Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    There's more than one way to run a defense.  Some teams draft 4-3 players and some draft 3-4 players.  If one has been better than the other it would be the 3-4, but at some point all the good 3-4 players will be spread thinly among 28 teams and the other four teams will all have quality 4-3 players, so things will even out someday.

    BB runs a defense which was 30th in pass defense yards but which was 1st in interceptions.  An interception, if pulled off within field goal range and if run back for a touchdown, is a 10 point play.  It scores 7 points, plus it yanks the opponent out of easy field goal range and puts them at their own 25 yard line or so when they finally get the ball back.  Finally, a sudden ten point shift makes the opposing quarterback a bit more gun-shy. 

    I also note that more of the yardage given up is on the opponent's side of the ball.  I suspect that the Patriots defense gives up plenty of third down cheap yards at the opponent's 25 yard line when actual points are not going to be scored, but fewer yards when points are on the line.  Points are definitely on the line when an opponent is 10 yards away from reasonable field goal position, or when an opponent is in the red zone. 

    BB is playing his players for wins his way.  There's a cost to letting an opponent make a first down through the air, but there's a much greater cost to letting an opponent get behind a defense and score a touchdown.  There's also more profit in giving up a few cheap first downs and getting a few interceptions in return.  Two bad things can happen when you put the ball in the air, and BB will pay a reasonable price to increase the chances of the worst possibility.

    He's going to play Cunningham and Tully Banta-Cain at OLB.  Cunningham only had one sack all season, but he was a major force in causing lots of those interceptions, so he starts.  TBC had a ten sack season in 2009 so he starts.

    On the defensive line, Ty Warren is coming back.  BB has pass-disrupting defensive ends on the roster, and Vince Wilfork likes to push too.  Pushing an offensive lineman into the quarterback's lap doesn't look as impressive as a sack, but it still leads to interceptions. 

    BB is apparently satisfied with being 30th in defensive yards given up but 1st in interceptions, and so he doesn't need too many more defensive players right now, thank you.  Of the many people telling BB to reduce his defensive third down percentage and increase his sack totals, none of them are coaching NFL teams.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Well said. Notice the best players on the D are all 1st rounders. What is truly maddening, is that he keeps trading down for the future. But guess what Bill? There is no damned future when Brady is gone! You will never get that lucky again in your life! You don't have time to screw around like you have been, and now it's most  likely too late. He always says he's going to do what's best for the team. No he isn't. He's going to do what feeds his control freak needs. Get somebody in there who can evaluate talent! Hell, there were a ton of ordinary fans saying pick Matthews a few years back. But there's Bill trading out of the 1st entirely and giving us Chung, Brace and Butler in the 2nd. Sheesh. And while I'm at it, what is with the on the job training of inexperienced coaches? Get some experienced people. This one man show doesn't get it done!
    Posted by BabeParilli
    hey Babe what team are you the GM of? what makes you think your idea of prospect is better than BB's? To all of the non working members of an NFL team please enlighten us with your own genius oh great Babe!!!! Last time I checked BB had authored two Super bowl Championships and was responsible for the two that Tuna took claim too,for those with basic math skills that would be 4 SB's in 20 years,not to nit pick but name the other GM's or HC's that have accomplished this much.... You don't like the way he uses the draft we get that much but that doesn't show us what a talent evaluator you are,also take into consideration BB does run the team on a daily basis so he probably has a better working knowledge of what the actual needs of his team are...However good luck finding work in the NFL as a scout/talent evaluator.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : You are a classic case of a knee jerk fan.   It took GB YEARS to instill that 3-4 D to make it work.  Up until 2009, GB fans were up in arms with Ted Thompson, letting Favre go, blasting Mike McCarthy, etc.  Very similar to irrational fans here. They couldn't see the forest for the trees. Just 3 years ago, that secondary was swiss cheese.  So was the front line. It takes time. They let Aaron Kampman go in 2010 because he was not a 3-4 player and was going to cost a lot.  Remind you of something here with Seymour??? "After finishing the 2008 season with a 6–10 record, the Packers held the 9th selection in the 2009 NFL Draft . With the pick they selected defensive tackle B. J. Raji of Boston College . After selecting Raji, they then traded picks 2–41, 3–73 and 3–83 to the New England Patriots for picks 1–26 and 5–162. With pick 1–26, the Packers selected linebacker Clay Matthews of USC ." Nice moves. But, so have NE's moves in recent drafts.  NE went 11-5 with Cassel in 2008 and GB??  6-10. Uh-huh. They had injury issues, depth issues, etc. They made some wise choices in the draft (Hawk, Matthews, BJ Raji, undrafted Tramon Williams, etc) and it came together. Mayo, McCourty and maybe Cunningham are 3 names that rival the quality of the above players GB brought in.   Throw in guys like Chung on D, maybe Spikes, and the signing of Leigh Bodden and you can see the efficiency of each team's approach. NE, for example, is a lot closer to this situation than a Houston is.  I don't know what games you are watching. As for Houston, we've heard about their defensive draft picks for years, including the gifted Alabama CB, Kareem Jackson.  DeMeco Ryans can't do it all with Mario Williams. JJ Watt was a great pick and will help, no doubt, but it's not always about assembling a few high end college level players. Their depth is terrible and they aren't dominant whatsoever.    Fans like you and Babe will flat out disappear during next season when NE is winning another division and possibly being in their best position since 2007 to make a run.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing



    i watch and am a fan because i enjoy it. if i am not on this site making posts it will be because i have higher priorities in my life at that time, not because of how many wins or losses we have. thanks for reading and your comments.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    I am quite certain, if BB had moved up and taken Quinn then taken Carimi at #28 just about everybody here that defends what he actually did would be RAVING about how brilliant he is. And thus, if you self reflect, you will see you are spinning under heavy dose of kool-aide when you tout this draft.
    Posted by BabeParilli


    The problem with your rationale is how are the Patriots supposed to know that Gabe Carimi is around at 28? I mean obviously they like Solder a lot better than Carimi anyways. On top of that they only had 5 (I think) picks in 2012. They needed to trade something to get future picks and they did a pretty good job of that picking up another first and second for next season.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    I'm a Patriots fan of over 50 years and I have never seen this organization run as smoothly as this ever. BB is a great HC and a more than adequate GM/President. His approach is flexible both on offense and defense. If you want a glitzy guy than you should follow another team because BB is far from glitzy,I'll take a team that wins a large percentage of it's games with a boring coach over a high profile gotta be seen on TV guy who losses more than he wins type of guy all day long. The hoodie will win his third Super Bowl with the Patriots this year.So for all the fair weather fans remember back to the days of Babe Parilli when they couldn't win squat...
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    Right, exactly.   Me, and other fans, seeing the methodical, smart, long term approach for what it is means I am a "kool-aid drinker".  Yes!  You are so wise, Babe. You sure sound more intelligent than myself. lol Translation: I get it, you don't, likely to a lack of rational ability or intelligence, so you lash out on a messageboard. Let me tell you something: Go drop your junk on about 90% of NFL markets, to NFL fans, there and they'll look at you like you are Jeffrey Dahmer.   90% of other NFL fans are either in awe of what NE is doing or insanely jealous. You clearly live in a bubble and are absolutely clueless how badly other organizations struggle year to year, even making the playoffs.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    The 90% of NFL fans you refer to would say BB is a great coach, but a cheater. Are you sure you want to bring their opinion of him into the discussion? Or is picking and choosing their take on him your latest spin?

    Where you miss the boat is that long term no longer applies here. When Brady is gone the party is over for BB. He will then be what he has aleways been. A guy who gets to the playoffs once every 7 years.  Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say hee makes it every 5th year Then you will call for his head and act like you knew it all along.

    But maybe he will again make the luckiest pick in the history of the NFL and find another HOF QB in the 6th round. Don't hold your breat though.

    Unfortunatly for you, facts don't help your case much, so you have to rely on spin to try to prove your correct.









     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    I'm a Patriots fan of over 50 years and I have never seen this organization run as smoothly as this ever. BB is a great HC and a more than adequate GM/President. His approach is flexible both on offense and defense. If you want a glitzy guy than you should follow another team because BB is far from glitzy,I'll take a team that wins a large percentage of it's games with a boring coach over a high profile gotta be seen on TV guy who losses more than he wins type of guy all day long. The hoodie will win his third Super Bowl with the Patriots this year.So for all the fair weather fans remember back to the days of Babe Parilli when they couldn't win squat...
    Posted by sportsbozo1


    Who cares about glitz? I would take Stephen Hawking if he could win us the SB.

    I'm not one to embrace the "we won a lot of games" mantra. Who cares, it's about the SB and nothing else. Always has been, always will be.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : The problem with your rationale is how are the Patriots supposed to know that Gabe Carimi is around at 28? I mean obviously they like Solder a lot better than Carimi anyways. On top of that they only had 5 (I think) picks in 2012. They needed to trade something to get future picks and they did a pretty good job of that picking up another first and second for next season.
    Posted by CaptainZdeno33


         That aside, the other problem with Babe's rationale is that Carimi is not projected to be a starting LT in the pros. He's best suited as a RT, or a guard.

         You're correct in saying that Solder is a much better prospect.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    So, really, you placed the priority of watching back to back episodes of Jerry Springer above responding earlier today. I love how you agree with Babe Parilli, someone who is completely irrational with the assessment of Bill Belichick's incredible run as a GM ( both the draft and FA, as well as any GM of the past 10 years), yet this is your response. You mentioned GB because they just won a SB.  Then, you randomly mentioned, of all teams, the Houston Texans, a team, with perennially, a swiss cheese D. You should probably watch more of the NFL before agreeing with someone as irrational as Babe.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    at this moment i'm questioning your intelligence and your emotional stability.
    in case you missed it, my comments were about teams i thought that drafted well.  dont expect people to converse with you when your behavior is childish,  immature and disrespectful. ideally others will not respond to you when you behave this way and maybe you will learn to be respectful of others.
    i wish you well.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :      That aside, the other problem with Babe's rationale is that Carimi is not projected to be a starting LT in the pros. He's best suited as a RT, or a guard.      You're correct in saying that Solder is a much better prospect.
    Posted by TexasPat3


    Would moving Vollmer to LT be a reasonable rationale in that light TP?

    Also: Most that I have read on this guy (Carimi) simply says he would only need some technique coaching to play NFL LT.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    lets take this thread and our posts with a bit of moderation. everyone has a point to make here or there that make some sense. there is no need to make things adversarial.

    sports i may have missed a post, but im not sue where the glitzy thing came in. ne england fits bb's personality. i dont care as much about that at all, as long as people who represent my team are generally a decent person.
      i still will point out what i may think are deficiencies. everybody has got them.
    again this is part of sport (ie ideas on how our team can get better).
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : The 90% of NFL fans you refer to would say BB is a great coach, but a cheater.
     
    RESPONSE: I strongly doubt that...90% of football fans aren't stupid, and realize that "spygate" was a bunch of b.s.. Furthermore, 90% of all football fans wish that BB were running their team.  

    When Brady is gone the party is over for BB. He will then be what he has aleways been.
     
    RESPONSE:  If Brady is so important to the team, wouldn't you agree that the #1 need is for the team to have a first rate OL to protect him? Matt Light is a fading, 33 year old LT, and an UFA. He must be replaced. So...BB takes perhaps the best LT prospect available in Nate Solder. But now you appear to be advocating that DE Cameron Jordan should have been the Pats' choice choice at #17, and RT prospect, Gabe Carimi, should have been taken at pick #28.  For the sake of argument, let's say that Carimi would have been available at #28. Would you rather have Jordan and Carimi, or Solder, the 56th overall pick in 2011, and the Saints' #1 pick in 2012?

         Furthermore, I reject your assertion that "the party is over" when Brady leaves. The party may be over when BB leaves.

    A guy who gets to the playoffs once every 7 years.  Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say hee makes it every 5th year Then you will call for his head and act like you knew it all along. But maybe he will again make the luckiest pick in the history of the NFL and find another HOF QB in the 6th round. Don't hold your breat though. Unfortunatly for you, facts don't help your case much, so you have to rely on spin to try to prove your correct.

    RESPONSE: BB is one of, if not the best coach of all-time. If he was able to win with Matt Cassell at QB...he'll find a guy who can do at least an adequate job, taking over for the "Terrific One", when that time comes. He might have that guy right now, in Brian Hoyer, or Ryan Mallett.  
    Posted by BabeParilli
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD :

         Furthermore, I reject your assertion that "the party is over" when Brady leaves. The party may be over when BB leaves.
    Posted by TexasPat3

    The party may not be over until Jonathan Kraft, the younger Kraft, leaves.  A strong organization starts with an owner dedicated to the game.  He hires a good coach and a good scouting organization and first class treatment of players makes that coach look better.  Players hear rumors from their agents of how life can be good with the Patriots and pretty bad at the Hotel, er, with the Raiders.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

         Here's another good article dealing with "grading" the Pats' draft: http://www.examiner.com/new-england-patriots-in-boston/new-england-patriots-2011-nfl-draft-grades
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    RESPONSE: I strongly doubt that...90% of football fans aren't stupid, and realize that "spygate" was a bunch of b.s.. Furthermore, 90% of all football fans wish that BB were running their team.  

    What source do you have that shows 90% of all football fans wish BB was running their team? And what is the worth of a majority of fans opinions anyway? It's not worth as much as an actual fact is it?

    I don't think BB arrogantly giving the finger to the league memo is a bunch of BS. I rather think it is reprehensible behavior. His irresponsible action has put a scarlet letter on our team.
     
    RESPONSE:  If Brady is so important to the team, wouldn't you agree that the #1 need is for the team to have a first rate OL to protect him? Matt Light is a fading, 33 year old LT, and an UFA. He must be replaced. So...BB takes perhaps the best LT prospect available in Nate Solder. But now you appear to be advocating that DE Cameron Jordan should have been the Pats' choice choice at #17, and RT prospect, Gabe Carimi, should have been taken at pick #28.  For the sake of argument, let's say that Carimi would have been available at #28. Would you rather have Jordan and Carimi, or Solder, the 56th overall pick in 2011, and the Saints' #1 pick in 2012?

         Furthermore, I reject your assertion that "the party is over" when Brady leaves. The party may be over when BB leaves.

    I listed the needs for this draft as OLB, OL, DE. CB. So I was aware of the need for protection for Brady.

    You don't think the party will be over when Brady goes because you think the success is due to BB and I have shown that without Brady BB's success has been quite lacking. So, you're wrong there.


    RESPONSE: BB is one of, if not the best coach of all-time. If he was able to win with Matt Cassell at QB...he'll find a guy who can do at least an adequate job, taking over for the "Terrific One", when that time comes. He might have that guy right now, in Brian Hoyer, or Ryan Mallett.  


    He was able to win some ganes with Cassel because the schedule was the easiest in memory. They lost aginst almost every good team they played including getting stomped by the Steelers when with Brady they had pretty much owned them.

    The fact is, a 1-15 Dolphins team the year before went 11-5 against that weak schedule and won the division. By what possible criteria can you estimate BB will do any better than his 1 for 7 record in making the playoffs without Brady?
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD : Or, "you're" correct. Don't come without your homework done and be condescending, Gramps, when you can't use correct grammar. Saying he's a "cheater" means they are jealous. We've been over this.  Using catch words to describe the frustration coming from a Lions fans in Detroit (insert loser fanbase here) has no bearing on facts.   NE has one SB appearance and the best winning% in the NFL since 2007, when the witch hunt was in effect. I don't need to spin this fact. VEry possibly, if Brady does not go down in 2008, NE gets a #1 seed and with a veteran D, essentially the same s 2007's, maybe they go to another SB against Arizona, a team they pasted in the regular season with Matt Cassel. Do the math.  How many teams can walk into a season knowing they'll win 10+ games, minimum?  What, maybe 5 (Pitt, Indy, NE, Philly, etc).    And Pitt missed the playoffs going 8-8 two years ago. You equate this only to Brady with it being a team game?  Do you think your IQ went down every decade since the 1960s? Everything proves SPygate was a witch hunt.  And when/if NE makes another SB run again, or wins a SB, the jealous dumbos who proclaim positioning of a legal scouting camera, ONLY done by NE (laughable considering this is a legal practice), was somehow an advantage, will have proven to be just that. A witch hunt. We get it. Teams are jealous. Any way to try to weaken NE was the goal.  People are angry and jealous in today's society as the middle class disintegrates.  We get it.  Belichick represents success and when sports fans can't channel that into their own teams, they look for someone to blame as an excuse to make themselves feel better. Even before the "spygate" excuse was there, other fans were jealous. They were either in awe in the cap era or jealous.  It just depended how rational the NFL fan was. We see this all the time.  People scan the interwebs for failures of successful people to make themselves feel good. It's called Schadenfreude. Belichick won 11 games while rebuilding a team with a back up QB who hadn't started since 1999 in HIGH SCHOOL.  Now, that player he drafted in 2005 in Round 7, not only garnered him a #34 overall in 2009, but that player is a Pro Bowl QB with two rookie receivers (Moeaki and McCluster) and no flanker opposite Bowe. And no stable O Line.  Not too shabby, right Babe? How is that for facts? Is Bill Walsh "lucky" because he drafted Joe Montana? 
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I will match my grammatical prowess against yours any time. Don't be a punk and cop out by trying to degrade the post because of a hasty bit of typing by a poot typist. I fully understand the use of the contraction "you're".

    Since you obviously make frequent derogatory reference to my age would you also make derogatory reference to me if I were a minority?

    What you don't "get" about spygate is that BB ignoring a dictate from the league to stop that practice was just plain wrong. There is no defense for his action on this. It was stupid and harmful to our team. And making excuses for him in this regard just shows a person to be more a BB fan than a Patriot's fan.

    What you also don't "get" is that not everybody thinks spygate was a big deal because of jealousy.  Some just think it's wrong  to arrogantly ignore league rules even if you think they are not applicable to you.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    If Belichick ignoring a politically correct memo is a "scarlet letter" on "our team", then Halas, Brown, Lombardi, Noll and Walsh never, ever would have lasted in today's NFL. You can bank on it.  Those coaches were as ornery, if not more so, and they certainly wouldn't have adjusted to the silly, pick and choose legislation of Sheriff Rogie Goodell.  I am not even convinced they would have shown up daily at the podium like coaches have to today.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    Again, you just don't "get it". The league sent out a memo saying to specifically stop taping. Any of those coaches you mention would not have put their team in jeopardy by continuing the practice in the face of such an obvious crackdown. What was Goodell supposed to do when BB was caught in direct defiance of the league ultimatum? Nothing?

    Yeah, he should not have slammed the team for BB's blunder. He should have just fined or suspended BB. It was his doing.
     
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    Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Patriots Draft REPORT CARD:
    "Grammatical prowess"?  That's a big goy word, Babe.  You sure you shoud be using that? That's fine if it's "wrong" or a mistake on his part not to clarify what the rule was meant to enforce, but that isn't the discussion.  You said it was "cheating", yet every team films their games and whatever is filmed is filmed, without the NFL ever looking at what teams'  filmed for 30+ years. You specifically brought up the idea that NFL fans, really uneducated or jealous ones, would call BB a cheater.  I agree this occurs, and I explained why it does. Bypassing a portion of a rule or showing you never followed it, along with other teams, not realizing or not caring about it being wrong, is not "cheating".  That's the point, finally admitted to by Goodell after months of his poor handling of the situation. You, taking the media guilt trip bait, with regards to Spygate is your own issue. Or, as predicted, you are really a troll posing as a Pats fan.  I don't see you whining about any previous Pats coaches rolling tape during games for scouting purposes. Were you up in arms in the 1970s when Chuck Fairbanks did it? Or, when Ron Meyer did it in the early 1980s? Did you write letters to Tagliabue or Rozelle demanding scouting with each teams' video coordinators stop? Hmm? Did you? What logic planet are you on? The Yankees "cheat" because there is no salary cap and they can buy every roided out player with spiked stats whom no one else can afford. The Celtics "cheated" because the Garden wasn't air conditioned. The Steelers cheated with steroids and not putting a tarp over the turf at Three Rivers. We could go on and on and on and on, but at the end of the day, these represent a series of excuses.  You're a very, very strange Pats fan or a troll. The better question should be:  Why did Roger Goodell decide to alter the way a standing rule of 30+ years be perceived in 2006?  Just who or what made him send the memo?  Pretty interesting question considering his own personnel didn't uphold this so called rule when they coud have, not only with NE for 7 years, but for any road team not in a specific location. Was it really just Rogie playing politically correct lawyer?  Mind you, this was AFTER NE just won 3 SBs in 4 years and essentially mastered the art of the salary cap with a 53 man roster. Hmmmmmm.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I won't jump on you for "goy". I'll leave the petty punk stuff to you.


    I never said it was "cheating". I said others call it "cheating".

    Your theory makes no sense that Goodell was out to get the Pats when all BB had to do to prevent such a devious plot was to stop taping after the memo came out that specifically said stop doing that.

    You're actualy the strange Pat's fan, though you have a ton of company.  I don't make excuses and try to justify bad actions by persons who hurt our team. That's because the team is what is important to me, not a coach that I put on a pedestal.



     
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