Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4679850/guyton-gets-up-front-reward-from-pats

    Nice move by the team. Although the signing bonus is peanuts in the world of NFL money, I still think it's a nice gesture considering they have all the leverage and the right to not give out any money considering the labor situation.

    Many of you "Patriots fans" were outraged at the end of the season thinking the Patriots wouldn't keep their valuable assets and that Kraft is too busy with Patriot Place to write checks for the team, etc. I think this is another piece of the great off-season we've had thus far. They ponied up the cash for Wilfork, Bodden, Burgess, and offered a very fair deal to Mankins (that's assuming the deal was with reasonable guaranteed money). They'll get Moss and Brady done too.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    How do you know the offer to Mankins was fair?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    I don't know but looking at the pattern this off-season:

    Wilfork was offered a 5-year $40 million contract with $25 million guaranteed. He signed.

    Bodden was offered a 4-year $22 million contract with $10 million guaranteed. He signed.

    5 years, $35 million is what Mankins was offered. We don't know the guaranteed dollars yet but I doubt he was offered something so offensive that he demanded a trade and publicly bashed the organization. No, the Patriots don't pay every player what they truly deserve; the economics don't allow it. Still, like I said I'll give them benefit of the doubt.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    It seems they set guide lines and depending on the amount of cash it's going to cost them they take care of certain players in quick fashion. This wasn't a real hard pill for the Pats to swallow.

    As far as the Mankins situation. If Mankins didn't feel it was a "Fair"deal that's his business.I don't care if he plays this year or not and I don't think it will affect our record at the end of the year.When people are younger they tend to Over value themselves and set expectations of other people that may not be reasonable or  ever be met. That's the way I see Mankins right now. I always said it is the right of a team to offer deals and sign whom ever they like. If I don't like what they are doing I'll exercise my right to tune out. The Bruins lost me as a fan about 15 years ago because they were Blatant Misers that couldn't care less about winning a stanley cup.
    Kraft isn't there yet but he is a P!mp none the less.

    So as far as the Mankins deal...Define Fair...It's a subjective argument.
    Kraft has done the right thing by the fans thus far and I'll cut him slack until he fails for a number of years straight. Won't happen as long as Belichick is here.

    Oh Yeah .. To the point of your post AP.. I agree. They've spent this offseason and they probably aren't done yet.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    It seems they set guide lines and depending on the amount of cash it's going to cost them they take care of certain players in quick fashion. This wasn't a real hard pill for the Pats to swallow. As far as the Mankins situation. If Mankins didn't feel it was a "Fair" deal that's his business.I don't care if he plays this year or not and I don't think it will affect our record at the end of the year.When people are younger they tend to Over value themselves and set expectations of other people that may not be reasonable or  ever be met. That's the way I see Mankins right now. I always said it is the right of a team to offer deals and sign whom ever they like. If I don't like what they are doing I'll exercise my right to tune out. The Bruins lost me as a fan about 15 years ago because they were Blatant Misers that couldn't care less about winning a stanley cup. Kraft isn't there yet but he is a P!mp none the less. So as far as the Mankins deal...Define Fair...It's a subjective argument. Kraft has done the right thing by the fans thus far and I'll cut him slack until he fails for a number of years straight. Won't happen as long as Belichick is here.
    Posted by ewhite1065


    I completely agree with the notion mankins in the end will not affect our win total. Without taking away from how good he has been EVERY game for the past 5 years he is still one of the big uglys in the middle of the line. I have a feeling BB was prepared for Logans hold out thus the drafting of o-linemen the past 2 years. 

    In regard to 35 mil being fair, I think judging on recent contracts of the Pats and other teams we would have to assume the guaranteed part of the contract fits in line with other deals of a similar nature. As in why waste time offering 35 mil with only 5-6 of it a guarantee? It appears as though logan wants to be one of the highest paid linemen in the league which means he will no longer be a Patriot.

    What scares me more then losing a quality guard is losing another veteran locker room presence.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right? : I completely agree with the notion mankins in the end will not affect our win total. Without taking away from how good he has been EVERY game for the past 5 years he is still one of the big uglys in the middle of the line. I have a feeling BB was prepared for Logans hold out thus the drafting of o-linemen the past 2 years.  In regard to 35 mil being fair, I think judging on recent contracts of the Pats and other teams we would have to assume the guaranteed part of the contract fits in line with other deals of a similar nature. As in why waste time offering 35 mil with only 5-6 of it a guarantee? It appears as though logan wants to be one of the highest paid linemen in the league which means he will no longer be a Patriot. What scares me more then losing a quality guard is losing another veteran locker room presence.
    Posted by TrueChamp


    I think you're right about the Pats being sneaky with the numbers..I can't help but think back to the contract they gave Matt Light and although I think Matt Light is a quality Player I also think they could have done close to as well for a lot less as Matt light gets burned a lot and has for at least the last few years. I think that's the way the Pats might be approaching the Mankins scenerio. I also found a quote in the Guyton story very interesting. When his agent said, " The Pats have always been true to their word with us". The reason I say that is because people like to rip the Pats when a player says, "They Lied".. but nobody will ever mention the quote from Guyton's agent. People get attached to players more than they do management so the player always seems to get the benefit of the doubt. The problem with that is Players are represented by agents who sometimes lie to the players and always lies to the fans and media.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right? : I think you're right about the Pats being sneaky with the numbers..I can't help but think back to the contract they gave Matt Light and although I think Matt Light is a quality Player I also think they could have done close to as well for a lot less as Matt light gets burned a lot and has for at least the last few years. I think that's the way the Pats might be approaching the Mankins scenerio. I also found a quote in the Guyton story very interesting. When his agent said, " The Pats have always been true to their word with us". The reason I say that is because people like to rip the Pats when a player says, "They Lied".. but nobody will ever mention the quote from Guyton's agent. People get attached to players more than they do management so the player always seems to get the benefit of the doubt. The problem with that is Players are represented by agents who sometimes lie to the players and always lies to the fans and media.
    Posted by ewhite1065


    Just like the media was all over the Patriots "ditching a school with poor little disappointed kids" when in reality, it was miscommunication by another party. Still, the Patriots stepped up and sent Belichick to the school even though he still could have just sent some 3rd stringer. Nobody mentioned that part...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    How do you know the offer to Mankins was fair?
    Posted by underdoggggg



    underoos...7 million per for a guard is top five market...if your talking about upfront money...well then we dont know what that is but top five in the league seems fair to me... and im not even a dolts fan...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right? : Because you think it wasn't. Easy.
    Posted by russgriswold

    Good one!! Can't wait to see what's next. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    AP and E - If, in fact, it was a 5 yr 35 mill deal, I understand it's easy to assume that the signing bonus was acceptable.  Maybe it was. 

    But maybe it was also a heavily backloaded contract that was going to pay Mankins 8-10 million in the last year.

    JC - Football contracts have everything to do with structure since they are "non-guaranteed".  If the signing bonus is low and the contract is heavily backloaded, then it may not be worth the paper it is written on.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from chaucer. Show chaucer's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    Every team has a its own approach about player compensation.  Those that do not operate in chaos and their record reflects the poor management.  The Patriots have been very consistent and transparent in their approach.  They are not going to break the bank for any one player unless he is special, like Brady or Wilfork.  They seem to have a scale gauged according to position and the flexibility they have in replacing said player.  However fair the front money to Mankins may have been, they certainly did not offer in the hope or expectation that he would demand a trade.  Whether Mankins overvalues himself or the Patriots undervalue him will be determined by whatever market evolves for him by other teams seeking a trade.  We know that no other team wanted to sign him when he was restricted.  The Patriots have set limits for players like Mankins; he knows it; we know it; his agent knows it.  I doubt that there are many teams that will make an offer significantly higher than the Patriots have made already
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    AP and E - If, in fact, it was a 5 yr 35 mill deal, I understand it's easy to assume that the signing bonus was acceptable.  Maybe it was.  But maybe it was also a heavily backloaded contract that was going to pay Mankins 8-10 million in the last year. JC - Football contracts have everything to do with structure since they are "non-guaranteed".  If the signing bonus is low and the contract is heavily backloaded, then it may not be worth the paper it is written on.
    Posted by underdoggggg


    It might of been back end loaded. I don't know but I'm not going to blame the Pats for trying to protect themselves if that was the case. They really overpaid Matt Light for what they got back out of him in production. Point being, What's fair to Mankins and his agent might not seem fair to the Pats also. Much like everybody at any type of job, he's not as important as he thinks he is or what anybody tells him he is. For some reason Mankins has been elevated to superstar status much like Light was 5 years ago. You know as well as anyone that our O-line was sub-par last year. Not his fault but he was part of it.The definition of fair in my book is whatever both sides end up agreeing on.If it's not here then he will get a fair contract somewhere else.

    It's just like selling a house. If someone asks you what it's worth the true answer is," Whatever someone will pay for it".
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    AP and E - If, in fact, it was a 5 yr 35 mill deal, I understand it's easy to assume that the signing bonus was acceptable.  Maybe it was.  But maybe it was also a heavily backloaded contract that was going to pay Mankins 8-10 million in the last year. JC - Football contracts have everything to do with structure since they are "non-guaranteed".  If the signing bonus is low and the contract is heavily backloaded, then it may not be worth the paper it is written on.
    Posted by underdoggggg


    You've done a great job at speculating on speculation. The deal was said to be for 35 mil. That can probably be taken at face value considering the history of contracts we have offered players. There is no reason to think otherwise when we just signed pretty much all of our own FA's to more then reasonable contracts(with appropriate signing bonus's etc.)
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdoggggg. Show underdoggggg's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right? : You've done a great job at speculating on speculation. The deal was said to be for 35 mil. That can probably be taken at face value considering the history of contracts we have offered players. There is no reason to think otherwise when we just signed pretty much all of our own FA's to more then reasonable contracts(with appropriate signing bonus's etc.)
    Posted by TrueChamp

    TC - ok, so if I accept that the contract is 5 yrs 35 million will that satisfy you?  Can you tell any of us how that deal is structured?  The point is, none of you know this, and that is what's most important.  Further none of you know what was discussed between the team and Mankins that caused him to call the team out. 

    Isn't it entirely possible that the pats may floating him a bad deal?  Let's not suggest that the pats are above doing such a thing.  I'd never say the colts wouldn't do such a thing. 

    In the business of football, both owners and players are greedy.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from datdude401. Show datdude401's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    .  Isn't it entirely possible that the pats may floating him a bad deal?  Let's not suggest that the pats are above doing such a thing.  I'd never say the colts wouldn't do such a thing.  In the business of football, both owners and players are greedy.
    Posted by underdoggggg


    Isnt it possible they arent floating around a bad number? The fact is he didnt want what was offered and currently are at an impasse. You could never put it above either party when business/Money is on the line. But with all the spending the Patriots have done this offseason, I think public opinions may side with he Pats on this one.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right? : TC - ok, so if I accept that the contract is 5 yrs 35 million will that satisfy you?  Can you tell any of us how that deal is structured?  The point is, none of you know this, and that is what's most important.  Further none of you know what was discussed between the team and Mankins that caused him to call the team out.  Isn't it entirely possible that the pats may floating him a bad deal?  Let's not suggest that the pats are above doing such a thing.  I'd never say the colts wouldn't do such a thing.  In the business of football, both owners and players are greedy.
    Posted by underdoggggg


    My point is given our track record with either re-signing players or basically letting them walk, then I think its fair to assume that the offer coincides with what we have always done. BB and Pats would have no reason to offer him a deal that is not appropriately structured. They would just let them walk like we have done before( Willie mac) In cases where players thought they deserved more then the team has offered(Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy) The organization has done the right thing from a business perspective and said, "Bye" . Imo there is little cause to think they would offer a deceptive contract. They would have no problem in offering what value they feel he is worth and if it is not accepted then that player is gone. Point being why suggest otherwise?

    On the greed issue. Robert Kraft has been a Patriot fan his whole life. The man wants to win and is one of the most respected members of the NFL community. To try and insinuate that greed is his motivating factor and not "Building a team" is as ridiculous as saying Bill Polian is not a whiner.

    I hope that last shot didn't discredit my statements in your eyes but after your using greed to describe Robert Kraft's motivation then I felt it was appropriate.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from raptor64d. Show raptor64d's posts

    Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?

    In Response to Re: Patriots Don't Treat Players Right?:
    Underdogg I know the deal was fair cause I talked to Mankins last night and he told me also his agent called a few seconds ago and said it was fair and that you should shut you f*cking mouth... he said it not me LOL
    Posted by MVPkilla4life


    Yea I remember when Mankins was over the house for some BBQ and you called him. I will back you up on the fair deal also! And I also agree what dippo can do with his mouth!   :)
     
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