Patriots Defense is real close

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Patriots Defense is real close

    As soon of you know, I'm not a complete homer when it comes to my opinions on the Pats and have been critical of them in several areas. That being said, I honestly believe that this defense is close to being very good.

    Coming into this season, I was extremely skeptical of the pass rush. If most of you don't remember, we all thought Chandler Jones was too raw and would be a project. He exceeded my expectations in the first half season and then fell in line with what I thought we would get from him in the second half. Maybe you can attrivute it to a lingery ankle injury, I don't know, but I fully expect him to be better next season. Mayock thought that Jones would be the best defensive player from the draft in three seasons. It would be amazing if he can make the JPP type jump (4.5 sacks to 16 sacks), but I'll keep my expectations down. I think Jones can be a 10 sack guy next season and get more consistent pressure than he did this season.

    I really hope this team can get a veteran edge rusher, even if he's just an obvious passing down rusher. I think Cunningham will get cut and I'm not ready to believe Justin Francis can be that guy. I wouldn't be opposed to spending the first round pick on the DE either, but veteran would be the best option IMO

    I think the LBs are fine. I don't know what the status of Fletcher will be, but it wouldn't hurt to get a guy who is slightly better in coverage. But overall, it's a solid group. Giants LBs weren't that fast. Same with the Ravens.

    Secondary is the biggest ?. Talib signing would be a big step forward. I honestly do not mind Kyle Arrington in the slot, but they need to find a quality backup in case of an injury. But a Dennard and Talib combo is not bad at all when healthy. This is assuming they don't start to suck with more coaching from these db coaches. A veteran safety would be nice too.

     

    Really, other than another edge rusher and a starting safety, the only other areas that really concern me is depth. I honestly believe this team has most of the pieces it needs. It's all about these young players (Spikes, McCourty, Dennard, Hightower, and most importantly, Jones) taking the next step in their development.

    IMO, Nink, Arrington, Gregory, Love, Deaderick are the starters on this team that are strictly system players.

    Spikes, Hightower, Dennard, Jones, and McCourty all have play maker potential and have all been drafted 2010 or later.

    Mayo, I'm not sure about. He's solid is what I'll give him. Wilfork is a beast.

    Going into last season with a raw rookie as your supposed best pass rusher was a huge mistake. This is mostly a young defense and if they can resign talib, I think another year together will help with the continuity which I think is vital for a defense to improve as a unit.

     

    I think this is an ascending unit. This isn't the Steelers who are getting older or the Ravens who will be broken up (Lewis retiring, Reed FA, Kruger FA, Williams FA, Ellerbe FA). This team doesn't need too many new players, its just needs the young players to develop.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    As soon of you know, I'm not a complete homer when it comes to my opinions on the Pats and have been critical of them in several areas. That being said, I honestly believe that this defense is close to being very good.

    Coming into this season, I was extremely skeptical of the pass rush. If most of you don't remember, we all thought Chandler Jones was too raw and would be a project. He exceeded my expectations in the first half season and then fell in line with what I thought we would get from him in the second half. Maybe you can attrivute it to a lingery ankle injury, I don't know, but I fully expect him to be better next season. Mayock thought that Jones would be the best defensive player from the draft in three seasons. It would be amazing if he can make the JPP type jump (4.5 sacks to 16 sacks), but I'll keep my expectations down. I think Jones can be a 10 sack guy next season and get more consistent pressure than he did this season.

    I really hope this team can get a veteran edge rusher, even if he's just an obvious passing down rusher. I think Cunningham will get cut and I'm not ready to believe Justin Francis can be that guy. I wouldn't be opposed to spending the first round pick on the DE either, but veteran would be the best option IMO

    I think the LBs are fine. I don't know what the status of Fletcher will be, but it wouldn't hurt to get a guy who is slightly better in coverage. But overall, it's a solid group. Giants LBs weren't that fast. Same with the Ravens.

    Secondary is the biggest ?. Talib signing would be a big step forward. I honestly do not mind Kyle Arrington in the slot, but they need to find a quality backup in case of an injury. But a Dennard and Talib combo is not bad at all when healthy. This is assuming they don't start to suck with more coaching from these db coaches. A veteran safety would be nice too.

     

    Really, other than another edge rusher and a starting safety, the only other areas that really concern me is depth. I honestly believe this team has most of the pieces it needs. It's all about these young players (Spikes, McCourty, Dennard, Hightower, and most importantly, Jones) taking the next step in their development.

    IMO, Nink, Arrington, Gregory, Love, Deaderick are the starters on this team that are strictly system players.

    Spikes, Hightower, Dennard, Jones, and McCourty all have play maker potential and have all been drafted 2010 or later.

    Mayo, I'm not sure about. He's solid is what I'll give him. Wilfork is a beast.

    Going into last season with a raw rookie as your supposed best pass rusher was a huge mistake. This is mostly a young defense and if they can resign talib, I think another year together will help with the continuity which I think is vital for a defense to improve as a unit.

     

    I think this is an ascending unit. This isn't the Steelers who are getting older or the Ravens who will be broken up (Lewis retiring, Reed FA, Kruger FA, Williams FA, Ellerbe FA). This team doesn't need too many new players, its just needs the young players to develop.

     




    I pretty much agree with everything here, but finding that defensive lineman is not going to be easy. They added one today that looks on paper like a higher round draft pick type. I don't agree with what you said about Fletcher coming back and helping out in coverage - unless he is vastly improved from two seasons ago, I don't think he will be an upgrade. Kudos for telling it like it is with Cunningham and Mayo. And for not falling in love with Love and the rest of our bigger D lineman. Wilfork is a beast.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    Sign Talib, and give Osi a good, hard look. He could put them over the top. Let Welker walk and sign Fitzgerald.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    Well I said Fletcher was a question mark. He hasn't played in a while. But you don't need quick LBs, our LBs just need to do a better job of reacting on passing plays.

    I actually really like Osi, not as much for what he can bring as a pass rusher, but the attitude. This guy has played a part in two underdogs winning the Super Bowl. I think he can help bring the necessary attitude that this defense needs. That being said, he's leaving NY for a reason, and I'm not sure this team can afford him.

    And no to Fitz. Unless Arizona wants to give him away for practically nothing AND he's willing to take like a 50% pay cut then I don't think it's worth the investment. Pats dont need another receiver that draws double teams, that would just be a luxury. All they need is a guy who can win one on one's.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from auchhhhhhhhhhh. Show auchhhhhhhhhhh's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    Top needs : Safety, Defensive Tackle, Cornerback, Defensive End... in that order.

    We are close to have a decent front 7. But we need a 1st rounder DT, a big and strong rookie to play next to vince... if deaderick and love con good next to VW imagine somebody with 1st round credentials...

    Bring a safety and a cornerback via FA

    Draft a Defensive end in the second round...

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    I'm not so high on Talib anymore.  Sure he is the Patriots best CB but he hasn't played a whole season yet.  He isn't much help over on the bench hurt.  There has to be somebody else available this offseason who is just as good and can stay healthy. Or keep him and plan on him getting hurt during the season and still bring in a couple good CB's to replace Arrington and Cole and fill in for Talib when he misses games.

    Replacef the entire Safety core with exception of DMC and Wilson.

    I like Mayo, Spikes and Hightower.  However, they are too slow in the passing game.  It kills me to see Spikes try and cover or chase down a back, TE or WR after a catch or in coverage.  Hightower isn;t as bad.  Not sure what to do here because Spikes is a beast at the run game.

    Wilfork is great!  Jones needs some more size and experience.  Scott has shown he can step up and Ninkovich, well I like how he plays.  He might be one of those system over achievers but he is a solid one who does have some talent.  Still, the line needs someone who can be a threat to put pressure on the QB at anytime.

    Not sure how Demps will turn out but if he can feel the role of punt/kick returns then great!  Otherwise they need a threat back there. 

    The RB's... It's plain and simple! The Patriots need a featured back. This RB merry-go-round is bogus.  All it does is cause confusion... to the Pats coaching staff!  They can't decide who is the right back for the game plan.  Ridley looks like he could be something until he fumbles.  Plus now he took that knockout blow last Sunday and once you get one of those it's concusion city every time you take a hit.  Not good for Riddley.  Vereen.. Well he can be a third down back along with woody but it's probably best 2 of the Patriots 4 RB's leaves and a featured back is brought in.

    O line.. I like it maybe a tweek here or there but over all it's good.

    TE's is stacked with Gronk, Hernandez and Ballard.  Keep hooman too.

    WR's - Yes, you gotta keep Welker.  Go out and get a deep threat, Lloyd is your #3.  Edleman is taking up space, he has to go.  Still need to find one more taller WR.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    With Talib and Dennard the D can play at a major leage level. It is a very precarious situation with zero room for alternates or it turns right back into the mickey mouse outfit it has been.

    It is absolutely unfathomable how so many high draft picks on defense over the last half decade could turn out to be so inept. As I say, a blindfolded monkey throwing at a dartboard with names stuck on it could have done better with these picks over that time.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    Sign Talib, and give Osi a good, hard look. He could put them over the top. Let Welker walk and sign Fitzgerald.




    Um, so who is going to be the short to mid field receiver?  BTW, Fitzgerald isn't going anywhere!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    they need to get rid of arrington and cole, they are both useless. i guess arrington is decent in the slot..

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    I'm not so high on Talib anymore.



    Well without him, or somebody like him, this D is a joke.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

    they need to get rid of arrington and cole, they are both useless. i guess arrington is decent in the slot..




    Cole should be taking care of Kraft's lawn, not be playing in the NFL.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

     

    they need to get rid of arrington and cole, they are both useless. i guess arrington is decent in the slot..

     




    Cole should be taking care of Kraft's lawn, not be playing in the NFL.

     




    yea i dont know what BB sees in him....i guess he is a pretty good special teams player. but he is nowhere near an NFL caliber cb.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to auchhhhhhhhhhh's comment:

     

    Top needs : Safety, Defensive Tackle, Cornerback, Defensive End... in that order.

    We are close to have a decent front 7. But we need a 1st rounder DT, a big and strong rookie to play next to vince... if deaderick and love con good next to VW imagine somebody with 1st round credentials...

    Bring a safety and a cornerback via FA

    Draft a Defensive end in the second round...

     

     



    They just picked up a DT in Armond Armstead. He's going to be a rookie and has borderline 1st/2nd round talent. They pretty much already drafted the DT you're talking about in January

    I also think DE is the biggest need. Nink is a system guy and I'm not going to rely on him repeating his numbers this season. They need another true DE in case Jones gets hurt. And if Jones doesn't get hurt, then a line with Jones, Wilfork and whoever that other DE is will be very good.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

    they need to get rid of arrington and cole, they are both useless. i guess arrington is decent in the slot..



    Arrington is okay in the slot. They just need a backup outside corner because putting McCourty on the outside ruins both the safety and cb position. Putting Arrington on the outside is the same thing as only putting 10 men on the field.

    But finding a decent backup for Talib and Dennard isn't a huge problem. They don't need to find a pro bowl playmaker, just someone decent. Decent in comparison to Arrington and McCourty will feel like we found the next Deion Sanders.

    If Talib is let go, then this backfield is in huge trouble. Grimes, Asomugha and Rodgers-Cromartie are the other top FA CBs. Grimes is actually pretty good, but he will be a year off an injury. Asomugha and Rodgers-Cromartie were Arrington-esque this season.

    And I also would cringe at BB drafting another CB in the first two rounds.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb24. Show isurfvb24's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    they need to stop drafting corners with a history of injuries like ras-i-dowling had with the university of virginia witht he first pick in the second round. dude cant stay on the field at all. they are good at safety with mccourty back there. let chung walk, he is garbage. the biggest need in my mind is a pass rushing defensive end to pair with jones, and a big tall wideout similar to moss/bolden and fitz. im sick of our midget wideouts and corners. def need to get bigger in those positions.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to auchhhhhhhhhhh's comment:

     

    Top needs : Safety, Defensive Tackle, Cornerback, Defensive End... in that order.

    We are close to have a decent front 7. But we need a 1st rounder DT, a big and strong rookie to play next to vince... if deaderick and love con good next to VW imagine somebody with 1st round credentials...

    Bring a safety and a cornerback via FA

    Draft a Defensive end in the second round...

     

     



    They just picked up a DT in Armond Armstead. He's going to be a rookie and has borderline 1st/2nd round talent. They pretty much already drafted the DT you're talking about in January

    I also think DE is the biggest need. Nink is a system guy and I'm not going to rely on him repeating his numbers this season. They need another true DE in case Jones gets hurt. And if Jones doesn't get hurt, then a line with Jones, Wilfork and whoever that other DE is will be very good.

     



    This DT went undrafted and unsigned all year. Yes, he has a high ceiling but he's never lived up to it more then flashes in college and the CFL isn't exactly a breeding ground for top end talent. And no, he didn't show more than flashes before the heart attack and he did have an injury history before the heart attack too. I wouldn't call him a borderline 1st round pick by any means nor would I consider him a solution. More like a high talent camp body (ala Dennard or Demps) and hope he makes the team but not someone I would change my plans over.

    As for Nink, yes he is a system guy but look at his numbers. They've steadily increased and he's been pretty good over the last 3 years when he's started. He's shown steady improvement similar to most good players as they become use to systems. I think what he showed this year might be his ceiling but I don't think next years numbers would be drastically down from this years. Don't underestimate Nink. Sure he' not a flashy player but he's one of the better overall consistent DE in the league (notice the consistent and overall not that I'm saying he's one of the best just one of the most solid and consistent DE's), when you consider all he gives. But, what he does doesn't show up on stat sheets often and yes he is a system guy so he's often underrated. Honestly though how many non-system guys come it and can't perform. I'd rather have a given that ill give you better then average numbers over spending cash to try to replace him. Target replacing Love or Deadrick first who give far less then Nink

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to DontQuestionBB's comment:

    The Pats need another Shut down corner, they should keep Talib if the price is right.  Safety would be another concern, as I'm not sold on Gergory.  I can remember when Landry was available and the Pats didn't pull the trigger, bad decision if you ask me.  



    That wasn't the bad decision. Landry was okay, but he wasn't that good. The bad decision was letting Goldson leave the facility without a contract.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    While I think the defense (finally) improved this year, I am not sure they are that close. What they really need is a leader. Some one who sets the tone for the whole team and can control the defense out on the field. While I think, Hightower, Spikes & Mayo are a good linebacking crew, none of them are capable of doing that (maybe Hightower will be, but I do not see it).

    The obvious place to find that guy is at safety, maybe Goldson or some one like that. I think they need another DT and DE. They also need a cornerback. 

    Since they seem to need four guys (out of 11 starters), I am going to say though improved, I am not sure the word "close" quite applies yet.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I'm not so high on Talib anymore.

     



    Well without him, or somebody like him, this D is a joke.

     




    Dude, really.  You need to rethink your football.  Talib is better then who the Patriots have but he isn't great.  He got burned by the bills, he didn't look great against the Texans in the playoffs, and he was hurt a bunch of games.  When he was needed most he was on the bench hurt Sunday.  Keep him but don't expect him to be out there every Sunday!  Now do the Patriots really want to throw a bunch of money at that?  Easy answer NO!  There are others out there they can get that will be out there every Sunday, or at least more then Talib.  But get rid of Welker to pay for Talib, you can't be serious?  This would be a horrible move!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    In response to auchhhhhhhhhhh's comment:

     

    Top needs : Safety, Defensive Tackle, Cornerback, Defensive End... in that order.

    We are close to have a decent front 7. But we need a 1st rounder DT, a big and strong rookie to play next to vince... if deaderick and love con good next to VW imagine somebody with 1st round credentials...

    Bring a safety and a cornerback via FA

    Draft a Defensive end in the second round...

     

     



    They just picked up a DT in Armond Armstead. He's going to be a rookie and has borderline 1st/2nd round talent. They pretty much already drafted the DT you're talking about in January

    I also think DE is the biggest need. Nink is a system guy and I'm not going to rely on him repeating his numbers this season. They need another true DE in case Jones gets hurt. And if Jones doesn't get hurt, then a line with Jones, Wilfork and whoever that other DE is will be very good.

     

     



    This DT went undrafted and unsigned all year. Yes, he has a high ceiling but he's never lived up to it more then flashes in college and the CFL isn't exactly a breeding ground for top end talent. And no, he didn't show more than flashes before the heart attack and he did have an injury history before the heart attack too. I wouldn't call him a borderline 1st round pick by any means nor would I consider him a solution. More like a high talent camp body (ala Dennard or Demps) and hope he makes the team but not someone I would change my plans over.

     

    As for Nink, yes he is a system guy but look at his numbers. They've steadily increased and he's been pretty good over the last 3 years when he's started. He's shown steady improvement similar to most good players as they become use to systems. I think what he showed this year might be his ceiling but I don't think next years numbers would be drastically down from this years. Don't underestimate Nink. Sure he' not a flashy player but he's one of the better overall consistent DE in the league (notice the consistent and overall not that I'm saying he's one of the best just one of the most solid and consistent DE's), when you consider all he gives. But, what he does doesn't show up on stat sheets often and yes he is a system guy so he's often underrated. Honestly though how many non-system guys come it and can't perform. I'd rather have a given that ill give you better then average numbers over spending cash to try to replace him. Target replacing Love or Deadrick first who give far less then Nink



    He largely went unsigned because of health issues. That being said, I likened him to a draft pick because, quite frankly, you don't know what you're going to get out of him. Ron Brace was a high draft pick that amounted to nothing.

    And yes, the CFL doesn't breed top end talent, but the likes of Browner and Wake came from the CFL. Other players like Steve Young and Kurt Warner have come from other leagues. I've read anywhere between 1st to third round pick...all I know is that scouts liked him. This is what I think he has going for him

    1. He's a high upside guy who is not getting that first/second round rookie contract. If he's got a motor issue, he won't have the type of leeway those high picks have. He's either going to have to play hard or risk a real shot of not even making the 53 man roster.

    2. He's a guy that should have been drafted, had it not been for his health, who ended up not getting drafted. Even bigger chip on his shoulder.

    Not saying he's going to come in and become the next Richard Seymour. But when you consider where the Pats lie in the draft order, I think what you should expect to get from him was what you should expect from a player drafted in those slots. They're likely not going to be able draft an instant probowler at DT. This guy provides a nice alternative.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    With Talib and Dennard the D can play at a major leage level. It is a very precarious situation with zero room for alternates or it turns right back into the mickey mouse outfit it has been.

    It is absolutely unfathomable how so many high draft picks on defense over the last half decade could turn out to be so inept. As I say, a blindfolded monkey throwing at a dartboard with names stuck on it could have done better with these picks over that time.



    yeah i think thats been a big part of the problem. this years draft wasnt as bad but some of the previous drafts have been very bad for defensive players. the 2nd round probably the worst of all, ras dowling terrible pick, cunningham, butler, chung, and many many more.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    This defense just got a lot closer with the signing of Armstead.  Great pick up.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Patriots Defense is real close

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    This defense just got a lot closer with the signing of Armstead.  Great pick up.



    Really? They had him in pre-draft for a workout and did not even sign him as an undrafted rookie free agent. Now after one year in Canada he is ready to be a starter or a contributor?

     
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