Pats In Prime Position In AFC

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to jri37's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I seriously just want to see all this young high priced talent that will be dumped by other teams, because of salary cap hell land on our roster - that would make me feel better, because we have gone out of our way to prepare for that to happen. So far it hasn't, all I'm seeing is good players restructuring and old players getting released, saving their teams millions. We have 25 million plus to spend - please tell me we are at least going to spend to the cap this year for the first time in three seasons. I'm tired of watching other teams play rough with us in the playoffs while we roll out Deaderick and Love while their Qb's can eat an ice cream waiting for someone to hit them.

     



    The problem isn't the money spent. If you look at the playoff teams the Pat's spent more than them all last year and were 8th in the entire league.

     

    The problem is the lack of play makers on offense and the D's inability to make a signature play or stop in the playoffs.

     




    You forgot one thing.  Tom Brady. Sorry.

     

    Look, you can't come in and out of these threads and act like he's had little to work just because Gronk got hurt.  It's high time this offense becomes a chameleon again just like the offense was winning the 3 SBs.

    NE was 6-1 without Gronk until the playoff loss to Balt.  Gronk not there isn't enough of an excuse.

    I'd argue losing Andre Carter or Jones and Talib this year hurt more than losing Gronk in the SB and Gronk this postseason. It does't mean those player are better than Gronk, it means that our offense is more loaded than our D is.

    By design.

    What dummy Hurl doesn't get, is if you "spend to the cap" which is the dumbest thing ever (you spend within 5 mil or so which is "to the cap" for knowledgeable GMs), means you alienate your leverage when getting McCourty and Spikes new deals next year.

    If you wait for them to go to FA, which you could, you'll probably be seeing some bloated bids on them. That means you can't just go beserk even in great cap position this year and next.

    Mt Hurl struggles to understand these concepts. Not surprising coming from a guy who thinks the cap is some myth and doesn't exist.

    What's happening right now with the market being overloaded for quality FAS who aren't just 34 and 35, should be embarrassment enough for him, but he's too daft to get it, so he isn't. LOL

     




    Couple of things...just tell me who these big name players are that will be cut from the mean old salary cap...don't give me these 34 plus, washed up guys either, but guys in their prime. Can you find any?

     

    Second, why can't you spend to the cap? Why when you have an aging hall of fame qb, can't you spend to the cap? Because you have to worry about keeping Spikes and McCourty? You got to be kidding me?! Yeah we are going to go all out to resign a two down linebacker with his own porn video, drug suspension, gay tweats and a knee scope. LMAO!!

    And before you talk about "alienating leverage" towards signing our corner (who couldn't play corner) safety....give Patrick Chung some thought...you would of signed that dope to a 10 year contract extension after his rookie season. How about we do this? Spend to the cap, try to win right now and worry about signing our decent young starters after we win something. I imagine by that time we can easily find two or three guys willing to restructure to keep these future hall of fame defenders...and just think, this scary flat cap will be all done by then!! Yippee!!

    Hey did you hear your buddy/best friend GM down in Atlanta cut three old washed up players today? Yeah, they cut three guys that you probably thought they over payed for (when in actuality they proved to be very usefull)...and then cut them when they proved to be old and too expensive.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

    10 days to start of free agency and we will see what goodies BB brings to the roster and  improve the team and thus continue to validate the premise that the Pats are in a good position in the AFC.

     



    Anything less than the '03 or '07 offseason will be a dissapointment to me

    If the pats grab 2-3 top free agents while keeping their own it will go a long way to making me excited about the season. When you bring in Rosie Colvin/Rodney Harrison one offseason or Moss/Adlius Thomas another, fans have the right to be excited.

    Get Jairus Byrd, Dashon Goldon or Ed Reed while keeping Talib. Add Henry Melton or Randy Starks to the interior or Cliff Avril or Michael Bennett to the edge. Get Welker at a discount (6-7m per year 3-4 years) and only move on from Vollmer if you add a cheaper LT (Long, Smith, Albert) and move Solder over to the right side

    Do all that and draft the front 7 player at a position you didn't add in free agency and a big play WR and THEN I will be REAL excited.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    10 days to start of free agency and we will see what goodies BB brings to the roster and  improve the team and thus continue to validate the premise that the Pats are in a good position in the AFC.

     



    Anything less than the '03 or '07 offseason will be a dissapointment to me

     

    If the pats grab 2-3 top free agents while keeping their own it will go a long way to making me excited about the season. When you bring in Rosie Colvin/Rodney Harrison one offseason or Moss/Adlius Thomas another, fans have the right to be excited.

    Get Jairus Byrd, Dashon Goldon or Ed Reed while keeping Talib. Add Henry Melton or Randy Starks to the interior or Cliff Avril or Michael Bennett to the edge. Get Welker at a discount (6-7m per year 3-4 years) and only move on from Vollmer if you add a cheaper LT (Long, Smith, Albert) and move Solder over to the right side

    Do all that and draft the front 7 player at a position you didn't add in free agency and a big play WR and THEN I will be REAL excited.



    FYI I believe Byrd and Melton are both getting the franchise tag from their respective teams.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    Jeffri ChadiHaHaHa at ESPN thinks otherwise

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8998804/nfl-patriots-dynasty-decline

     

     




    I almost posted that to show the ESPN programmable anti-BB bias.  Can you explain how one point Chadiha makes any sense at all?

     

    There is not one knowledgable NFL fan, even if they hate the Pats, that could support his premise.

    How can a team with the youngest D in the AFC with such great experience in the postseason so far all at once, with 26 million in cap space (if not more), into 2014, be "in decline"?

    It makes no sense.  If Gronk, Talib and Jones were available in the AFC title game, I think we can admit that the game's final score would have at least been closer vs Balt winning how they did.

    2011 - SB loss with 1 or 2 plays a win

    2012 - AFC title game loss with key players out

    NE will win the division in the AFCE, go no worse than 12-4 and get a #1 or #2 seed again.

    Yet, this is decline?

    Decline is the Steelers or Ravens. THOSE are teams who won't be the same in upcoming years who won't announce to their fans they'll be scrambling to rebuild and hold serve.

     

     

     



    Just go back and watch "The Dark Knight Rises" if you want to see Heinz Field crumble like it will in the near future. Might as well be the Ravens on the field with them too when Bane pushes the button.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    Thanks king for article.  Good read.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    I believe the true king of the jungle lurking in the bush this draft day will be SF. I was told that they now have 15 picks in this year's draft including the 33rd pick after the Smith trade to KC. They have a propensity to evaluate and draft well. Next year's SB champs.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

     

     

    Another perspective . . . the Pats have managed the cap well, but have they also managed the talent well? And is that $25 million in cap space enough to make up for current deficiencies on offense and defense? I'm a bit on the fence myself, but it's still an open question whether the Pats have truly had the talent it takes to be a strong postseason contender.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8998804/nfl-patriots-dynasty-decline
     ______________
    Update: I see that the Chadiha article has already been mentioned.

    You can debate his conclusions, but I do think the talent level, especially

    on defense, deserves to be questioned. The diversity of the offensive

    weapons has also been an issue at times.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

    Pats have been in prime position entering the playoffs for the last 3 years.

    At the time, Steelers were the only real threat in the AFC in 2010...and the Pats smoked them earlier in the year.

    Pats really only had to win one real game to get to the Super Bowl last season...

    And this year, after the gifted bye and choke job of the Broncos, Patriots had a decent road back again.

     

    Pats have been primed for the pas three years. Their rosters may not have been superb, but that really goes for the competition as well. It's not like we've lost against dominant teams.

     

    Don't care about these offseason evaluations. Patriots chances will still probably come down to Brady's level of play in the playoffs, and Gronk's health


    Agree.

    After beating up on 2nd tier teams all year, it will come down again to be able to perform at their potential against good / smashmouth teams. SF, Seattle being likely SB opponents if NE gets there means TB and BB and co need to figure this out.

    MAybe I just blurted out the problem...to beat a smash mouth agressive team you have to smash them back.. finness and strategy only get you so far. They "figure" things out better than any team in the league . Once in a while that is not good enough, in those cases you have to be aggressive and force your will.

    I think the last 6 important losses have been to teams that simply smashed the Pats harder than the PAts smashed them.


    With all this cap money the pats need to bring in some terror.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    I've been gone since the extremely dissapointing "team" loss in the afc game, but I have to say that Rusty is 100% correct with his take and Carl Banks agrees with the author of his link as well. http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4740434/banks-view-of-patriots-outlook

    The lack of talent argument is the worst view point I have heard from fans on this forum. BB the GM gets blasted while BB the coach(and more importantly his staff) gets a pass for our VERY disappointing post season outcomes? It is a chicken/egg argument but the fact is that BB has managed the cap and put his team in position to compete for a SB every year since 2001(2002 injury plagued year wasn't a great team)

    We are sitting at 25 million in room and are coming off a SB and AFC championship game appearance in the last 2 years. NFL analysts like Kirwan, Carl Banks, and a slew of others are 100% accurate in their depictions of the Pats situation going forward. We should all be very excited about this off season and the 2014 season.

    We just need to coach better imo. If a team can average 35 ppg and lead the LG in turnovers the entire season but then gets spanked at home in the afc game, and spanked in the SB the year before then that team was not prepared and or not coached well enough to execute in a pressure situation. We all saw that this team can play as the best team in the LG on more then 1 occasion, but we are clearly having problems on the biggest stages. This has nothing to do with the GM and everything to do with a coaching staff's inability to prepare its team.

    Until we figure it out, it doesn't matter how many pro bowlers we have, we will continue to choke in SB's and AFC games. We won Sb's 10 years ago, because we were the best coached team in the LG on a yearly basis. This is a "coaches" LG. The loss of several coordinators has had a negative impact on this team, and unfortunately we must wait for guys like Patricia, McD Pepper and others to develop. i would love to see BB add RAC but realize that probably won't happen.

    Anyway, I agree with the OP and several brilliant NFL minds who accurately portray the situation BB the GM has put this organization into moving forward. I can't wait to see what happens...again!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nomadfan. Show nomadfan's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    rameakap

    Even the expanded cap space of the Pats have right now cannot accomodate your list of free agent acquistions.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    So now the argument is that BB is the world's greatest GM, who has assembled a fabulous collection of talent (guys like Marquice Cole and Kyle Arrington and Kyle Love and the great Julian Edelman) but who apparently presides over a wholesale coaching failure, having a staff of incompetent assistants and a mistake-prone QB he can't control?  The Patriots haven't won in the post season because of poor coaching?

    Okey-dokey.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    Pro, the team that won the super bowl lost 4 of their last 5 regular season games. The year before that the super bowl winner lost 5 of their last 8. Both teams barely made the playoffs. Were they really that more talented than the Patriots?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    rameakap

    Even the expanded cap space of the Pats have right now cannot accomodate your list of free agent acquistions.

      

    So 5 guys can't have salary cap hits of 3-5 million next year with 5 million to sign draft picks and fill out the roster?

    Just b/c they want 5/40, doesn't mean they will get that (Wes and Talib especially), and it doesn't mean they would all count on next years cap the average amount of their deals, more like the average amount of their signing bonus + the veteran min.

    Wes 4/30 w/ 15 guaranteed, really sees like 3 and 20 of that, with a cap hit of 3.5m next year

    Byrd 5/37.5 w/ 15 GT, sees 4/24 of that, cap hit of 4.5m next year

    Bennett or Avril - 5/40, 18 GT, sees 4/30 of that, cap hit of 5m next year

    Vollmer or Jake Long - same deal as Wes

    Talib - same deal as Bodden, 4/22, 10 guaranteed, 3.5m cap hit next year

    5 million in space remaining

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    rameakap

    Even the expanded cap space of the Pats have right now cannot accomodate your list of free agent acquistions.

      

    So 5 guys can't have salary cap hits of 3-5 million next year with 5 million to sign draft picks and fill out the roster?

    Just b/c they want 5/40, doesn't mean they will get that (Wes and Talib especially), and it doesn't mean they would all count on next years cap the average amount of their deals, more like the average amount of their signing bonus + the veteran min.

    Wes 4/30 w/ 15 guaranteed, really sees like 3 and 20 of that, with a cap hit of 3.5m next year

    Byrd 5/37.5 w/ 15 GT, sees 4/24 of that, cap hit of 4.5m next year

    Bennett or Avril - 5/40, 18 GT, sees 4/30 of that, cap hit of 5m next year

    Vollmer or Jake Long - same deal as Wes

    Talib - same deal as Bodden, 4/22, 10 guaranteed, 3.5m cap hit next year

    5 million in space remaining



    byrd got tagged

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    10 days to start of free agency and we will see what goodies BB brings to the roster and  improve the team and thus continue to validate the premise that the Pats are in a good position in the AFC.

     



    Anything less than the '03 or '07 offseason will be a dissapointment to me

     

    If the pats grab 2-3 top free agents while keeping their own it will go a long way to making me excited about the season. When you bring in Rosie Colvin/Rodney Harrison one offseason or Moss/Adlius Thomas another, fans have the right to be excited.

    Get Jairus Byrd, Dashon Goldon or Ed Reed while keeping Talib. Add Henry Melton or Randy Starks to the interior or Cliff Avril or Michael Bennett to the edge. Get Welker at a discount (6-7m per year 3-4 years) and only move on from Vollmer if you add a cheaper LT (Long, Smith, Albert) and move Solder over to the right side

    Do all that and draft the front 7 player at a position you didn't add in free agency and a big play WR and THEN I will be REAL excited.



    melton tagged, bennett signed i beleive

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    Pro, the team that won the super bowl lost 4 of their last 5 regular season games. The year before that the super bowl winner lost 5 of their last 8. Both teams barely made the playoffs. Were they really that more talented than the Patriots?



    I think so.  The Pats do as well as they do because they are so well coached, not because they have great talent.  If you read this thread, you'd think some fans believe Belichick is a great GM but a terrible coach.  That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard . .  .

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    In response to nomadfan's comment:

     

    rameakap

    Even the expanded cap space of the Pats have right now cannot accomodate your list of free agent acquistions.

      

    So 5 guys can't have salary cap hits of 3-5 million next year with 5 million to sign draft picks and fill out the roster?

    Just b/c they want 5/40, doesn't mean they will get that (Wes and Talib especially), and it doesn't mean they would all count on next years cap the average amount of their deals, more like the average amount of their signing bonus + the veteran min.

    Wes 4/30 w/ 15 guaranteed, really sees like 3 and 20 of that, with a cap hit of 3.5m next year

    Byrd 5/37.5 w/ 15 GT, sees 4/24 of that, cap hit of 4.5m next year

    Bennett or Avril - 5/40, 18 GT, sees 4/30 of that, cap hit of 5m next year

    Vollmer or Jake Long - same deal as Wes

    Talib - same deal as Bodden, 4/22, 10 guaranteed, 3.5m cap hit next year

    5 million in space remaining

     



    byrd got tagged

     



    DARN

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Pats In Prime Position In AFC

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to dapats1281's comment:

     

    Pats have been in prime position entering the playoffs for the last 3 years.

    At the time, Steelers were the only real threat in the AFC in 2010...and the Pats smoked them earlier in the year.

    Pats really only had to win one real game to get to the Super Bowl last season...

    And this year, after the gifted bye and choke job of the Broncos, Patriots had a decent road back again.

     

    Pats have been primed for the pas three years. Their rosters may not have been superb, but that really goes for the competition as well. It's not like we've lost against dominant teams.

     

    Don't care about these offseason evaluations. Patriots chances will still probably come down to Brady's level of play in the playoffs, and Gronk's health

     



    Dude, that makes no sense. NE started 4 rookies in 2010 on D. They were clearly committing to a rebuild on the fly.

     

    2011 there was a lockout. The only teams in a prime positiion into the lockout were veteran clubs.

    You're wrong.  How can a team that is rebuilding with kids on D or on offense, trading away MOss, changing the offense a bit, etc, be in "prime position". They weren't.

    They were in good position because of BB's leadership and Brady, but that weren't loading up for the SB in 2010 and 2011.

    Prime position is many teams missing their windows in the AFC the last 2-3 years, Balt barely caught theirs this year, and BB already having built his base back with 26 mil under the cap to let the market come to him. Some of those teams totally miscalculated the tv revenue which is what I warned about out of the lockout.

    Here we are.

    Yes, this position right here in 2013 and 2014 is clearly far stronger than 2010 or 2011. It's not even debatable.

     



    Being in a prime position entering the season is different than being in a prime position entering the playoffs.

    You can say the 2010 Pats were in a rebuilding mode, but they beat the Packers, Bears, Steelers, Jets, Ravens, Colts...they were 6-1 against the playoff teams.

    I don't care how much experience the players had coming into the season. They were the 1 seed and beat all the good teams in the playoffs, they were in a good position.

    2011, they drew an extremely easy schedule. Got Tim Tebow in the divisional round and drew a team that gave up more points than they scored during the regular season. Patriots weren't a juggernaut that year, but neither was their competition. I'd say that 2011 team wouldnt have made it to the Super Bowl in most years...but they drew a favorable schedule, which put them in prime position

     
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