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Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : I am glad too that a few of us are daring to question the genius. I was drinking the kool-aide until about 4 years ago. Of course 2007 was a shot in the arm against any suspicions that BB was not this infallible team builder. But looking back at it all, at his entire history, especially without Brady, it was pretty convincing that he is a great Xs and Os guy, but not a top GM. I love my fellow Pat's fans and don't take pleasure in pointing out their hero isn't all he's cracked up to be. But more than my fellow fans I love my team. And anybody, including the genius, that is not doing right by that team is going to be called out by me. Maybe if some more of us started demanding more Kraft would get wind and bring in somebody with better team building skills for GM and let Bill do what he does well - coach. This was a critical draft. In order to get a D in place that was championship worthy and do that within the window of the few prime years Brady has left this draft LOADED with outstanding front 7 guys needed to be hit hard. That opportunity could not have been blown in a worse way by Matt Millen. It is impossible to fathom what the hell Hoodie is thinking. After some pretty lame drafting for some years he finally hit it big with McCourty last year  (and Mayo before that), only to completely miss the boat yet again. He has drafted nearly 3/4 worth of the D with 1st or 2nd round picks in the 3 previous years and the D is still highly suspect. That is no genius.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    "And anybody, including the genius, that is not doing right by that team is going to be called out by me. "

    go man go. it's your / our team too. we've got a right to fight for it (for good decision-making, organization,etc - not fight literally)

    "hat opportunity could not have been blown in a worse way by Matt Millen."

    whoa man, that's driving a point home.

    not sure about that one, millen, whoa.

    yeah with 9 opportunities we could have done a LOT of damage on the front 7.
    sure we needed o lin and a tall db is great. but you cant not prioritize the weakest part of our team for 3 years when you have 9 picks.

    cripes, see green bay picking last, houston-had a terrible defense-their picks change that overnight.

    we'll see if  the risks payoff, but regardless, there should have been more priority at de and olb.

    thanks babeparilli.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Well said. Notice the best players on the D are all 1st rounders. What is truly maddening, is that he keeps trading down for the future. But guess what Bill? There is no damned future when Brady is gone! You will never get that lucky again in your life! You don't have time to screw around like you have been, and now it's most  likely too late. He always says he's going to do what's best for the team. No he isn't. He's going to do what feeds his control freak needs. Get somebody in there who can evaluate talent! Hell, there were a ton of ordinary fans saying pick Matthews a few years back. But there's Bill trading out of the 1st entirely and giving us Chung, Brace and Butler in the 2nd. Sheesh. And while I'm at it, what is with the on the job training of inexperienced coaches? Get some experienced people. This one man show doesn't get it done!
    Posted by BabeParilli


    hey babe, you are onto it. i posted some analysis of the errors and the habits which led to the predictable conclusions of bb's personality, his strengths and particularly, weaknesses that explain everything from asst coach choices to draft choices. it was in the mb draft thread (the 7500 posts one).

    incidentally do you know how to navigate seeing a persons post past the first 10 or so, my attempts seem to only pull up the first page, then it shoots me over to the thread of the last post on that page (but never to the rest of the posts from any person)?
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    The problem with the folks who think BB is an average at best GM is that they don't have anybody to compare in the league with the exception of maybe Pittsburgh.  To stay at the top and consistently draft at the end of the order is truly something.  Always there. Another angst is the last two playoff losses.  They can't differentiate the two and the differences are glaring. You have to question the mantra.  No pass rush therefore BB can't draft and the draft is poor.  Silly. 
    Posted by garytx


    hi gartyx,

    "To stay at the top and consistently draft at the end of the order is truly something."

    bb's strengths, including in the draft, are glaring, apparently though his weaknesses are glaring only to some.


     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : I do agree with that assessment - a lot. Why BB did not move up for Quinn and take Carimi later is a mystery to me. I couldn't believe Quinn dropped that low.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    babe, did you read my post after the jets game analyzing the pats needs and the changes that needed to be made?  quinn was the second player on my list after dareus for the pats as far as need and fit (of course dareus was too high to get) mayock 2 months later had the same opinion.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3



    " Remember Vernon Gholston? How do you know that Quinn will amount to anything?



    the truth is we will never know because bb wont take the stud de or olb
    but you can say the same about almost all our picks, they were more risky than quinn (see walter football analysis for reference)



     How do you know if BB was able to move up to take Quinn, without mortgaging the farm?


    mortgaging the farm to move above 14?


     Even if BB had been able to do so, then the Pats' wouldn't have been able to land LT Nate Solder, QB Ryan Mallett, and OT/OG Marcus Cannon (which they in essence acquired for their 60th overall pick). Yes, the Pats need a pass-rusher. But protecting Tom Brady is job one. So...LT was the greater need, and Solder was the safer pick. 


    I couldn't believe Quinn dropped that low.

    RESPONSE: Quinn dropped to #14 overall. Could it be that BB and others knew far more about Quinn than we? Quinn also is a bit of a medical risk:"




     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3



    "RESPONSE: Though that's a true stat, it's also an unfair one. The Pats got jobbed in 2006, came within two minutes of being named the greatest team of all-time in 2007, and were the best team in the AFC, save for an admittedly horrendous playoff performance against the Jets. But, other than Green Bay, who do you see as being the team to beat in the NFL in 2011-2013? "

    this brings another criticism i want to bring to light. i always found bb a little too conservative in game calling. made for extremely close super bowls when we won them (which is why i wouldnt make that criticism on these games alone) and made our chances of winning in the playoffs since o4 and in sb 2007 less likely because of it.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD (Rounds 1-3)

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD (Rounds 1-3):
    Love Solder. He was the best pure prospect on the board really at that time on many boards, and the best OL in the draft. Also, I had Mallett as the best QB in the draft, and hoped he would slip so NE could groom him for a few seasons. I like the trade outs, so long as the players NE selected were ok. Otherwise, they just pushed some picks along till next season .. effectively trading a second for a second and a first for a first, which is ok if you really don't like anyone hanging around that year .. but I liked some guys in there.   I'd be kinder to the Vereen selection. I had him pretty high on my board, and think he is very different from Woody or BJGE. I thought they would wait and snag someone closer to the third round like Kendall Hunter. But I had Vereen neck and neck with LeShoure and Ingram. I would have thought WR would be a bigger need, but Vereen is BB taking a shot at a feature back.  Vereen is 15 pounds heavier than Faulk or Woody and has much better top speed. At the same time, he is only 5 pounds lighter than BJGE and has much better moves. His work at Cal is much more promising than Ingram ... we at least got to see him have to fight through NFL size holes, whereas Ingram and LeShoure's highlight reels look like one horse races with 10 ft wide gates. BB's hope, which is apparent, is that BJGE becomes a valuable backup, and Woody becomes situtational. Vereen plays in all the 2TE sets and most single back, becoming (hopefully) a Marshall Faulk kind of contributor who can do everything.  That said, Dowling is a question mark and will be the cloud on this draft. There is immense  pressure for him to succeed and stay healthy . I understand (and have been a proponent that) you cannot have enough great CBs in modern Mungy era. But the list of players he needs to outplay (Cam Heyward, Mo Wilkerson, Jabal Sheard, Akeem Ayers, and Brooks Reed) is long and full of some good talent (though I would only have taken Reed there). He also puts pressure on Cunningham, Nink, Fletcher, and Moore. After the draft BB's words were "We have guys at OLB who are still developing that we like." If Dowling turns out like McCourty, then BB looks smart ... and (coincidentally) this defense looks a lot like the NY Jets' D, in that it's all big corners who are great cover guys and form tacklers. But he better be, or Cunningham better make leaps and bounds out there, because NE has a mediocre rush at best and haven't addressed it.  Left on the board? Well, the kid from your home state Sam Acho is still there. Greg Romeus .. but he isn't really a stander ... so not sure if NE is going to move on any of these kids.  Also didn't like the Ridley pick ... he is a gamble. He breaks tackles and runs forward, but that is all. I don't see him as more than a short yardage back and he is freak large like Peyton Hillis or Jamaal Lewis, where he can drag LBers around, so I don't understand it, especially when someone like Leonard Hankerson was on the board, who could have helped shore up  NE's incredibly weak perimter WR unit. 
    Posted by zbellino
    I like the drafting of both of the backs Ridley and Vereen they are different types of backs and will compliment Woody and BJGE nicely,I hope BB brings back Faulk too play SR. As a note woody runs a 4.38 forty I doubt Vereen is faster!!!!
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    There's more than one way to run a defense.  Some teams draft 4-3 players and some draft 3-4 players.  If one has been better than the other it would be the 3-4, but at some point all the good 3-4 players will be spread thinly among 28 teams and the other four teams will all have quality 4-3 players, so things will even out someday.

    BB runs a defense which was 30th in pass defense yards but which was 1st in interceptions.  An interception, if pulled off within field goal range and if run back for a touchdown, is a 10 point play.  It scores 7 points, plus it yanks the opponent out of easy field goal range and puts them at their own 25 yard line or so when they finally get the ball back.  Finally, a sudden ten point shift makes the opposing quarterback a bit more gun-shy. 

    I also note that more of the yardage given up is on the opponent's side of the ball.  I suspect that the Patriots defense gives up plenty of third down cheap yards at the opponent's 25 yard line when actual points are not going to be scored, but fewer yards when points are on the line.  Points are definitely on the line when an opponent is 10 yards away from reasonable field goal position, or when an opponent is in the red zone. 

    BB is playing his players for wins his way.  There's a cost to letting an opponent make a first down through the air, but there's a much greater cost to letting an opponent get behind a defense and score a touchdown.  There's also more profit in giving up a few cheap first downs and getting a few interceptions in return.  Two bad things can happen when you put the ball in the air, and BB will pay a reasonable price to increase the chances of the worst possibility.

    He's going to play Cunningham and Tully Banta-Cain at OLB.  Cunningham only had one sack all season, but he was a major force in causing lots of those interceptions, so he starts.  TBC had a ten sack season in 2009 so he starts.

    On the defensive line, Ty Warren is coming back.  BB has pass-disrupting defensive ends on the roster, and Vince Wilfork likes to push too.  Pushing an offensive lineman into the quarterback's lap doesn't look as impressive as a sack, but it still leads to interceptions. 

    BB is apparently satisfied with being 30th in defensive yards given up but 1st in interceptions, and so he doesn't need too many more defensive players right now, thank you.  Of the many people telling BB to reduce his defensive third down percentage and increase his sack totals, none of them are coaching NFL teams.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Well said. Notice the best players on the D are all 1st rounders. What is truly maddening, is that he keeps trading down for the future. But guess what Bill? There is no damned future when Brady is gone! You will never get that lucky again in your life! You don't have time to screw around like you have been, and now it's most  likely too late. He always says he's going to do what's best for the team. No he isn't. He's going to do what feeds his control freak needs. Get somebody in there who can evaluate talent! Hell, there were a ton of ordinary fans saying pick Matthews a few years back. But there's Bill trading out of the 1st entirely and giving us Chung, Brace and Butler in the 2nd. Sheesh. And while I'm at it, what is with the on the job training of inexperienced coaches? Get some experienced people. This one man show doesn't get it done!
    Posted by BabeParilli
    hey Babe what team are you the GM of? what makes you think your idea of prospect is better than BB's? To all of the non working members of an NFL team please enlighten us with your own genius oh great Babe!!!! Last time I checked BB had authored two Super bowl Championships and was responsible for the two that Tuna took claim too,for those with basic math skills that would be 4 SB's in 20 years,not to nit pick but name the other GM's or HC's that have accomplished this much.... You don't like the way he uses the draft we get that much but that doesn't show us what a talent evaluator you are,also take into consideration BB does run the team on a daily basis so he probably has a better working knowledge of what the actual needs of his team are...However good luck finding work in the NFL as a scout/talent evaluator.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : You are a classic case of a knee jerk fan.   It took GB YEARS to instill that 3-4 D to make it work.  Up until 2009, GB fans were up in arms with Ted Thompson, letting Favre go, blasting Mike McCarthy, etc.  Very similar to irrational fans here. They couldn't see the forest for the trees. Just 3 years ago, that secondary was swiss cheese.  So was the front line. It takes time. They let Aaron Kampman go in 2010 because he was not a 3-4 player and was going to cost a lot.  Remind you of something here with Seymour??? "After finishing the 2008 season with a 6–10 record, the Packers held the 9th selection in the 2009 NFL Draft . With the pick they selected defensive tackle B. J. Raji of Boston College . After selecting Raji, they then traded picks 2–41, 3–73 and 3–83 to the New England Patriots for picks 1–26 and 5–162. With pick 1–26, the Packers selected linebacker Clay Matthews of USC ." Nice moves. But, so have NE's moves in recent drafts.  NE went 11-5 with Cassel in 2008 and GB??  6-10. Uh-huh. They had injury issues, depth issues, etc. They made some wise choices in the draft (Hawk, Matthews, BJ Raji, undrafted Tramon Williams, etc) and it came together. Mayo, McCourty and maybe Cunningham are 3 names that rival the quality of the above players GB brought in.   Throw in guys like Chung on D, maybe Spikes, and the signing of Leigh Bodden and you can see the efficiency of each team's approach. NE, for example, is a lot closer to this situation than a Houston is.  I don't know what games you are watching. As for Houston, we've heard about their defensive draft picks for years, including the gifted Alabama CB, Kareem Jackson.  DeMeco Ryans can't do it all with Mario Williams. JJ Watt was a great pick and will help, no doubt, but it's not always about assembling a few high end college level players. Their depth is terrible and they aren't dominant whatsoever.    Fans like you and Babe will flat out disappear during next season when NE is winning another division and possibly being in their best position since 2007 to make a run.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing



    i watch and am a fan because i enjoy it. if i am not on this site making posts it will be because i have higher priorities in my life at that time, not because of how many wins or losses we have. thanks for reading and your comments.
     
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