Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to anonymis's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    I'd like to think they have one more year left, but the odds are stacked against them. The guy keeps himself in really good shape, but Father Time catches up to everyone - of course losing just about every guy he threw to last year won't help. Hopefully the defense is finally "rebuilt".

     

     

    I think there are 2-3 years left, but the Patriots need to help in all 3 phases of the game; especially pass rush/pass coverage. If we can keep games close or be able to rely on the D for timely stops....then the Patriots' chances are as good as any other team



    It will be interesting to watch - it doesn't hurt that we have the best coach in sports either - but this will be a different year...there's a lot of pieces missing, new guys at key spots, a lot of distractions, etc. I do think Brady keeps himself in very good shape and works very hard at it, it's just a matter of is the defense ready for the challenge they will be facing now? And can we run it when teams know we may not be able to throw it all over the place? To me that's the key...can the defense become a top 5-7 defense? And can we run the ball on third down when it's more than two yards....can we smash those third and three's? If we can we may be a better team for it.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    In response to anonymis

    It will be interesting to watch - it doesn't hurt that we have the best coach in sports either - but this will be a different year...there's a lot of pieces missing, new guys at key spots, a lot of distractions, etc. I do think Brady keeps himself in very good shape and works very hard at it, it's just a matter of is the defense ready for the challenge they will be facing now? And can we run it when teams know we may not be able to throw it all over the place? To me that's the key...can the defense become a top 5-7 defense? And can we run the ball on third down when it's more than two yards....can we smash those third and three's? If we can we may be a better team for it.

     




    agreed, it will be fun (as usual) to watch this team play. I'm not too worried about the offense (as much as others).  Am very optimistic about the additions on defense and hope that we are in good position come the end of the regular season.  Hoping the DC will be more "aggressive" w/ defensive play calling

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    I found these while looking back at the 2007 season and thought they were pertinent to this conversation.

    Tom Brady September 19, 2007
    Brady likes the balance the Patriots have achieved between the run and the pass. He said it all starts with the run, which sets up other possibilities, such as play-action. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/09/explosive_offen.html

    Bill Belichick September 23, 2007
    How do you feel about the balance of your offense? Do you feel at all that the efficiency of your running game has been overlooked?

    "Well, the most important thing to me is scoring points on offense. I don’t really care how we score them. We’ve thrown the ball a lot. We’ve run it a lot. We’ve been balanced. I think in the end, you have to be able to execute the plays that are the most advantageous to you based on your personnel and what the defense is doing. As long as we’re moving the ball and scoring points, then we’re doing well offensively. If we’re not, then we’re not. It doesn’t make any difference what we’re doing. That’s the only reason that unit goes out on the field, is to score. If we just wanted to run three plays and punt, we could find a lot of guys to do that. Their job is to move it." http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/09/bills_take_101.html

    Bill Belichick July 24, 2008
    Q: How committed are you to the run game and making it a more balanced attack for this year?

    BB: We’re are committed to scoring and trying to win games and whatever we can do to do that, that is what I am all for. I’m sure our offensive game plans will reflect that based on the teams we are playing and how we match up against them and what we feel like is best for that particular game plan. It is important to have balance in your offense with both running and passing, inside and outside, long and deep and to be able to attack the defense on a lot of different fronts. Sometimes it is better to do one thing or another depending on the match-ups you have against that team. That is all game-to-game, week-to-week decisions. As far as training camp goes, we work on everything. We want to be prepared to use all of our weapons and assets on offense. How we use them and when we use them that will be determined by game planning and game time decisions. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/07/belichick_qa_1.html

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    I found these while looking back at the 2007 season and thought they were pertinent to this conversation.

    Tom Brady September 19, 2007
    Brady likes the balance the Patriots have achieved between the run and the pass. He said it all starts with the run, which sets up other possibilities, such as play-action. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/09/explosive_offen.html

    Bill Belichick September 23, 2007
    How do you feel about the balance of your offense? Do you feel at all that the efficiency of your running game has been overlooked?

    "Well, the most important thing to me is scoring points on offense. I don’t really care how we score them. We’ve thrown the ball a lot. We’ve run it a lot. We’ve been balanced. I think in the end, you have to be able to execute the plays that are the most advantageous to you based on your personnel and what the defense is doing. As long as we’re moving the ball and scoring points, then we’re doing well offensively. If we’re not, then we’re not. It doesn’t make any difference what we’re doing. That’s the only reason that unit goes out on the field, is to score. If we just wanted to run three plays and punt, we could find a lot of guys to do that. Their job is to move it."
    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/09/bills_take_101.html

    Bill Belichick July 24, 2008
    Q: How committed are you to the run game and making it a more balanced attack for this year?

    BB: We’re are committed to scoring and trying to win games and whatever we can do to do that, that is what I am all for. I’m sure our offensive game plans will reflect that based on the teams we are playing and how we match up against them and what we feel like is best for that particular game plan. It is important to have balance in your offense with both running and passing, inside and outside, long and deep and to be able to attack the defense on a lot of different fronts. Sometimes it is better to do one thing or another depending on the match-ups you have against that team. That is all game-to-game, week-to-week decisions. As far as training camp goes, we work on everything. We want to be prepared to use all of our weapons and assets on offense. How we use them and when we use them that will be determined by game planning and game time decisions. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/07/belichick_qa_1.html




    Despite it having been a long running debate around here; it's not a debate. They do what they think will work and they stick to what is working. BB has reaffirmed this over and over and over.

    This is as basic as football gets. You examine your opponent and determine what strengths of yours they are most vulnerable to and you go with that. From there you go with what is actually working. You change it up here and there to keep them honest.

    You "establish the running game" if that works. You don't hang your hat on that if your planning showed you that approach wouldn't work and the game is proving that as well. It's a recipe for losing. Why game plan at all if you're simply going to use the same recipe every time no matter the opponent?

    When planning, if your strength is an indomitable running game and especially if the opponent is vulnerable to that of course you might often hinge the plan on running. But this team's strength is not and has not been running. When they have played teams that were susceptible to the run they have run more.

    I have full confidence in the best coach in the game, BB. I believe he has full control of what the hell the team is doing and is far far more capable of discerning what approach to take than any 50 persons here combined.

    The problem is not and has not been what approach the team is using. The problem is and has been that the team simply does not have enough great players.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    I found these while looking back at the 2007 seasong and thought they were pertinent to this conversation.

    Tom Brady September 19, 2007
    Brady likes the balance the Patriots have achieved between the run and the pass. He said it all starts with the run, which sets up other possibilities, such as play-action. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/09/explosive_offen.html

    Bill Belichick September 23, 2007
    How do you feel about the balance of your offense? Do you feel at all that the efficiency of your running game has been overlooked?

    "Well, the most important thing to me is scoring points on offense. I don’t really care how we score them. We’ve thrown the ball a lot. We’ve run it a lot. We’ve been balanced. I think in the end, you have to be able to execute the plays that are the most advantageous to you based on your personnel and what the defense is doing. As long as we’re moving the ball and scoring points, then we’re doing well offensively. If we’re not, then we’re not. It doesn’t make any difference what we’re doing. That’s the only reason that unit goes out on the field, is to score. If we just wanted to run three plays and punt, we could find a lot of guys to do that. Their job is to move it." http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/09/bills_take_101.html

    Bill Belichick July 24, 2008
    Q: How committed are you to the run game and making it a more balanced attack for this year?

    BB: We’re are committed to scoring and trying to win games and whatever we can do to do that, that is what I am all for. I’m sure our offensive game plans will reflect that based on the teams we are playing and how we match up against them and what we feel like is best for that particular game plan. It is important to have balance in your offense with both running and passing, inside and outside, long and deep and to be able to attack the defense on a lot of different fronts. Sometimes it is better to do one thing or another depending on the match-ups you have against that team. That is all game-to-game, week-to-week decisions. As far as training camp goes, we work on everything. We want to be prepared to use all of our weapons and assets on offense. How we use them and when we use them that will be determined by game planning and game time decisions. http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/07/belichick_qa_1.html



    good post, digger.  I pretty much said this earlier on this thread.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    We're way, way past 2007, Bady missing 2008, his seeking to recapture old glories in 2009



    You realize this is just in your head, right? It's not a fact. You made it up.

    No, you don't realize that. It's just how a nutcase thinks. And that's why you need to....   seek help.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:


    Will Brady audible out it and pass for an INT?  Brady has 8 TDs nd 9 INTs in the postseason since 2007, with all of the games at home.  Think about that for a second. All home games (minus the neutral ground SB sites) and those are his numbers.   Take out the 2009 divsional game and it's still not good.  6 TDs, 5 INTs.   Just a brutal, brutal display for any HOF QB.

     




    Cherry pick much dumbkoff?

    In the 5 playoffs Brady has participated in since 2007 he has a 2/1 TD/INT ratio in 4 of the 5. 20/10.

    He had a 2/3 ratio in the 2009 debacle where the entire team stunk against the Ratbirds.


    So you lose yet again nutjob, and are exposed yet again as the phoney troll you are.

     

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    Never fails. Someone starts an interesting thread. Rusty the troll turns it into a Brady bashing. And gets owned in the conversation to boot. Same old, same old.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    Since 2005, 32 TDs and 19 INTs in the postseason is nowhere near 2:1.

    Tears!  Phatty Virgin is so dumb he doesn't what ratios are! bahwhah!  Cannot be made up. Can't.



    Three less picks and it's 2:1.  I'd say that's a lot closer to "near" than "nowhere near".

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

    Since 2005, 32 TDs and 19 INTs in the postseason is nowhere near 2:1.

    Tears!  Phatty Virgin is so dumb he doesn't what ratios are! bahwhah!  Cannot be made up. Can't.

     

     



    Three less picks and it's 2:1.  I'd say that's a lot closer to "near" than "nowhere near".

     

     

     



    40 TDs, and 20 INTs would be 2:1.  Regardless, that's still a bad ratio because that is way too many picks, especially when you consider in the 2011 divisionals vs a bad Denver team, BRady had a bloated stat line of 6 TDs and 0 INTs.

     

    So, even that is misleading. Why do I care if he has 6 TDs vs Denver and then 0 TDs and 2 INTs the next week in the title game vs Baltimore?  I care more that he was so awful after throwing 6 TDs the week before!  You should, too, but you're a troll and not a Pats fan, hence why you're playing these games.

    Look at this way, take out his best and worst games from 2005-2012 and his ratio is 24 TDs, 15 INTs.

    Anyway you cut it, that's not good.  He's 6 TDs off from getting it to 2:1.

    Then, you look at his AFC title games or SBs where he faces the better defenses and still isn't good.

    Just forget it. You can't change history or facts.

     

    Yeeeesh, You Never tire from this stuff huh? You must toss and turn all night thinking about it....smh.  That defense that you always try and prop up?  Well thats been a nightmare and most likely whats been keeping you up all night.  How about holding our defense to the same insane expectations, ya  know since they are being coached by a defensive genius and all. Best gm/coach ever. He should be able to build a top defense, no?

    BB loves to Pass and you hate it. Instead of going to the source, you continue to lambaste a "PLAYER" for DOING what he is Coached to do!  Pathetic.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     


    Cherry pick much dumbkoff?

     

     

    In the 5 playoffs Brady has participated in since 2007 he has a 2/1 TD/INT ratio in 4 of the 5. 20/10.

    He had a 2/3 ratio in the 2009 debacle where the entire team stunk against the Ratbirds.


    So you lose yet again nutjob, and are exposed yet again as the phoney troll you are.

     




     

    LIAR

     




    There is no lie in that mental case.

     

    2007 - 6/3 (2/1 ratio)

    [2009 - 2/3]

    2010 - 2/1 (2/1 ratio)

    2011 - 8/4 (2/1 ratio)

    2012 - 4/2 (2/1 ratio)

     

    A 2/1 ratio in 4 of the 5 playoffs.

     

    (total for 2007, 2010, 2011 and 2012 = 20/10)

     

    So, my statement that "In the 5 playoffs Brady has participated in since 2007 he has a 2/1 TD/INT ratio in 4 of the 5. 20/10." - is TRUE!

     

    Another day, another bludgeoning of the VI.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:



    40 TDs, and 20 INTs would be 2:1.



    32 and 16 would be also, math major.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:


    The D outperformed the offense in the 2011 postseason.

     


    A defense getting one INT in 3 games isn't outperforming anybody wacko. The NFL norm would be about 3 for 3 games.

    The 2004 team had 7 times as many in three games!

    Another day, another bludgeoning of the VI.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Yeeeesh, You Never tire from this stuff huh? You must toss and turn all night thinking about it....smh.  That defense that you always try and prop up?  Well thats been a nightmare and most likely whats been keeping you up all night.  How about holding our defense to the same insane expectations, ya  know since they are being coached by a defensive genius and all. Best gm/coach ever. He should be able to build a top defense, no?

    BB loves to Pass and you hate it. Instead of going to the source, you continue to lambaste a "PLAYER" for DOING what he is Coached to do!  Pathetic.


    He never complains about anything on the field but Brady.

    He gushes over nobodys like Meriweather, Chung or Edelman, but slams the greatest player in team history on nearly every post.

    Classic nutjob/troll.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    Since 2005, 32 TDs and 19 INTs in the postseason is nowhere near 2:1.

    Tears!  Phatty Virgin is so dumb he doesn't what ratios are! bahwhah!  Cannot be made up. Can't.

     

     

     



    Three less picks and it's 2:1.  I'd say that's a lot closer to "near" than "nowhere near".

     

     

     

     

     

     



    40 TDs, and 20 INTs would be 2:1.  Regardless, that's still a bad ratio because that is way too many picks, especially when you consider in the 2011 divisionals vs a bad Denver team, BRady had a bloated stat line of 6 TDs and 0 INTs.

     

     

    So, even that is misleading. Why do I care if he has 6 TDs vs Denver and then 0 TDs and 2 INTs the next week in the title game vs Baltimore?  I care more that he was so awful after throwing 6 TDs the week before!  You should, too, but you're a troll and not a Pats fan, hence why you're playing these games.

    Look at this way, take out his best and worst games from 2005-2012 and his ratio is 24 TDs, 15 INTs.

    Anyway you cut it, that's not good.  He's 6 TDs off from getting it to 2:1.

    Then, you look at his AFC title games or SBs where he faces the better defenses and still isn't good.

    Just forget it. You can't change history or facts.

     




    Here's some history and facts for you.

     

    If you actually did some research ( and left your unnatural hate for TB out of it) you would find that although interceptions are an integral factor in deciding winners and losers, they are NOT a good indication of QB play.

    In essence, raw INT stats show a highly distorted picture.

    More often than not, INTS are the fault of the receiver.

    Ints occur on roughly 3% of all throws.  That means good throws and bad throws.  It's what happens after the fact that determines whether that good or bad throw is completed or an in-completion or an interception.  A receiver can catch a bad pass,  drop a good one or he can let a perfect pass clang off his helmet, resulting in an int.

    Since (most) nfl QB's throw more good throws than bad, it stands to reason that more good throws are intercepted than bad, simply because there are more of them.

      IE.  Receiver error.

    There are also more influencing factors than simply a bad throw and or receiver error.

    Stats show that:  Game time situation plays a major role in influencing the 3% of all throws that end up being intercepted.

    Three times as many ints are thrown in the last 2 minutes in a half as apposed to the rest of the game.  Defenses know passes are coming and that gives them a distinct advantage. Also the O is probably going to be a little more reckless in their attempt to get a quick score.

    The distance the ball is thrown affects interception numbers. In 2010, balls thrown behind the line of scrimmage were intercepted just 1.1% of the time. Between 0-10 yards, the interception rate went up to 2.0%. From 10-20 yards, it doubled again to 4.0%, and for passes over 20 yards, it jumps all the way to 8.2%.  Reference:  Profootball focus stats.

    For those wanting TB to throw more 20yrd passes, please rethink that.  It's great to have the threat of a long ball, but attempting them more often, will certainly lead to more ints.

    4 times as many as compared to 0-10 yrd passes.

    Whether or not the quarterback is under pressure also contributes. Well-protected quarterbacks throw interceptions 2.56% of the time. If under pressure, however, that number goes to 3.90%. It makes sense in that quarterbacks generally make poorer decisions when facing pressure.  Again, Profootball focus, stats

    Most errors happen AFTER the ball leaves the QB's hands but what happens BEFORE can have an influence, too.  IE. Offensive line breakdown.

    These are just a few influencing factors in determining when and when not a QB is at fault.

    As you can plainly see (if you open your eyes) more often than not, they ARE NOT!

    These stats apply to all QB's in all games.  Tom Brady, just happens to be one of them.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats should consider a return to a ball control offense...

    In response to pezz4pats's comment:

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Since 2005, 32 TDs and 19 INTs in the postseason is nowhere near 2:1.

    Tears!  Phatty Virgin is so dumb he doesn't what ratios are! bahwhah!  Cannot be made up. Can't.

     

     

     



    Three less picks and it's 2:1.  I'd say that's a lot closer to "near" than "nowhere near".

     

     

     

     

     



    40 TDs, and 20 INTs would be 2:1.  Regardless, that's still a bad ratio because that is way too many picks, especially when you consider in the 2011 divisionals vs a bad Denver team, BRady had a bloated stat line of 6 TDs and 0 INTs.

     

     

    So, even that is misleading. Why do I care if he has 6 TDs vs Denver and then 0 TDs and 2 INTs the next week in the title game vs Baltimore?  I care more that he was so awful after throwing 6 TDs the week before!  You should, too, but you're a troll and not a Pats fan, hence why you're playing these games.

    Look at this way, take out his best and worst games from 2005-2012 and his ratio is 24 TDs, 15 INTs.

    Anyway you cut it, that's not good.  He's 6 TDs off from getting it to 2:1.

    Then, you look at his AFC title games or SBs where he faces the better defenses and still isn't good.

    Just forget it. You can't change history or facts.




    Here's some history and facts for you.

     

    If you actually did some research ( and left your unnatural hate for TB out of it) you would find that although interceptions are an integral factor in deciding winners and losers, they are NOT a good indication of QB play.

    In essence, raw INT stats show a highly distorted picture.

    More often than not, INTS are the fault of the receiver.

    Ints occur on roughly 3% of all throws.  That means good throws and bad throws.  It's what happens after the fact that determines whether that good or bad throw is completed or an in-completion or an interception.  A receiver can catch a bad pass,  drop a good one or he can let a perfect pass clang off his helmet, resulting in an int.

    Since (most) nfl QB's throw more good throws than bad, it stands to reason that more good throws are intercepted than bad, simply because there are more of them.

      IE.  Receiver error.

    There are also more influencing factors than simply a bad throw and or receiver error.

    Stats show that:  Game time situation plays a major role in influencing the 3% of all throws that end up being intercepted.

    Three times as many ints are thrown in the last 2 minutes in a half as apposed to the rest of the game.  Defenses know passes are coming and that gives them a distinct advantage. Also the O is probably going to be a little more reckless in their attempt to get a quick score.

    The distance the ball is thrown affects interception numbers. In 2010, balls thrown behind the line of scrimmage were intercepted just 1.1% of the time. Between 0-10 yards, the interception rate went up to 2.0%. From 10-20 yards, it doubled again to 4.0%, and for passes over 20 yards, it jumps all the way to 8.2%.  Reference:  Profootball focus stats.

    For those wanting TB to throw more 20yrd passes, please rethink that.  It's great to have the threat of a long ball, but attempting them more often, will certainly lead to more ints.

    4 times as many as compared to 0-10 yrd passes.

    Whether or not the quarterback is under pressure also contributes. Well-protected quarterbacks throw interceptions 2.56% of the time. If under pressure, however, that number goes to 3.90%. It makes sense in that quarterbacks generally make poorer decisions when facing pressure.  Again, Profootball focus, stats

    These are just a few influencing factors in determining when and when not a QB is at fault.

    As you can plainly see (if you open your eyes) more often than not, they ARE NOT!

    These stats apply to all QB's in all games.  Tom Brady, just happens to be one of them.



    Doh!

     

    Se ya Rusty!  Cant wait to see your New name...lol

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share