Pats get Talib compensation too right?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    3rd rounder? Because Revis was released, they don't cancel out, if I'm correct 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb24. Show isurfvb24's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    im not sure how that works, i dont believe they got anything for welker.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from getdrunkstupit. Show getdrunkstupit's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    we should get a 3rd for welker. 3rd for hernandez.  3rd for talib.  but well it's the patriots.  maybe if we were the jets and lost Santonio HOlmes we'd get somthing.  Ignorant how the nfl hates the pats and no one sees it

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    3rd rounder? Because Revis was released, they don't cancel out, if I'm correct 

     



    No...... where did you hear that from? You don't get picks from signing FA's you only get comp picks for losing them or picks via trade. Revis was a FA so it counts as a FA signing doesn't matter if he's released. But, you'll find out next year

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to getdrunkstupit's comment:

    we should get a 3rd for welker. 3rd for hernandez.  3rd for talib.  but well it's the patriots.  maybe if we were the jets and lost Santonio HOlmes we'd get somthing.  Ignorant how the nfl hates the pats and no one sees it



    Amendola cancels out Welker so no pick

    Hernandez was released so no pick

    Revis will cancel out Talib so no pick

    It's not the NFL hating us that's how comp picks work

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    3rd rounder? Because Revis was released, they don't cancel out, if I'm correct 



    No...... where did you hear that from? You don't get picks from signing FA's you only get comp picks for losing them or picks via trade



    They lost Talib to FA. As long as they don't sign a FA to a big contract, I'm pretty sure they get the compensation for Talib. the Revis signing would have canceled this out if not for the fact that Revis was released

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kyle-Cleric. Show Kyle-Cleric's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    Revis doesn't cancel Talib. Revis was released by Buccs.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    No.  The Patriots may get a pick for Talib, IF they have a net loss of free agents (they sign less than they lose).  That pick would be in 2015 and would likely be a 3rd or 4th rounder.


    The Patriots will only add a pick THIS year for Welker if they had a net loss of free agents in 2013.  The Welker pick (if they receive one) will likely be a 4th or 5th rounder as he didn't sign a large contract.


    The Pats will, however, receive a (likely) 3rd Rounder in 2016 for Revis, if they have a net loss in free agents in 2015.

     

     

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

    No.  The Patriots may get a pick for Talib, IF they have a net loss of free agents (they sign less than they lose).  That pick would be in 2015 and would likely be a 3rd or 4th rounder.


    The Patriots will only add a pick THIS year for Welker if they had a net loss of free agents in 2013.  The Welker pick (if they receive one) will likely be a 4th or 5th rounder as he didn't sign a large contract.


    The Pats will, however, receive a (likely) 3rd Rounder in 2016 for Revis, if they have a net loss in free agents in 2015.

     

     

     



    That is correct.

     

    i think this will play a huge factor in BBs remaining FA signings. Do far, I have Spikes, Fletcher and Talib as the definite defections. Pats can still afford Woodyard and not worry about losing the comp pick. after that, i would guess release targets will be there go too

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    It doesn't matter if Revis was released. That makes him a FA regardless of how he got there so it's still a FA signing by the Pats so he cancels out Talib

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/red_zone/2014-NFL-compensatory-pick-projections.html

     

    Pats are not predicted to get a pick for Welker.  They may receive a pick for Patrick Chung. The above mentioned article thinks that it will be a 6th rounder. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    It doesn't matter if Revis was released. That makes him a FA regardless of how he got there so it's still a FA signing by the Pats so he cancels out Talib



    http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/3/12/5498646/nfl-free-agency-49ers-gains-losses-nfl-draft-compensation-picks

     

    ill find a more reputable source. But I've read elsewhere that release players don't figure into the calculation.

     

    otherwise teams would greatly benefit from purging their teams

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    Based on the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement:

    A team is eligible to receive compensatory draft picks if it is determined that they lost more or better players than they were able to acquire during the previous year's free agency period. The number of picks a team receives equals the net loss of compensatory free agents (maximum of four).

    Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula that was developed by the NFL Management Council. Not every free agent lost or signed by a team is covered by this formula.

     

    http://football.about.com/library/weekly/bl_draftcomp.htm

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to TravisBean's comment:

    If that is true, that's more or less a heist in terms of playing the market and maximizing the need and ROI.



    What almost everyone here doesn't see is that these guys are not simply players...BB and the Pats MGT looks at these guys in economics terms...they are assets with attached costs...they are valued in a $$$ sense, not just in a playing sense...to BB they are one and the same...to understand what they do you must realize that...once the "asset" doesn't return value versus the cost, it's time to move on...just like any business...it's coldblooded, but it maintain s "value" in the enterprise

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    It doesn't matter if Revis was released. That makes him a FA regardless of how he got there so it's still a FA signing by the Pats so he cancels out Talib



    http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/3/12/5498646/nfl-free-agency-49ers-gains-losses-nfl-draft-compensation-picks

     

    ill find a more reputable source. But I've read elsewhere that release players don't figure into the calculation.

     

    otherwise teams would greatly benefit from purging their teams



    The link you posted says if a player qualifies to be a compensation it doesn't say what players count against it. The Bucs can't get a comp pick because they released him however, it does count against the Pats because they aquired him through FA

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:

    No.  The Patriots may get a pick for Talib, IF they have a net loss of free agents (they sign less than they lose).  That pick would be in 2015 and would likely be a 3rd or 4th rounder.


    The Patriots will only add a pick THIS year for Welker if they had a net loss of free agents in 2013.  The Welker pick (if they receive one) will likely be a 4th or 5th rounder as he didn't sign a large contract.


    The Pats will, however, receive a (likely) 3rd Rounder in 2016 for Revis, if they have a net loss in free agents in 2015.

     

     

     



    It's not just net it's quality of player left first bring in. In otherwords, if the Pats bring in a scrub it wouldn't cancel out Talib provided they lost more than they gained, however because of the quality of the signing in Revis that would chance it out but they could still get picks from other players lost if tey end up losing more than they gain

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    Simple explaination, it's a bit more complicated but basically. Say there are 4 grades of FA and a team loses 1 from each grade. However they sign a grade 1, 2, and 4 doesn't matter if those players are cut or on FA they were signed regardless. They lost more than they gained so they get a comp pick. However the 1's cancel out and the 2's cancel out and the 4's cancel out. Since The grade 3 didn't cancel out they get compensated for that grade.

    A bit more complicated same scenerio but they sign a 1 and two 4's. The 1's cancel and the two 4's get counted as a 3 and 4 so they get comp'd for the grade 2 they lost 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Simple explaination, it's a bit more complicated but basically. Say there are 4 grades of FA and a team loses 1 from each grade. However they sign a grade 1, 2, and 4 doesn't matter if those players are cut or on FA they were signed regardless. They lost more than they gained so they get a comp pick. However the 1's cancel out and the 2's cancel out and the 4's cancel out. Since The grade 3 didn't cancel out they get compensated for that grade.

    A bit more complicated same scenerio but they sign a 1 and two 4's. The 1's cancel and the two 4's get counted as a 3 and 4 so they get comp'd for the grade 2 they lost 



    I'm pretty sure how the players reached FA does matter. If you can point out a pick awarded based off a player that was released than I will admit that I'm wrong.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    The Pats will get one 6th rounder this year for Chung. DA cancels out WW.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Simple explaination, it's a bit more complicated but basically. Say there are 4 grades of FA and a team loses 1 from each grade. However they sign a grade 1, 2, and 4 doesn't matter if those players are cut or on FA they were signed regardless. They lost more than they gained so they get a comp pick. However the 1's cancel out and the 2's cancel out and the 4's cancel out. Since The grade 3 didn't cancel out they get compensated for that grade.

    A bit more complicated same scenerio but they sign a 1 and two 4's. The 1's cancel and the two 4's get counted as a 3 and 4 so they get comp'd for the grade 2 they lost 



    I'm pretty sure how the players reached FA does matter. If you can point out a pick awarded based off a player that was released than I will admit that I'm wrong.



    I can't because the team that released him doesn't get a pick that doesn't prove that the team that signs him it doesn't count as a FA signing. Once a player is release he's considered a FA and all FA pick ups count against comp picks for the signing team. So, Revis would count against Talib.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    http://es.pn/1oUoN21

     

    Here is a link to Reiss' evaluation of fits for the Pats. He goes over the comp pick impacts and goes over how released players aren't counted. see red Bryant.

     

    i believe michael smith of espn has a tweet someoje in his twitter that goes over this as well.

     

    Yes, they're still considered UFA's. but the formula does differentiate the difference between teams who lost players because they're contract expired from players who were just terminated.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    http://es.pn/1oUoN21

     

    Here is a link to Reiss' evaluation of fits for the Pats. He goes over the comp pick impacts and goes over how released players aren't counted. see red Bryant.

     

    i believe michael smith of espn has a tweet someoje in his twitter that goes over this as well.

     

    Yes, they're still considered UFA's. but the formula does differentiate the difference between teams who lost players because they're contract expired from players who were just terminated.

     



    You could be right. I could be thinking old CBA, but I just remember us not getting a comp pick because we picked up a player who was released. If so then good We could get a comp pick but we still need to lose more than we gain in the end which is a fair chance of happening

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from crowds24. Show crowds24's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    Patriots basically traded Talib and $2.5 million for Revis and a third-round pick (compo for loss of Talib)

    & a RING! yewwwww

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    This is PatsEng's wheel house, I'd trust him on this stuff if I were you guys

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjdbrasil. Show jjdbrasil's posts

    Re: Pats get Talib compensation too right?

    2015 Compensatory Picks Projection – a 3rd rounder for the New England Patriots

    Written By: Miguel Benzan
    Posted November 22, 2014 at 7:49 pm

    I claim no credit for the basis behind this work, as I have done nothing original. I merely used AdamJT13’s posted guidelines as best as I could. You can find his work at http://adamjt13.blogspot.com/2010/03/projecting-2010-compensatory-nfl-draft.html. If you are unfamiliar with his work, the basics that affect comp picks are:

    Players that are cut or not tendered as RFAs and ERFAs are not counted.
    Players earning low minimum salaries do not count.
    Each player signed cancels out one player lost.
    The round of the pick awarded is primarily determined by the annual value of the contract signed.
    Signed players cancel out lost players with equal contracts, then lower contracts, before canceling out higher contracts.
    Will the contracts/production/offseason honors of Brandon Browner (4.57M) and Brandon Lafell (3M APY) outweigh the contracts/production/offseason honors of Aqib Talib (9.5M APY), Brandon Spikes (3M APY), Dane Fletcher (1.1M APY)? Since the Patriots lost more qualifying UFAs than they have signed, I project that they will get one compensatory pick (most likely a third) in 2015. Brandon Lafell should offset Brandon Spikes while Brandon Browner should offset Dane Fletcher. Please note that Darrelle Revis and Patrick Chung are not involved in the compensatory pick calculation because they were released by their prior teams. Matthew Mulligan should not qualify to be counted in the calculation since he was released by the Bears in the middle of September. History has shown that players cut before Week 10 are not involved in the compensatory pick calculation. LeGarrette Blount should not qualify for the calculation since the Patriots signed him in November. I expect the NFL to treat LeGarrette Blount as they have done with free agents who were later traded – count against the team who ended up with the player. Since the Patriots ended up with Blount he, therefore, will not be included in the compensatory pick calculation. If he does count as a free agent lost, he should also count as a free agent signed.

    Precedents

    Isaac Sopoaga – who was traded by the Eagles in 2013 after being signed by them as an UFA. You can see on the 2014 compensatory picks announcement that Sopoaga is listed as being signed by the Patriots.
    Drew Stanton who was traded by the Jets in 2012 after being signed by them as an UFA. You can see on the NFL.Com website that Stanton is listed as being acquired by the Colts.
    Keary Colbert – Keary Colbert who was traded from the Broncos to the Seahawks
    Adamjt13 wrote this about traded players – “That might not seem fair in some cases, but the player always counts against the team that ends up with him. Otherwise, a team could end up with the player AND a comp pick, which would be even more unfair”. I believe that this also applies to players released by the new team and later re-signed by their old team.

    Accountability Check – I predicted a 2014 6th round compensatory pick for the Patriots. Patriots ended up with a 4th round pick. My mistake was in projecting that Danny Amendola would offset Wes Welker – “Amendola offsets Welker while Svitek offsets Woodhead and Sopoaga offsets Donald Thomas” leaving Chung as the lost free agent for the New England Patriots. In actuality, it ended up as Will Svitek offset Danny Woodhead, Isaac Sopoaga offset Patrick Chung with Amendola offsetting Donald Thomas leaving Wes Welker as the lost free agent for the Pats.

    FYI, In 2014

    49ers got the lowest 3rd round comp pick for Dashon Goldson whose contract has a APY of $8.3M.
    Atlanta got the lowest 4th round comp pick for Brent Grimes whose contract has a APY of $5.4M
    Green Bay got the lowest 5th round comp pick for Eric Walden whose contract has a APY of $4M
    Pittsburgh got the lowest 6th round comp pick for Rashard Mendenhall whose contract has a $2.5M
    The following lists the draft picks that the Patriots will enter the 2015 draft with as of November 23rd if my compensatory pick projection is correct.

    1 – Patriots – assigned selection
    2 – Patriots – assigned selection
    3 – Patriots – assigned selection
    3 – Patriots – compensatory pick
    4 – Buccaneers – acquired as part of the Logan Mankins trade
    4 – Patriots – assigned selection
    5 – Patriots – assigned selection – traded to the Buccaneers as part of the Jonathan Casillas trade
    6 – Buccaneers – acquired as part of the Jonathan Casillas trade
    6 – Patriots – assigned selection – traded to the Titans as part of the Akeem Ayers trade
    7 – Titans – acquired as part of the Akeem Ayers trade
    7 – Patriots – assigned selection – traded to the Eagles as part of the Greg Salas trade
    - See more at: http://www.patsfans.com/salary-cap/?p=857#sthash.EunL2zzl.dpuf

     
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