1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ngcfla. Show ngcfla's posts

    pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 11:01 AM EDT

    Looking for other Pat fans opinions, on the offensive line, who looked bad. The Lions put a lot of pressure on Brady.  Would really like to know what your thoughts are. 
     

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 6:39 PM EDT

    They stunk, and give credit to Detroits d-line which is pretty much all they got, oh and saw very tall WRs. Otherwise our boys didn't show to protect like they did last year. It'll get fixed.
     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 6:56 PM EDT

    After reflecting a bit I feel Brady really needs to do a better job adapting to such situation at this point in his career.  Yes they were not great but Brady should of went to a quick 3 step drop passing attack, like the Lions.  This would of saved him the beating he was taking and gave us a better chance. 

    It's about playing smart and realizing the 5/7 step drops and the time consuming gimmick plays arn't working.  If that's what the Offensive coordinator is calling then change it up in the huddle or at the line.
     

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    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 6:58 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    After reflecting a bit I feel Brady really needs to better job adapt to such situation at this point in his career.  Yes they were not great but Brady should of went to a quick 3 step drop passing attack, like the Lions.  This would of saved him the beating he was taking and gave us a better chance.  It's about playing smart and realizing the 5/7 step drops and the time consuming gimmick plays arn't working.  If that's what the Offensive coordinator is calling then change it up in the huddle or at the line.
    Posted by tcal2-


    Good point. Plus the OC needs to revert to screens, run game, and some TE passes to wear out the d-line.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 7:09 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : Good point. Plus the OC needs to revert to screens, run game, and some TE passes to wear out the d-line.
    Posted by kansaspatriot


    Unfortunately it seem like O'Brien is and has been incapeable of deviating from his original game plans kp. 
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 10:17 PM EDT

    "Unfortunately it seem like O'Brien is and has been incapeable of deviating from his original game plans"

    agreed and posted same.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dmcpatsfan. Show dmcpatsfan's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 10:24 PM EDT

    I really have to agree...the OC seemslike he has absolutly no clue how to make adjustments when the game plan is not working....zero imagination with tons of talent that can do just about anything....I'm not impressed with him at all & haven't been for a while....
    I'm also frustrated with brady...if things are going great he's ok but he hasn't been his cool collective self under preassure...more like the deer in the headlights & unable to make a quick decision anymore....seems to get rattled way easier...
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 10:56 PM EDT

    Koppen is not big enough to handle big athletic guys pushing up the middle.

    He is a major liability against good DT, cannot handle man-on-man battles.

    Connolly...after good stint at LG last year, he's got a long way to go at RG.

    Ohrenberger........goodness help us if he is called into action.

    As Tcal2 said, Brady et al need to adjust to quicker drops/releases.
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/30/2011 11:03 PM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    Honestly, I would check Nick's threads on these topics. The ones where he uses a lot of exclamation points, channeling Tony Mazz on cocaine. Just kidding, Nick. But, seriously, check those and you'll see differences of opinions in those. http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3a903e5449-f34a-4372-a27b-723812e80c98
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing


    I just don't think that Connolly starts at guard on a championship team

    We shall see.
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 1:32 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    I really have to agree...the OC seemslike he has absolutly no clue how to make adjustments when the game plan is not working....zero imagination with tons of talent that can do just about anything....I'm not impressed with him at all & haven't been for a while.... I'm also frustrated with brady...if things are going great he's ok but he hasn't been his cool collective self under preassure...more like the deer in the headlights & unable to make a quick decision anymore....seems to get rattled way easier...
    Posted by dmcpatsfan


    i noticed in jet playoff game last year after the play where he nearly had his arm sheared off behind his head he appeared timid for the rest of the game. there was a similar play against detroit. seems like hes running scared for a reason: hes about to be literally dismembered.
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 6:39 AM EDT

    Brady like every other QB to ever play doesn't play as well against good defenses.  That's why they are good defenses.  I can guarantee you that Brady will have bad games for the rest of his career sometimes.  It's not new, he got one TD in the first SB, and they have consistently won playoff games through the years scoring less than 25 points.  This team has become so Brady-centric that unless he spots them a 2 TD lead they fold.  On a good team the defense steps up when the offense struggles, and the offense steps up when the defense struggles.

    Last years Pats team had one of the highest scoring offenses of the last 10 years.  Brady has bailed this team out of some games they had no business winning like the Buffalo game when they couldn't stop anybody and gave up 30 points.  Time for the defense to take it upon their shoulders to win a game like they used to do.

    The offensive line is good enough to win.  If they face a premier D-line will they struggle to score more than 20 or 25 points?  Yeah, but on a team that is a true contender that's enough to win.  If they rely on 35 points every game to win than they will not be in the playoffs long.
     

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    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 6:58 AM EDT

    This has been a Jeckle/Hyde overrated O-line for a while now. Strangely, it seems the more pro-bowls they have the less reliable they are. I don't see much changing. But that would be okay, if we had a major league D. We probably don't have that D, so expect winning the division and exiting the playoffs rather quickly again.

    Ahhh, but if the genius has fixed the D, we will be formidable and run very deep in the playoffs.

    In an odd way BB and Albert are in similar boats. They are both living off past glory and have something to prove whether anybody wants to admit that or not. Maybe they can help each other regain their former excellence.
     

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    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 7:55 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : Good point. Plus the OC needs to revert to screens, run game, and some TE passes to wear out the d-line.
    Posted by kansaspatriot


    This is it.

    In the early Brady (Weiss) years the Pats loaded up with screens.  They are essential against strong, attacking front 7's.  After Weiss' departure they drifted more and more toward downfield passing.  Plus, they have had no effective edge rusher that was a threat to take it all the way since - well since a looong time ago.

    Count me as one who believes that this O-Line is no worse than what was sewed together in 01-04.

    However, when your OC and offensive game plan is inflexible and predictable it doesn't matter much who you have up front. 

    Did anyone else see BB appear to be irate with O'Brien during the game?  This is after O'Brien nearly ran out the clock in the Jets playoff game when they needed to go hurry-up.

    The biggest problem I see is with O'Brien.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 8:42 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    Brady like every other QB to ever play doesn't play as well against good defenses.  That's why they are good defenses.  I can guarantee you that Brady will have bad games for the rest of his career sometimes.  It's not new, he got one TD in the first SB, and they have consistently won playoff games through the years scoring less than 25 points.  This team has become so Brady-centric that unless he spots them a 2 TD lead they fold.  On a good team the defense steps up when the offense struggles, and the offense steps up when the defense struggles. Last years Pats team had one of the highest scoring offenses of the last 10 years.  Brady has bailed this team out of some games they had no business winning like the Buffalo game when they couldn't stop anybody and gave up 30 points.  Time for the defense to take it upon their shoulders to win a game like they used to do. The offensive line is good enough to win.  If they face a premier D-line will they struggle to score more than 20 or 25 points?  Yeah, but on a team that is a true contender that's enough to win.  If they rely on 35 points every game to win than they will not be in the playoffs long.
    Posted by shenanigan

    THE  OFFENSIVE  LINE  IS  GOOD  ENOUGH  TO  WIN  REGULAR  SEASON  GAMES.  IN  THE  PLAYOFFS, THE  PATS  HAVE  TO  FACE  ELiTE  DEFENSIVE  FRONTS.  The  PATS  inept  offensive  line  has  been  the  primary  reason  for  the  SB  loss  to  the  Giants, the  Ravens'  09  playoff  loss  and  last  year's  loss  to  the  Jets.  SOME  PATS  fans  can  talk  all  they  want  about  schemes  and  defend  the  OL  saying  Brady  had  36  TDs  and  4  interceptions.  The  fact  remains  the  PLAYOFFS  ARE  A  DIFFERENT  GAME.  Koppen  is  undersized  and  loses  most  one  on  one  battles.  Connolly  is  an  adequate  backup  guard  for  a  championship  team.  Our  OL  not  only  can't  protect  TB  against  elite  defensive  fronts, they  can't  generate  a  RUN  game  when  we  need  it.  Our  OL  definitely  needs  some  upgrades, preferably  before  the  season  starts.  Ideally, Solder  and  Cannon  can  step  in, later  in  the  season.  I  believe  BB  will  also  try  to  upgrade  the  OL  through  FA  this  year.  If  the  PATS  can  somehow  upgrade  the  C  and/or  RG  positions, the  JETS  are  toast.  Also, with  the  upgrades, the  PATS  would  even  be  favored  over  Green  Bay.  I  hope  BB  makes  a  move  soon.  THE  WINDOW  IS  CLOSING.     
     

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    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 8:59 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : THE  OFFENSIVE  LINE  IS  GOOD  ENOUGH  TO  WIN  REGULAR  SEASON  GAMES.  IN  THE  PLAYOFFS, THE  PATS  HAVE  TO  FACE  ELiTE  DEFENSIVE  FRONTS.  The  PATS  inept  offensive  line  has  been  the  primary  reason  for  the  SB  loss  to  the  Giants, the  Ravens'  09  playoff  loss  and  last  year's  loss  to  the  Jets.  SOME  PATS  fans  can  talk  all  they  want  about  schemes  and  defend  the  OL  saying  Brady  had  36  TDs  and  4  interceptions.  The  fact  remains  the  PLAYOFFS  ARE  A  DIFFERENT  GAME.  Koppen  is  undersized  and  loses  most  one  on  one  battles.  Connolly  is  an  adequate  backup  guard  for  a  championship  team.  Our  OL  not  only  can't  protect  TB  against  elite  defensive  fronts, they  can't  generate  a  RUN  game  when  we  need  it.  Our  OL  definitely  needs  some  upgrades, preferably  before  the  season  starts.  Ideally, Solder  and  Cannon  can  step  in, later  in  the  season.  I  believe  BB  will  also  try  to  upgrade  the  OL  through  FA  this  year.  If  the  PATS  can  somehow  upgrade  the  C  and/or  RG  positions, the  JETS  are  toast.  Also, with  the  upgrades, the  PATS  would  even  be  favored  over  Green  Bay.  I  hope  BB  makes  a  move  soon.  THE  WINDOW  IS  CLOSING.     
    Posted by zeitgeist49

    Oh good, another chicken little on the board. 
     

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    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 9:16 AM EDT

    It is the same personel that last year graded out as one of the top 3 OL's in the league. Simply put, they didn't come to play against the Lions.
    Each player of course does certain things better than other tings, no change from what we have always known:
    Connelly-does not play well in confined space as his foot work is slow for a guard. Will get over powered as he is frequently off balance. Best when pulling or out in front of a screen
    Mankins-is weak defending a defenders first quick step over Mankins left shoulder.  Usually is beaten on his left outside shoulder. Arguably the best run blocking guard in the league
    Koppen-is smallish for a C and is frenquently over powered
    Vollmer-I thought he played worse than Connelly/Ohrnberg. Suseptable to the fast first step to the outside. Plays high and is when beat it is usually to his right outside shoulder with the DL coming "under" Vollmers shoulder.
    Light-IMO the most well rounded OL playing for the Pats. Not outstanding in any aspect, but very good in every aspect of LT. 
    Solder- I have been impressed with what I have seen. I had prefered Costanzo, but Solder IMO has an upside greater than Vollmer. Give him 2-3 years and he could be potential pro bowler 
     

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    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 9:21 AM EDT

    I wouldn't draw too many conclusions about how this O-line will perform over the course of the season based on one pre-season game in which they were outplayed by a talented and clearly fired up D-line. 
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfaninswflorida. Show Patsfaninswflorida's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 9:30 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : Good point. Plus the OC needs to revert to screens, run game, and some TE passes to wear out the d-line.
    Posted by kansaspatriot


    Totally agree...  Brady was hanging on to the ball way too long and that was bringing even more pressure from the D-line of Detroit.  If Brady started getting rid of the ball quickly on some screens and quick passed to the TE's that would have forced them to hold up a bit.

    It seems like this is one area of weakness that I think should be easily correctable....  especially with the numerous targets that Brady has to work with.



     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SouthSt. Show SouthSt's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 9:46 AM EDT

    Pats need to emphasize and remain committed to the running game more

    run-blocking is a much more offensive effort for the offensive line vs the defensive/passive posture of pass-blocking . . . and it sets a tone / mindset

    if we can move the chains with a running game, all else will fall into place

    if we constantly go to the passing game, eventually the defense pins back their ears and throws the kitchen sink at us -- and that scenario has had a tendency to kill us in certain 2nd halves when we seem to lose complete control of the line of scrimmage
     

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    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 9:58 AM EDT


    Our offensive line is good overall, but not elite. We have strength at the tackle and LG positions, the right side of our line starting with Koppen in the middle, and Connolly at RG are the weakest points. Defenses will exploit that and collapse and bring pressure from the middle.

    We also have a fairly athletic OL, meaning they can pull and get out in front of screens all day long. Agree with most on this post saying we need a more balanced attack, and i do want to see more screens, draws, quick passing plays, etc.

    We are going to run into trouble with good DL's, but so is everyone. It comes down to playcalling and adjustments. O'Brien seems to dial up a gameplan when facing good DL's that plays against the way you would attack a good DL. TB seems to not be as comfortable as in the past adjusting to this pressure at the line. Perhaps its in the disguises, or perhaps something else.

    I don't think it rests soley on the shoulders of the OL. I'll give them 1/3 the credit, TB 1/3 and O'Brien 1/3. Probably some blame to spread around on the receivers as well.

    This OL will be considerably better with Cannon at RG, and perhaps replacing Koppen at Center with someone a bit bigger. I see next year's draft as targeting Koppen's replacement plus adding some depth at the G position once again.
     

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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hardright. Show hardright's posts

    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 10:32 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : This is it. In the early Brady (Weiss) years the Pats loaded up with screens.  They are essential against strong, attacking front 7's.  After Weiss' departure they drifted more and more toward downfield passing.  Plus, they have had no effective edge rusher that was a threat to take it all the way since - well since a looong time ago. Count me as one who believes that this O-Line is no worse than what was sewed together in 01-04. However, when your OC and offensive game plan is inflexible and predictable it doesn't matter much who you have up front.  Did anyone else see BB appear to be irate with O'Brien during the game?  This is after O'Brien nearly ran out the clock in the Jets playoff game when they needed to go hurry-up. The biggest problem I see is with O'Brien.
    Posted by nyjoseph


    I agree.

    It's the philosophy, which has changed dramatically since Weis left. It's not the talent on the O-line, unless everyone here thinks that the rotation of Woody, Koppen, Light, Neal, Hochstein, Andruzzi, Goren, Robinson-Randall, and others from the Pats' "glory days" were the second coming of Fuzzy Thurston/Forrest Gregg/Jerry Kramer and Co. in Green Bay. All good players, but not any better than the group they put out there now.

    It's the scheme....far too much spread; far too much downfield throwing; not nearly enough running plays and shorter stuff in the passing game. It worked brilliantly for 10 or 11 games in 2007. After that, teams began to figure it out.

    McDaniels started the whole "spread them out" thing and O'Brien has merely continued it; and neither of them has shown the ability to adjust when things aren't working. (I'll give McDaniels a half thumbs up for grinding out a win against San Diego in the '07 AFC title game by pounding Maroney at them in the second half when their pass rush was killing Brady all day long--couldn't do it in the Super Bowl, unfortunately.)





     

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    Re: pat's offensive line

    posted at 8/31/2011 10:37 AM EDT

    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line:
    In Response to Re: pat's offensive line : Oh good, another chicken little on the board. 
    Posted by shenanigan


    I thought the post was pretty acurate.  What other reason besides the O-line have we not performed in the playoffs??  SB 42 and last year to the Jets...Brady running for his life....I will admit that 2 years ago against B-More we were outmatched on Offense and Defense, but its clear our problem is no protection for Brady in the playoffs....because after dominating reg. season he can barely get a pass off...and people blame the D, but the Giants nor the Jets won by scoring lots of points...but they did it by limiting our offense.  O'bie needs to learn how to get our offense in rythm by calling more runs early to get our O-line feeling good...basic football 101 i thought