Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    I think you are confused because you are looking at old QB rating which currently has like 10 guys over 100.




    Actually there are 5 guys at 100 or better.

    There were 4 guys at 100 or better in 2004.

    The average team is 84 right now but that could dip with 3 cold weather games left (though with this global warming it seems bad weather winter games are scarcer and scarcer). In 1995 it was 77.5.

    Yeah, PR is up a bit after the contact rule changes. But there are also a good number of excellent QBs around right now. These things come in cycles.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    I think you are confused because you are looking at old QB rating which currently has like 10 guys over 100.




    Actually there are 5 guys at 100 or better.

    There were 4 guys at 100 or better in 2004.

    The average team is 84 right now but that could dip with 3 cold weather games left (though with this global warming it seems bad weather winter games are scarcer and scarcer). In 1995 it was 77.5.

    Yeah, PR is up a bit after the contact rule changes. But there are also a good number of excellent QBs around right now. These things come in cycles.

     

     

    [/QUOTE

    Ok...  Got the QB stats figured out...  Moving on.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    I think you are confused because you are looking at old QB rating which currently has like 10 guys over 100. Total QBR measures it more accurately imo, it weighs heavier on meaningful stats and less on scrub time B.S...at least that is what i gather from the definition.

    1st half of the season for 3 years running we were at 68 which was 30th in the LG, 2nd half we are at 37 which is 2nd best( I mispoke earlier and thought it was the best...oops)




    You didn't say "total QB rating".

     

    Beyond that, nobody but ESPN even knows what their rating is. Therefore it is a junk stat.

     

    I don't question your sincerity truechamp. And I don't question that BB gets the D better as the season goes on either. I just question those numbers as they look better than they actually are for obvious reasons and also the reasons stated.




    I admit that any rating of QB's are tough to measure, and I only really payed attention to the new Total QBR rating when espn 1st rolled it out. However I think 1 thing we can all agree on is that the old system is a joke.

    Take Carson Palmer for example.

    20 Carson Palmer, QB OAK 324 533 60.8 3,805 7.14 64 22 14 26 85.3 293

    He has an 85 qb rating which is good for 20th in the lg, but this guy is the new king of the "scrub time td". His team loses all the time and granted it isn't a good team but he ends up with decent fantasy numbers every week(good FF numbers correlate from passer rating) yet the majority of his yards accumulated and scoring drives have come in the 2nd half when his team is getting whipped.

    Do his numbers and rating mean he has done a better job then a guy like Andrew Luck who is rated lower by the old standard? I think not even close. Luck has lead his team to 6 4rth qtr come backs and a great record. Despite him throwing 18 tds to 18 int's he has performed the best when it counted and thus his "Total QBR RATING" is 9th in the NFL compared to 22nd in "qb rating" Tells quite a tale no?

    Palmer has a 85 rating for 20th best in LG, compared to a 45 Total QBR which is 27th in the LG. Note Manning and Brady are 1st and 2nd at 82 to 80.5 but the next guy is 7 points below them(not close) at 7pts below Brady.

    This new Total QBR measures important statistics that correlate to wins or losses, the old system measures a QB's fantasy football numbers.

     

     

     

    2012 Regular Season NFL Leaders RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA

    TOTAL QBR

    1 Peyton Manning, DEN 93.0 1.4 -12.6 12.5 94.3 571 113.8 66.5 82.4

    2 Tom Brady, NE 101.7 1.1 -12.3 6.5 97.0 578 110.3 62.3 80.6

    3 Matt Ryan, ATL 105.9 10.1 -23.7 5.3 97.5 600 96.5 46.7 73.7 4 Robert Griffin III, WSH 74.5 7.9 -17.5 7.2 72.0 536 81.3 36.8 71.3 5 Aaron Rodgers, GB 86.0 18.1 -32.7 10.1 81.5 583 87.3 39.0 70.8 6 Alex Smith, SF 41.7 3.7 -13.4 2.5 34.4 294 43.3 18.9 70.1 7 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 74.2 6.3 -17.2 0.7 64.0 426 61.5 26.1 69.3 8 Eli Manning, NYG 69.3 1.0 -10.4 7.4 67.3 539 75.9 31.2 68.3

    9 Andrew Luck, IND 63.0 21.4 -19.4 15.7 80.8 660 91.0 36.3 67.4

    10 Russell Wilson, SEA 67.2 12.0 -20.0 6.1 65.2 478 61.7 22.0 64.8 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 11 Matt Schaub, HOU 63.6 -0.9 -14.6 2.6 50.8 514 64.5 21.9 63.7 12 Tony Romo, DAL 97.6 3.0 -27.0 1.8 75.4 643 80.0 26.7 63.4 13 Drew Brees, NO 79.8 -0.5 -17.6 -2.5 59.1 610 75.5 24.9 63.2 14 Matthew Stafford, DET 85.3 7.3 -18.7 6.0 79.9 682 84.4 27.7 63.2 15 Josh Freeman, TB 63.1 3.0 -16.8 3.1 52.3 521 58.0 14.8 59.3 16 Jay Cutler, CHI 35.5 13.8 -18.5 2.6 33.4 460 43.8 5.6 54.0 17 Cam Newton, CAR 42.2 21.8 -24.1 6.2 46.1 568 54.1 7.0 54.0 18 Andy Dalton, CIN 57.0 14.4 -27.8 2.4 46.0 598 55.1 5.5 53.0 19 Jake Locker, TEN 16.9 9.3 -7.5 3.1 21.9 317 29.0 2.7 52.8 20 Joe Flacco, BAL 63.6 0.2 -28.2 8.4 44.1 562 48.4 1.7 51.0 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 21 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 43.5 0.9 -19.5 8.7 33.6 504 39.7 -2.1 48.7 22 Matt Hasselbeck, TEN 23.5 0.2 -9.6 0.5 14.6 266 20.8 -1.2 48.5 23 Nick Foles, PHI 20.6 3.5 -10.4 3.3 17.0 273 21.1 -1.6 48.1 24 Sam Bradford, STL 60.1 3.4 -25.1 -3.1 35.3 538 41.6 -3.1 48.1 25 Michael Vick, PHI 36.1 3.7 -20.5 7.5 26.9 431 32.5 -3.3 47.5 26 Ryan Fitzpatrick, BUF 37.7 2.6 -16.8 3.2 26.7 502 36.4 -5.2 46.6

    27 Carson Palmer, OAK 39.2 0.1 -20.0 8.2 27.5 629 40.9 -11.3 44.1

    28 Blaine Gabbert, JAC 24.4 -0.4 -15.5 4.6 13.1 359 19.9 -9.9 40.9 29 Christian Ponder, MIN 27.6 -0.2 -19.0 6.9 15.3 508 28.0 -14.1 40.9 30 Philip Rivers, SD 38.9 1.3 -25.1 4.3 19.4 565 29.7 -17.2 40.1 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 31 Kevin Kolb, ARI 21.1 5.9 -21.9 2.5 7.6 244 11.2 -9.1 38.0 32 Matt Cassel, KC 14.1 4.0 -13.0 2.0 7.1 345 14.2 -14.4 36.5 33 Chad Henne, JAC 16.0 -1.5 -13.2 1.8 3.2 232 7.5 -11.8 33.7 34 Mark Sanchez, NYJ 24.7 -1.1 -28.0 3.2 -1.2 476 7.4 -32.1 29.1 35 Brandon Weeden, CLE 16.4 -3.9 -21.1 0.1 -8.5 557 2.3 -43.9 26.1 36 John Skelton, ARI -5.2 -1.2 -8.1 0.7 -13.8 240 -13.2 -33.1 13.9 Glossary

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    Sorry the new format can't keep up but the total qbr is the last number at the end of each guys stats.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    talib has had a domino effect on the defense.....since his arrival, the pats have been able to put DMC at strong safety, which he is better suited at.....and have been able to put arrington in more of a nickel/inside role instead of having to worry about him chasing down receivers on the sidelines....the defense as a whole has really been stepping it up as late, and talib has been one of the reasons why.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    They improve every year down the stretch but with the addition of Talib and moving some guys around they took an even bigger step forward. The entire starting secondary is different except for Gregory.  McCourty to safety, Arrington to slot, Dennard and Talib at the corners. Obviously that allows the defense to become more aggressive .

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to sporter81's comment:

    They improve every year down the stretch but with the addition of Talib and moving some guys around they took an even bigger step forward. The entire starting secondary is different except for Gregory.  McCourty to safety, Arrington to slot, Dennard and Talib at the corners. Obviously that allows the defense to become more aggressive .



    yip

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    I think defensive passer rating is the number QBs average against you.  So better  would be down...

    Do you mean the ranking went up 11?

    pats currently rank  21 in  DPR... which is definitely trending up.  So basically your point is correct.

    thanks cool,
    no it was 11 point improvement  per pff




    Ok got it...  Yeah the chff guys invented this stat among others and they're interesting....  Like relativity index which pats rank first by a lot.

    Then they average all the stats by ranking. Its cool but then they say all stats are not equal.  figure that out... Like pick your favorites and make your argument... Lol.



    you are exactly right. for us, u gotta go with something eh.......

    our eyeballs say the same thing though and thats critical

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Qbr...  Kind of suspicious of that stat... Like passer rating isn't enough...?  apparently qbr factors in clutch somehow... So if you lose, bad qbr?  So it would follow that 21-0 will produce bad qbr on other side. qbr should just go back into some whiny stat monkeys brain where it came from ...yikes.

    Point of thread... D better.  Amazing people are just catching on to MCC at safety.  I was at buffalo game last year and it was the most obvious thing to see it in person how natural he looked as a safety.

    I get animated at times (working on that) but I cried and whined since that day that pats D was much better with MCC at safety.  He had a pick in that game and almost took it 80 yards to the house.  Meanwhile at corner he was being wasted (and criticised). Hmm... If he was at safety in postseason do we beat giants?  After seeing how bad chung regressed its not that much of a stretch.  The biggest play of that game was chung not breaking up manningham.

    I posted that he represents the new prototype for safety... Fast, ball skills, maybe undersized but with new rules, so what?  Put your fastest guy back there because he'll sucker the QB into throws and then close and make the play.  That is what we're seeing. it happened to me in high school... Dude just closed and picked me off on a ball I thought was a completion. I'll never forget it.

     

     

     

     

     



    "Point of thread... D better.  Amazing people are just catching on to MCC at safety.  I was at buffalo game last year and it was the most obvious thing to see it in person how natural he looked as a safety.

    I get animated at times (working on that) but I cried and whined since that day that pats D was much better with MCC at safety.  He had a pick in that game and almost took it 80 yards to the house.  Meanwhile at corner he was being wasted (and criticised). Hmm... If he was at safety in postseason do we beat giants?  After seeing how bad chung regressed its not that much of a stretch.  The biggest play of that game was chung not breaking up manningham."

     

    you are totally right. but preseason last year and all year it wasnt safe for me to say without 20 people spewing antipathy all over the boad. they  were really upset (some still are). you cant observer something BEFORE it becomes common knowledge or many will come with the torches. 

    of couse a year later , the torch carriers/witchburners all claim to have said the same thing back then....

    oh well.

    i just wish people would say whatever they want to say without atacking any of thier fellow human beings, and especially fellow pat fans.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    I think you are confused because you are looking at old QB rating which currently has like 10 guys over 100. Total QBR measures it more accurately imo, it weighs heavier on meaningful stats and less on scrub time B.S...at least that is what i gather from the definition.

    1st half of the season for 3 years running we were at 68 which was 30th in the LG, 2nd half we are at 37 which is 2nd best( I mispoke earlier and thought it was the best...oops)




    You didn't say "total QB rating".

     

    Beyond that, nobody but ESPN even knows what their rating is. Therefore it is a junk stat.

     

    I don't question your sincerity truechamp. And I don't question that BB gets the D better as the season goes on either. I just question those numbers as they look better than they actually are for obvious reasons and also the reasons stated.




    I admit that any rating of QB's are tough to measure, and I only really payed attention to the new Total QBR rating when espn 1st rolled it out. However I think 1 thing we can all agree on is that the old system is a joke.

    Take Carson Palmer for example.

    20 Carson Palmer, QB OAK 324 533 60.8 3,805 7.14 64 22 14 26 85.3 293

    He has an 85 qb rating which is good for 20th in the lg, but this guy is the new king of the "scrub time td". His team loses all the time and granted it isn't a good team but he ends up with decent fantasy numbers every week(good FF numbers correlate from passer rating) yet the majority of his yards accumulated and scoring drives have come in the 2nd half when his team is getting whipped.

    Do his numbers and rating mean he has done a better job then a guy like Andrew Luck who is rated lower by the old standard? I think not even close. Luck has lead his team to 6 4rth qtr come backs and a great record. Despite him throwing 18 tds to 18 int's he has performed the best when it counted and thus his "Total QBR RATING" is 9th in the NFL compared to 22nd in "qb rating" Tells quite a tale no?

    Palmer has a 85 rating for 20th best in LG, compared to a 45 Total QBR which is 27th in the LG. Note Manning and Brady are 1st and 2nd at 82 to 80.5 but the next guy is 7 points below them(not close) at 7pts below Brady.

    This new Total QBR measures important statistics that correlate to wins or losses, the old system measures a QB's fantasy football numbers.

     

     

     

    2012 Regular Season NFL Leaders RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA

    TOTAL QBR

    1 Peyton Manning, DEN 93.0 1.4 -12.6 12.5 94.3 571 113.8 66.5 82.4

    2 Tom Brady, NE 101.7 1.1 -12.3 6.5 97.0 578 110.3 62.3 80.6

    3 Matt Ryan, ATL 105.9 10.1 -23.7 5.3 97.5 600 96.5 46.7 73.7 4 Robert Griffin III, WSH 74.5 7.9 -17.5 7.2 72.0 536 81.3 36.8 71.3 5 Aaron Rodgers, GB 86.0 18.1 -32.7 10.1 81.5 583 87.3 39.0 70.8 6 Alex Smith, SF 41.7 3.7 -13.4 2.5 34.4 294 43.3 18.9 70.1 7 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 74.2 6.3 -17.2 0.7 64.0 426 61.5 26.1 69.3 8 Eli Manning, NYG 69.3 1.0 -10.4 7.4 67.3 539 75.9 31.2 68.3

    9 Andrew Luck, IND 63.0 21.4 -19.4 15.7 80.8 660 91.0 36.3 67.4

    10 Russell Wilson, SEA 67.2 12.0 -20.0 6.1 65.2 478 61.7 22.0 64.8 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 11 Matt Schaub, HOU 63.6 -0.9 -14.6 2.6 50.8 514 64.5 21.9 63.7 12 Tony Romo, DAL 97.6 3.0 -27.0 1.8 75.4 643 80.0 26.7 63.4 13 Drew Brees, NO 79.8 -0.5 -17.6 -2.5 59.1 610 75.5 24.9 63.2 14 Matthew Stafford, DET 85.3 7.3 -18.7 6.0 79.9 682 84.4 27.7 63.2 15 Josh Freeman, TB 63.1 3.0 -16.8 3.1 52.3 521 58.0 14.8 59.3 16 Jay Cutler, CHI 35.5 13.8 -18.5 2.6 33.4 460 43.8 5.6 54.0 17 Cam Newton, CAR 42.2 21.8 -24.1 6.2 46.1 568 54.1 7.0 54.0 18 Andy Dalton, CIN 57.0 14.4 -27.8 2.4 46.0 598 55.1 5.5 53.0 19 Jake Locker, TEN 16.9 9.3 -7.5 3.1 21.9 317 29.0 2.7 52.8 20 Joe Flacco, BAL 63.6 0.2 -28.2 8.4 44.1 562 48.4 1.7 51.0 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 21 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 43.5 0.9 -19.5 8.7 33.6 504 39.7 -2.1 48.7 22 Matt Hasselbeck, TEN 23.5 0.2 -9.6 0.5 14.6 266 20.8 -1.2 48.5 23 Nick Foles, PHI 20.6 3.5 -10.4 3.3 17.0 273 21.1 -1.6 48.1 24 Sam Bradford, STL 60.1 3.4 -25.1 -3.1 35.3 538 41.6 -3.1 48.1 25 Michael Vick, PHI 36.1 3.7 -20.5 7.5 26.9 431 32.5 -3.3 47.5 26 Ryan Fitzpatrick, BUF 37.7 2.6 -16.8 3.2 26.7 502 36.4 -5.2 46.6

    27 Carson Palmer, OAK 39.2 0.1 -20.0 8.2 27.5 629 40.9 -11.3 44.1

    28 Blaine Gabbert, JAC 24.4 -0.4 -15.5 4.6 13.1 359 19.9 -9.9 40.9 29 Christian Ponder, MIN 27.6 -0.2 -19.0 6.9 15.3 508 28.0 -14.1 40.9 30 Philip Rivers, SD 38.9 1.3 -25.1 4.3 19.4 565 29.7 -17.2 40.1 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 31 Kevin Kolb, ARI 21.1 5.9 -21.9 2.5 7.6 244 11.2 -9.1 38.0 32 Matt Cassel, KC 14.1 4.0 -13.0 2.0 7.1 345 14.2 -14.4 36.5 33 Chad Henne, JAC 16.0 -1.5 -13.2 1.8 3.2 232 7.5 -11.8 33.7 34 Mark Sanchez, NYJ 24.7 -1.1 -28.0 3.2 -1.2 476 7.4 -32.1 29.1 35 Brandon Weeden, CLE 16.4 -3.9 -21.1 0.1 -8.5 557 2.3 -43.9 26.1 36 John Skelton, ARI -5.2 -1.2 -8.1 0.7 -13.8 240 -13.2 -33.1 13.9 Glossary




    I agree the traditional passer rating is flawed. Roethlisburger made a career out of taking sacks instead of making tough throws and boosted his PR that way. And it doesn't account for garbage time heroes as you say. I also think INTs should be a much bigger part of the equation. They are FAR more significant than say Y/A in determining who wins a football game.

    But at least we know what that is unlike espn's thing. Example: If their "clutch index" is giving guys more for their rating in clutch situations, a QB who rips up an opposing D to take a lead is penalized because his clutch opportunities are less. Without knowing exactly what they are doing it is impossible to assess the worth of their rating. (And they aren't going to give out the details so it's their "exclusive" property).

     

    Football is just a very hard game to nail with stats. So much depends on teammates too. But you do get a fairly good picture from PR and without that all you really have is opinion.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to coolade2's comment:

    Qbr...  Kind of suspicious of that stat... Like passer rating isn't enough...?  apparently qbr factors in clutch somehow... So if you lose, bad qbr?  So it would follow that 21-0 will produce bad qbr on other side. qbr should just go back into some whiny stat monkeys brain where it came from ...yikes.

    Point of thread... D better.  Amazing people are just catching on to MCC at safety.  I was at buffalo game last year and it was the most obvious thing to see it in person how natural he looked as a safety.

    I get animated at times (working on that) but I cried and whined since that day that pats D was much better with MCC at safety.  He had a pick in that game and almost took it 80 yards to the house.  Meanwhile at corner he was being wasted (and criticised). Hmm... If he was at safety in postseason do we beat giants?  After seeing how bad chung regressed its not that much of a stretch.  The biggest play of that game was chung not breaking up manningham.

    I posted that he represents the new prototype for safety... Fast, ball skills, maybe undersized but with new rules, so what?  Put your fastest guy back there because he'll sucker the QB into throws and then close and make the play.  That is what we're seeing. it happened to me in high school... Dude just closed and picked me off on a ball I thought was a completion. I'll never forget it.

     

     

     

     

     



    "Point of thread... D better.  Amazing people are just catching on to MCC at safety.  I was at buffalo game last year and it was the most obvious thing to see it in person how natural he looked as a safety.

    I get animated at times (working on that) but I cried and whined since that day that pats D was much better with MCC at safety.  He had a pick in that game and almost took it 80 yards to the house.  Meanwhile at corner he was being wasted (and criticised). Hmm... If he was at safety in postseason do we beat giants?  After seeing how bad chung regressed its not that much of a stretch.  The biggest play of that game was chung not breaking up manningham."

     

    you are totally right. but preseason last year and all year it wasnt safe for me to say without 20 people spewing antipathy all over the boad. they  were really upset (some still are). you cant observer something BEFORE it becomes common knowledge or many will come with the torches. 

    of couse a year later , the torch carriers/witchburners all claim to have said the same thing back then....

    oh well.

    i just wish people would say whatever they want to say without atacking any of thier fellow human beings, and especially fellow pat fans.




    I agree of course.   I've read pages and pages of threads of people doing that.  Exactly save the belittling insults for trolls who have no purpose being here except to gloat or be obnoxious.  Seriously, these are close to the scummiest people I can imagine....

    In a discussion a board member brought up the comparison of giants being lucky with patriots being lucky in 2001 tuck rule.

    of course, but could you imagine going on a raider forum and gloating about it...?  Nobody on this board that I have respect for would do that... But here we are dealing with it on a daily basis with trolls like jintsy and Leon from NY.   so save it for them.  They really deserve it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats Defensive Passer Rating Up 11 points Since Talib Brought in.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    I think you are confused because you are looking at old QB rating which currently has like 10 guys over 100. Total QBR measures it more accurately imo, it weighs heavier on meaningful stats and less on scrub time B.S...at least that is what i gather from the definition.

    1st half of the season for 3 years running we were at 68 which was 30th in the LG, 2nd half we are at 37 which is 2nd best( I mispoke earlier and thought it was the best...oops)




    You didn't say "total QB rating".

     

    Beyond that, nobody but ESPN even knows what their rating is. Therefore it is a junk stat.

     

    I don't question your sincerity truechamp. And I don't question that BB gets the D better as the season goes on either. I just question those numbers as they look better than they actually are for obvious reasons and also the reasons stated.




    I admit that any rating of QB's are tough to measure, and I only really payed attention to the new Total QBR rating when espn 1st rolled it out. However I think 1 thing we can all agree on is that the old system is a joke.

    Take Carson Palmer for example.

    20 Carson Palmer, QB OAK 324 533 60.8 3,805 7.14 64 22 14 26 85.3 293

    He has an 85 qb rating which is good for 20th in the lg, but this guy is the new king of the "scrub time td". His team loses all the time and granted it isn't a good team but he ends up with decent fantasy numbers every week(good FF numbers correlate from passer rating) yet the majority of his yards accumulated and scoring drives have come in the 2nd half when his team is getting whipped.

    Do his numbers and rating mean he has done a better job then a guy like Andrew Luck who is rated lower by the old standard? I think not even close. Luck has lead his team to 6 4rth qtr come backs and a great record. Despite him throwing 18 tds to 18 int's he has performed the best when it counted and thus his "Total QBR RATING" is 9th in the NFL compared to 22nd in "qb rating" Tells quite a tale no?

    Palmer has a 85 rating for 20th best in LG, compared to a 45 Total QBR which is 27th in the LG. Note Manning and Brady are 1st and 2nd at 82 to 80.5 but the next guy is 7 points below them(not close) at 7pts below Brady.

    This new Total QBR measures important statistics that correlate to wins or losses, the old system measures a QB's fantasy football numbers.

     

     

     

    2012 Regular Season NFL Leaders RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA

    TOTAL QBR

    1 Peyton Manning, DEN 93.0 1.4 -12.6 12.5 94.3 571 113.8 66.5 82.4

    2 Tom Brady, NE 101.7 1.1 -12.3 6.5 97.0 578 110.3 62.3 80.6

    3 Matt Ryan, ATL 105.9 10.1 -23.7 5.3 97.5 600 96.5 46.7 73.7 4 Robert Griffin III, WSH 74.5 7.9 -17.5 7.2 72.0 536 81.3 36.8 71.3 5 Aaron Rodgers, GB 86.0 18.1 -32.7 10.1 81.5 583 87.3 39.0 70.8 6 Alex Smith, SF 41.7 3.7 -13.4 2.5 34.4 294 43.3 18.9 70.1 7 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 74.2 6.3 -17.2 0.7 64.0 426 61.5 26.1 69.3 8 Eli Manning, NYG 69.3 1.0 -10.4 7.4 67.3 539 75.9 31.2 68.3

    9 Andrew Luck, IND 63.0 21.4 -19.4 15.7 80.8 660 91.0 36.3 67.4

    10 Russell Wilson, SEA 67.2 12.0 -20.0 6.1 65.2 478 61.7 22.0 64.8 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 11 Matt Schaub, HOU 63.6 -0.9 -14.6 2.6 50.8 514 64.5 21.9 63.7 12 Tony Romo, DAL 97.6 3.0 -27.0 1.8 75.4 643 80.0 26.7 63.4 13 Drew Brees, NO 79.8 -0.5 -17.6 -2.5 59.1 610 75.5 24.9 63.2 14 Matthew Stafford, DET 85.3 7.3 -18.7 6.0 79.9 682 84.4 27.7 63.2 15 Josh Freeman, TB 63.1 3.0 -16.8 3.1 52.3 521 58.0 14.8 59.3 16 Jay Cutler, CHI 35.5 13.8 -18.5 2.6 33.4 460 43.8 5.6 54.0 17 Cam Newton, CAR 42.2 21.8 -24.1 6.2 46.1 568 54.1 7.0 54.0 18 Andy Dalton, CIN 57.0 14.4 -27.8 2.4 46.0 598 55.1 5.5 53.0 19 Jake Locker, TEN 16.9 9.3 -7.5 3.1 21.9 317 29.0 2.7 52.8 20 Joe Flacco, BAL 63.6 0.2 -28.2 8.4 44.1 562 48.4 1.7 51.0 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 21 Ryan Tannehill, MIA 43.5 0.9 -19.5 8.7 33.6 504 39.7 -2.1 48.7 22 Matt Hasselbeck, TEN 23.5 0.2 -9.6 0.5 14.6 266 20.8 -1.2 48.5 23 Nick Foles, PHI 20.6 3.5 -10.4 3.3 17.0 273 21.1 -1.6 48.1 24 Sam Bradford, STL 60.1 3.4 -25.1 -3.1 35.3 538 41.6 -3.1 48.1 25 Michael Vick, PHI 36.1 3.7 -20.5 7.5 26.9 431 32.5 -3.3 47.5 26 Ryan Fitzpatrick, BUF 37.7 2.6 -16.8 3.2 26.7 502 36.4 -5.2 46.6

    27 Carson Palmer, OAK 39.2 0.1 -20.0 8.2 27.5 629 40.9 -11.3 44.1

    28 Blaine Gabbert, JAC 24.4 -0.4 -15.5 4.6 13.1 359 19.9 -9.9 40.9 29 Christian Ponder, MIN 27.6 -0.2 -19.0 6.9 15.3 508 28.0 -14.1 40.9 30 Philip Rivers, SD 38.9 1.3 -25.1 4.3 19.4 565 29.7 -17.2 40.1 RK PLAYER PASS EPA RUN EPA SACK EPA PEN EPA TOTAL EPA ACT PLAYS QB PAR QB PAA TOTAL QBR 31 Kevin Kolb, ARI 21.1 5.9 -21.9 2.5 7.6 244 11.2 -9.1 38.0 32 Matt Cassel, KC 14.1 4.0 -13.0 2.0 7.1 345 14.2 -14.4 36.5 33 Chad Henne, JAC 16.0 -1.5 -13.2 1.8 3.2 232 7.5 -11.8 33.7 34 Mark Sanchez, NYJ 24.7 -1.1 -28.0 3.2 -1.2 476 7.4 -32.1 29.1 35 Brandon Weeden, CLE 16.4 -3.9 -21.1 0.1 -8.5 557 2.3 -43.9 26.1 36 John Skelton, ARI -5.2 -1.2 -8.1 0.7 -13.8 240 -13.2 -33.1 13.9 Glossary




    I agree the traditional passer rating is flawed. Roethlisburger made a career out of taking sacks instead of making tough throws and boosted his PR that way. And it doesn't account for garbage time heroes as you say. I also think INTs should be a much bigger part of the equation. They are FAR more significant than say Y/A in determining who wins a football game.

    But at least we know what that is unlike espn's thing. Example: If their "clutch index" is giving guys more for their rating in clutch situations, a QB who rips up an opposing D to take a lead is penalized because his clutch opportunities are less. Without knowing exactly what they are doing it is impossible to assess the worth of their rating. (And they aren't going to give out the details so it's their "exclusive" property).

     

    Football is just a very hard game to nail with stats. So much depends on teammates too. But you do get a fairly good picture from PR and without that all you really have is opinion.




    I agree, probably the reason Manning is above Brady. Brady buries his teams hopes early and his total qbr might suffer slightly. I mean Manning has what 6 more turnovers then Brady on the year but is rated higher? Still though I would rather look at a system that accounts for the "situation". Luck > then Palmer and it is not close.

     
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