Pats Drives

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    Re: Pats Drives

    1st and 10 at NYG 43.....RUN FORMATION  BJGE -1

    I said it on the game thread last night.  You can disagree if you want but this my friend set in motion the events that would ultimately cost us the game. 

    They advertised run and got stuffed for negative yardage.  The worst O'Brien call ever.  Spread them with Woodhead in the back field.  Hand off to Woodhead and you get at least 5.  Now you have 2nd and manageable.

     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    I posted this earlier, but if we're going to analyze drives, here's my take on the key plays in the second half after the Pats opening touchdown drive. After that initial drive to open the half, we could have put the Giants on their heels.  But here's where the problems occurred, in my opinion:

    Third Quarter

    1. Q3,11:13. The kickoff after the touchdown--Gostkowski was short of the endzone, which allowed the Giants to get a return and start their drive at the 35 rather than the 20.  Those were an important 15 yards, since it reduced the yards the Giants needed for a field goal by about one-third.  

    2. Q3, 9:53, Pats have Giants in a third and four at the Giants 41 and give up an 8 yard completion.  This is followed by three straight plays (two passes and one run) of seven yards or more.   The Giants end up with four plays for 34 yards and more than two minutes off the clock setting up a field goal four plays (and about one minute) later.  This was a bad stretch for the defense at a critical juncture in the game.

    3. Q3, 6:43, Kickoff . . . Edelman elects to take it out and gets only to the 17.  Not a huge loss in yardage, but it makes a difference. Pats play a tad conservatively, starting their drive with a hand-off to BJGE that gets just two yards.  On second and eight from the 19 they show run and pass to BJGE incomplete.  They can't get a completion on third down and have to punt. Giants end up with the ball at nearly midfield.  Poor decision by Edelman leads to conservative play calling.  BJGE just isn't effective in situations like this.  Attempt at running fizzles and lack of first down leads directly to great field position for the Giants.

    4. Q3, 5:36. With the Giants starting at their own 48 a stop is mandatory.  D holds strong on the first play--a run--but then gives up 17 yards on a second down pass. This is the first of four plays that net 38 yards for the Giants while eating two minutes off the clock.  Another disasterous stretch for the defense that results in 3 points.

    Fourth Quarter

    5. Q4, 14:31.  Brady throws the interception stalling a drive that--with the Pats back in shotgun and mixing run and pass--was looking promising.  Brady should not have taken a risk here.  It was first down so they had more chances, and while Gronk was open in single coverage against a LB, this was a broken play and a long pass to an injured receiver was inadvisable.  A poor throw made it a disaster. 

    6. Q4, 13:23.  The Nink offsides penalty on third and seven was a disaster.  It was followed by a stretch where the Giants got three first downs, 44 yards, and ate nearly four minutes off the clock. Drive stalled but allowed a good punt, which meant the offense had to start at its own 8 yard line.

    7. Q4, 4:40.  Despite starting at the 8 yard line, the Pats have marched almost 50 yards, relying mostly on the spread passing game from the shotgun. With a first and ten at the Giants 43, they switch to a run look and hand the ball to BJGE. Again, the running game fails them as BJGE loses a yard.  This sets up the Welker and Branch incompletions leading to a punt.

    8. Q4, 3:46. On first and ten from the 12, Manningham gets the 38-yard reception. The Pats D then gives up 50 yards on 8 plays, losing two precious minutes and giving the Giants the game-clinching touchdown.   
     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    In Response to Re: Pats Drives:
    [QUOTE]1st and 10 at NYG 43..... RUN FORMATION   BJGE -1 I said it on the game thread last night.  You can disagree if you want but this my friend set in motion the events that would ultimately cost us the game.  They advertised run and got stuffed for negative yardage.  The worst O'Brien call ever.  Spread them with Woodhead in the back field.  Hand off to Woodhead and you get at least 5.  Now you have 2nd and manageable.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]

    They tried that, it didn't work. Keep a power back(a true run threat) in and we exceed like we did at the start of the 3rd qtr. Running Woody = failed.


    B. Green-Ellis10444.4017
    W. Welker22110.5011
    D. Woodhead7182.606
    Team19834.4017

     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    What exactly, is your point. The final drive you listed the -1 yard on first down was a big play. They had run most of that drive in shotgun (which I thought you hated), lined up in a run formation, ran the ball, lost 1 yard and ended up punting.

    The defense did not have a good second half either, the Giants had four drives in the half. The were 45 yards on 10 plays ending in an FG, 39 yards on 8 plays another FG, 49 yards on 10 plays that ending in a punt that put the Patriots at their own 8-yard, and 88 yards on 9 plays for the game winning TD. That does not sound like great defense. The Giants managed to get a first down every single time the touched the ball (not a single three and out). Only once in the game did they keep the Giants on their own side of the field in the entire game. That cost you time off the clock and field position, that is not good defense.

    The reason why the game was low scoring was because the Giants wanted it low scoring. They did not think they could win a shoot out with the Patriots. The Giants dictated the tempo of that game on both offense and defense.
     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    In Response to Re: Pats Drives:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pats Drives : They tried that, it didn't work. Keep a power back(a true run threat) in and we exceed like we did at the start of the 3rd qtr. Running Woody = failed. B. Green-Ellis 10 44 4.4 0 17 W. Welker 2 21 10.5 0 11 D. Woodhead 7 18 2.6 0 6 Team 19 83 4.4 0 17
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    O'Blivious called a play with a formation that was destine for failure and it failed big time.
     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    Here's the problem, you are only showing half the stats.
    The average NFL possession lasts 2 1/2 minutes.
    The Pats were close to that even with that 31 second possession.
    On the other hand the Giants time of possession per drive was 4 1/2 minutes per drive.  So, whether they scored 0, 3, or 7pts they still kept the ball away from the Pats for an extra 2 minutes per drive thus eliminating the Pats from scoring.
    If the D keeps them closer to the 2 1/2 minute average it's a different ball game. 
    This is why yards per game come into play.  They might not give up a lot of points but in giving up yards they are giving up precious time.
    The 3 losses to the Jints and Steelers were lost this way.
    It's hard to win if you don't have the ball.  Every single possession becomes crucial.  Unless you score on most of them you lose.
    Sorry, but the D has to get the ball back quicker.  You can't expect the O to score on every play.  The other team has a D too.
     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    In Response to Re: Pats Drives:
    [QUOTE]1st and 10 at NYG 43..... RUN FORMATION   BJGE -1 I said it on the game thread last night.  You can disagree if you want but this my friend set in motion the events that would ultimately cost us the game.  They advertised run and got stuffed for negative yardage.  The worst O'Brien call ever.  Spread them with Woodhead in the back field.  Hand off to Woodhead and you get at least 5.  Now you have 2nd and manageable.
    Posted by tcal2-[/QUOTE]


    on neg yard play and you give up the run? am surprised to read this from you. are you of the impression that good RBs do not get neg plays every now and then. giving up on the run is exactly what the giants wanted the pats to do. the pats got suckered into it.

     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    In Response to Re: Pats Drives:
    [QUOTE]Here's the problem, you are only showing half the stats. The average NFL possession lasts 2 1/2 minutes. The Pats were close to that even with that 31 second possession. On the other hand the Giants time of possession per drive was 4 1/2 minutes per drive.  So, whether they scored 0, 3, or 7pts they still kept the ball away from the Pats for an extra 2 minutes per drive thus eliminating the Pats from scoring. If the D keeps them closer to the 2 1/2 minute average it's a different ball game.  This is why yards per game come into play.  They might not give up a lot of points but in giving up yards they are giving up precious time. The 3 losses to the Jints and Steelers were lost this way. It's hard to win if you don't have the ball.  Every single possession becomes crucial.  Unless you score on most of them you lose. Sorry, but the D has to get the ball back quicker.  You can't expect the O to score on every play.  The other team has a D too.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    Smart post, pezz.  

     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    In Response to Re: Pats Drives:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pats Drives : on neg yard play and you give up the run? am surprised to read this from you. are you of the impression that good RBs do not get neg plays every now and then. giving up on the run is exactly what the giants wanted the pats to do. the pats got suckered into it.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]


    I don't know what game you were watching, but the Pats moved the ball best when they spread it out.  In their second drive in the third quarter, they went from spread to running formations and BJGE got stuffed for only 2 yards on first down.  That drive ended up 3 and out.  The next drive they went back to spread and were moving fairly well till Brady threw the dumb interception. Next drive they went back to spread, moved it well, but then decided to run the tcal play for minus 1.  That helped kill a drive.  Runs, in key places, just didn't work.  Problem is this team can run only if they show pass.  Good running teams run well even when they show run.   
     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    In Response to Re: Pats Drives:
    [QUOTE]Here's the problem, you are only showing half the stats. The average NFL possession lasts 2 1/2 minutes. The Pats were close to that even with that 31 second possession. On the other hand the Giants time of possession per drive was 4 1/2 minutes per drive.  So, whether they scored 0, 3, or 7pts they still kept the ball away from the Pats for an extra 2 minutes per drive thus eliminating the Pats from scoring. If the D keeps them closer to the 2 1/2 minute average it's a different ball game.  This is why yards per game come into play.  They might not give up a lot of points but in giving up yards they are giving up precious time. The 3 losses to the Jints and Steelers were lost this way. It's hard to win if you don't have the ball.  Every single possession becomes crucial.  Unless you score on most of them you lose. Sorry, but the D has to get the ball back quicker.  You can't expect the O to score on every play.  The other team has a D too.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]
    pezz... spot on and I have made this observation a lot.  The bend and don't break defense allows the opponent to control the clock all too often.  When you have the offense like the Patriots do, you WANT to get them the ball as often as you can, not as little as you can because they score fast.  Imagine if this offense did get the ball and more time each game?  The D gave Brady and the O a total of 22 minutes to do their job.  You can be good, but, when you are FORCED to hurry because you have a feeling your D will not get in back quickly, you force plays, don't you??!!
     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    So, Jints...  the Giants can allow TWO long scoring drives in the game then just decide on a whim to play good D?  Is that it?  Seems the Pats play calling changed a bit too and went away from what was working.  Yes, give credit where it is due, the Giants did turn up the pressure, but, the Pats O-line stopped effectively blocking too!  Goes both ways.
     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    In Response to Re: Pats Drives:
    [QUOTE]Here's the problem, you are only showing half the stats. The average NFL possession lasts 2 1/2 minutes. The Pats were close to that even with that 31 second possession. On the other hand the Giants time of possession per drive was 4 1/2 minutes per drive.  So, whether they scored 0, 3, or 7pts they still kept the ball away from the Pats for an extra 2 minutes per drive thus eliminating the Pats from scoring. If the D keeps them closer to the 2 1/2 minute average it's a different ball game.  This is why yards per game come into play.  They might not give up a lot of points but in giving up yards they are giving up precious time. The 3 losses to the Jints and Steelers were lost this way. It's hard to win if you don't have the ball.  Every single possession becomes crucial.  Unless you score on most of them you lose. Sorry, but the D has to get the ball back quicker.  You can't expect the O to score on every play.  The other team has a D too.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    Part of the Giants strategy was to eat up the clock and limit the Patriots number of possesions so even though the Patriots scored touchdown on 1/4 of their possessions plus a FG, that was not enough. The D needed some three and outs to get the ball right back not 50 yards, 5:00 minutes and a FG.
     
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    Re: Pats Drives

    I think last night proved many things, but the main thing it showed to me is that we are a passing team first and foremost. When we tried to run, it absolutely killed momentum and drives....wish that wasn't the case, but it is.

    Another thing, this bend, but don't break defense is killing us. The Giants had eight possessions in this game, they weren't forced into a three and out on any of them...not a single one (that is unheard of). The time of possession in this game was 38 minutes to 22...are you kidding me? In 38 minutes of defensive football they did not create one single turnover, not a one. When we were fortunate enough to stop them they were so far up the field that all they had to do was punt and pin the offense inside the ten. This happened three times. How in the blue hell are you supposed to move the ball against a very good defense when you're starting at your 5 yard line half the damn game? Amazingly the offense did this (longest scoring drive in NFL history in a Super Bowl).

    I realize this team is built for offense, so if I were to blame any unit, it would be more on their shoulders. I'll tell you what though, when that ball bounced off of Welker's hands - I thought - this game is over, we are done...there is no way our defense will stop them. On the Giant's eighth and final drive they drove the ball 80 yards downfield for the touchdown. There was no sacks, coverage, or run defense to speak of on the most important drive that many of those players will experience in their entire lives...nothing.

    We deserved to lose this game, the Giants are a better built team all around. They ran it better, stopped the run better, covered better, pressured better, and passed better. Despite all that Belichick had a game plan in place that had us up with minutes to play. I think if you swapped coaches in this game, the Giants win by 17.
     
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