Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

    In Response to Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...:
    They were in a SB in 2007. Listen to yourself. That was 4 seasons ago and weren't runinng the table with Matt Cassel in 2008. 90% of NFL fanbases would think you are spoiled little girl, which apparently you are. "7 years of 'failure'.." I hope you don't have kids, because I feel sorry for them when they bring home those report cards.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    As a die hard Pats fan since 1976, I truly appreciate that this team has been in the mix just about every year since 2001.  When you look at some of the teams that have been at or near the top during this span, only to flame out after a couple of years (St. Louis, Carolina, Denver), you have to give props to this team.

    But... the current team seems flawed, especially on defense.  This year and last, I have absolutely zero confidence in this defense on 3rd and anything 15 yards and under.  I  thought that with the signings of Haynesworth, Carter and Ellis, things would change, that the Pats would finally have a semblance or a pass rush, and this would take some pressure off the secondary.  Instead, there's basically no pass rush (most of this teams' sacks look like coverage sacks).  It drives me crazy that just about every team the Patriots play seem to be able to dial up a pass rush and generate decent pressure (against the vaunted Pats O-line) on Brady, while the opposing team's QB can just sit back and survey the field on what seems like 95% of the plays.  And apart from McCourty's sophomore slump, from a talent perspective, this year's secondary looks much worse that last year's (which was not good). 

    I know that you're critcal of Brady, but this defense puts a lot of pressure against Brady and the rest of the offense.  When I watched Pittsburgh's first offensive series last week, it looked like Pittsburgh would be able to go between the 20's at will on this defense, which is what happened all day. So Brady and the offense know that if they don't score, they aren't going to see the ball again for half a quarter.  At some point, "bend but not break" becomes a recipe for disaster.  I think this offense is plenty good enough to go deep in the playoffs, but this doesn't look anything like a championship caliber defense to me.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mighty2011. Show mighty2011's posts

    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

    Last time I checked you don't get points for converting a third down.  All that matters is keeping the other team out of the endzone.  The Pats D has been pretty good at that this season.  
     
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    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

    At what point does someone look at the coach? Does he have anything to do with their lack of success the last four years? By success I mean playoff victories, although they measure themselves by Super Bowl victories. In that case, how about seven years of failure. The one constant is BB. He is a great coach, but maybe they need a change? They meaning the players.
     
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    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

    In Response to Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...:
    Overall combination of coaching, scheme and talent (or lack thereof).  In no particular order, the d can't generate consistent pressure, it can't cover, and CAN'T tackle at all.  I'm so sick of seeing guys try to tackle by just putting a shoulder down and hoping for the best, only to see the opposing player bounce off and go for another 5 yards.  This is FUNDAMENTAL football, taught at the Pop Warner level, and this is one of the poorest tackling teams I've ever seen...  Not playing fundamental football comes down to coaching, and by mid-season, issues like this should be worked out.  It's not... is this coaching or talent or both? When extra blitzers are put in the mix, it's rarely successful due to their lack of speed and lack of edge rush speed...  and there are real problems when the guy ranked second on the team in interceptions is a 350+ lb. nose tackle. Teams just aren't afraid of this D on 3rd down, because they know the team doesn't cover or tackle well...  nobody wraps up, so it's easy to make up extra yardage. This certainly doesn't exonerate the offense and O'Brien from 3 straight dog games... they've got their issues as well... no balance, giving up on the run too soon, opting for spread offense, questionable personnel decisions...  People can say yards mean nothing as long as teams aren't scoring on us...  I beg to differ...  the more yards teams run up on us, the longer Brady is NOT on the field, and I think he's at his best when he's on the field and in rhythm...  the longer he's off the field, the more out of sync he seems. The bottom line is that teams just don't fear this D anymore...  If I were an offensive coordinator, I'd pass 60 times against this D until they prove they can stop it or at least slow it down... so far they have not.
    Posted by manowar333


    .............BRAVO!!!!!!

    .....LOOOOOOOOOONNNG ago when this chat room turned into a FORUM....I wondered aloud whether or not BB had started to suffer form the Mike Shanahan syndrome...IE... I can do it all!!! We survived the hits of Weis, Crennell and the early defections because of the seasoned vets we had on the field. Vrabel, Harrison, Ty Law, Mt Washington.........these guys didn't need to be "coached up" so the departure of certain assistant coaches didn't seem to affect the play on the field. What it did effect was the consciousness of BB. The more he succeeded without Weis, Crennell etc, the more he believed that he could groom "anyone" into an NFL coach.... Oops!!!
    His coaching tree has produced sub-par fruit........
    Flash forward to Shanahan's less than gracious exit from Denver......Really?? The man who brought the city its 1st SB Trophy.....never!!!! Examine the demise after Elway...
    ....Now to the present. We are stuck with a team with no leaders on D besides the D line. Add to the mix a coaching staff that well...........sucks and you have a recipe for..well what we have. We still have enough raw talent and Brady to win 10 plus games a year but we have been surpassed by the "Elite" teams in terms of overall coaching "On and "off" the field.

    It's the NFL so anything can still happen, but I'd bet with my wallet instead of my heart the rest of this season.......
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

    In Response to Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...:
    Last time I checked you don't get points for converting a third down.  All that matters is keeping the other team out of the endzone.  The Pats D has been pretty good at that this season.  
    Posted by mighty2011



    I disagree.  The inablility to stop a team third and long keeps the defense on the field too much, gives our Offense no time and tires out the defense to the point of not being able to stop scores later.  Pressure on the QB, Dbacks coverage, and tackling are all issues.  All need fixing.  But for sure, TACKLING must be fixed first.  Too many short catches or runs that go for first downs by running through a tackler.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...


    I said it once and I'll say it again. We have holes on both sides..the Offense and Defense. On the Defense, those holes are a bit more glaring, and with the lack of capable coaching, those holes are not easy to cover up or coach up.

    What's funny is I actually liked Leatherhelmet's suggestion of purposely going offsides when it is anything more than 3 and 8 so we can bring it back to 3. For whatever reason (being sarcastic..it's the front 7) that Pats Defense (like the offense) plays a better short ball than long ball. When we can keep the action in front of us a few yards at a time, it's hard to move against this defense. When opposingn offenses spread us out, things get instantly worse. I think this is why they play fairly well in short down distances and near the goal line. They get a chance to bunch up, and pack it all in. In those situations, your strength which is the front 7 gets to do its job.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel like this team, as last year's, is hanging together with some chewing gum and duct tape. it doesn't take much to unravel it, and once it does unravel, it's all over. I'm not sure they are built to withstand the post season if they get there.

    Again, the problems are vast. But I'll start with fingering BB and the lack of coaching talent he has assembled. It then goes to poor drafting on teh defensive side of the ball causing a big talent gap in teh secondary, and lack of any medium/long game on the offensive side of the ball.
    I don't think they are too far off, but it clearly feels like the rebuilding effort still has some time to work itself out. I just hope we can squeeze it together to maximize TB 1-2 years.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

    In Response to Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...:
    Its the lack of a CONSISTENT pass rush. Yea guys like carter and anderson have played fairly well, but think of it this way. Carter sacks the QB on first down. 2nd and 18. Then NE rushes 3/4 on both 2nd and 3rd down and get zero pressure. They pick up the 18 yards in 2 plays. The sacks look nice on the stat sheet. But please answer me this: What did that sack accomplish? Absolutely nothing. Sacks are overrated. Im definately not saying the secondary has played great, cause thats complete BS. But a consistent pass rush can greatly mask the secondaries weaknesses. Look at all the other elite defenses in the NFL. IMO, without Polamalu and Reed- Baltimore, Pitt, and Dallas's defenses all have average at best secondaries. They are successful because they can consistently pressure the QB. Suggs, Woodley, Harrisson, Ware. We have no one like that. No one that an offense will game plan for. No one that puts fear in the opposing offensive line. NO ONE.
    Posted by orangecrush28

    have to agree. i don't think sacks are a good barometer, but it's part of what needs to happen. ultimately it is important to consistently crowd the qb. the value of the sack is of intimidation. after a sack or two early the qb gets nervous so he gets rattled when he gets crowded in. without the sacks the qb will dare to hold on the the ball just a tad longer despite crowding, but long enough to get a decent pass out.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mighty2011. Show mighty2011's posts

    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

    In Response to Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...:
    In Response to Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue... : I disagree.  The inablility to stop a team third and long keeps the defense on the field too much, gives our Offense no time and tires out the defense to the point of not being able to stop scores later.  Pressure on the QB, Dbacks coverage, and tackling are all issues.  All need fixing.  But for sure, TACKLING must be fixed first.  Too many short catches or runs that go for first downs by running through a tackler.
    Posted by Davedsone


    Well that's just not true, the D was on the field all game against the Steelers and only gave up 6 points in the second half.  They're big boys, they don't get tired from being on the field.  And the offense has to take care of itself, it can't go blaming the D if it's not scoring.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from orangecrush28. Show orangecrush28's posts

    Re: Pats D and those 3rd and 10+ yards issue...

    Its the lack of a CONSISTENT pass rush. Yea guys like carter and anderson have played fairly well, but think of it this way. Carter sacks the QB on first down. 2nd and 18. Then NE rushes 3/4 on both 2nd and 3rd down and get zero pressure. They pick up the 18 yards in 2 plays. The sacks look nice on the stat sheet. But please answer me this: What did that sack accomplish? Absolutely nothing.

    Sacks are overrated. Im definately not saying the secondary has played great, cause thats complete BS. But a consistent pass rush can greatly mask the secondaries weaknesses. Look at all the other elite defenses in the NFL. IMO, without Polamalu and Reed- Baltimore, Pitt, and Dallas's defenses all have average at best secondaries. They are successful because they can consistently pressure the QB. Suggs, Woodley, Harrisson, Ware. We have no one like that. No one that an offense will game plan for. No one that puts fear in the opposing offensive line. NO ONE.
     
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