pat's offensive line

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : Good point. Plus the OC needs to revert to screens, run game, and some TE passes to wear out the d-line.
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]

    I note, (though it is only preseason), that in Detroit, the running game did not work, the Lions were sitting on the screen game because its a Patriot's signature and the tight ends were pretty much the passing game.  Nothing worked as it should and the game had a feel very similar to the play-off loss to the YETS.  Tom Brady had that look on his face that says, "it's not going to be a good day"...  Tom knows when it's working and when its not and he shows it.  I think better prep and execution is required, not your prescription which is a description of the existing PATS offense.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfaninswflorida. Show Patsfaninswflorida's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line


    I do think the addition of Riddley and Vereen will help this O-line because these guys both have great hands and from what I've seen from Riddley the dude can bounce and gain yards when it looks like he's running into a brick wall.

    I know it's early to be saying this.... But I think Riddley is a game changer that the Pats have not had in very long time.  A shifty back with great hands can make an O-line look much better than they really are...

    ... and add in the blocking from some of our big tight ends to help out... maybe use Solder as Guard....  things start looking pretty good....




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    Brady knew going in that he couldn't hold onto the ball for long against Detroit and said so publicly.  I agree with Dessalines observation regarding Det sitting on the screens.  They were also applying tight coverage to the wideouts hence TB holding the ball.  If this game serves as grist for the training mill then it will have served one of the primary functions of a preseason game.

    Again, I think much too much is being made of the Detroit game.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]Brady knew going in that he couldn't hold onto the ball for long against Detroit and said so publicly.  I agree with Dessalines observation regarding Det sitting on the screens.  They were also applying tight coverage to the wideouts hence TB holding the ball.  If this game serves as grist for the training mill then it will have served one of the primary functions of a preseason game. Again, I think much too much is being made of the Detroit game.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]

    Agreed.

    These games don't count, and there are many reasons why they don't count. They're for assessing young players to see if they can make the team; for getting players used to "live" contact again after 7 or 8 months away from that; and above all else, for practicing and working on things.

    Just like it was foolish to be starting "19-0" threads after the Pats creamed a Tampa Bay team that clearly was unprepared for New England's level of intensity that night, it's just as foolish to be launching into "sky is falling" scenarios because the reverse was true in Detroit last Saturday.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : Agreed. These games don't count, and there are many reasons why they don't count. They're for assessing young players to see if they can make the team; for getting players used to "live" contact again after 7 or 8 months away from that; and above all else, for practicing and working on things. Just like it was foolish to be starting "19-0" threads after the Pats creamed a Tampa Bay team that clearly was unprepared for New England's level of intensity that night, it's just as foolish to be launching into "sky is falling" scenarios because the reverse was true in Detroit last Saturday.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]


    This is Very true, but still doesnt answer the question as to why the O-line looks awful in the playoffs.  Alll the rust is off at that point.  If our playcalling doesnt continue to go back towards ball control and Brady falls in love w/his weapons and passing first it will be another early exit. I dont know about anyone else, but I have grown tired of watching us dominate the regular season only to be brougth crashing back down to earth in January when the going gets tough, we start throwing!!!...thats a bad formula and one we saw the Colts use for years w/no playoff success, ironically the year Manning swallowed his pride and ran the ball more as well as checking down to Addai(see AFC Ch.game 06') is when they finally won one and we took over as the Paper Champs...I wish Bill would reverse this switcharoo he did in 06'.....smdh!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfaninswflorida. Show Patsfaninswflorida's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : This is Very true, but still doesnt answer the question as to why the O-line looks awful in the playoffs.  Alll the rust is off at that point.  If our playcalling doesnt continue to go back towards ball control and Brady falls in love w/his weapons and passing first it will be another early exit. I dont know about anyone else, but I have grown tired of watching us dominate the regular season only to be brougth crashing back down to earth in January when the going gets tough, we start throwing!!!...thats a bad formula and one we saw the Colts use for years w/no playoff success, ironically the year Manning swallowed his pride and ran the ball more as well as checking down to Addai(see AFC Ch.game 06') is when they finally won one and we took over as the Paper Champs...I wish Bill would reverse this switcharoo he did in 06'.....smdh!
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]


    As I just said a couple of post's ago.... I think BB HAS done something to fix this problem by drafting TWO RB's this year.

    The Pat's have not had a decent running game in years and I think that changes this year. 

    The dynamics change huge when you have multiple RB's that can catch and that have explosive speed and are shifty like Riddley and Vereen.






     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jsmith54. Show Jsmith54's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    people are really making the pre season loss to the giant a much bigger deal then it is. They played it like their championship and the patriots didnt come to play. every dog has its day, ya know. the o line is fine other then solder needs to be out their he is a top 5 linemen on this team and if he can learn to play inside maybe RG that would be ideal.  when the regular season loses and they struggle then make a big deal out of it. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    Well, I thought that as well, Like I said, i hope we continue our backwards evolution back to the Weis days, but having running backs and using them is 2 different things.  Case in point. We had our 1st 1,000 yard rusher last year since 05 or something and Benny didnt get any carries come playoff time!! Why, because  we had Danny in there who is the better pass catcher because we decided passing was better than running.

    Look, I want to say its fixed too, but its not that easy and I'll beleive it when I see it.  I admit we havent had a talent , young backfield like this before, but we also had in Kevin Smith for a workout yesterday because before week 1 we are already b anged up at the running back position as usual...so lets first make sure Ridley and Vareen will be available before we say they get the bulk of the workload... fingers crossed!

    Oh and we also had a healthy Freddy T(by his accounts) that was kept on the roster all year w/ an injury only to be activated for the playoffs and get like one carry....so explain that one if you can to me as well....Havign the horses and using them are 2 diff. things....call O'bie and put in a request
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]people are really making the pre season loss to the giant a much bigger deal then it is. They played it like their championship and the patriots didnt come to play. every dog has its day, ya know. the o line is fine other then solder needs to be out their he is a top 5 linemen on this team and if he can learn to play inside maybe RG that would be ideal.  when the regular season loses and they struggle then make a big deal out of it. 
    Posted by Jsmith54[/QUOTE]

    Ok, yeah, we will listen to you when you know what team we played....lol - The Giants??....what are we talking about here?...We play the giants this week.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : This is Very true, but still doesnt answer the question as to why the O-line looks awful in the playoffs.  Alll the rust is off at that point.  If our playcalling doesnt continue to go back towards ball control and Brady falls in love w/his weapons and passing first it will be another early exit. I dont know about anyone else, but I have grown tired of watching us dominate the regular season only to be brougth crashing back down to earth in January when the going gets tough, we start throwing!!!...thats a bad formula and one we saw the Colts use for years w/no playoff success, ironically the year Manning swallowed his pride and ran the ball more as well as checking down to Addai(see AFC Ch.game 06') is when they finally won one and we took over as the Paper Champs...I wish Bill would reverse this switcharoo he did in 06'.....smdh!
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    I appreciate your concern but I think the transition is almost complete.

    I don't know why they did what they did on Saturday night--kept throwing it and letting Brady get clobbered--but I would hope that they realize that their very best games offensively over the last couple of years have come when they've had a balanced attack.

    I'll stress again that they don't have to run the ball WELL, they just have to run it more frequently. The 2003 team averaged 3.4 YPC on the ground, and yet the run/pass balance was strikingly close if you look at the total offensive plays the team ran during that regular season. Weis would only go four-and five-wide when it was part of the game plan against a certain type of team they were facing; it wasn't the main offensive philosophy.

    I hope they continue to revert back to that approach.

    Again, you don't have to run the ball WELL; you just have to run it enough to make the other team think about it.

     
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In the playoffs last year, Brady had an injured foot which limited his mobility.  Look back at the film.  They drove down the field in the first half without a problem.  He threw an interception to kill the drive.  They were in the red zone and Crumpler dropped the ball for a sure touchdown.  Chung fumbling the punt was the final straw.  After that, they changed to the pass only offense which put the nail in the coffin. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    I loved that 2003 team.  The best Illustration of our offense that year was the one in Houston where Kevin Faulk went off.  Dude had a monster game running and catching the rock and was juking guys left and right.  We had Faulk and and old A.Smith.  Believe me I know you dont need much, thats why I balked at the notion of having more backs mean we run more.  The O-Coordinator still has to take his head out his b utt and call a good string of plays to get your offense in a rythm.  Im still trying to figure out why maroney didnt get more touches in SB 42, when his 1st run went for about 12 yards and then Shotgun Spread (rusty's favorite) the whole rest of the game...banging our head against the wall.

    I think we miss the game managing Brady that wasnt trusted to do as much.  Every since becoming a star QB, we havent been able to resist passing...20 mill/year will do that to you..  Sorry guys...dont see this changing, as much as I want another Lombardi..  :(

    in 03 and 04, we won with a bruising running game complimented by 2 good(not great) Wr's in Branch and Givens who could run great routes and a possesion guy in Brown who caught every ball that came his way....Now we have Brady at the Circus having fun to the detriment of the team in the long run... = no running game
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]I loved that 2003 team.  The best Illustration of our offense that year was the one in Houston where Kevin Faulk went off.  Dude had a monster game running and catching the rock and was juking guys left and right.  We had Faulk and and old A.Smith.  Believe me I know you dont need much, thats why I balked at the notion of having more backs mean we run more.  The O-Coordinator still has to take his head out his b utt and call a good string of plays to get your offense in a rythm.  Im still trying to figure out why maroney didnt get more touches in SB 42, when his 1st run went for about 12 yards and then Shotgun Spread (rusty's favorite) the whole rest of the game...banging our head against the wall. I think we miss the game managing Brady that wasnt trusted to do as much.  Every since becoming a star QB, we havent been able to resist passing...20 mill/year will do that to you..  Sorry guys...dont see this changing, as much as I want another Lombardi..  :( in 03 and 04, we won with a bruising running game complimented by 2 good(not great) Wr's in Branch and Givens who could run great routes and a possesion guy in Brown who caught every ball that came his way....Now we have Brady at the Circus having fun to the detriment of the team in the long run... = no running game
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    I think it's got less to do with Brady wanting to be "the star" and more to do with what happened that day at Indy in January 2007. That 2006 team ran the ball a lot (out of necessity because of the below-average receivers). They had to throw it more late in the season because of injuries to Maroney and Dillon, but that was more of a running team than a passing team, by and large.

    When they blew that 18-point lead (with a big assist from the zebras), and lost the game, with one of the signature moments of the loss being Caldwell's second dropped pass (showing his "big eyes" on the replay), that's when they decided, "if we can't beat them, we'll join them." And that's when Welker, Stallworth, Moss and the "bombs away" squad was born.

    They finally began to transition away from that last year, but they haven't gone all the way yet.

    Hopefully they will try to run the ball more when the real games start.

    Brady's always been a "team first, win first" guy; his own need for self-gratification through putting up big numbers and MVPs are not something to worry about for Pats fans IMO. I don't believe he thinks that way (Dan Marino did, and that's one of the main reasons why he never won a Super Bowl).
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : That's right. And it's not just the total of runs, but how they are used in the process of the calls during a game. If you run it 20 times, it's irrelevant if you only did it 18 times in the second half if you lose. In SB 42 Brady threw it 48 times! Ridiculous. I think BB wanted to see where his spread/pass first offense was against a different D in preseason.  It's the only explanation.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I still get irritated with McDaniels when I see that "48 attempts" next to Brady's stat line for that Super Bowl.

    It was a 17-14 game for God's sake! The QB attempted 48 passes????

    I know people say, "the Giants stopped the run, too," but that's not really true. Maroney had at least three runs that I recall of 8 yards or better in that game. If McDaniels had come out and run the ball more in the second half--even if it was ineffective--the Giants' defensive linemen would eventually have been putting their hands on their hips by the 4th quarter. That's how it works.

    They need to run it 25+ times per game this season, I think. Whether it's effective or not, it will still make a world of difference (positive difference) by the end of the season.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    I think it is also reasonable to include that a coach,  player or a group of players (such as the o-line) collectively can have a bad game. The Pats o-line in my opinion had 2 bad games last year...the Browns and The Jets in the playoffs. Other than those 2 games, the o-line played very, very well. Same group of players this year, albeit a year older, minus Alge (big hit imo) but plus Solder.
    I do hope BB gives Solder every 3rd series resting Light and maybe Vollmer so that Solder does come on quickly thru game experience.  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    We need Cannon to play this year...he is the Road warrior we need on the line.  Our line is good because they are all athletic enough to pull and also pass protect w/good feet, but their weakness is SIZE. We dont have any big boys at guard.  and Koppen is smallish.  When you want to run and run well, look at K.C's hall of fame line they had. A bunch of big ugly s.o.b's and we got a versatile line that can do both , but prioritize pass protection more and are overpowered when a stout D-line comes to town.  This is where you run it anyway just for the defense to stay honest or you go MAX protect and let your 2 targets get open..but answering with the shotgun spread is why we have been home in January the last couple years.... 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]We need Cannon to play this year...he is the Road warrior we need on the line.  Our line is good because they are all athletic enough to pull and also pass protect w/good feet, but their weakness is SIZE. We dont have any big boys at guard.  and Koppen is smallish.  When you want to run and run well, look at K.C's hall of fame line they had. A bunch of big ugly s.o.b's and we got a versatile line that can do both , but prioritize pass protection more and are overpowered when a stout D-line comes to town.  This is where you run it anyway just for the defense to stay honest or you go MAX protect and let your 2 targets get open..but answering with the shotgun spread is why we have been home in January the last couple years.... 
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]
    Cannon has potential as he is huge for a guard. But even if healthy, he is not yet ready to pass black in the NFL
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : Cannon has potential as he is huge for a guard. But even if healthy, he is not yet ready to pass black in the NFL
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]


    thats great...maybe it will force them to run more....lol
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

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    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : thats great...maybe it will force them to run more....lol
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]
    lets not lose sight of the fact that the stadium is punched out every Sunday wanting to see T Brady spin the ball. Mr Kraft has said this numerous times himself
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxpowers034. Show maxpowers034's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    Here's a good article to help you
    http://www.60maxpowero.com/patriots/content/patriots-offense-looked-offensive-wrong-way
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line


    I don't think true fans care how we win games. I'd happily sit in the stands and watch the Pats run the ball 75% of the time if we won games.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : This is it. In the early Brady (Weiss) years the Pats loaded up with screens.  They are essential against strong, attacking front 7's.  After Weiss' departure they drifted more and more toward downfield passing.  Plus, they have had no effective edge rusher that was a threat to take it all the way since - well since a looong time ago. Count me as one who believes that this O-Line is no worse than what was sewed together in 01-04. However, when your OC and offensive game plan is inflexible and predictable it doesn't matter much who you have up front.  Did anyone else see BB appear to be irate with O'Brien during the game?  This is after O'Brien nearly ran out the clock in the Jets playoff game when they needed to go hurry-up. The biggest problem I see is with O'Brien.
    Posted by nyjoseph[/QUOTE]

    obrian cant hold weiss' jock.
    and bb seems to be shying away form established coaches (i posted aabout this  at length last year).
    on a related note,
    if weiss could go back to oc in college, he couldve gone back to oc in the pros.

    we wouldve been better in last year and this year wiht a better oc. no way around that.
    there are many here that dont see it or dont agree. i dont think they  have the eyes to, just not their specialty.  (please note, this is nto to say that we will never have good plays or a never have a good game plan, but that where obrian is lacking it can cost us in critical games.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : THE  OFFENSIVE  LINE  IS  GOOD  ENOUGH  TO  WIN  REGULAR  SEASON  GAMES.  IN  THE  PLAYOFFS, THE  PATS  HAVE  TO  FACE  ELiTE  DEFENSIVE  FRONTS.  The  PATS  inept  offensive  line  has  been  the  primary  reason  for  the  SB  loss  to  the  Giants, the  Ravens'  09  playoff  loss  and  last  year's  loss  to  the  Jets.  SOME  PATS  fans  can  talk  all  they  want  about  schemes  and  defend  the  OL  saying  Brady  had  36  TDs  and  4  interceptions.  The  fact  remains  the  PLAYOFFS  ARE  A  DIFFERENT  GAME.  Koppen  is  undersized  and  loses  most  one  on  one  battles.  Connolly  is  an  adequate  backup  guard  for  a  championship  team.  Our  OL  not  only  can't  protect  TB  against  elite  defensive  fronts, they  can't  generate  a  RUN  game  when  we  need  it.  Our  OL  definitely  needs  some  upgrades, preferably  before  the  season  starts.  Ideally, Solder  and  Cannon  can  step  in, later  in  the  season.  I  believe  BB  will  also  try  to  upgrade  the  OL  through  FA  this  year.  If  the  PATS  can  somehow  upgrade  the  C  and/or  RG  positions, the  JETS  are  toast.  Also, with  the  upgrades, the  PATS  would  even  be  favored  over  Green  Bay.  I  hope  BB  makes  a  move  soon.  THE  WINDOW  IS  CLOSING.     
    Posted by zeitgeist49[/QUOTE]

    zeit, youre not allowed to call it like you see it (like it is). didnt you know?
     

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