Patriots' Recent "Success" Due To Weak Division?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Patriots' Recent "Success" Due To Weak Division?

    Everyone knows that making it to the Superbowl is pretty tough as it is.  BB obviously has to put a new team together every year.  Part of the equation to making it deep into the playoffs (SB) is the regular season record. The AFC East is not really a powerhouse - some might say its actually a weak division. 

    Which leads to the question - how much of the regular season success is due to playing in a weak division? And, how does that affect the Patriots' playoff success? 

    Are the Patriots an over-rated team?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    The Pats brass cannot be held accountable for other teams in the division being weaker or simply worse. Also the Pats get every team's best game. If one of the teams were to go 4-12 their season is markedly better if two of those wins are against the Pats. I still put AFC East and West as weaker divisions, but clearly some teams are making strides to improve (Phins and AFC West KC FA acquisitions). You play the team in front of you and the schedule you're given; if that team is weaker than most then it is not the fault of Pats brass; if anything it is the fault of GMs and coaching staffs within the division.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    Better to check out strength of schedule percentages to answer your question rather than divisional weakness or strength

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    I don't think it was weak during the few seasons the Jests were contending. Now that reality caught up with them, it's a middle of the pack division. 

    But being serious ... there are much weaker divisions ... and NE's "success" isn't about that. They didn't play divisional opponents to get through the playoffs each season. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    With respect to the regular season, a team can only beat who it plays and the relative strength of the AFC East is only part of the equation.  Year in, year out this football team wins the division and, with few exceptions, goes deep into the playoffs.  5 Super Bowl appearances and 3 Lombardis in the past 12 years is better than any other team in the league during that span.  I can't see all of this being a consequence of a 'weak' division.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    With respect to the regular season, a team can only beat who it plays and the relative strength of the AFC East is only part of the equation.  Year in, year out this football team wins the division and, with few exceptions, goes deep into the playoffs.  5 Super Bowl appearances and 3 Lombardis in the past 12 years is better than any other team in the league during that span.  I can't see all of this being a consequence of a 'weak' division.



    Exactly ... if it were just a weak division they would be plagued with short playoff runs. This team goes deep into the playoffs often.

    Now if you want to talk about how they match up with dominant defensive lines or how their defense has been a leaky patch project, or how they have problems staying healthy down the stretch  ... that would eplain a little bit more than one offs about their div opponents. 

    This team can embarrass some playoff teams ... but two or three playoff teams will continue to take it out on them until they address personnel issues at DE/DT, SS, interior OL, and WR.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    Dumb.

    They've been good since 2001 but are only good recently due to strength of schedule.  

    There are no weak divisions in the NFL, only weak schedules, and those cannot usually be determined until after the season is over because there are always surprise teams.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    With respect to the regular season, a team can only beat who it plays and the relative strength of the AFC East is only part of the equation.  Year in, year out this football team wins the division and, with few exceptions, goes deep into the playoffs.  5 Super Bowl appearances and 3 Lombardis in the past 12 years is better than any other team in the league during that span.  I can't see all of this being a consequence of a 'weak' division.

     



    Exactly ... if it were just a weak division they would be plagued with short playoff runs. This team goes deep into the playoffs often.

     

    Now if you want to talk about how they match up with dominant defensive lines or how their defense has been a leaky patch project, or how they have problems staying healthy down the stretch  ... that would eplain a little bit more than one offs about their div opponents. 

    This team can embarrass some playoff teams ... but two or three playoff teams will continue to take it out on them until they address personnel issues at DE/DT, SS, interior OL, and WR.



    Agree.  Time will tell if they've made progress in these areas but I am cautiously optimistic in  that regard.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    Just another way for someone to minimize the successes the Patriots have enjoyed this last 10 - 12 years. These folks who profer such statements must actually think the AFC East is pusposely weak for the Pats. As JohnHannah sez..  the Pats CAN'T control how the other teams in the division build their teams.  The Pats play who is on their schedule, period!  Do we hear similar statements about other teams in the league that have enjoyed sustained success?  Is that crickets I hear?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    How would the Patriot's fare if they were in the NFC east, AFC North, or NFC North? A poorer record, for example, might mean a lower seeding or being out of the playoffs.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Better to check out strength of schedule percentages to answer your question rather than divisional weakness or strength



    not necessarily.  If they win out their division, they make it into the playoffs regardless of regular season record - plus, get the 4th seed, at worst

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    With respect to the regular season, a team can only beat who it plays and the relative strength of the AFC East is only part of the equation.  Year in, year out this football team wins the division and, with few exceptions, goes deep into the playoffs.  5 Super Bowl appearances and 3 Lombardis in the past 12 years is better than any other team in the league during that span.  I can't see all of this being a consequence of a 'weak' division.

     



    Exactly ... if it were just a weak division they would be plagued with short playoff runs. This team goes deep into the playoffs often.

     

    Now if you want to talk about how they match up with dominant defensive lines or how their defense has been a leaky patch project, or how they have problems staying healthy down the stretch  ... that would eplain a little bit more than one offs about their div opponents. 

    This team can embarrass some playoff teams ... but two or three playoff teams will continue to take it out on them until they address personnel issues at DE/DT, SS, interior OL, and WR.



    I wasn't saying that the Patriots are at fault for playing in a weak division. I am saying that it's easier to end up with a better regular season record if one is more likely than not able to pad a record with 6  wins by beating signficantly weaker teams in one's division.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Dumb.

    They've been good since 2001 but are only good recently due to strength of schedule.  

    There are no weak divisions in the NFL, only weak schedules, and those cannot usually be determined until after the season is over because there are always surprise teams.



    It appears that the other teams in the AFC East is worse than those teams in the AFC North, NFC North?

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    anonymis...

    AFC North only because of Pit and Bal?  For years those two ruled that division with Cin and Cle barely there!

    NFC East?  True, the Giants seem to be kryptonite to the Pats, only for that team?

    NFC North?  What giant has come out of that division lately other than GB?

    Each division has that "one" team.  Pats are the one for the AFC East.

    Let's go the other way.. how would the Pats have done in the AFC West?

    Seems the Pats have done quite well outside of their division over the years.  You'd have a point if the Pats struggled whenever playing outside of their division.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Dumb.

    They've been good since 2001 but are only good recently due to strength of schedule.  

    There are no weak divisions in the NFL, only weak schedules, and those cannot usually be determined until after the season is over because there are always surprise teams.



    You don't believe the Patriots benefit from playing the likes of the Jets, Fins, and Bills - considering how many fans make fun of those teams' for being bad.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    anonymis...

    AFC North only because of Pit and Bal?  For years those two ruled that division with Cin and Cle barely there!

    NFC East?  True, the Giants seem to be kryptonite to the Pats, only for that team?

    NFC North?  What giant has come out of that division lately other than GB?

    Each division has that "one" team.  Pats are the one for the AFC East.

    Let's go the other way.. how would the Pats have done in the AFC West?

    Seems the Pats have done quite well outside of their division over the years.  You'd have a point if the Pats struggled whenever playing outside of their division.



    they'd prolly have a similar regular season record if they did; which is my point?  Let's say they did play in a "tougher" division.....an addition 3 losses might mean not making the playoffs.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    Just another way for someone to minimize the successes the Patriots have enjoyed this last 10 - 12 years. These folks who profer such statements must actually think the AFC East is pusposely weak for the Pats. As JohnHannah sez..  the Pats CAN'T control how the other teams in the division build their teams.  The Pats play who is on their schedule, period!  Do we hear similar statements about other teams in the league that have enjoyed sustained success?  Is that crickets I hear?



    How so? I think that what the Patriots accomplished from 2000-2004 was pretty darn good - and the Patriots almost made history in 2007.  Noone ever said the Patriots controlled the other teams in their division.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    This has to be a slow off-season when we are seeing posts lamenting whether or not the Pats are successful due to the division they are in.  Why can't we simply enjoy what they have done in the past instead of making attempts to, in some ways, trash it?  Would we see this for any other team?  I'd say NO since this appears to be more of a "Patriots" thing than anything else!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    This has to be a slow off-season when we are seeing posts lamenting whether or not the Pats are successful due to the division they are in.  Why can't we simply enjoy what they have done in the past instead of making attempts to, in some ways, trash it?  Would we see this for any other team?  I'd say NO since this appears to be more of a "Patriots" thing than anything else!



    Dude, you're such a drama queen. Where did I trash the team?

    So, you're saying that Bills, Jets, and Fins are awesome teams, right?  lol

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    You don't believe the Patriots benefit from playing the likes of the Jets, Fins, and Bills - considering how many fans make fun of those teams' for being bad

     



    No, at the beginning of the year every team is at full strength and the level of parity in the NFL creates a situation where the lower tier team's talent levels aren't that different from the best teams; it's the details, coaching and health that separate the best from the worst.  Part of the reason the other teams in the AFC East take the beating they do, is because they have the best team in the NFL in their division.  

    There is talent on every NFL roster, how it executes is more important in determining where they end the season. The position of the bye in your schedule is a bigger factor in determining the strength of schedule.  If a team has a non conference opponent they realize that the game has less importance than a division or conference game, not to say they play less hard but it is in the back of their skull.  

    I hate when people mention strength of schedule as a measure of success, winning in the NFL isn't easy and it does a disservice to the teams that win every year; it's not luck or favor by the schedule makers... luck doesn't carry over the course of a decade and winning makes winning again more difficult, not easier.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    You don't believe the Patriots benefit from playing the likes of the Jets, Fins, and Bills - considering how many fans make fun of those teams' for being bad

     



    No, at the beginning of the year every team is at full strength and the level of parity in the NFL creates a situation where the lower tier team's talent levels aren't that different than the best teams; its the details, coaching and health that seperate the best from the worst.  Part of the reason the other teams in the AFC East take the beating the do is because they have the best team in the NFL in their division.  

     

    There is talent on every NFL roster, how it executes is more important in determining where they end the season. The position of the bye in your schedule is a bigger factor in determining the strength of schedule.  If a team has a non conference opponent they realize that the game has less importance than a division or conference game, not to say they play less hard but it is in the backs of their skull.  I hate when people mention strength of schedule as a measure of success, winning in the NFL isn't easy and it does a disservice to the teams that win every year; it's not luck or favor by the schedule makers... luck doesn't carry over the course of a decade and winning makes winning again more difficult, not easier.



    Sure, there's talent on every NFL roster - some more than others...lol Laughing

    Again, I would say that the Patriots do benefit - because they can pad their record with - lets say 5 wins vs. splitting division games with their division rivals.  Seeding certainly depends on regular season record - and at worst, would be seeded 4th for winning their division regardless of record.

    And, as far as winning any SB....I'd say there is a little luck too.

     

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