money knowing his past and how much of that past the team actually knew. You have to assume they know more than the fans so knowing what you know now (minus the murder just history prior to that point) would you have given that type of contract to him? Not sure I would, I'd still try to resign him but make him a top 10 paid TE I might have waited out that rook contract and tried for something a little less guaranteed and most certainly would have included a behavior clause.

     

     



    After the kid played the way he did for us and had zero off field issues, yes we all absolutely give him that contract and make him and Gronk the corner stones of our offense. ONLY in hindsight can you sit there and say it was a bad move.

     



    Forget his off the field stuff or prior knowledge...

    his on the field production didn't warrant that type of contract. Look at his stats. Actually quite pedestrian.



    He caught 70% of his targets, good for top 10 in the league. He was an integral piece of Tom Brady's best season of his career,36 tds to 4 interceptions and the only unanimous mvp in league history. If he didn't kill anybody he would fill the void left by Welker and be absolutley killing it from all over the field. He was a special talent that fit very well with Brady's declining deep ball passing game. BB knew what he was doing...as usual.



    According to PFF his drop rate in his last season was over 16%, second worst among TEs with at least 30 catches.  He dropped some key passes in the playoffs too.  Sure, every player has drops, but Welker is crucified here for his drops.  Hernandez was much worse.  Not saying he was a bad player, but let's not put the murdering thug on a pedestal just to be able to blindly worship every player move Belichick makes.  Hernandez was a big gamble that didn't pay off. 

     

    If the Jets had done the same thing, Rusty would never shut up about how dumb they were.

     



    And lets not pretend it was hug gamble to draft this kid in the 4rth round as shown below he had lots of measurables, and after being a pro for 2 years we decided to lock him up for the future. If the kid did great for 2 full seasons then why not sign him? What is the gamble? Ther wasn't one. Only using your tactful eye for hindsight can you see a gamble. I suppose Gronk is now a gambe too because a guy hit him in the knee as hard as he could right when he planted. 

    I give up.

     

     

    While psychological profiles can be subjective and far from foolproof, NFL experts say the majority of teams use them to guide their draft choices.

    When it comes to Hernandez's acumen for football, the report didn't mince words: It considered him a remarkably qualified candidate, giving him an overall "motivational and mental" test score of 10 out of 10.

    In the section of the report labeled "Sigma Motivation" in which Hernandez got a 1 out of 10 in "Social Maturity," he received a perfect 10 for "Focus," two nines in "Self-Efficacy" and "Receptivity to Coaching" and 7 out of 10 for "Dedication." In a section labeled "Mental Ability," Hernandez was given a perfect 10 in "Mental Quickness."

    Under "Strengths," the report listed Hernandez's dedication, work ethic and self-confidence. It predicted he would quickly recover from mistakes and bad breaks. "Hernandez sees himself as a football player above all else," the report said. "He will place a high priority on football and what it takes to be successful." Hernandez was also described as being highly responsive to coaching.

    In the section marked "Weaknesses," the report predicted Hernandez might get along well with most of his teammates, but "will find very little time to help them." His responses, it added, "suggest he enjoys living on the edge of acceptable behavior and that he may be prone to partying too much and doing questionable things that could be seen as a problem for him and his team."



    Why not highlight this?



    Does that outweigh all the other measurables?



    It proves the risks were known.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    That is 1 poor score compared to 7 great scores. I included that last paragraph on purpose to watch you guys grasp at straws, or in this case...a straw. I bet most players in the NFL are in the same boat, unless you think the measuring stick should be perfect score at all facets of life...actually you probably do.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     


    Does that outweigh all the other measurables?



    When giving him a big contract that could hamstring the team if he gets in trouble off the field of course it does! True, you keep saying that you don't sign players to big contracts because you don't know what will happen and yet here's a player who by all reports has/had off the field social issues (1 out of 10 from your own report) in a league desperately trying to clean up it's image and you think it was worth giving him a big money deal? Then why let Lloyd go. You thought it was a good deal. The only issue was social interaction in the locker room yet they decided to let him go after a single season, so obviously the Pats think it's a pretty big deal too.

    Question True would you draft Colt Lyerla in the 4th? By all accounts he's as good a pass catching receiver as Hern was. He'll be lucky to get drafted this year because of off field issues, most of which are more minor than what Hern had coming out.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    Another point about dead money is that the Patriots are getting a 2.85 million dollar credit to their cap this year because of some weird thing with Lloyd's contract and the Fanene settlement which were both counted as dead money in 2013. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    That is 1 poor score compared to 7 great scores. I included that last paragraph on purpose to watch you guys grasp at straws, or in this case...a straw. I bet most players in the NFL are in the same boat, unless you think the measuring stick should be perfect score at all facets of life...actually you probably do.



    Keep that head firmly buried in the sand, Champ. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     


    Does that outweigh all the other measurables?



    When giving him a big contract that could hamstring the team if he gets in trouble off the field of course it does! True, you keep saying that you don't sign players to big contracts because you don't know what will happen and yet here's a player who by all reports has/had off the field social issues (1 out of 10 from your own report) in a league desperately trying to clean up it's image and you think it was worth giving him a big money deal? Then why let Lloyd go. You thought it was a good deal. The only issue was social interaction in the locker room yet they decided to let him go after a single season, so obviously the Pats think it's a pretty big deal too.

    Question True would you draft Colt Lyerla in the 4th? By all accounts he's as good a pass catching receiver as Hern was. He'll be lucky to get drafted this year because of off field issues, most of which are more minor than what Hern had coming out.



    Doing cocaine is more minor then what Hern did? What did Hern do exactly?

    A poor score on social interaction(even though it stated he would likely get along great with teammates) outweighs him being a "remarkably qualified candidate" does it eng? how about great mental ability, self efficiency, ability to recover from mistakes, receptivity to coaching? No big deal? 

    Ok, how about he played for the greatest coach in the league for 2 years without a peep or problem, and that coach gave him a 40 million dollar extension? No good? 

    Uh. Ok.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    That is 1 poor score compared to 7 great scores. I included that last paragraph on purpose to watch you guys grasp at straws, or in this case...a straw. I bet most players in the NFL are in the same boat, unless you think the measuring stick should be perfect score at all facets of life...actually you probably do.



    Keep that head firmly buried in the sand, Champ. 



    So, you do think that 1 poor score outweighs 7 great scores? You think that after the guy played for what you guys consider to be the best coach in the league without a problem and was awarded an extension that BB should have ignored what he saw for 2 years and went with 1 poor score in a psycological exam, and not locked up an integral part of brady's historic MVP season?

     I am sure you do good buddy, I am so sure you do.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Another point about dead money is that the Patriots are getting a 2.85 million dollar credit to their cap this year because of some weird thing with Lloyd's contract and the Fanene settlement which were both counted as dead money in 2013. 



    Sounds like BB protected himself, and made good decisions...again. If only he had a crystal ball and had read that report which clearly stated Hernandez would shoot a guy in the head.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     


    Does that outweigh all the other measurables?



    When giving him a big contract that could hamstring the team if he gets in trouble off the field of course it does! True, you keep saying that you don't sign players to big contracts because you don't know what will happen and yet here's a player who by all reports has/had off the field social issues (1 out of 10 from your own report) in a league desperately trying to clean up it's image and you think it was worth giving him a big money deal? Then why let Lloyd go. You thought it was a good deal. The only issue was social interaction in the locker room yet they decided to let him go after a single season, so obviously the Pats think it's a pretty big deal too.

    Question True would you draft Colt Lyerla in the 4th? By all accounts he's as good a pass catching receiver as Hern was. He'll be lucky to get drafted this year because of off field issues, most of which are more minor than what Hern had coming out.



    Doing cocaine is more minor then what Hern did? What did Hern do exactly?

    A poor score on social interaction(even though it stated he would likely get along great with teammates) outweighs him being a "remarkably qualified candidate" does it eng? how about great mental ability, self efficiency, ability to recover from mistakes, receptivity to coaching? No big deal? 

    Ok, how about he played for the greatest coach in the league for 2 years without a peep or problem, and that coach gave him a 40 million dollar extension? No good? 

    Uh. Ok.



    Gang affliations including reports of incidents with violence and inviting his gang affliates to Florida practices to the point where Urban Meyer banned his friends from the facilities and intentional placed Hern in rooms with Tebow and Pouncey in hopes that they'd be a good influence. Yes I would say that's worse then coke

    If you combine the gang affliations with poor social scoring and a pention for violence which including a bar brawl, questioned for a shooting, street fights among other prior incidents in Florida before being drafting would send up a massive red flag for me.

    2 years without a peep means he deserves that contract with all that history? True you can never comment about giving big contracts to FAs again if you think after 2yrs a player deserves that kind of money but a proven player in the league doesn't

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Another point about dead money is that the Patriots are getting a 2.85 million dollar credit to their cap this year because of some weird thing with Lloyd's contract and the Fanene settlement which were both counted as dead money in 2013. 



    Sounds like BB protected himself, and made good decisions...again. If only he had a crystal ball and had read that report which clearly stated Hernandez would shoot a guy in the head.



    A good decision would be not to sign them in the first place. Paying money for no reason, even if it's only a $1 is not a good decision

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Another point about dead money is that the Patriots are getting a 2.85 million dollar credit to their cap this year because of some weird thing with Lloyd's contract and the Fanene settlement which were both counted as dead money in 2013. 



    Sounds like BB protected himself, and made good decisions...again. If only he had a crystal ball and had read that report which clearly stated Hernandez would shoot a guy in the head.



    A good decision would be not to sign them in the first place. Paying money for no reason, even if it's only a $1 is not a good decision



    Oh, so you were against the Hernadez signing in the 4rth round all together. How did you feel about him after 2010, 2011, and 2012. Did you know that other then the signing bonus, the extension didn't kick in until after his rookie contract ended in 2016? 

    You cannot be serious. Never take a flier on a 4rth round TE? This kid carried us in the 2011 playoffs including leading us in the SB, and scoring a td. Also lead us in receptions in the afc championship game, also lead us in rushing yards, and had 110 total yards and a td in the divisional game. 

    Your hindsight is next level. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Patriots Dead Money

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:



    That DM is a result of last years cuts after June 1 that is counted against this years cap.

     

    They haven't even began to cut this years players.

    That # will increase significantly. Probably double.

    No, they're not in good shape at all.

    The Seahawks have less than 900k as of now and they won the SB.

     



    If they cut Wilfork, Kelly, Soap, Wilson, Connolly and Gregory outright the DM wouldn't double.  They aren't going to do that so you should chill.

     

    The Seahawks have no dead money because all of their best players are on rookie contracts so they didn't have to cut any of their dead weight.  Sidney Rice and Zach Miller had a combined cap hit this past season of almost 21 million.  Those are bad contracts.  Most teams would have cut them and incurred a significant amount of dead money.  The Seahawks have the luxury of being able to hang on to overpriced JAGs.




    Well I could see most of those guys and more cut and the 50-60 guys they bring into camp and sign in FA.

    And any guy with guarantee money that they cut and re-sign and cut and re-sign and cut and re-sign, as usual.

    Easily another 8M.

    And yes, the Seahawks have the luxury of not having to pay their QB for another two years, but by that time, those contracts might be able to be cut or restructured and a significant jump in cap, will help.  And, I wouldn't call ALL their best players rookies.

    But if they were, that's not a bad problem to have.  At least they don't have to replace the same guys over and over and over, because they suck, and account for a TON of DM.... and cap reduction. Like the Pats..

     
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