In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:
he will at least miss part of it.

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:


LMAO.  There's always fan angst during the off-season because we have nothing better to do with our time. That ain't any difference from your camp.

I think it'd be safe to say Welker won't be back until the end of the regular season. It's rumored that he'll be back in 6 months from the time of surgery, but if I were BB...I wouldn't push him that hard.

In regards to Brady, I don't care who our crop of WRs are - whether it comes in the form WRs, TEs, or RBs....until we improve our OL at C, RT, and RG (in a way that will both protect Brady AND open holes for our running game), our offense will not fare well against those who have an above average pass rush.

In order of most important needs? #1 for me is our weak pass rush. #2 is the right side of our offensive line.

anyhoo....

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:
how many times a year do we here the draft is deep?and how many players will make a huge impact in there first year?the draft is great on building the team for the future,but its rare you get the rookie of the likes of adrian petersons,the derell revises,or the rookie merrimans.not saying it isnt possible,but rare.

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:
 did we resign patten? i didnt see that one.not that it will be a huge boost.

Agreed on Welker not being back until the end of the regular season (say, December).   It doesn't matter anyway. They neded to focus on other aspects of the offense.  They need to not go to just Moss/Welker/slot WR. Teams can easily gameplan and focus all on that. It's sort of like how NE does a very good job on Dallas Clark and that's how they outplay Indy (until phantom flags come flying in at RCA Dome/Lucas Oil Field).  It's pretty easy what to do in order to have a chance to slow an offense down, the question is, CAN a team do it.   The Pats need to get back to "what are we going to do this week"?  They got away from that, on both sides of the ball, in 2007. It worked in 2007 because it was new.  The offense kills bad/mediocre D and struggles against teams with a good/great D.

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:



It's about camp competition. You add in their top 4 picks at need positions, or even their top 5 picks (one on the 4th round) and that's an awful lot of raw, fresh, high end talent mixed in with some youthful experience on this team.  Yes, we don't know what a top flight CB would do against Butler in camp (for example) or how great an Odrick (example) might look competing with Mike Wright, but that is the point. Get the best to compete in spots where you need an upgrade.  They need upgrades at (in no particular order) LCB, OLB, DE, TE, OT, RB and WR.  I think we can agree these are the top need spots for camp.  This can come in the form of the draft or more FA moves.    I would be far more concerend if the team was poorly managed and had a fundamental problem on both sides of the ball, but they don't.

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:


Old news but yes Patten was signed

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=pressreleasesdetail&pid=41943&pcid=47

mosseffect43 Posts: 5189 First: 4/7/2008 Last: 3/17/2010

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense: In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense : Name me 1 team that has made more offseason Free agent signings than the Pats this year..... Posted by m1021us out side of resigning there own players?

Were their own players Free Agents?


And yes we signed Patten for a second time around.

And no, I don't think that we will see Welker until the second half of the season IF at all.....

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:

 by technicality you could say the pats did.that being said.the pats are better with them then without them,but have they improved,and are they better now then they were last season?

the off season consists of three phases to get the team together........free agency........which was weak ...........the draft ....which hasn't happened yet .........and trades ...which haven't happened yet and will happen on draft day.....Hard to throw in the towel on a season when three quarters of the off season hasn't come yet................its a  jog

I agree there is a lot of time left,and trades could happen.ive never thrown in the towel on the team.ive always hope for the best,but like many here i just state my opinions on the moment at hand.

werent the saints 8-8 the year before last?  that can only mean we are actually closer than we might have thought   nuf said...

mosseffect43 Posts: 5184 First: 4/7/2008 Last: 3/17/2010

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense: mosseffect43 Posts: 5189 First: 4/7/2008 Last: 3/17/2010 In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense : In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense : Name me 1 team that has made more offseason Free agent signings than the Pats this year..... Posted by m1021us out side of resigning there own players? Were their own players Free Agents? And yes we signed Patten for a second time around. And no, I don't think that we will see Welker until the second half of the season IF at all..... Posted by m1021us  by technicality you could say the pats did.that being said.the pats are better with them then without them,but have they improved,and are they better now then they were last season?

Yes, the Pats were able to retain some of the best free agents out there (which hapens to be their own), thus keeping their core team in tact.....

There is not 1 team out there that has improved.....it does not make sense to complain about the Pats not improving this early in the off season.....

Commenting in these forums is merely expressing opinion and we're all entitled to do exactly that.  Mine, however, is in pretty sharp contrast to those who believe that the sky is indeed about to fall.  Julius Peppers gets a lot of sacks, no question about it.  But spending the kind of money the Bears did to sign him was a move born of desperation and they are desperate.  Baltimore is welcome to Bolden; he's a malcontent on the downside of his career. 

After the Pats took care of business by re-signing their own free agents (all of which were good to excellent moves in my opinion) what exactly was out there?  It was indeed a thin F/A market. 

The medical assessment that Welker will not be ready until the end of the 2010 reg season or miss 2010 altogether came from where, exactly??

Setting aside the young players who missed all or most of last year (which I believe will yield a legit player or 2 at receiver and/or LB), the Pats have 4 picks in the top 53 of what is considered a very deep draft. They have lots of options in terms of moving up, down or trading.  I'm sure they will make some moves.

Call me a KoolAid drinker if you like, I put my trust in BB and I think we will indeed be competitive yet again.

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:


Hey Dogg! Forget what thread it was, but late last week we were talking about the Super Bowl Loser's Swoon Syndrome. You felt that the Dolts were not likey to fall prey to this, even though most of the Super Bowl losers of the Patriots Decade of the 00's did indeed do so.  You asked me to name 5 teams that I felt were or very well might be better than your Dolts (and why) this season. I could not answer you at the time because I was still at work when I read your response.

I think that the following teams could very well beat your team in the AFC / NFC regular season and/or playoffs, including the Super Bowl, especially if your boys are on the road and outside. Now, I have no idea what your schedule is this season, other than division stiffs: titans, texans, jaguars and maybe you won't even play some of the teams listed below.

The Bolts - why? Because they always have beaten your team when it counts.
The Patriots - Why? Because we will play you in Foxboro...I think we definitely win last season if we were not in Indy.
The Jets - because you will want to rest your starters, LOL.
The Phins - because they are a balanced team and hate your guts like we do.
The Bills - because they beat you last year, it was very cold outside.


Maybe (at home), but do not know your schedule for this season: The Bengals (especially if Ocho Cinco gets his buddy TO), Steelers (because they are the Steelers), Ravens (because they hate all of Gomer's commercials), Raiders (because it will be at the end of the season and you will not want to enhance our Raider pick in 2011).

NFC: I think you could easily lose to:
The Saints - because  you already did lose to them.
The Vikings - depends upon who has the ball last - does FAVOR or Gomer choke last to lose the big game???? That is the question????
The Iggles - because they have a relentless pass rush. Gomer gets rattled...end of story.

OK Dogg?  Flail way brother!!!

Bradley,

I used to take you seriously.  We could really talk about things, but you've now devolved into one of those guys who just writes crap just to do it. 

First, likely any AFC team can beat the colts, but who is better and who will do so in order to keep them from the postseason next year.  The fact is these other teams have their own flaws as well. 

3 of your answers are legit.  Bolts, Pats, Jets, but the Phins and Bills??  Really??.  

First - Here's the sched - AFC West (Den, Oak Away), NFC East (Phil, Wash Away), Pats away and Bengals home.   

Toughest away games - Pats, Hou, Ten. 

Toughest home games - SD, Dal, Cin,

I like the colts chances again. 

It is entirely possible that the colts miss the playoffs next year.  I agree they were not that great this year - look at all of the comebacks, but I just don't know if there are enough teams good enough to actually take them out. 

TP the OP has posted and ran. Regarding the Pats' passive off-season making no sense, the overall majority of NFL teams have been passive. Makes sense to me.

Any team can beat another team on any given day, but the better run teams win more than they lose. The Patriots, Colts, Steelers and now the Saints have smart front offices and coaches who know how to build teams in today's salary cap era. Off years happen, injuries happen, that's why the good teams build depth and don't over-spend in free-agency.

I like the Patriots chances as well.

don't think its passive, they signed key theier key FA's, still have the draft to go, and by training camp BB make make a deal or two. he traded seymour right before the season started, i won't be surprised if he pull anothe rabbit out the hat

Very good logic Texas,

I'm inbetween the 2 camps right now. I feel the Pats could have and should have targeted a couple of choice FA's and IMO they waited to long to sign there own guys back. No I wasn't thinking Dansby or Peppers mainly because I knew they would have cost way to much but I did think that both Walter and Boldin went for more then fair value and the Pats soud have been all over both of them. Also looking at Wimbley trade to Oak that's another one they should have atleast tried to get in.

On the other hand the big FA names went for way to much money and the FA pool was way to thin to make a lot of moves on. That being the main reason why a lot of teams haven't signed a lot of players again imo.

The Pats resigned a number of their own players which means they didn't exactly get worse (by losing the players) but without signing FA's so far they haven't gotten better then a team that was booted early in the playoffs. You then take a look at an aging OL, Welker being lost for what looks like atleast the PuP, and that they have lost all their TE's and they have infact actually got worse from last year. Now it's true that other teams haven't improved either but other teams haven't lost as much as us in terms of a starting DE, all TE's, resigning a RG that was looking to retire and already having a gapping hole in the pass rush.

Now the draft is extremely deep and should help a lot but saying that it will fix all holes and we will magically pick up trades while keepng all our picks to fill hioles is nuts. IMO this year might hurt but with a strong solid draft we might be built for another 5 year run.

This is just not a good year to have so many holes to fill. With any luck a couple good players will be released because the draft alone won't improve us from last year. 

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:
there is a diffrence then complaing and just stateing.im just stateing they havent improved themselves yet.dosent matter to me how early it is or how much longer it will go.im just stateing at this moment right now the pats have yet filled there weakness on the team.I hear many say the free agency is weak.now is it weak by the players or the positions?for i think there are several players out there that still has lots of talent and can help,and thrive with the pats.now if its lets say pass rushers then yes its very weak there.

     Sorry I've been late in responding...just extremely busy lately. Rather than take on your posts individually...here is my general response to you-all:

     At the end of last season, the following weaknesses were obvious:

1.) Punter: Chris Hanson is terrible. He was once know as a good "positional punter"...a guy who could angle his kicks 40 yards and out of bounds, or nail the "coffin corner" kick, inside the opponents' own 10 yard line. Those days are gone. Hanson may be the worst overall punter in the NFL.

2.) Kick Return Game: With Welker gone, the Pats have no one...and I mean no one...who is a competent punt returner or kickoff returner. Matthew Slater is terrible. Patrick Chung was awful. NO ONE!! Add this with poor punting, and you'll know why the Patriots always seem to start drives in horrible field position...and why opposing offenses always seem to have a short field against the not so formidable Patriots' defense.

3.) OL:

a.) Pass Protection: Over the past two seasons, Tom Brady has suffered a severe knee injury, broken ribs, and a damaged throwing shoulder. At age 33, how much more abuse can Brady take? Time to give the OL a wake-up/shake-up call...and let them know that if Brady's livelihood is on the line, so are their jobs. OTs Nick Kazcur is a joke...and longtime LT Matt Light is showing his age. Sebastien Vollmer provides hope. RG Steven Neal is 33 years old, and always seems to get hurt. Center Dan Koppen isn't the same player since his knee injury. LG Logan Mankins still needs to be extended;

b.) Run Blocking: Sorry guys, but the Pats have become a soft, finesse team. I for one am tired of seeing Patriot RBs, no matter who they are, getting hit behind the line of scrimmage...or having no room to run. Is there any wonder why Tom Brady throws 45 times per game...and Wes Welker has to be counted on for 100 plus receptions? 

3.) RBs: Let the Maroney bashing begin! Frankly, I had no problems with Maroney, until he developed a bad case of fumble-itis last season. RBs Kevin Faulk, Fred Taylor, and Sammy Morris all are around 34 years old...which is ancient for an NFL player at this position. A stud is badly needed. Why didn't the Pats at least kick the tires on Thomas Jones?

4.) WRs: Anyone who thinks that Wes Welker will be a huge contributor next season is dreaming. At best, he'll be ready to go in late November. You saw how anemic the Pats' offense was without him in the Ravens' blow-out playoff win. The Pats still lack a WR to run opposite of Randy Moss. If the season started today, the Pats would be starting Moss, Sam Aiken, and Julian Edleman, with perhaps Shamus of the WWE at TE. After Moss gets' mauled, other than Shamus, there is no threat. 

5.) DL: Vince is back!! Great!!! His alleged back-up, Ron Brace, strongly resembled a bust last season. With Jarvis Green gone, who replaces Richard Seymour? Mike Wright?? Ty Warren was put together with glue and popsicle sticks last year. Worse yet...who are the back-ups? 

6.) OLBs: Unfortunately, Adalius Thomas and Derrick Burgess have flopped. Tully Banta-Cain was resurrected, and had a good season. The Pats are still waiting for Shawn Crable to make it through a practice without straining a hamstring. Pierre Woods is a good special teamer. How exciting. 

7.) Secondary: How is 2008 2nd rounder Terrence Wheatley working for ya?? The CBs are so bad that the Pats had to pay a premium to bring back Leigh Bodden. Darius Butler offers hope. The 34th overall pick last year, Patrick Chung, brought back painful memories of his "cousin" Eugene. When he hits, he hits hard. But his coverage skills were sorely lacking. Maybe he'll improve...we hope.

8.) Coaching: In many games, the Pats looked disorganized, and were badly outcoached last season...particularly in the second half of games. They were a team that could not win on the road. I can't remember a Patriots' team being so deficient in these areas since the bad old days. Yet, BB made no effort to bring in an experienced OC or DC. Can somebody please point out the wisdom here?


     The bottom line is...is there anyone who can tell me with a straight face that these flawed Patriots, as currently constituted, are a legitimate SB contender? I've never questioned Bob Kraft's commitment to winning, until now. I recommend this excellent article on the above subject, by Jim Donaldson of the Providence Journal: http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/Jim_Donaldson_New_England_Patrio_03-07-10_31H_v2.30f478c.html     


         



    

TP, gotta disagree.

The Pats mantained their core players while their losses won't be missed. This team needs to get a true #1 RB (Laurence isn't) and get a FB and a couple blocking TEs. All these can be had in the draft. A more balanced offense that can wear down teams while keeping their defenses honest will cure a lot of ills.

Their D is better than many think and I think the departure of Dean Poops should instantly improve this underachieving unit.

If they fail to improve the running game, all my optimism will shack up with Maroney's potential.

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:


     Sam, apparently you don't recall how active the Patriots were in the free agent market, going into that year. On defense, they added DEs Anthony Pleasant and Bobby Hamilton, LBs Mike Vrabel, Bryan Cox, and Roman Phifer, CB Terrell Buckley, SS Je'Rod Cherry, and pulled CB Otis Smith off the scrap heap.

     On offense, they picked up RB Antowain Smith, FB Marc Edwards, TEs Jermaine Wiggins and Cameron Cleeland, OL Steven Neal, Tom Ashworth, and Mike "Snow Angel" Compton, and WR David Patten. 

     That, a very good draft (Richard Seymour and Matt Light taken with their first two picks), BB, an outstanding coaching staff in which the Pats boasted both an OC and DC (what a novel idea??!!) and the emergence of an unknown, 2nd year QB named Tom Brady, brought them a SB. 

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:



     Cuban...the Pats have a ton of holes...and not all of them can be adequately filled via the upcoming draft. Regardless of who their RBs are, the OL must open some holes, for a change...and Tom Brady must be better protected. WR is a major weakness, especially with the Welker injury.

     No one is saying that signing free agents to fill all holes was the way to go. 
Julius Peppers is a 4-3 DE. At age 30, it made no sense for the Pats to gamble huge money to try to convert him to a 3-4 OLB. But, why couldn't the Pats have gone the extra mile and filled the gaping WR hole with Boldin? Why not bring back a guy with lots to prove, and who knows the system, in Donte' Stallworth? Why not add the physical type RB you seem to crave in Thomas Jones?

     Remember...this is an uncapped year.

     Then, in the draft, upgrade the OL, DL, or OLB positions...depending on who is available. Last season, the Ravens destroyed the Pats on the ground...and every team hurt them through the air.  

In Response to Re: Pats' Passive Off-Season Makes No Sense:


     Wrong. Didn't you read my post? The Pats got a ton of help through free agency in 2001. In 2010, they have done nothing to add talent. All they've done is resign their own players. They have far too many holes to rely solely on the draft.

     Being optimistic is good...but only when theres' a factual basis to be optimistic.