Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to anonymis' comment:


    If we assume that the Patriots are loaded on offense, and still can't stop opponents on D when it counts.....then "ball control offense" doesn't work.

    Right now, Patriots have to score a ton....and pray the opposing team doesn't just come back, or the opposition doesn't have the ball for last offensive possession and score, or the the Patriots can actually come back on the last offensive possession and actually score because the defense couldn't hold up on their end.



    IMO, this is a myth you are propagating.

    Neither the Pats' D in SB 36 nor SB 38 did well in the fourth quarter. In both games, the D allowed the most points in the fourth. 

    No, the offense does not have to score a ton. They just have to score enough.

    Look at the per quarter score on SB 36. Rams scored 3, 0, 0 14. That is exactly the same per quarter score that the Pats gave up to NYG in SB 42. On those games being compared, and measured by the ultimate metric for output, which is the pts scored, the 2007 D played as well as the 2001 D. 

    But, you know what was different? In SB 36, the Pats already scored 17 in the first three quarters, giving them enough of a cushion despite a fourth Q collapse by the D, PLUS, after the D's collapse, the O found a way to score to put the game away. This was back when TB was still learning the game. 

    Pats scored 20 pts in SB 36 and they won. Anyone who says that's a lot is saying that out of bias.

    Interestingly, the the Pats could have won SB 46 with 20 points, if TB did not give up the safety.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

    Brady thinks it's mostly about him and his arm, and it's cost the team. Unfortunate, but the truth.

    It's been brutal to watch Brady morph into that same mold.

     

     

     

     

    This is all just silly supposition on your part, you have zero proof of any of this.  The offense turned this way because of changes in coaching, coordinator and personnel... this soap opera is all in your head.  

    Brady has been the model of a team player since he arrived and nothing has changed.

     



     Each time I read this cats diatribes about Brady's acumen I say my prayers that I don't have such an intense anger about a stranger and his job performance. I reserve that kind of brain space for things that really matter in my life. I hope one day he finds peace...he has some good points when  he is on topic and off Brady.

     

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    I am very much at peace with knowing we won't win a SB unless we commit to a run, don't turn it over multiple times and for Brady to be better than he has been.



    I am very much at peace with knowing BB has already blown it and the mediocre team around Brady will not be dramatically upgraded before Tom goes off into the sunset.

    The Brady years have been squandered by far too many poor decisions at the top and we will enter into a mediocre period with our mediocre team once Brady is gone.

    And I will be here to say I told you so.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to Gravelten4's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Brady thinks it's mostly about him and his arm, and it's cost the team. Unfortunate, but the truth.

    It's been brutal to watch Brady morph into that same mold.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    This is all just silly supposition on your part, you have zero proof of any of this.  The offense turned this way because of changes in coaching, coordinator and personnel... this soap opera is all in your head.  

    Brady has been the model of a team player since he arrived and nothing has changed.

     

     



     Each time I read this cats diatribes about Brady's acumen I say my prayers that I don't such an intense anger about a stranger and his job performance. I reserve that kind of brain space for things that really matter in my life. I hope one day he finds peace...he has some good points when  he is on topic and off Brady.

     

     

     



    Why can't my opinion of Brady's ego be respected, though?  Brady has changed a TON since his earlier years. I can't name one time he stared down Brown, Patten or Branch. You've either been his binky club since 2007 or you haven't been.

     

    I am very much at peace with knowing we won't win a SB unless we commit to a run, don't turn it over multiple times and for Brady to be better than he has been. I've known it for years, essentially since the loss in SB 42.



    You can have your opinion and I respect that completely. Sometimes it comes across as almost "mission" like in regard to Brady' that's all. You clearly put a lot of time and effort into many of your posts...both facts and personal view points. It would be a great shame if some people disregarded them solely based on an argumentative tone- real or perceived.

     

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to Gravelten4's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    In response to Gravelten4's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Brady thinks it's mostly about him and his arm, and it's cost the team. Unfortunate, but the truth.

    It's been brutal to watch Brady morph into that same mold.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    This is all just silly supposition on your part, you have zero proof of any of this.  The offense turned this way because of changes in coaching, coordinator and personnel... this soap opera is all in your head.  

    Brady has been the model of a team player since he arrived and nothing has changed.

     

     

     



     Each time I read this cats diatribes about Brady's acumen I say my prayers that I don't such an intense anger about a stranger and his job performance. I reserve that kind of brain space for things that really matter in my life. I hope one day he finds peace...he has some good points when  he is on topic and off Brady.

     

     

     

     

     



    Why can't my opinion of Brady's ego be respected, though?  Brady has changed a TON since his earlier years. I can't name one time he stared down Brown, Patten or Branch. You've either been his binky club since 2007 or you haven't been.

     

     

    I am very much at peace with knowing we won't win a SB unless we commit to a run, don't turn it over multiple times and for Brady to be better than he has been. I've known it for years, essentially since the loss in SB 42.

     



    You can have your opinion and I respect that completely. Sometimes it comes across as almost "mission" like in regard to Brady' that's all. You clearly put a lot of time and effort into many of your posts...both facts and personal view points. It would be a great shame if some people disregarded them solely based on an argumentative tone- real or perceived.

     

     




    He doesn't like facts. Facts to him are like sunshine to a vampire.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

    I am very much at peace with knowing we won't win a SB unless we commit to a run, don't turn it over multiple times and for Brady to be better than he has been.

     

     



    I am very much at peace with knowing BB has already blown it and the mediocre team around Brady will not be dramatically upgraded before Tom goes off into the sunset.

     

     

    The Brady years have been squandered by far too many poor decisions at the top and we will enter into a mediocre period with our mediocre team once Brady is gone.

    And I will be here to say I told you so.

     



    Yes, BB as coach of the year, almost any year and the best drafts of any team in the last 3 years, equates to BB "blowing it". Also, when BB dealt for Moss and Welker, that was really a problem for Brady, too. Poor Tom.

     

    BB was the slam dunk executive of the year in 2010, too. Maybe he should change his titles with Caserio's just so he can get those awards, huh?

    Do you also blame BB for Brady going down in 2008, too? Hey, didn't that happen when he underthrew Moss the play earlier in the shotgun, he stepped into it and underthrew him again because he isn't a good deep ball thrower like he thinks he is? Funny. Seems like he got hurt within the very framework of what this article posted talks about. The KC Chiefs had no interesting in defending the run that day, because they knew where the balls were going.

     



    Stick a fork into it dumbkoff.


    The failed mastermind from Cleveland inherited a bunch of excellent players, got unbelievably lucky in the 6th round, won a few SBs from that, then let the team around his HOFer sink into mediocrity with his choices.

    It's simple and plain to see. The party is pretty much over. If we're lucky we could sneak one more Lombardi into the building before the decent comes. Probably not.

    The buck stops with BB. His glory days are long gone and his Cleveland days will soon be upon us.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    I do want the Pats to be unpredictable in play calling, not a total ball controll offense.  I don't know if the D is strong enough to play that style.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:



    It proves there are more people out there like this/who are now seeing the light. We saw it and wanted it years ago, but many here didn't understand why it was necessary.

     

    Many games handed away later, and now we know it's needed.

     



    Why hasn't the head coach realized this and made the changes you suggest?  Is it because he's not very good at his job, or because you're wrong?

     



    Bill Belichik built this offense. Why would he change what he built?

    His two greatest influences have been Chip Kelly and Urban Meyer. 

    My guess is if NE is to go "ball control" (they are ball control now, just a blend of running and ball control passing) then it's going to involve BB leaving. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

     

     


    If we assume that the Patriots are loaded on offense, and still can't stop opponents on D when it counts.....then "ball control offense" doesn't work.

    Right now, Patriots have to score a ton....and pray the opposing team doesn't just come back, or the opposition doesn't have the ball for last offensive possession and score, or the the Patriots can actually come back on the last offensive possession and actually score because the defense couldn't hold up on their end.

     

     



    IMO, this is a myth you are propagating.

     

     

    Neither the Pats' D in SB 36 nor SB 38 did well in the fourth quarter. In both games, the D allowed the most points in the fourth. 

    No, the offense does not have to score a ton. They just have to score enough.

    Look at the per quarter score on SB 36. Rams scored 3, 0, 0 14. That is exactly the same per quarter score that the Pats gave up to NYG in SB 42. On those games being compared, and measured by the ultimate metric for output, which is the pts scored, the 2007 D played as well as the 2001 D. 

    But, you know what was different? In SB 36, the Pats already scored 17 in the first three quarters, giving them enough of a cushion despite a fourth Q collapse by the D, PLUS, after the D's collapse, the O found a way to score to put the game away. This was back when TB was still learning the game. 

    Pats scored 20 pts in SB 36 and they won. Anyone who says that's a lot is saying that out of bias.

    Interestingly, the the Pats could have won SB 46 with 20 points, if TB did not give up the safety.

     



    Or thrown the INT to a one legged TE or thrown high with plenty of time to a wide open Welker.

     

    Of course it's a myth.  He's a troll.



    Anonymis is not a troll. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I am very much at peace with knowing we won't win a SB unless we commit to a run, don't turn it over multiple times and for Brady to be better than he has been.

     

     

     

     



    I am very much at peace with knowing BB has already blown it and the mediocre team around Brady will not be dramatically upgraded before Tom goes off into the sunset.

     

     

     

     

    The Brady years have been squandered by far too many poor decisions at the top and we will enter into a mediocre period with our mediocre team once Brady is gone.

    And I will be here to say I told you so.

     

     

     



    Yes, BB as coach of the year, almost any year and the best drafts of any team in the last 3 years, equates to BB "blowing it". Also, when BB dealt for Moss and Welker, that was really a problem for Brady, too. Poor Tom.

     

     

     

    BB was the slam dunk executive of the year in 2010, too. Maybe he should change his titles with Caserio's just so he can get those awards, huh?

    Do you also blame BB for Brady going down in 2008, too? Hey, didn't that happen when he underthrew Moss the play earlier in the shotgun, he stepped into it and underthrew him again because he isn't a good deep ball thrower like he thinks he is? Funny. Seems like he got hurt within the very framework of what this article posted talks about. The KC Chiefs had no interesting in defending the run that day, because they knew where the balls were going.

     

     

     



     

     

    Stick a fork into it dumbkoff.


    The failed mastermind from Cleveland inherited a bunch of excellent players, got unbelievably lucky in the 6th round, won a few SBs from that, then let the team around his HOFer sink into mediocrity with his choices.

    It's simple and plain to see. The party is pretty much over. If we're lucky we could sneak one more Lombardi into the building before the decent comes. Probably not.

    The buck stops with BB. His glory days are long gone and his Cleveland days will soon be upon us.

     

     



    "decent"? Don't call me a name like "dumbkoff" and then completely spell a 5th grade word wrong. Irony is too thick there.

     

    This last post of yours, proves you're a troll. BB is greatest NFL coach ever. Def Coordinator, one of the best of all time, and head coach, the best.  GM, the best. 

    Until you make a case that dispels these realities, you are the one who needs to stick a fork in it.

    Tom Brady owes much of his career to the genius of Bill Belichick.  Even Tom Brady says that. I knew you wouldn't like this thread.  The article actually introduces the idea that Brady is channeling Gomer Manning these days. Good or great in the regular season, putrid or barely mediocre in the postseason.

    Just two days ago you said Brady calls the BB the best coach ever, yet somehow BB had nothing to do with Brady's development?

    Gee, who is that guy saying things to him like "step into the throw", etc? The boogie man?

     

     




    Wrong choice on the spellcheck dumbkoff. It happens.

     

    I like the thread just fine. It exposes a dumbkpff like you.

     

    Brady has said BB is a great coach. I agree. Of course that has helped Brady.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Actually a ball control offense with a defense that led the NFL in takeaways works just fine, there's nothing to support that notion.  The proof is 2001-2004.




    Except they didn't lead the Lead in take a ways.    That's a total falsity (and what you get for believing anything the resident troll says) They were like 3rd if I remember.  They led the league in  T/O differential,  because of the relatively few offensive turn-overs.

    Defensive take a ways - offensive give a ways='s T/O differential

    Secondly, he is right.  A ball control offense doesn't work with a defense that can't get off the field.  No team is going to try to eat clock offensively when their D is already doing that, unless they have a large lead. (which they probably won't if they are running the ball 50%)

    See ly AFC title game.

    Running the ball more, typically leads to less points.  Ask the 2011 Rams who ran the ball more and scored less points than any other team.

    Thirdly, as a matter of record, running the ball is the least influential factor in SB wins.

    Teams win with good run games and teams win with very poor run games.

    The most influential factor in SB winners is Pass Defense, followed by Pass Offense and ST play.

    Don't believe me.... Look it up

    The proof is that the ball control offense 2001-2004, worked with the  better Ds. ,

    not the way you interpret it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    The most influential factor in SB winners is Pass Defense, followed by Pass Offense and ST play.

    Don't believe me.... Look it up

    The proof is that the ball control offense 2001-2004, worked with the  better Ds. ,

    not the way you interpret it.



    In 2001 the Patriot's defense was 24th in passing yards allowed... brilliant work.  

    Talking to you is like talking to a child.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Actually a ball control offense with a defense that led the NFL in takeaways works just fine, there's nothing to support that notion.  The proof is 2001-2004.




    Yes wozzy, but our teams problems have been in postseason where those takeaways have been absent. Im sorry, as much as I like low scoring, defensive affairs, until I see it on the field, I maintain our D cant play ball control. It would just mean our offense would score 13 -18 ppg and our defense gives up over 20 so no bueno. If we dramatically improve next year and play more like we did down the stretch with more blitzing and get improve our rate of 3 and outs, GREAT!  You mentioned having an offense that constantly goes 3 and out, but that is really us?  Maybe come playoff time, but same can be said about the D's lack of 3 and outs!  NONE in the last SB! NONE! Rusty barked back "Oh please, so you were thinking that during the game?"  My answer was, no didnt know they had NO 3 and outs at any point but I noticed how much they were ON THE FIELD and how many times the camera panned to Brady picking his nose on the sideline. When facing a high scoring team, TOP is everything. YOu make them play YOUR game of ball control. We s*cked at it in the SB. This years Defensive improvement will say wether or not we can commit to run more. We did in Bmore and scored close to nothing and so there went Rustys notion of Benny being needed to win the SB!  Yea, you gotta ride the horse Benny to a SB!  LMAO!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Yes wozzy, but our teams problems have been in postseason where those takeaways have been absent. Im sorry, as much as I like low scoring, defensive affairs, until I see it on the field, I maintain our D cant play ball control. It would just mean our offense would score 13 -18 ppg and our defense gives up over 20 so no bueno. If we dramatically improve next year and play more like we did down the stretch with more blitzing and get improve our rate of 3 and outs, GREAT!  You mentioned having an offense that constantly goes 3 and out, but that is really us?  Maybe come playoff time, but same can be said about the D's lack of 3 and outs!  NONE in the last SB! NONE! Rusty barked back "Oh please, so you were thinking that during the game?"  My answer was, no didnt know they had NO 3 and outs at any point but I noticed how much they were ON THE FIELD and how many times the camera panned to Brady picking his nose on the sideline. When facing a high scoring team, TOP is everything. YOu make them play YOUR game of ball control. We s*cked at it in the SB. This years Defensive improvement will say wether or not we can commit to run more. We did in Bmore and scored close to nothing and so there went Rustys notion of Benny being needed to win the SB!  Yea, you gotta ride the horse Benny to a SB!  LMAO!



    Our defense forced the Giants to punt one more time in the last Super Bowl than theirs did to us, if you take away Brrady's safety than it would be two punts.  

    If our offense could have sustained any drives at all in the 3rd or fourth quarter instead of punting or throwing an interception than maybe our defense wouldn't have been so winded.  The final TD we scored four minutes into the 3rd quarter came about because of the no huddle, our defense got to rest for all of what, 3 minutes...

    Our offense didn't score for the last half hour of the game and turned it over once, in real time that's about an hour or more, the defense spent almost the whole second half on the field because the offense couldn't convert a first down.  That's just sad.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

    Actually a ball control offense with a defense that led the NFL in takeaways works just fine, there's nothing to support that notion.  The proof is 2001-2004.

     

     




    Except they didn't lead the Lead in take a ways.    That's a total falsity (and what you get for believing anything the resident troll says) They were like 3rd if I remember.  They led the league in  T/O differential,  because of the relatively few offensive turn-overs.

     

     

    Defensive take a ways - offensive give a ways='s T/O differential

    Secondly, he is right.  A ball control offense doesn't work with a defense that can't get off the field.  No team is going to try to eat clock offensively when their D is already doing that, unless they have a large lead. (which they probably won't if they are running the ball 50%)

    See ly AFC title game.

    Running the ball more, typically leads to less points.  Ask the 2011 Rams who ran the ball more and scored less points than any other team.

    Thirdly, as a matter of record, running the ball is the least influential factor in SB wins.

    Teams win with good run games and teams win with very poor run games.

    The most influential factor in SB winners is Pass Defense, followed by Pass Offense and ST play.

    Don't believe me.... Look it up

    The proof is that the ball control offense 2001-2004, worked with the  better Ds. ,

    not the way you interpret it.

     




    Maybe they'd get off the field more if our offense didn't run off it constantly after turnovers or successive 3 and outs?

     

    How can a team like NE lead the AFC in turnovers created and then "not get off the field"? That makes no sense.

    Finally, if the D is allowing just a FG after they allow 3rd down conversions on a drive, that's still a win.  You shouldn't be beating our team with our offense with just FGs.

     




    The O had the least T/O's AND the least 3 & outs last year and are always at the top 5 in these.

    The D can't get off the field when they don't get turn overs.   (Remember they got ZERO in the 2 SB's and the AFC game)  2 turnover in every 12 drives is only 16% of the drives.  The other 84% is when they couldn't get off.  Which far outweighs the times they did get them.   AND other teams get T/O's too.   The number of T/O's to drives is small and applies to all teams.  Who cares if they are getting T/O's 16% of the time when the other teams are getting them 15% of the time.  That's not significant enough over the course of a season, compared to the other teams.

    They did NOT LEAD THE LEAGUE IN TURN OVERS but the O DID lead the league in the least.

    give a ways.  Get your facts straight.

    Teams beat other teams ALL THE TIME in close games with FG's and when they are giving up fg's at a rate of 75% of the drives, you are bound to loose a lead if the other D isn't so gracious.  They lost 3 games last year by 2 points or less which is less than a fg.  Too bad the D gave up those FG's.  HUH

    And the Ravens didn't beat them with FG's.  They beat them by putting 4/4 in the EZ.

    Where were those FG victories then?  Pfft  Where was the FG victories on the last drives or 42 & 46?  FAIL!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

     

    In response to anonymis' comment:

     

     

     


    If we assume that the Patriots are loaded on offense, and still can't stop opponents on D when it counts.....then "ball control offense" doesn't work.

    Right now, Patriots have to score a ton....and pray the opposing team doesn't just come back, or the opposition doesn't have the ball for last offensive possession and score, or the the Patriots can actually come back on the last offensive possession and actually score because the defense couldn't hold up on their end.

     

     



    IMO, this is a myth you are propagating.

     

     

    Neither the Pats' D in SB 36 nor SB 38 did well in the fourth quarter. In both games, the D allowed the most points in the fourth. 

    No, the offense does not have to score a ton. They just have to score enough.

    Look at the per quarter score on SB 36. Rams scored 3, 0, 0 14. That is exactly the same per quarter score that the Pats gave up to NYG in SB 42. On those games being compared, and measured by the ultimate metric for output, which is the pts scored, the 2007 D played as well as the 2001 D. 

    But, you know what was different? In SB 36, the Pats already scored 17 in the first three quarters, giving them enough of a cushion despite a fourth Q collapse by the D, PLUS, after the D's collapse, the O found a way to score to put the game away. This was back when TB was still learning the game. 

    Pats scored 20 pts in SB 36 and they won. Anyone who says that's a lot is saying that out of bias.

    Interestingly, the the Pats could have won SB 46 with 20 points, if TB did not give up the safety.

     



    Or thrown the INT to a one legged TE or thrown high with plenty of time to a wide open Welker.

     

    Of course it's a myth.  He's a troll.

     

     



    Anonymis is not a troll. 

     

     




    He's clearly joined the group at this point. He's told me I get banned for namecalling, as Babe calls me "dumbkoff" continuously, without Anonymis confronting Babe for it.

     

    It's completely disingenuous. Trolls are never genuine in the discussion. They lie, deflect and spin to spam threads.




    Yep, YOU would Know!   lol

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

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    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

     

     

    Yes wozzy, but our teams problems have been in postseason where those takeaways have been absent. Im sorry, as much as I like low scoring, defensive affairs, until I see it on the field, I maintain our D cant play ball control. It would just mean our offense would score 13 -18 ppg and our defense gives up over 20 so no bueno. If we dramatically improve next year and play more like we did down the stretch with more blitzing and get improve our rate of 3 and outs, GREAT!  You mentioned having an offense that constantly goes 3 and out, but that is really us?  Maybe come playoff time, but same can be said about the D's lack of 3 and outs!  NONE in the last SB! NONE! Rusty barked back "Oh please, so you were thinking that during the game?"  My answer was, no didnt know they had NO 3 and outs at any point but I noticed how much they were ON THE FIELD and how many times the camera panned to Brady picking his nose on the sideline. When facing a high scoring team, TOP is everything. YOu make them play YOUR game of ball control. We s*cked at it in the SB. This years Defensive improvement will say wether or not we can commit to run more. We did in Bmore and scored close to nothing and so there went Rustys notion of Benny being needed to win the SB!  Yea, you gotta ride the horse Benny to a SB!  LMAO!

     

     



    Our defense forced the Giants to punt one more time in the last Super Bowl than theirs did to us, if you take away Brrady's safety than it would be two punts.  

     

     

    If our offense could have sustained any drives at all in the 3rd or fourth quarter instead of punting or throwing an interception than maybe our defense wouldn't have been so winded.  The final TD we scored four minutes into the 3rd quarter came about because of the no huddle, our defense got to rest for all of what, 3 minutes...

    Our offense didn't score for the last half hour of the game and turned it over once, in real time that's about an hour or more, the defense spent almost the whole second half on the field because the offense couldn't convert a first down.  That's just sad.




    It's incredibly sad. They crapped their pants for the entire 4th qtr on 4 drives.

     

    The D was outstanding in the second half, to hold on as long as they did, with the horrendous disappearing act on offense YET AGAIN.  I still can't believe they fizzled like that, with Brady and Welker leading the way.

     




    Yes, you have been Wes biggest critic BUT you cant believ how 2 GUYS. Brady and Wes didnt fair better in the 4th. Gosh you guys dont read your own stuff before typing. The offense was TWO PEOPLE> one of which had butterfingers. WHose fault is it that our offense was only Brady to Wes??   Ummm, maybe the guy that gave Ocho 5 million. I can do this all day, but it will always come back to the HEAD COACH, like its supposed to. He wants it no other way, yet you guys continue to make excuses for the best gm/coach in football history???   WHY?????

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

     

     

    Actually a ball control offense with a defense that led the NFL in takeaways works just fine, there's nothing to support that notion.  The proof is 2001-2004.

     

     




    Except they didn't lead the Lead in take a ways.    That's a total falsity (and what you get for believing anything the resident troll says) They were like 3rd if I remember.  They led the league in  T/O differential,  because of the relatively few offensive turn-overs.

     

     

    Defensive take a ways - offensive give a ways='s T/O differential

    Secondly, he is right.  A ball control offense doesn't work with a defense that can't get off the field.  No team is going to try to eat clock offensively when their D is already doing that, unless they have a large lead. (which they probably won't if they are running the ball 50%)

    See ly AFC title game.

    Running the ball more, typically leads to less points.  Ask the 2011 Rams who ran the ball more and scored less points than any other team.

    Thirdly, as a matter of record, running the ball is the least influential factor in SB wins.

    Teams win with good run games and teams win with very poor run games.

    The most influential factor in SB winners is Pass Defense, followed by Pass Offense and ST play.

    Don't believe me.... Look it up

    The proof is that the ball control offense 2001-2004, worked with the  better Ds. ,

    not the way you interpret it.

     




    That offense HELPED those Ds.  Why do you think our D in the 2006 AFC title game was out of gas in the second half?

     

    Our offense didn't do anything!   IN a dome, at the end of a game, both defenses are going to be tired.  It's what an offense does to sustain a drive and eat clock, hopefully with points out of it, is what matters.

    Brady had an INT and a myriad of 3 and outs/short drives in that second drive. The only TD "drive" came from 10 yards out simply because Ellis Hobbs ran one back 80 yards.
     That's PATHETIC.

    One drive lasted literally 30 seconds!




    LOL. They broke down because they were old, slow, and heavy.

    The O completely dominated in the first half and scored 3 times in the second.

    They couldn't get off the field in the second half and that trend continues to this day.

    They allowed 32 freaken points in the second half.

    Who allows 32 points in a half?  Pfft  Most teams don't even score near that in a whole game.    And you want to blame one 30 second drive.  BWAHAHAHA!

    Oh, and TB  only threw 34 times and they ran 24.  Isn't that your recipe for success?

    Guess even with your recipe for success, you need a defense! (not one that gives up scores on 5 of 7 drives)  UGH

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In 2001 the Patriot's defense was 24th in passing yards allowed... brilliant work.  

     



    Mebbe, but take a look at Passing Defense Efficiency....

     

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff2000

     

    Year       Total O                  Pass       Rush      Total D                  Pass       Rush

    2012       1                              1              4              14                           23           6

    2011       3                              2              4              28                           28           25

    2007       1                              1              2              19                           7              20

    2004       3                              2              4              7                              6              7

    2003       13                           12           25           13                           12           25

    2002       16                           10           14           21                           9              26

    2001       11                           10           17           13                           11           28

    2000       22                           15           27           25                           26           11

    The Pats need to be in top 5 in Points Against, top 5 in Red Zone Defense, and top 10 in Passing Defense efficiency....and it's okay to ease up on Rushing Defense efficiency.

    The only year where both offense and defense came together was 2004.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    Brady has sucked badly in critical moments with critical decisons. Taking the ball more out of his hands to keep him under 40 passes with leads in games will lead to more wins in the postseason. Scale Brady back. He's had PLENTY of opps to do it his preferred way.

     



    Hear that BB? Rusty has spoken. Make it so!

     

     

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    In 2001 the Patriot's defense was 24th in passing yards allowed... brilliant work.  

     

     



     

    Mebbe, but take a look at Passing Defense Efficiency....

     

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff2000

     

    Year       Total O                  Pass       Rush      Total D                  Pass       Rush

    2012       1                              1              4              14                           23           6

    2011       3                              2              4              28                           28           25

    2007       1                              1              2              19                           7              20

    2004       3                              2              4              7                              6              7

    2003       13                           12           25           13                           12           25

    2002       16                           10           14           21                           9              26

    2001       11                           10           17           13                           11           28

    2000       22                           15           27           25                           26           11

    The Pats need to be in top 5 in Points Against, top 5 in Red Zone Defense, and top 10 in Passing Defense efficiency....and it's okay to ease up on Rushing Defense efficiency.

    The only year where both offense and defense came together was 2004.



    Why do these rankings matter? Wozzy was talking about how they did in respective SBs they won and lost. He knows what the D has been in regular season. The point he's been making is that their offensive performance in the SB in 2011 and 2007 were below their respective reg season norms.

    If you want to compare across years, compare the number of points the scored and gave up on the SBs they played.

    They gave up 17, 29 and 21 on the SBs they won.

    They gave up 17 and 19 on the SBs they lost - both on the good end of their range - despite the change in emphasis on rules that benefit the passing game.

    They scored 20, 32, 24 on the SBs they won.

    They scored 14 and 17 on the SBs they lost - both on the bad end of their range despite playing under rules emphasis that are supposed to benefit more the best-passing team in the league.

    Everyone understands there is a correlation between reg season performance and SB success. The correlations of every metric with SB success nowhere near 1. What happened in SB 42 and 46 are actually examples of correlations not explaining the outcomes. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to wozzy's comment:


    In 2001 the Patriot's defense was 24th in passing yards allowed... brilliant work.  

     


    Yes that 68 DPR they had was soooo bad.

    Last year our DPR was a sparkling 87 and the year before that 86. (Or about the same as HOFers Marino and Favre on their career)

     

     
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