Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tydog. Show Tydog's posts

    Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    Heard this on a Patriots podcast.  


    The last few practices have been mostly 3/4 with Ch. Jones as an Elephant OLB, Hightower as an OLB, with Collins and Mayo on the inside.  


    I like this as long as VW or someone at NT can plug the middle, it allows for a lot of creativity in the pass rush. 


     


     


     


    "I swear it upon Zues the most exceptional runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler"  Socrates

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    In response to Tydog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Heard this on a Patriots podcast.  

     

    The last few practices have been mostly 3/4 with Ch. Jones as an Elephant OLB, Hightower as an OLB, with Collins and Mayo on the inside.  

     

    I like this as long as VW or someone at NT can plug the middle, it allows for a lot of creativity in the pass rush. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    "I swear it upon Zues the most exceptional runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler"  Socrates

    [/QUOTE]

    I talked about this after they drafted.jones and said he has mcginest elephant potential at olb.

    Very nice to hear.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    I would love to see that.

    Jones-Collins-Mayo-Hightower as the LB with Jones pretty much rushing always

    Kelly-Vince-Nink on the line.

    I would love this because then Hightower would be on the edge and could see a lot more rushing from him which I would love to see as well.

    If they dropped into a 3-4 this season the versatility of the front 7 would be great

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately


    If Kelly and Wilfork are both healthy, Vince absolutely lines up outside in the 3-4 with Kelly over Center. The height difference alone is why, but Wilfork is a very underrated DE, especially in a 3-4. 3-4 ends do not rely on speed like a 4-3 end does, that's where Jones as an OLB uses his speed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThaJoker47. Show ThaJoker47's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    If this is true, maybe BB thinks with Chandler playing the OLB, he has finally found his Jason Taylor. Of course not comparing him to Jason Taylor. Just thinking schematic wise.


     


     




     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    Taylor was a 4-3 DE, if I am not mistaken. He tried to play some 3-4 later in his career, with NY, yes.

    The only thing I don't get about this is where it puts Hightower. Mayo and Collins would figure to be the interior guys and then Nink and Jones on the edges at OLB.

    A combo of Kelly, Vince down the middle and maybe someone else at the other DE spot?  I just can't figure who that would be.  You need some range to play 3-4 DE.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    Despite many reports to the contrary the Patriots base defense is still a 3/4, but like the rest of the league we run a nickel variation on almost every down in a game.  


    That being said I'm sure BB still wants the young players to know the defense inside and out, we still run a 3/4 over on running downs and it's highly likely if we played a power running team like Seattle or the 49ers we would employ more 3/4 on early downs.


    Wilfork or Siliga at nose, Kelly and Wilfork at end, I'd be interested to see Easely in at end on some downs?  This is where Armstead would have come in handy at end.


    Mayo and Hightower inside, Chandler Jones/Ninc rotating on the elephant side with Collins on the weak side.  Hightower inside on running downs could swap outside with Collins on passing downs...  that pass rush would be ferocious and the cover behind with Mayo and Collins would be superb. 


    All this talk is for not though, we'll see 3/4 about 15% of the time in the regular season and slightly more in the playoffs.  The majority of snaps will be a four man front with a large variety of players behind them.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThaJoker47. Show ThaJoker47's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Taylor was a 4-3 DE, if I am not mistaken. He tried to play some 3-4 later in his career, with NY, yes.

    The only thing I don't get about this is where it puts Hightower. Mayo and Collins would figure to be the interior guys and then Nink and Jones on the edges at OLB.

    A combo of Kelly, Vince down the middle and maybe someone else at the other DE spot?  I just can't figure who that would be.  You need some range to play 3-4 DE.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The only reason I brought up the comparsion was because BB tried to sway Taylor to the Pats before he signed with the Jets. Hence why he might want to make someone with similar stature to Taylors an OLB.  I know a lot of BG writers compared him to JPP but thought JT was a more fitting comparison. Then again I'm not on BB staff so what do I know. 

    Honestly, if we run the 3-4 wouldn't  Wilfork-Kelly-Nink with Jones-Mayo-Hightower-Collins make a little more sense. Considering Hightower ran the middle last year after Mayo went down and doesn't necessarily have the coverage skills on the outside that Collins showed glimpses of last year. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    In response to ThaJoker47's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Taylor was a 4-3 DE, if I am not mistaken. He tried to play some 3-4 later in his career, with NY, yes.

    The only thing I don't get about this is where it puts Hightower. Mayo and Collins would figure to be the interior guys and then Nink and Jones on the edges at OLB.

    A combo of Kelly, Vince down the middle and maybe someone else at the other DE spot?  I just can't figure who that would be.  You need some range to play 3-4 DE.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The only reason I brought up the comparsion was because BB tried to sway Taylor to the Pats before he signed with the Jets. Hence why he might want to make someone with similar stature to Taylors an OLB.  I know a lot of BG writers compared him to JPP but thought JT was a more fitting comparison. Then again I'm not on BB staff so what do I know. 

    Honestly, if we run the 3-4 wouldn't  Wilfork-Kelly-Nink with Jones-Mayo-Hightower-Collins make a little more sense. Considering Hightower ran the middle last year after Mayo went down and doesn't necessarily have the coverage skills on the outside that Collins showed glimpses of last year. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I hear ya on the Taylor concept.  I felt the same way at the time and I have no idea why Taylor chose the Jets. More money, I suppose, but what a disaster that was.

    Anyway, I'd be a little concerned with the run game on the edge without a Kelly-sized DE.  Then again, it just completely dawned on me:

    Will Smith was converting to a 3-4 DE last year under Rob Ryan when he got hurt.  So, this 3-4 thing may be very real.

    Nink, Kelly, Vince, Will Smith, Jones

     

             Collins/Mayo (Hightower in spots)

    I noticed seeing some clips BB had Hightower on the edge on the weakside. Not sure if the set they were in was a 4-3 or 3-4 though.

    Regardless, the skill sets appear to be there to at least play some 3-4 if they want it. Will Smith is a bigger player than people realize.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThaJoker47. Show ThaJoker47's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Despite many reports to the contrary the Patriots base defense is still a 3/4, but like the rest of the league we run a nickel variation on almost every down in a game.  

     

    That being said I'm sure BB still wants the young players to know the defense inside and out, we still run a 3/4 over on running downs and it's highly likely if we played a power running team like Seattle or the 49ers we would employ more 3/4 on early downs.

     

    Wilfork or Siliga at nose, Kelly and Wilfork at end, I'd be interested to see Easely in at end on some downs?  This is where Armstead would have come in handy at end.

     

    Mayo and Hightower inside, Chandler Jones/Ninc rotating on the elephant side with Collins on the weak side.  Hightower inside on running downs could swap outside with Collins on passing downs...  that pass rush would be ferocious and the cover behind with Mayo and Collins would be superb. 

     

    All this talk is for not though, we'll see 3/4 about 15% of the time in the regular season and slightly more in the playoffs.  The majority of snaps will be a four man front with a large variety of players behind them.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nailed it right on the head Wozzy. Our base defense is still definitely a 34 but since its become a passing league we see far more of a nickel package. 

    Easley might actually play end on some downs as we've seen from his highlights in college he lined up on the outside then before the snap moved closer inside.

    "Mayo and Hightower inside, Chandler Jones/Ninc rotating on the elephant side with Collins on the weak side. Hightower inside on running downs could swap outside with Collins on passing downs... that pass rush would be ferocious and the cover behind with Mayo and Collins would be superb."

    Also exactly what I was thinking. 

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DougIrwin. Show DougIrwin's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    BB has been running Collins at 4-3 MLB in camp.  Mayo is on the weakside.  All of this could change, but just saying.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BB has been running Collins at 4-3 MLB in camp.  Mayo is on the weakside.  All of this could change, but just saying.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Every year, Belichick does things in camp that get people talking, and it never materializes.

    One thing last year showed me...they had absolutely NO backup for Mayo. I mean, NONE. They tried Hightower, he was awful at it. They went with Spikes, because he was slightly less awful. Collins couldn't do it as a rookie. So Hightower's out, I don't see James Anderson filling that role well considering he's never done it, so that leaves only Collins as the emergency backup. He'd BETTER get some reps in there so he has a fighting chance if Mayo were to go down again. But short of Mayo going down, I find it highly unlikely to ever see Collins line up as the Mike in a 4-3. Honestly, I could practically see him as a SS before MLB.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Despite many reports to the contrary the Patriots base defense is still a 3/4, but like the rest of the league we run a nickel variation on almost every down in a game.  

     

    That being said I'm sure BB still wants the young players to know the defense inside and out, we still run a 3/4 over on running downs and it's highly likely if we played a power running team like Seattle or the 49ers we would employ more 3/4 on early downs.

     

    Wilfork or Siliga at nose, Kelly and Wilfork at end, I'd be interested to see Easely in at end on some downs?  This is where Armstead would have come in handy at end.

     

    Mayo and Hightower inside, Chandler Jones/Ninc rotating on the elephant side with Collins on the weak side.  Hightower inside on running downs could swap outside with Collins on passing downs...  that pass rush would be ferocious and the cover behind with Mayo and Collins would be superb. 

     

    All this talk is for not though, we'll see 3/4 about 15% of the time in the regular season and slightly more in the playoffs.  The majority of snaps will be a four man front with a large variety of players behind them.

    [/QUOTE]

    See when I think of us playing the 34 I just don't see who is going to play end for us...Seymour is gone and there are no Ty Warrens on the roster. It's interesting that you have Silga at nose, with Vince and Kelly at end. I think that maybe could work in a pinch, but I don't know if that's the answer - most likely the best answer we have - but not ideal. Armstead I think was most likely what they had in mind at end in a 34, and as a pass rushing DT in a 43. I can't see Easley playing end in a 34, he is so small...strong? Yes, but he gets swallowed up when big tackles get their hands on him. To me it looks like our defensive line is made for the 43 now and if you look at the backups/drafted guys/undrafted free agents...most of them look like 43 defensive tackles. I no longer see those tall 300 pounders here that make good 34 defensive ends. Am I wrong?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    The 3/4,4/3 debate is interesting especially with the personnel on the roster. Based on the fact they were only in the base D 1/3 of the time last year I think we will see more hybrid type fronts. I can see on certain passing downs Kelly/CJ on the inside with Nink and Smith on the ends. On other passing downs you may see Collins and Hightower on the ends with Kelly and CJ in the middle. I know it's early but they do seem to have some flexibility along the D-line and a ton of flexibility in the back 7 or 8 on passing downs.

    If they can stay healthy BB will be able to show a multitude of looks with varying personnel groupings.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DougIrwin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    BB has been running Collins at 4-3 MLB in camp.  Mayo is on the weakside.  All of this could change, but just saying.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Every year, Belichick does things in camp that get people talking, and it never materializes.

    One thing last year showed me...they had absolutely NO backup for Mayo. I mean, NONE. They tried Hightower, he was awful at it. They went with Spikes, because he was slightly less awful. Collins couldn't do it as a rookie. So Hightower's out, I don't see James Anderson filling that role well considering he's never done it, so that leaves only Collins as the emergency backup. He'd BETTER get some reps in there so he has a fighting chance if Mayo were to go down again. But short of Mayo going down, I find it highly unlikely to ever see Collins line up as the Mike in a 4-3. Honestly, I could practically see him as a SS before MLB.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree with this. Collins would be miscast inside. He needs to be in space or attacking the line from the edge. Also a good blitzer up the middle but not a MLB

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

     

     I think it's increasingly hard to pigeon hole defenses as 3-4 and 4-3, and the concept of "base" defense may be outdated as well. There definitely will be times when BB lines up three larger guys on the line with two bigger edge players flanking them.  But I think the evolution is toward more athleticism in the front seven and more one-gap techniques.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Pats D running a LOT of 3/4 lately

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    See when I think of us playing the 34 I just don't see who is going to play end for us...Seymour is gone and there are no Ty Warrens on the roster. It's interesting that you have Silga at nose, with Vince and Kelly at end. I think that maybe could work in a pinch, but I don't know if that's the answer - most likely the best answer we have - but not ideal. Armstead I think was most likely what they had in mind at end in a 34, and as a pass rushing DT in a 43. I can't see Easley playing end in a 34, he is so small...strong? Yes, but he gets swallowed up when big tackles get their hands on him. To me it looks like our defensive line is made for the 43 now and if you look at the backups/drafted guys/undrafted free agents...most of them look like 43 defensive tackles. I no longer see those tall 300 pounders here that make good 34 defensive ends. Am I wrong?

    [/QUOTE]

    You're not wrong but then again Armstead was a priority free agent and got sick, this roster would have a different tone with another DT who had some nose tackle properties.  With all the no huddle, the QB option type offenses now the need for 330 pound tackles has lessened, but ideally these big DT's would be like Wilfork; mobile and well conditioned even at 330 pounds.

    There is more emphasis on the pass now which means more emphasis on pass rushers, BB still wants his players to be versatile and have traits to play multiple positions, but that being said a decade ago you wouldn't have seen them draft Easely or Zach Moore who are a 4/3 tackle and 4/3 end respectively.

     

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