Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

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    [QUOTE]It was a "no brainer"?  At 16 million dollars when everyone knows you are trying to trade him? Who else has tagged a back up QB at that price? And now Polian isn't good at what he does?  The guy has put a good product every team he's ever managed. He may be overrated, but he's certainly one of the better GMs of the past 15-20 years. The key word you used above is "trying" to build a championship team.  Go look at Dan Snyder, Al Davis and Jerry Jones since the cap era started, Einstein.   Go look at what they have "tried" to do. I'd say they've show little patience and understanding with how to do it. Gee, I am confused as to why Pioli had the Chiefs in the playoffs. I am confused why Atlanta is posied to make a run with Dimitrioff there. Maybe these idiots owners should have gotten an education on how to manage in the cap era and they'd have a ring.  By the time Jones cleared out his 1995 Cowboys title team, a couple of years later, trying to manage it under the established cap, he's struggled the same then as he does now. Every move matters. Look at how many GMs have tried to put their teams over the top (Carolina, Philly, TB, SD, Dallas, etc) and tried to maintain it.  And then there are the Lions, Raiders, Bengals, etc, of the world.  Every single aspect on the list in terms of building a team is important.  Period. In 2001 Al Davis tried to slam a slew of veterans into a small window to make a run.  Guess what? It didn't work.  What approach does that remind you of? I'll give you a hint: The team is down 84 and into New Jersey. You miss one aspect and it will probably cost you. You are clueless and clearly are playing the troll role here for attention. You claim you were a fan since the 1960s, yet pine for the 1960s front office over what you are witnessing now as a fan?  Explain how that makes sense, goober.  So, you are some 60 or 70 year old fan looking for attention on a messageboard then? You're a joke. Some of us have a handle on what this approach is, the consistency it brings and the success it's garnered for the past 10 years. You just aren't patient enough waiting for the rebuilding to finish.  Some NFL teams have never even been in a SB since the merger in 1970, nor have they even won a SB. The Arizona Cardinals and Saints just went from the laughingstock to appearing in Super Bowls. What did the Saints just say they were trying to mimick?  That's right, the New England Patriots. If Belichick had no salary cap, the Patriots would probably never lose a game.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    Do you ever get anything right? Seems not.

    He tagged Cassel because he had to or lose him for ziltch. So worst case was likely he would have had to take a low draft pick, but somebody was going to pay the guy based on the numbers he put up.

    Polian, like BB, has greatly benefitted by having a HOF QB. That is what has brought him the lion's share of his success - the same as Hoodie.

    So you want to point out some of the great fails among team builders to show how good Hoodie is at it? That's nonsensical. Okay, Hoodie isn't a pathetic team builder, he's just greatly overrated. Happy now?

    The Chiefs made the playoffs because they had the easiest scedule in memory. It doesn't even take a genius like Hoodie to figure that one out.


    Carolina, Philly, TB, SD, Dallas Lions, Raiders, Bengals all have lacked the top QB that guys like BB and Polian have had. And don't even start with Romo or Palmer. As I pointed out, look at BB w/o the HOF QB and you see what is what.

    Speaking of which, you mention the old front office and are clueless to understand that is not what was critically lacking. It was the HOF QB. The success tracks Brady, not BB. Though Kraft is certainly a better owner than BS was.

    What you don't seem to "get" is that success tracks great players, especially great QBs, not coaches.  Hoodie has not had the same success because he has not provided an influx of great players by his choices and the ones in place when he arrived have gone away. But that's bound to happen when you keep trading down and swinging and missing constantly in the 2nd or 3rd round especially whan you are targeting the wrong positions as well. How long have we needed an edge rusher, 3 years, and still the same old nonsense out of BB.







     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : This is a load of hooey. So I have to prove I'm a Pat's fan? Just becuse somebody doesn't drink the simpleton fan's Hoodie kool-aide doesn't make them a troll. Just because they don't overrate every scrub player on the team doesn't make them one either. If I told you I was a fan when they played in Fenway, or about the million potholes in the Shaeffer parking lot, or seeing John Huarte and Joe Bellino in the same backfield for the Pats, that wouldn't convince you since you're so brilliant. What if I took a pic of my beat up corduroy Pat Patriot hat with my hand giving you the finger, would that work? Polian isn't a very great GM. Otherwise he would have more success than he has had. It seems rather than others "mirroring" Hoodie, he is "mirroring" Polian, since he has been abvle to duplicate the feat of going one and out so well. People aren't "mirroring" Hoodie, they are doing what has always been done. They are trying to build a championship team. If they were mirroring Hoodie they would be incessantly trading away their draft picks while their HOF QB was getting older by the day. They would be signing FA LBs who just don't get it done. The Cassel thing was a no-brainer. Brady got hurt, they had the easiest schedule in memory, Cassel put up some numbers because of that, you tag him and trade him because somebody who needds a QB will be impressed by those numbers. That's not GENIUS. Only an IDIOT would have not done that. The bottom line, the fact is, in 7 seasons without the HOF QB Hoodie has made the playoffs once. With the HOF QB he has made the playoffs 9 out of 10 times.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Kentucky Babe: You have me confused. Are you now saying that BB is overrated both as a GM and a coach? That the only reason that he has won was because he has Tom Brady? Every coach, no matter how great, needs great players in order to shine. Vince Lombardi had Bart Starr, Don Shula had Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese and Dan Marino, Paul Brown had Otto Graham, Bill Walsh had Joe Montana, and Chuck Noll had Terry Bradshaw. Even Mike Holovak won with a solid veteran QB, named Vito Babe Parilli (R.I.P. coach...Holovak passed away two years ago):  http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/obituaries/articles/2008/01/28/mike_holovak_88_star_back_for_bc_became_second_winningest_coach_of_patriots/ 

         Great pass-rushers are hard to find. Everybody GM wants them. But, if they're not available, a great coach finds another way to win. BB has done that.
    Guys like Lawrence Taylor and even Andre Tippett don't come around very often. And...especially in today's game, they're very high draft choices. 

         Your argument that BB is overrated because the Pats haven't won a title since 2004 is silly. They were top contenders in 2006, 2007, and 2010. In 2006, BB led a WR-less team to the AFC title game. Due to a ton of dubious officiating, the Pats were beaten in the closing minutes by the Colts. Had the Pats won that game, they surely would have beaten the Rex Grossman led Chicago Bears in the SB. 

         In 2007, BB came within a whisker of pulling off the unthinkable...a perfect season. But, media concocted distractions on the eve of the SB, and lady luck, broke against the boys in blue...as they lost a heartbreaker to the Giants. 

         In 2008, there was the SB-losers' hangover...and the Brady injury. In 2009, an untimely injury to Wes Welker, and an aging, porous defense, did the Pats in. Last year, the Pats overachieved, and, save for a poor overall performance in the play-offs against a very good Jets team, had a great season. Who expected the Pats to go 14-2 last season? 

         In 2011...the Pats will once again seriously contend for a SB appearance.     
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

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    [QUOTE]Belichick is an economics major and was a guy who grasped what the cap meant in the early/mid 90s when it debuted in 1993.   Read what his staff said about him when he was with Cleveland.  Evem Modell admitted he blew it with Belichick and that BB was right all along. Of course Brady is great and a Hall of Famer, and having a QB locked down has helped, but also note Brady's skill set as a QB, something Belichick LIKED. Belichick. And Pioli and the scouts. They liked Rattay and Brady.  They chose Brady. Intelligence, winning close games, comebacks, battling for his job, passion, drive, accuracy, etc. Now, everyone is looking for a QB "like Brady", except for Al Davis and those idiots.  A big arm or the Mike Vick athletiscism is irrelevant or at least should be. You ask if I get anything right and I get this aspect more than right. You're just a troll.  A really strange troll. Also, he didn't have to tag Cassel. They could have extended him and then dealt him.  Ever consider that? They could have said, "hey Matt we want to give you a deal that looks competitive so it's attractive for us to deal you to a team for you to start". Instead, he rolled the dice and grabbed what was essentially a 1st rd pick or at least the high 2nd representing a great spot in the 2nd rd. Do you really expect us to believe you are a Pats fan?  Please stop. Your beloved 1960s Pats front office didn't work under a cap. Belichick has his hands tied, as do all GMs, and his high level of performance is essentially unmatched. Goodell even clipped him for the 1st rd pick in 2008 and Belichick still hit on his other 1st rd pick. Who goes 16-0, goes to a SB, and then would have had 2 1st rd picks?  And you wonder why fans are jealous beyond all recognition?
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

         Babe is a Pats fan, Your Majesty. He's just frustrated, as all of us are...over several tough playoff losses over the past 5 years...including two to New York teams, and one to the hated Colts. Pats fans are also tired of seeing the "bend but don't break" defense break at the most inopportune of times. 
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Do you ever get anything right? Seems not. He tagged Cassel because he had to or lose him for ziltch. So worst case was likely he would have had to take a low draft pick, but somebody was going to pay the guy based on the numbers he put up. Polian, like BB, has greatly benefitted by having a HOF QB. That is what has brought him the lion's share of his success - the same as Hoodie. So you want to point out some of the great fails among team builders to show how good Hoodie is at it? That's nonsensical. Okay, Hoodie isn't a pathetic team builder, he's just greatly overrated. Happy now? The Chiefs made the playoffs because they had the easiest scedule in memory. It doesn't even take a genius like Hoodie to figure that one out. Carolina, Philly, TB, SD, Dallas Lions, Raiders, Bengals all have lacked the top QB that guys like BB and Polian have had. And don't even start with Romo or Palmer. As I pointed out, look at BB w/o the HOF QB and you see what is what. Speaking of which, you mention the old front office and are clueless to understand that is not what was critically lacking. It was the HOF QB. The success tracks Brady, not BB. Though Kraft is certainly a better owner than BS was. What you don't seem to "get" is that success tracks great players, especially great QBs, not coaches.  Hoodie has not had the same success because he has not provided an influx of great players by his choices and the ones in place when he arrived have gone away. But that's bound to happen when you keep trading down and swinging and missing constantly in the 2nd or 3rd round especially whan you are targeting the wrong positions as well. How long have we needed an edge rusher, 3 years, and still the same old nonsense out of BB.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Three years of nonsense have produced 35 regular season victories, second to the Colts' 36.  While you root for the team with the best pass rush, more sensible fans will root for the team that has a chance of getting to the Super Bowl most years. 
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :      Babe is a Pats fan, Your Majesty. He's just frustrated, as all of us are...over several tough playoff losses over the past 5 years...including two to New York teams, and one to the hated Colts. Pats fans are also tired of seeing the "bend but don't break" defense break at the most inopportune of times. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    It is frustrating TP. But I could say a lot of great things about BB. I only have two beefs with him. Sadly, the Brady years are slipping away. What comes after that none of us willwant to see, I guarantee that. But I am hopeful we will get lucky once in the 4-5 yesars he has left and win it all again. And it will take some luck, unfortunatly.
     
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    [QUOTE]Babe is lucky Belichick is here.  Period.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I am lucky as hell Brady is here. Almost as lucky as Hoodie was picking him.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : It is frustrating TP. But I could say a lot of great things about BB. I only have two beefs with him. Sadly, the Brady years are slipping away. What comes after that none of us willwant to see, I guarantee that. But I am hopeful we will get lucky once in the 4-5 yesars he has left and win it all again. And it will take some luck, unfortunatly.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Babe...I don't share your cryptic view of the Patriots, once Brady leaves the gridiron. As long as BB remains, the team will continue to thrive. Let's hope that Ryan Mallett realizes his great potential, and becomes the Patriots' QB of the future. 

         As for the "Terrific One", the sky is the limit! Congressman Brady, Governor Brady, Senator Brady...are all within his reach. His wife earned forty-five (45) million dollars over the past twelve months!! What a life!: http://www.forbes.com/2011/05/05/top-earning-models.html    
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    The Solder, Cannon, Mallett and Downing picks were solid.  I think Randall Cobb would have been a better choice in late second than Verreen - and we could have picked him at 3rd round; if he was gone, we still would have had Ridley.  I did not like back to back RB choices.  Mark H of BC, to me, would have been a better selection than either of the guys we picked at 6 or 7.  Not much available in pro free agency for OLB, so it looks like wait till next years again and hope BB does somethiing positive in this area with at least 1 of 4 picks in the first two rounds of the 2012 draft.

    I agree with you TexasPat that a B is the grade for the 2011 Pats draft.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : I am lucky as hell Brady is here. Almost as lucky as Hoodie was picking him.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    No question that BB was lucky picking Tom Brady, no one can argue that they saw his success coming  - very few players that ARE expected to succeed actually do

    But, was BB lucky when he stuck with Brady in 2001 after Bledsoe got healthy - when the popular view was that Bledsoe should be playing? Or was that maybe good coaching?

    Reading your comments reminds me of any Ron Borges article about BB - especially after a Patriot loss ( not that there have been a ton of those)

    The King's ( AKA Rusty) pollyannaish drivel does get tiring at times but you sir, are trying way too hard too be contrary where BB is concerned - if you are legitimately a Patriot fan and not a well informed troll
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

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    [QUOTE]     Of course, without seeing the players selected perform on the field, it's silly to access a draft class. But, on a basis of value, here is my accessment:  1.) PICK #17: OT Nate Solder, Colorado:   http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=2431      Though it's true that the Pats have a great need at DE, there was an equal or, arguably, a greater need at LT. Matt Light is an UFA, and turns 33 in June. At this stage of his career, he's not worthy of the big money that he may be demanding. So, when BB had a shot at  Solder, a 6'8", 319 pound dancing bear of a man, with all the attributes you look for in an top NFL LT, he took him. The LT is of vital importance to a successful offense, second only to QB. GRADE: A; 2.) PICK #28: Traded to Saints for the 56th overall pick in 2011, and the Saint's #1 pick in 2012: The question here is, whether BB got sufficient value for this pick? The Pats dropped 28 spots in making this deal. A look at the NFL draft-value chart shows that the numerical value for the 28th overall pick is 660 points. The 56th overall selection is valued at 340 points. What's the Saints' #1 pick in 2012 going to be worth? Likely the same as the 56th overall pick is today. Why? Because when a team waits a year to make use of a pick, the present value of a #1 pick in 2012 is considered to be worth a second rounder today...a seconder rounder in 2012 is considered to be worth a 3rd rounder today, and so on. So...in making this trade, it appears that the Pats did nothing more than break even.      That being the case, why did the Patriots pass on a much needed 3-4 DE, Muhammad Wilkerson? Wilkerson would have filled a major need, and would not have gone to their chief rival, the New York Jets. The answer must be the BB did not think much of Wilkerson as a player. If Wilkerson flops in NY, the trade should be rated as a good one. But, if Wilkerson pans out, this trade could be a disaster.      As for Mark Ingram, the Patriots had no intention of taking him at #28. BB determined that there was equal or greater value at RB in the second and third rounds. Ingram is another player that bears watching, in order to determine whether the Pats got value in this trade. The bottom line is that the Pats apparently didn't view  any player available to them at the 28th pick, including Ingram and Wilkerson, to be worthy of such a high pick. Time will tell. GRADE: C; 3.) PICK #33: CB Ras-I Dowling, Virginia:   http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2156        Dowling wasn't ranked nearly as high as he was selected. But, he has all the attributes a team looks for in a starting CB. He's tall, standing over 6'1", has good speed, and good ball skills. The rub on him is that he's injury prone. He's suffered through a fractured left ankle, a hamstring strain, and an injury to his right knee. The first thing that popped into my head when the Pats chose him was former Pats' second round pick, Terrence (steel rod in wrist) Wheatley...and we all painfully remember how he turned out.       In taking Dowling, BB passed on edge rushers, OLB/DE Brooks Reed (taken by Houston, at #41), and DE/OLB Jabaal Sheard (taken by Cleveland, at #37). If either Reed or Sheard evolves into the second coming of Clay Matthews, depending on how well Dowling plays, this pick must go down as a disaster...and could cost the Pats a championship or two. Due to his horrid injury history, Dowling is a major gamble. It seems that that Pats could have gotten more value for so high a pick.    GRADE: D 4.) PICK #56: RB Shane Vereen, California:   http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2703          Say goodbye to Kevin Faulk. But, this was inevitable. Faulk is 34 years old, and needed to be replaced. What made Vareen a Patriot is that he's an excellent receiver, coming out of the backfield. He hauled in 74 passes during his career at Cal.. But, didn't the Pats have Faulk's replacement already, in Danny Woodhead? All purpose power RB Mikel Leshoure was available at #56, and was taken by the Lions at pick #57.  Couldn't Leshoure have been the second coming of Corey Dillon? Couldn't he have backed up, or eventually replaced, BLGE? Couldn't Vareen had been had at pick #60?      The tandum of Vereen and Woodhead could serve to prolong each others' careers. But, the Pats were in a position where they could have strengthened their RB position immeasurably, by adding both Vereen and Leshoure. WR was also a need...and guys like Torrey Smith (taken at #58 by the Ravens), Randall Cobb (taken at #64  by the Packers), and Greg Little (taken at #59 by Cleveland), all were available at pick #56. Vereen is a good player. But, he likely could have been had in the third round. BB could have, and should have, gotten a lot more value out of this pick: GRADE: D; 4.) PICK #60: Traded To the Houston Texans, for the 73rd and 138th overall picks: Pats could have taken a top WR, or RB Mikel Leshoure at #56. Then, they could have used this pick to draft Shane Vereen: GRADE: D; 5.) PICK #73: RB Stevan Ridley, LSU: http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2839         The Pats could have taken RB Leshoure, or a quality WR, as described above. Ridley is a power runner, who may turn out to be a good player. But, he likely could have been had in the 4th or 5th round. Again, BB could have, and should have, gotten more value for this pick: GRADE: D;        6.) PICK #74: QB Ryan Mallett, Arkansas: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/04/26/ryan.mallett/index.html         I have always felt that Mallett was the best QB in this draft class. But, there's got to be a compelling reason why the QB starved teams have passed on him. There likely are some serious, yet unpublicized issues, involving this kid. Nonetheless, he's  a kid,  who may be salvageable. If so, the Patriots have drafted the heir apparent to Tom Brady. Mallett has loads of talent, and physical attributes that can't be coached. An excellent gamble, at this point in the draft; GRADE: A;  7.) PICKS #92 & #125: Traded to the Oakland Raiders, in return for the Raiders' 219th overall selection, and their second round draft choice in 2012: This trade, along with BB's decisions on picks #33, 56, and 60 above, indicates that he sees the 2011 draft class as weak. BB could have used this selection on a needed OG/C. But, a second round draft choice is a valuable chip for next season.  GRADE: B; 8.) PICK #138: OG/OT Marcus Cannon, TCU: Huge man, who should become an eventual starter at RG for the Pats. Health concerns pushed Cannon back to the 5th round. But, there supposedly is a 90% chance that Cannon will experience a complete recovery. The Pats might "redshirt" Cannon this season, by placing him on the physically unable to perform list...much as they did with Brandon Tate. Excellent value on this 5th round selection, that fills a need: GRADE: A;    9.) PICK #159: TE Lee Smith, Marshall:   http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2628      In Smith, the Pats hope they found another Christian Fauria...a good back-up with dependable hands, who doesn't mind blocking. Solid 5th round pick; GRADE: B; 10.) PICK #194: DE/OLB Markell Carter, Central Arkansas: http://cdsdraft.com/profile.php?id=5676        At last, BB drafts a 3-4 OLB! Borderline prospect, as one would expect with such a low pick. Was not expected to get drafted. Why not throw away the pick, if you're going to waste it? TE Virgil Green, a Aaron Hernandez type, would have been worth a look; GRADE: C-;  11.) PICK #219: DB Malcolm Williams, TCU: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2011/04/analysis_of_7th.html      Yawn!! This guy couldn't even start for TCU! GRADE: F;       SUMMARY:  I wish BB had gotten more value in the second round, as I described above. Had he done so, this could have been a monster draft for the Pats. Solder and Dowling must develop into quality starters in order for this draft to be labeled as a success. Far more damage could have been done with picks #56 and 60. The addition of a deep threat like Torrey Smith, or a Deion Branch clone, like Randall Cobb, would have made a lot of sense. From the standpoint of value only, this draft appears to be somewhat of a disappointment. It will be interesting to see how players the Pats could have had, but passed on, such as Muhammad Wilkerson, Mark Ingram, Jabaal Sheard, Brooks Reed, Mikel Leshoure, Torrey Smith, and Randall Cobb, evolve.      That said, I loved the Ryan Mallett pick!! Mallett could be the heir apparent to Tom Brady...or could be traded at a later time for a high draft choice. The kid, under the tutorage of BB and Tom Brady, simply has too much talent to fail. As an added bonus, this pick could motivate Tom Brady to even greater heights...if that's possible!       BB also scored in round 5, landing RT/OG Marcus Cannon and Lee Smith. His selections late in round 6 and round 7 were gargantuan reaches.      Yes...the Pats did add the Saints' #1, and the Raiders' seconder rounder for 2012...which oif course adds value. But, the Pats should have gotten more mileage out of picks #56 and 60. Oh well...it is what it is!: GRADE: B-   
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Color me: Baffled

    Needs were OL (addressed), DE/OLB (ignored), and a stub RB (FUGHEDABOUDIT!)

    Year after year we hear about trades to accumulate draft picks for "next year". I'm going to be honest and say that I no longer care or will ever get excited about BB's trading for additional picks "nexst year". I've been teased one time too often, and feel like Charlie Brown despite KNOWING that Lucy's going to pull the football away at the last minute. Never again. I don't care if he trades the first #1 for 3 future #1's, and then takes a blind, one legged punter with a restructured knee with the other #1. I'll read about it in the papers, and get ready for yet another underachieving postseason (can you say "One and done"?) after going 11-5 or 12-4. Hey! I live in Phoenix, and am used to this. Look at the Suns for those many years.... 55 wins, and a "See ya later!" Even with Barkley playing, they were 1 player away, and never pilled the trigger to get one, but added "fringe" players instead.

    It's agreed that this year's draft was not particularly deep. But, while having 6 of the top 96 picks, with the exception of Solder, in my opinion, they came away empty handed. No one can convince me that they could have drafted 6 good/solid/quality guys that would have filled immediate needs, and NOT have injury/sickness issues in their background. They took an injury prone DB in round #2, and a cancer patient later on. I get the Solder pick; gotta keep Brady upright whenever possible. But the trades? Anyone still proud as punch and happy as hell over the Matthews fiasco? ANyone still honestly beliueve that Chung is THE answer? Instead of Matthews, we have a player that has not risen to being a solid starter and even a whisper of a Pro Bowl caliber player! But, the TRADE was made.

    I refuse to believe that the two RB's drafted COMBINED will stir any concerns of game play changing but the opposition. But, let's pass on Ingram. remember, "servicable" gets you less than 70 YPG and an early tee time in January, when facing stout NFL defenses in the playoffs. I find it amusing that "servicable" will never qualify for the QB, or OL position, but fits admirably at RB, when a big name, HEISMAN WINNING player is available.

    My grade: "H", as in "Here we go again...."

    Sure, I'll watch the games, seeing them rack up another 11-13 wins, and get bounced in the first or divisional round yet again. I'll read and hear about BB's ability to work wonders with "what he's got", while remembering that "what he's got" is EXACTLY what he wanted, instead of having what he should of/could of had. I'm not falling into that trap again. I'll never defend his roster for underachieving again. Admire that 'servicable" gropu pf RB's that NET less than 80 yards in the playoffs. Marvel at the guy that they drafted AFTER passing up Matthews. As of today, his best chance of getting to Canton is via a bus ticket.

    It's been a week and I'm STILL disappointed........ Saddest part is that he'll do it all over again in next year's draft.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    I don't see Rusty's perspective as 'polyann-ish' at all.  I see it as being totally in agreement with BB's approach; there is a huge difference.  I happen to share Rusty's views.  Is BB perfect?  Of course not.  I challenge anyone however to match BB's record in the cap era.  If you don't like his style that's fine.  But you can't question his results.  And with respect to where would BB be without Brady - I give you his 11-5 record in 2008.


     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    Great discussion going on here guys ... Kentucky Babe and TP3 you guys are really posting some great analysis/informed opinion.

    TP3 - your following statement is one I have to comment on:
    "Great pass-rushers are hard to find. Everybody GM wants them. But, if they're not available, a great coach finds another way to win."

    I would rebut (and I think the Babe would agree) that Yah sure they are hard to find and who says they are not available?  BUT if you never swing for the fence, you never hit a home run! BB seems to be willing to draft multiple players year after year with the hope of hitting a winner at the CB position - but not for a pass rusher. I'd just like to see the Pats taking a risk on finding a Clay Matthews et al. a lot more often and a lot earlier in the draft (not in the 5th round).

    It just seems to me that BB seems willing to take the risk of failure in the picking of multiple CBs year after year - Wheatie, Willhite, Butsy, McC ... in the hope of hitting a McC. I just wish that same aggressive drafting method would be taken with pass rushers.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSONE. Show PATSONE's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Color me: Baffled Needs were OL (addressed), DE/OLB (ignored), and a stub RB (FUGHEDABOUDIT!) Year after year we hear about trades to accumulate draft picks for "next year". I'm going to be honest and say that I no longer care or will ever get excited about BB's trading for additional picks "nexst year". I've been teased one time too often, and feel like Charlie Brown despite KNOWING that Lucy's going to pull the football away at the last minute. Never again. I don't care if he trades the first #1 for 3 future #1's, and then takes a blind, one legged punter with a restructured knee with the other #1. I'll read about it in the papers, and get ready for yet another underachieving postseason (can you say "One and done"?) after going 11-5 or 12-4. Hey! I live in Phoenix, and am used to this. Look at the Suns for those many years.... 55 wins, and a "See ya later!" Even with Barkley playing, they were 1 player away, and never pilled the trigger to get one, but added "fringe" players instead. It's agreed that this year's draft was not particularly deep. But, while having 6 of the top 96 picks, with the exception of Solder, in my opinion, they came away empty handed. No one can convince me that they could have drafted 6 good/solid/quality guys that would have filled immediate needs, and NOT have injury/sickness issues in their background. They took an injury prone DB in round #2, and a cancer patient later on. I get the Solder pick; gotta keep Brady upright whenever possible. But the trades? Anyone still proud as punch and happy as hell over the Matthews fiasco? ANyone still honestly beliueve that Chung is THE answer? Instead of Matthews, we have a player that has not risen to being a solid starter and even a whisper of a Pro Bowl caliber player! But, the TRADE was made. I refuse to believe that the two RB's drafted COMBINED will stir any concerns of game play changing but the opposition. But, let's pass on Ingram. remember, "servicable" gets you less than 70 YPG and an early tee time in January, when facing stout NFL defenses in the playoffs. I find it amusing that "servicable" will never qualify for the QB, or OL position, but fits admirably at RB, when a big name, HEISMAN WINNING player is available. My grade: "H", as in "Here we go again...." Sure, I'll watch the games, seeing them rack up another 11-13 wins, and get bounced in the first or divisional round yet again. I'll read and hear about BB's ability to work wonders with "what he's got", while remembering that "what he's got" is EXACTLY what he wanted, instead of having what he should of/could of had. I'm not falling into that trap again. I'll never defend his roster for underachieving again. Admire that 'servicable" gropu pf RB's that NET less than 80 yards in the playoffs. Marvel at the guy that they drafted AFTER passing up Matthews. As of today, his best chance of getting to Canton is via a bus ticket. It's been a week and I'm STILL disappointed........ Saddest part is that he'll do it all over again in next year's draft.
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

    Hey AZ if you really feel that way about it, why don't you become a JETS fan.  Their a great team, they made the AFC championship game two years in a row.  And just think how many year it took them to do it.

    Believe it or not the PATS are in a rebuilding mode....I know we haven't lost double digits games like most teams that rebuild, but BB is rebulding them. 

    You complain that we are one and done in the play offs...lets look at what BB did this past draft.  a) He got us the best OT in the draft.  Yes the best.  He has the most upside and will protect Brady for years to come.  Oh I forgot you think Brady only has a window of 3-4 years.  Well with Solder and Seabass for bookend I think just maybe Brady's window just got a litte bigger.  Should I talk about the other offense linemen he got to protect Brady as well?  After the guy recovers from his illness, the interior of our line will be set as well.  6'8' 350lbs guys that can move don't grow on trees.  And yes Mankin will get resigned.  Light's money will go to him.  

    I can't believe how short-sighted you are...the biggest problem we had the lst two year were addressed in both drafts and you complain...unreal

    oh I should probably address this statement as well.  2009 we were as you say one and done.  My opinion was that Welker being insured in the raven's game was the factor.  What did BB do...he got us two tight ends and woodly to replace his production and revamped the offense-no-moss.  He also got us Crumpler to protect Brady.  in 2010 we were one an done.  Offense again due to protection issues.  How many times was Tom pressured?  So BB goes out and get us the the best OT and guard available..he spares no expense for Brady.  And oh by the way he also get us Brady's heir apparent.


    by the r 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]Great discussion going on here guys ... Kentucky Babe and TP3 you guys are really posting some great analysis/informed opinion. TP3 - your following statement is one I have to comment on: "Great pass-rushers are hard to find. Everybody GM wants them. But, if they're not available, a great coach finds another way to win." I would rebut (and I think the Babe would agree) that Yah sure they are hard to find and who says they are not available?  BUT if you never swing for the fence, you never hit a home run! BB seems to be willing to draft multiple players year after year with the hope of hitting a winner at the CB position - but not for a pass rusher. I'd just like to see the Pats taking a risk on finding a Clay Matthews et al. a lot more often and a lot earlier in the draft (not in the 5th round). It just seems to me that BB seems willing to take the risk of failure in the picking of multiple CBs year after year - Wheatie, Willhite, Butsy, McC ... in the hope of hitting a McC. I just wish that same aggressive drafting method would be taken with pass rushers.
    Posted by CanadianPat[/QUOTE]

    Part of the problem here CP, I think, is that when you throw a bunch of high picks at a problem (the D) and they aren't making you look so hot, you tend to keep at it with them so as to not red light your error in those choices. It's not just BB that is this way. Most people in the NFL have such a tendency, and throughout pro team sports in general.

    In the 3 previous drafts he has chosen 8 defenders in the 1st or 2nd round. And despite that huge investment the D remains suspect. That's nearly 3/4 of the D in a very short window. Bill is sticking with his choices until the bitter end it appears and is just continuing on his merry way with stocking up picks for when that bitter end arrives, if it does.

    The casualty in this, if it is the case, is time. And every Pat's fan knows time is not on our side reagrding a certain HOF QB we will likely never see the likes of again. And that is the great flaw in the BB master plan.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Part of the problem here CP, I think, is that when you throw a bunch of high picks at a problem (the D) and they aren't making you look so hot, you tend to keep at it with them so as to not red light your error in those choices. It's not just BB that is this way. Most people in the NFL have such a tendency, and throughout pro team sports in general. In the 3 previous drafts he has chosen 8 defenders in the 1st or 2nd round. And despite that huge investment the D remains suspect. That's nearly 3/4 of the D in a very short window. Bill is sticking with his choices until the bitter end it appears and is just continuing on his merry way with stocking up picks for when that bitter end arrives, if it does. The casualty in this, if it is the case, is time. And every Pat's fan knows time is not on our side reagrding a certain HOF QB we will likely never see the likes of again. And that is the great flaw in the BB master plan.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Evidently, BB values CBs more than he does OLBs. The Jets too needed a pass-rushing OLB...and didn't get one. Yet, they have built their strong defense around their ILBs (Bart Scott and David Harris), and their secondary, led by CBs Antonio Cromartie and Darrelle Revis. The Pats also have a strong corp of ILBs (Mayo, Spikes, and Guyton)...and an improved secondary, led by CBs Devin McCourty, Leigh Bodden, and now, Ras-I Dowling.   
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : You are an intelligent and reasonable Pat's fan, so it is a pleasure to discuss this with you. I'm really not that hard on BB. I just don't rationalize his every move as the perfect one. He is an outstanding COACH. He is a shrewd trader. His team building skills overall are above average but lack well behind his coaching skills. He is far from the head of the class in drafting or FA signing. His legend was primarily built on the three SB wins and those were gained largly by having a number of outstanding players he did not acquire. He has benifitted greatly by having a HOF QB for most of his years with the Pats. His record without Brady has been rather dismal, making the playoffs only once in 7 tries. His collossal blunder of spygate boggles the mind. Actually, Brady's PR in the playoff loss to the jets was right about on his career playoff number. But yeah, he obviously didn't play his best. But I can almost assure you, if you allow a career 70 passer who has thrown more picks than TDs to put up a 127, you are going to lose. BB has tried to fix the D. But high picks like Butler, Spikes, Cunningham, Chung, Brace, Wheatley and Merriwheather have done little to fix the problem. Seven picks in the 2nd round or better on D and we have a dismal D to show for it. Nobody is winning a SB with a D this bad. The offense clearly was not a problem last year. So the holes you mention have a priority. The formula for success in the league these days is an elite QB and a stout D. Other formulas can work but are not nearly as likely. The very strong O and blah D formula will win you a ton of games during the season but when you face good D in the playoffs your outstanding O just might get stopped and you need that stout D to keep you in it. Basically, BB has turned us into the Colts. And this draft shows just more of the same failed philosophy. I would have preferred he traded up a few spots to get Quinn and taken Carimi at 28. I have no real problem with him going for a CB with 33. I had the needs as OLB, OL, DE, CB in that order. I don't see much of a change to the team from this draft. We are still the Colts North. Maybe he will sign a FA that will dazzle me and change that perception.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    hey babeparilli,
     i share your observations and opinions and commented several times on the thread "Is there an explanation for this madness?" by spetznaz. it's refreshing  to see some people (other than me) saying what they see without fearing being called "you're not a true fan" by others who are fearful and defensive about our team while insisting to not see what is right in front of them.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Color me: Baffled Needs were OL (addressed), DE/OLB (ignored), and a stub RB (FUGHEDABOUDIT!) Year after year we hear about trades to accumulate draft picks for "next year". I'm going to be honest and say that I no longer care or will ever get excited about BB's trading for additional picks "nexst year". I've been teased one time too often, and feel like Charlie Brown despite KNOWING that Lucy's going to pull the football away at the last minute. Never again. I don't care if he trades the first #1 for 3 future #1's, and then takes a blind, one legged punter with a restructured knee with the other #1. I'll read about it in the papers, and get ready for yet another underachieving postseason (can you say "One and done"?) after going 11-5 or 12-4. Hey! I live in Phoenix, and am used to this. Look at the Suns for those many years.... 55 wins, and a "See ya later!" Even with Barkley playing, they were 1 player away, and never pilled the trigger to get one, but added "fringe" players instead. It's agreed that this year's draft was not particularly deep. But, while having 6 of the top 96 picks, with the exception of Solder, in my opinion, they came away empty handed. No one can convince me that they could have drafted 6 good/solid/quality guys that would have filled immediate needs, and NOT have injury/sickness issues in their background. They took an injury prone DB in round #2, and a cancer patient later on. I get the Solder pick; gotta keep Brady upright whenever possible. But the trades? Anyone still proud as punch and happy as hell over the Matthews fiasco? ANyone still honestly beliueve that Chung is THE answer? Instead of Matthews, we have a player that has not risen to being a solid starter and even a whisper of a Pro Bowl caliber player! But, the TRADE was made. I refuse to believe that the two RB's drafted COMBINED will stir any concerns of game play changing but the opposition. But, let's pass on Ingram. remember, "servicable" gets you less than 70 YPG and an early tee time in January, when facing stout NFL defenses in the playoffs. I find it amusing that "servicable" will never qualify for the QB, or OL position, but fits admirably at RB, when a big name, HEISMAN WINNING player is available. My grade: "H", as in "Here we go again...." Sure, I'll watch the games, seeing them rack up another 11-13 wins, and get bounced in the first or divisional round yet again. I'll read and hear about BB's ability to work wonders with "what he's got", while remembering that "what he's got" is EXACTLY what he wanted, instead of having what he should of/could of had. I'm not falling into that trap again. I'll never defend his roster for underachieving again. Admire that 'servicable" gropu pf RB's that NET less than 80 yards in the playoffs. Marvel at the guy that they drafted AFTER passing up Matthews. As of today, his best chance of getting to Canton is via a bus ticket. It's been a week and I'm STILL disappointed........ Saddest part is that he'll do it all over again in next year's draft.
    Posted by AZPAT[/QUOTE]

    "Needs were OL (addressed), DE/OLB (ignored), and a stud RB (FUGHEDABOUDIT!)"

    love it! thanks for the humor and the reality!

    " I'll never defend his roster for underachieving again."

    i wish about 500 other people who post here would say that.

    admit it, great coach, great ability to stockpile picks, average or below average
    talent evaluation/draft selection ability. if they ran their house more professionally (like the other top franchises do) with a good gm, bb's abilities and brady's abilities could be most utilized.

    we should have won more super bowls
    and we should have selected difference makers on defense in recent years.
    this year alone, many teams drafted much better in my eyes, including the teams drafting behind us. and i will say again, draft pick accumulation only works as a strategy if you are willing to use the bounty you have created to draft the  top players you need to win a championship.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : hey babeparilli,  i share your observations and opinions and commented several times on the thread " Is there an explanation for this madness? " by spetznaz. it's refreshing  to see some people (other than me) saying what they see without fearing being called "you're not a true fan" by others who are fearful and defensive about our team while insisting to not see what is right in front of them.
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]

    I am glad too that a few of us are daring to question the genius. I was drinking the kool-aide until about 4 years ago. Of course 2007 was a shot in the arm against any suspicions that BB was not this infallible team builder. But looking back at it all, at his entire history, especially without Brady, it was pretty convincing that he is a great Xs and Os guy, but not a top GM.

    I love my fellow Pat's fans and don't take pleasure in pointing out their hero isn't all he's cracked up to be. But more than my fellow fans I love my team. And anybody, including the genius, that is not doing right by that team is going to be called out by me. Maybe if some more of us started demanding more Kraft would get wind and bring in somebody with better team building skills for GM and let Bill do what he does well - coach.


    This was a critical draft. In order to get a D in place that was championship worthy and do that within the window of the few prime years Brady has left this draft LOADED with outstanding front 7 guys needed to be hit hard. That opportunity could not have been blown in a worse way by Matt Millen. It is impossible to fathom what the hell Hoodie is thinking. After some pretty lame drafting for some years he finally hit it big with McCourty last year  (and Mayo before that), only to completely miss the boat yet again. He has drafted nearly 3/4 worth of the D with 1st or 2nd round picks in the 3 previous years and the D is still highly suspect. That is no genius.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : "Needs were OL (addressed), DE/OLB (ignored), and a stud RB (FUGHEDABOUDIT!)" love it! thanks for the humor and the reality! " I'll never defend his roster for underachieving again." i wish about 500 other people who post here would say that. admit it, great coach, great ability to stockpile picks, average or below average talent evaluation/draft selection ability. if they ran their house more professionally (like the other top franchises do) with a good gm, bb's abilities and brady's abilities could be most utilized. we should have won more super bowls and we should have selected difference makers on defense in recent years. this year alone, many teams drafted much better in my eyes, including the teams drafting behind us. and i will say again, draft pick accumulation only works as a strategy if you are willing to use the bounty you have created to draft the  top players you need to win a championship.
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]

    Well said. Notice the best players on the D are all 1st rounders.

    What is truly maddening, is that he keeps trading down for the future. But guess what Bill? There is no damned future when Brady is gone! You will never get that lucky again in your life! You don't have time to screw around like you have been, and now it's most  likely too late.

    He always says he's going to do what's best for the team. No he isn't. He's going to do what feeds his control freak needs. Get somebody in there who can evaluate talent! Hell, there were a ton of ordinary fans saying pick Matthews a few years back. But there's Bill trading out of the 1st entirely and giving us Chung, Brace and Butler in the 2nd. Sheesh.

    And while I'm at it, what is with the on the job training of inexperienced coaches? Get some experienced people. This one man show doesn't get it done!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Well said. Notice the best players on the D are all 1st rounders. What is truly maddening, is that he keeps trading down for the future. But guess what Bill? There is no damned future when Brady is gone! You will never get that lucky again in your life! You don't have time to screw around like you have been, and now it's most  likely too late. He always says he's going to do what's best for the team. No he isn't. He's going to do what feeds his control freak needs. Get somebody in there who can evaluate talent! Hell, there were a ton of ordinary fans saying pick Matthews a few years back. But there's Bill trading out of the 1st entirely and giving us Chung, Brace and Butler in the 2nd. Sheesh. And while I'm at it, what is with the on the job training of inexperienced coaches? Get some experienced people. This one man show doesn't get it done!
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Kentucky Babe:

         Do you have any complaints about the 2010 draft? The "average at best" GM, BB, seemingly didn't fare too badly then, did he? He drafted a pro-bowl CB in Devin McCourty...a potential pro-bowl caliber TE in Rob Gronkowski...a 3-4 OLB with pass-rush potential in Jermaine Cunningham...and, if he can keep his head on straight, a potential beast of an ILB in Brandon Spikes. Plus...he made  two lopsided trades, which netted the Pats the 33rd and 74th overall picks in this draft. Please enlighten us as to which other GM fared better in 2010??  
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

         Here's more on the Patriots' draft selections: http://www.examiner.com/new-england-patriots-in-boston/new-england-patriots-2011-nfl-draft-grades
     
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