Patriots' Recent "Success" Due To Weak Division?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    How would the Patriot's fare if they were in the NFC east, AFC North, or NFC North? A poorer record, for example, might mean a lower seeding or being out of the playoffs.



    I would sugest that the AFC East is viewed as weak only because the Pats are in it. I would also sugest that if the Pats were in a different division, then that division would be deemed to be weak. I would not suggest that the Pats would lose any additional games just due to a division change as the statistics don't support the premise the Pats would lose any additional games. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    Too bad for the AFCE then. If you don't like it then stop us. What about the other 10 games though?  At least we don't win the division at 9-7 like in the NFC. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent 165-141

    These are the Head-to-Head record

    Vs Cardinals 6-7       Vs Bengals 14-8       Vs Texans 3-1           Vs Saints 8-4

    Vs Falcons 6-6          Vs Browns 9-12        Vs Colts 45-28          Vs Giants 5-4

    Vs Ravens 6-1          Vs Dallas 4-7            Vs  Jaguars 6-0          Vs Jets 53-51

    Vs Bills 63-41           Vs Broncos 18-25      Vs Chiefs 13-16         Vs Raiders 15-14

    Vs Panthers 2-2       Vs Lions 6-4              Vs Dolphins 43-49      Vs Eagles 5-6

    Vs Bears 8-3            Vs Packers 5-4          Vs Vikings 7-4             Vs Steelers 8-14

     

    Vs Chargers 20-14   Vs Titans 22-15

    Vs 49ers 4-8             Redskins 3-6

    Vs Seahawks 8-8

    Vs Rams 6-5

    Vs Bucs 5-2

     

    Look at their records within the division  they're a combined 165-141..The only team that they have a better winning % against are the Bills...So to say they play in a weak division is very misleading..

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    How would the Patriot's fare if they were in the NFC east, AFC North, or NFC North? A poorer record, for example, might mean a lower seeding or being out of the playoffs.

     



    I would sugest that the AFC East is viewed as weak only because the Pats are in it. I would also sugest that if the Pats were in a different division, then that division would be deemed to be weak. I would not suggest that the Pats would lose any additional games just due to a division change as the statistics don't support the premise the Pats would lose any additional games. 

     



    That's definitely a posibility too. On the other hand, our division might just be weak - as so many fans that post how terrible the bills, jets, and dolphins are.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to leonardo0110's comment:

    These are the Head-to-Head record

    Vs Cardinals 6-7       Vs Bengals 14-8       Vs Texans 3-1           Vs Saints 8-4

    Vs Falcons 6-6          Vs Browns 9-12        Vs Colts 45-28          Vs Giants 5-4

    Vs Ravens 6-1          Vs Dallas 4-7            Vs  Jaguars 6-0          Vs Jets 53-51

    Vs Bills 63-41           Vs Broncos 18-25      Vs Chiefs 13-16         Vs Raiders 15-14

    Vs Panthers 2-2       Vs Lions 6-4              Vs Dolphins 43-49      Vs Eagles 5-6

    Vs Bears 8-3            Vs Packers 5-4          Vs Vikings 7-4             Vs Steelers 8-14

     

    Vs Chargers 20-14   Vs Titans 22-15

    Vs 49ers 4-8             Redskins 3-6

    Vs Seahawks 8-8

    Vs Rams 6-5

    Vs Bucs 5-2

     

    Look at their records within the division  they're a combined 165-141..The only team that they have a better winning % against are the Bills...So to say they play in a weak division is very misleading..



    and how are the head to head records from 2005-2012?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    In response to leonardo0110's comment:

     

    These are the Head-to-Head record

    Vs Cardinals 6-7       Vs Bengals 14-8       Vs Texans 3-1           Vs Saints 8-4

    Vs Falcons 6-6          Vs Browns 9-12        Vs Colts 45-28          Vs Giants 5-4

    Vs Ravens 6-1          Vs Dallas 4-7            Vs  Jaguars 6-0          Vs Jets 53-51

    Vs Bills 63-41           Vs Broncos 18-25      Vs Chiefs 13-16         Vs Raiders 15-14

    Vs Panthers 2-2       Vs Lions 6-4              Vs Dolphins 43-49      Vs Eagles 5-6

    Vs Bears 8-3            Vs Packers 5-4          Vs Vikings 7-4             Vs Steelers 8-14

     

    Vs Chargers 20-14   Vs Titans 22-15

    Vs 49ers 4-8             Redskins 3-6

    Vs Seahawks 8-8

    Vs Rams 6-5

    Vs Bucs 5-2

     

    Look at their records within the division  they're a combined 165-141..The only team that they have a better winning % against are the Bills...So to say they play in a weak division is very misleading..

     



    and how are the head to head records from 2005-2012?

     



     Why choose a specific timeframe? This is also misleading..Is not the Patriots fault that they have gotten better over the years and the competition hasn't done anything to better themselves..The question you should ask yourself is...Does the Bills,Dolphins, and Jets consider their division weak or strong? That is the same question every weak team should ask...why is my division so tough and hard to win...and the answer is because usually there's that ONE team that is Better than the rest...

    This is their H2H since 2005

    Vs Jets  13-5

    Vs Dolphins 12-4

     

    Vs Bills 15-1

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    Winning an AFC game is more important to Belichick, winning an AFCEast game even more so...

    The Dolphins have had one the stronger, tougher defenses in the NFL over the past few years, the Jets did as well, until most recently.  The Dolphins are on the upswing, they have the right coach and are drafting and team building extremely well.  No team in the NFL rolls over and catching a team no matter how bad coming off a loss is tougher than playing a good team on a winning streak, there are no easy wins in the NFL... except maybe the Jaguars. lol

    "Any given Sunday..."

    That's not just a general maxim, that's a reality.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Winning an AFC game is more important to Belichick, winning an AFCEast game even more so...

    The Dolphins have had one the stronger, tougher defenses in the NFL over the past few years, the Jets did as well, until most recently.  The Dolphins are on the upswing, they have the right coach and are drafting and team building extremely well.  No team in the NFL rolls over and catching a team no matter how bad coming off a loss is tougher than playing a good team on a winning streak, there are no easy wins in the NFL... except maybe the Jaguars. lol

    "Any given Sunday..."

    That's not just a general maxim, that's a reality.

     



    I agree, and the Pats have caught some teams playing their best football on those days. Case in point the Cards loss, the Browns loss, the Bills shoot out.

    I also agree that teams "get up" to play the Pats...no game is easy in any given week...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    This has to be a slow off-season when we are seeing posts lamenting whether or not the Pats are successful due to the division they are in.  Why can't we simply enjoy what they have done in the past instead of making attempts to, in some ways, trash it?  Would we see this for any other team?  I'd say NO since this appears to be more of a "Patriots" thing than anything else!

    Dude, you're such a drama queen. Where did I trash the team?

    So, you're saying that Bills, Jets, and Fins are awesome teams, right?  lol



    anonymis - term was used loosely.  As I said, it really has to be a slow off-season to come up with this posting to generate discussion.  Questioning the Patriots legitimacy for success due to the division they are in?  Look who is creating "drama"!!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    Here is the Pats' regular season records since 2001, broken down by opponent.  I think it's pretty obvious that they've been dominant regardless of who they've played.

    Total record: 146-46 (.760 win %)

     

    vs. AFCE: 57-15 (.792)

    vs. BUF: 22-2 (.917 WOW)

    vs. MIA: 17-7 (.708)

    vs. NYJ: 18-6 (.750)

     

    vs. non-AFCE: 89-31 (.742)

    vs. NFC: 39-9 (.813)

    vs. common AFC opponents: 35-13 (.729) (AFC division all other AFCE teams play)

    vs. non-common AFC: 15-9 (.625) (2 opponents per year based on previous year's finish; generally a top-tier first place team)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    Tom Brady and Bill Belichick have put 16 coaches and 12 GMs in our division out of work over the last 10 years - I think our weak division has more to do with those two than anything else.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    Here is the Pats' regular season records since 2001, broken down by opponent.  I think it's pretty obvious that they've been dominant regardless of who they've played.

    Total record: 146-46 (.760 win %)

     

    vs. AFCE: 57-15 (.792)

    vs. BUF: 22-2 (.917 WOW)

    vs. MIA: 17-7 (.708)

    vs. NYJ: 18-6 (.750)

     

    vs. non-AFCE: 89-31 (.742)

    vs. NFC: 39-9 (.813)

    vs. common AFC opponents: 35-13 (.729) (AFC division all other AFCE teams play)

    vs. non-common AFC: 15-9 (.625) (2 opponents per year based on previous year's finish; generally a top-tier first place team)




     

    In short, the Patriots play as well outside their divsion as inside their division, so any suggestion they benefit from playing in a weak division is one more myth.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    Here is the Pats' regular season records since 2001, broken down by opponent.  I think it's pretty obvious that they've been dominant regardless of who they've played.

    Total record: 146-46 (.760 win %)

     

    vs. AFCE: 57-15 (.792)

    vs. BUF: 22-2 (.917 WOW)

    vs. MIA: 17-7 (.708)

    vs. NYJ: 18-6 (.750)

     

    vs. non-AFCE: 89-31 (.742)

    vs. NFC: 39-9 (.813)

    vs. common AFC opponents: 35-13 (.729) (AFC division all other AFCE teams play)

    vs. non-common AFC: 15-9 (.625) (2 opponents per year based on previous year's finish; generally a top-tier first place team)

     



    Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.

     

    John Adams

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    Here is the Pats' regular season records since 2001, broken down by opponent.  I think it's pretty obvious that they've been dominant regardless of who they've played.

    Total record: 146-46 (.760 win %)

     

    vs. AFCE: 57-15 (.792)

    vs. BUF: 22-2 (.917 WOW)

    vs. MIA: 17-7 (.708)

    vs. NYJ: 18-6 (.750)

     

    vs. non-AFCE: 89-31 (.742)

    vs. NFC: 39-9 (.813)

    vs. common AFC opponents: 35-13 (.729) (AFC division all other AFCE teams play)

    vs. non-common AFC: 15-9 (.625) (2 opponents per year based on previous year's finish; generally a top-tier first place team)

     


    The Pats are a huge part why it is considered a weak division. Most years these teams get 2 losses and occassionally a split built into their schedule due to the PAtriots. Turns 8-8 into 6-10 or worse since teams that have nothing to play for are certainly going to have a harder time getting up.

     

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    Here is the Pats' regular season records since 2001, broken down by opponent.  I think it's pretty obvious that they've been dominant regardless of who they've played.

    Total record: 146-46 (.760 win %)

     

    vs. AFCE: 57-15 (.792)

    vs. BUF: 22-2 (.917 WOW)

    vs. MIA: 17-7 (.708)

    vs. NYJ: 18-6 (.750)

     

    vs. non-AFCE: 89-31 (.742)

    vs. NFC: 39-9 (.813)

    vs. common AFC opponents: 35-13 (.729) (AFC division all other AFCE teams play)

    vs. non-common AFC: 15-9 (.625) (2 opponents per year based on previous year's finish; generally a top-tier first place team)




    Trying to confuse anonymous with the facts?

    Clearly the Pats have an outstanding... league dominating record OUTSIDE their division. So much for half thought through ideas.

     

    If the Pats were in the NFC East I do not think the Giants make the playoff in any year including their SB years.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to leonardo0110's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    In response to leonardo0110's comment:

     

    These are the Head-to-Head record

    Vs Cardinals 6-7       Vs Bengals 14-8       Vs Texans 3-1           Vs Saints 8-4

    Vs Falcons 6-6          Vs Browns 9-12        Vs Colts 45-28          Vs Giants 5-4

    Vs Ravens 6-1          Vs Dallas 4-7            Vs  Jaguars 6-0          Vs Jets 53-51

    Vs Bills 63-41           Vs Broncos 18-25      Vs Chiefs 13-16         Vs Raiders 15-14

    Vs Panthers 2-2       Vs Lions 6-4              Vs Dolphins 43-49      Vs Eagles 5-6

    Vs Bears 8-3            Vs Packers 5-4          Vs Vikings 7-4             Vs Steelers 8-14

     

    Vs Chargers 20-14   Vs Titans 22-15

    Vs 49ers 4-8             Redskins 3-6

    Vs Seahawks 8-8

    Vs Rams 6-5

    Vs Bucs 5-2

     

    Look at their records within the division  they're a combined 165-141..The only team that they have a better winning % against are the Bills...So to say they play in a weak division is very misleading..

     



    and how are the head to head records from 2005-2012?

     

     



     Why choose a specific timeframe? This is also misleading..Is not the Patriots fault that they have gotten better over the years and the competition hasn't done anything to better themselves..The question you should ask yourself is...Does the Bills,Dolphins, and Jets consider their division weak or strong? That is the same question every weak team should ask...why is my division so tough and hard to win...and the answer is because usually there's that ONE team that is Better than the rest...

     

    This is their H2H since 2005

    Vs Jets  13-5

    Vs Dolphins 12-4

     

    Vs Bills 15-1



    because teams change over time.  It wasn't really that long ago, when the Patriots were a below average team.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to patsbandwagonsince76's comment:

     

    The Pats are a huge part why it is considered a weak division. Most years these teams get 2 losses and occassionally a split built into their schedule due to the PAtriots. Turns 8-8 into 6-10 or worse since teams that have nothing to play for are certainly going to have a harder time getting up.

     

     

     



    I can see how that might be the case. But more recently, it's just as plausible that their regular season record is what it is because the other teams are weak.  Seriously, fans in this forum say how terrible the bills, jets, and dolphins are.  So, if your opinion is the case - then the other teams in our division are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    anonymis....  accept the fact the Pats ARE THAT GOOD and they are the cause for a bad division, not that a bad division is the cause of a VERY GOOD Pats team.  Patsbandwagon stats prove that out.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    This has to be a slow off-season when we are seeing posts lamenting whether or not the Pats are successful due to the division they are in.  Why can't we simply enjoy what they have done in the past instead of making attempts to, in some ways, trash it?  Would we see this for any other team?  I'd say NO since this appears to be more of a "Patriots" thing than anything else!

    Dude, you're such a drama queen. Where did I trash the team?

    So, you're saying that Bills, Jets, and Fins are awesome teams, right?  lol

     



    anonymis - term was used loosely.  As I said, it really has to be a slow off-season to come up with this posting to generate discussion.  Questioning the Patriots legitimacy for success due to the division they are in?  Look who is creating "drama"!!

     



    No, I'm afraid not AGC.  I believe your interpretation of what was written was akin to trashing the team or dismissing their accomplishments. I have done no such thing. I was merely saying that the Patriots may be benefitting from playing in a possibly weak division.  I didn't say it was anyones fault. The Bills, Fins, and Jets are who they are. 

    So, if the Pats get seeded higher because of it...then that's fine.  But if do benefit...and end up with a better regular season record because of it - maybe the Patriots aren't as good as their regular season says they are.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    Here is the Pats' regular season records since 2001, broken down by opponent.  I think it's pretty obvious that they've been dominant regardless of who they've played.

    Total record: 146-46 (.760 win %)

     

    vs. AFCE: 57-15 (.792)

    vs. BUF: 22-2 (.917 WOW)

    vs. MIA: 17-7 (.708)

    vs. NYJ: 18-6 (.750)

     

    vs. non-AFCE: 89-31 (.742)

    vs. NFC: 39-9 (.813)

    vs. common AFC opponents: 35-13 (.729) (AFC division all other AFCE teams play)

    vs. non-common AFC: 15-9 (.625) (2 opponents per year based on previous year's finish; generally a top-tier first place team)



    Good info. This is better than looking at head to head for their entire history.  I was just wondering what the record would be like when playing head to head against the divisions that are considered to be stronger - because as someone else posted, there are other divisions that may be weaker than AFC East.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    anonymis....  accept the fact the Pats ARE THAT GOOD and they are the cause for a bad division, not that a bad division is the cause of a VERY GOOD Pats team.  Patsbandwagon stats prove that out.



    Where did I say that the Patriots weren't good?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to patsbandwagonsince76's comment:

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    Here is the Pats' regular season records since 2001, broken down by opponent.  I think it's pretty obvious that they've been dominant regardless of who they've played.

    Total record: 146-46 (.760 win %)

     

    vs. AFCE: 57-15 (.792)

    vs. BUF: 22-2 (.917 WOW)

    vs. MIA: 17-7 (.708)

    vs. NYJ: 18-6 (.750)

     

    vs. non-AFCE: 89-31 (.742)

    vs. NFC: 39-9 (.813)

    vs. common AFC opponents: 35-13 (.729) (AFC division all other AFCE teams play)

    vs. non-common AFC: 15-9 (.625) (2 opponents per year based on previous year's finish; generally a top-tier first place team)

     


    The Pats are a huge part why it is considered a weak division. Most years these teams get 2 losses and occassionally a split built into their schedule due to the PAtriots. Turns 8-8 into 6-10 or worse since teams that have nothing to play for are certainly going to have a harder time getting up.

     

     

     



    by any chance, do you have the same breakdown from 2000-2004, and from 2005-2012. I'm just curious. Good info.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to anonymis' comment:


    by any chance, do you have the same breakdown from 2000-2004, and from 2005-2012. I'm just curious. Good info.



    Let's see if this formats correctly.  If you notice a discrepancy from my earlier numbers, it's because I had forgotten that 2001 was the last year under the previous alignment; I've therefore counted the 2-0 vs. Indy as "common" AFC opponent, and the 1-2 vs. Cin/SD/Den as "uncommon", and corrected their NFC record to 4-1.

    '01-'04                  '05-'12
    48-16 (.750)     Total    98-30 (.766)
     17-7 (.708)     AFCE     40-8  (.833)
      7-1 (.875)      BUF     15-1  (.938)
      5-3 (.625)      MIA     12-4  (.750)
      5-3 (.625)      NYJ     13-3  (.813)
     
     31-9 (.775)   non-AFCE   58-22 (.725)
     14-3 (.824)      NFC     26-6  (.813)
     12-2 (.833)  common AFC  22-10 (.688)
      5-4 (.555) uncommon AFC 10-6  (.625)

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Patriots' Recent

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     


    by any chance, do you have the same breakdown from 2000-2004, and from 2005-2012. I'm just curious. Good info.

     



    Let's see if this formats correctly.  If you notice a discrepancy from my earlier numbers, it's because I had forgotten that 2001 was the last year under the previous alignment; I've therefore counted the 2-0 vs. Indy as "common" AFC opponent, and the 1-2 vs. Cin/SD/Den as "uncommon", and corrected their NFC record to 4-1.

     

    '01-'04                  '05-'12
    48-16 (.750)     Total    98-30 (.766)
     17-7 (.708)     AFCE     40-8  (.833)
      7-1 (.875)      BUF     15-1  (.938)
      5-3 (.625)      MIA     12-4  (.750)
      5-3 (.625)      NYJ     13-3  (.813)
     
     31-9 (.775)   non-AFCE   58-22 (.725)
     14-3 (.824)      NFC     26-6  (.813)
     12-2 (.833)  common AFC  22-10 (.688)
      5-4 (.555) uncommon AFC 10-6  (.625)

     



    So, would it be fair to say that the Patriots did better in their own division AFTER their superbowl years? And, again, I'm not saying it's anyones fault.  It is what it is - and the Patriots still have to play the games. But is their division dominance due to them being that good - or because the dolphins, bills, and jets are just that bad?

     

    If we concede that "all teams are equal" and "all teams are good" - then I guess one could conclude that they really are that good.  If the Patriots division rivals stink, then certainly they are benefitting from the situation. But both scenarios can't be true at the same time.....

     

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