Pats should part with Wilfork.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I'm keeping Wilfork, Gregory I'm hoping he goes to the Jets. One of the worst Safeties, I have ever seen play. He hurts McCourty.




    I will drive Gregory to the airport if that will help.



    I'll pay for the gas if needed. anything to get rid of this guy




    LOL!

    Ok, we are all on standby.  Just give us the word BB.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    This Team needs a Kick-butt, Smashmouth, Dirty Talking, Safety with a BRAIN in the WORST way.




    I'm all for that!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Yeah, this is a tough one.  No doubt something is going to be done with Wilfork's $11.6 million cap hit for 2014.  Saving $7.5 mill would be huge but I sure would hate to cut the big guy and have to fill his spot with someone else.  If his rehab goes well and can be ready for next season then rework his deal.   



    Wilfork is one of the extremely rare players the Pats have "taken care of". It was Seymour or Wilfork...and they chose, and paid him VERY well. He's a true mainstay in this community. The guy follows his heart...look at his wife. I'm not trying to be a dck, but he's an all-pro level professional football player...he could marry a model if he WANTED to. But he didn't. He married a wonderful woman who is a great mother and wife from all accounts, and has a very strong family dynamic. Another way he is truly a rare example of a football player.

    He got paid VERY well in 2010. He's made probably around 32 million of the 40 total, 25 was guaranteed.

    If he doesn't rework his deal...he wil be 2014 version of Lawyer Milloy.

    If he does that, no team is going to pony up huge money for him given the injury he just had. So he'd be playing on a one-year deal to prove himself before re-entering free agency.

    At THIS point in his career...I don't see that as very likely.

    I think it very likely he will rework his deal to bring that cap number WAY down, and will add a few years, and have another chunk in the form of a signing bonus, which would be spread over those 3 hypothetical years. Something around 3/18, 10 guaranteed. That would take Vince, a large nose tackle, to 35 years old. I could see my above contract being worked so 2/12 could be swallowed if he totally falls apart.

    He is to the Pats what Tedy Bruschi was, and seems to have a similar metality. I guess we shall find out in time.




    I agree.  Did you see the piece with him and his wife on 60 minutes sports on Showtime?  It was good.  They know the possibilities that could happen due to his current contract situation.  I could see him there coaching if he isn't able to physically make it back or even down the road. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to Footballexpert45's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

    I'd rather them rework his deal, I don't want to see this guy end up on the jets or Miami under a cheap contract and then hold our average running backs to 2 yards a carry, because that's what will happen if he's healthy. He will destroy guys like Connoly, Wendell and Mankins...you can bet on that...and never mind if he falls on Brady.

    But man 7.5 million in cap space is a big amount, but lets say you could have both Vince and a younger talent for 7.5 million...wouldn't that be better, because if you can get him to restructure that is what you may have. If you cut him and sign someone (and they don't work out), it wasn't worth it.

    I think they like Vince a lot, if not they'd cut him in a second, but Vince means something to the locker room.



    I see too many holes on this defense, the Pats need Talib and another cover corner.  Safety is and issues and I still don't see a pass rush.

    I'm not even talking about the WR position.  Quality players won't come cheap, and the Pats did get to the AFC championship without Vince.

    With Aaron Hernandez counting over 7 mill agains the cap next season, the Pats can ill afford putting too much money in one player on the downside of his career.



    Well yeah I wouldn't keep Vince at what they owe him - so I agree with you - but they aren't going to keep him at that price.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dfitzp. Show dfitzp's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    I thought Vince's play took a big step back this year before the injury. I remember Nick Mangold really getting the best of Vince, I was very surprised. Vince looked the heaviest I have ever seen him this past year. He is listed at 6'2" around 330lbs, that's pretty close to what Saliga is listed at. Vince has to have 40 to 50 pounds on him. A guy in his mid 30's that is north of 350lbs coming off a major injury like a torn achiles has a huge uphill battle. His job is to occupy 2 guys and hold his own at the point of attack. Vince may never have the confidence to trust his achiles to hold up. He may never have the ability to explode off that foot like he once did. His salary should be reworked, maybe make it more incentive laden. But to be honest, I don't expect to see the same Vince from 2 or 3 yrs ago. And we can't afford to pay him the same salary as two or 3 yrs ago.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    I do not have any confidence that Belichick can build a great defense. 


    We have had a pathetic defense for the past 5 years.  A good defense has a pass rush and good safeties, cornerback. We have neither. 

    Our defense has suffered a major meltdown for 2 years after Talib went out. There is no depth. Surrendering 8 straight scoring drives to the Broncos is quiet a fear. 

    How many draft busts has Belichick had on defense?  Dozens.  Still hasn't drafted an elite pass rusher, cornerback or safety in the past 10 years. Now thats embarassing. 

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I'm keeping Wilfork, Gregory I'm hoping he goes to the Jets. One of the worst Safeties, I have ever seen play. He hurts McCourty.




    I will drive Gregory to the airport if that will help.



    take McCourty too tfb12, he can't make plays either!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.


    do a rework. keep him long enough to get the d-line strengthed with the youth, and don't have him play alot of downs.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to NOISE's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I'm keeping Wilfork, Gregory I'm hoping he goes to the Jets. One of the worst Safeties, I have ever seen play. He hurts McCourty.

     will drive Gregory to the airport if that will help.



    take McCourty too tfb12, he can't make plays either!



    McCourtys cap hit actually just increased to over $5M due to him reaching playing time incentives.

    The bump in pay for him actually put the Pats over the cap for 2014 with a projection of $126M. (per Reiss)  If it's not that high, say $124M, they are about $4M over, not counting any additional dead money which is sure to happen.

    They are going to have to do several restructures and or cuts to have enough just to sign rookies, never mind FA's.

      They are not in great shape, despite having the greatest GM of all times.  LOL

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Spetznaz24. Show Spetznaz24's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to NOISE's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I'm keeping Wilfork, Gregory I'm hoping he goes to the Jets. One of the worst Safeties, I have ever seen play. He hurts McCourty.

     will drive Gregory to the airport if that will help.



    take McCourty too tfb12, he can't make plays either!



    McCourtys cap hit actually just increased to over $5M due to him reaching playing time incentives.

    The bump in pay for him actually put the Pats over the cap for 2014 with a projection of $126M. (per Reiss)  If it's not that high, say $124M, they are about $4M over, not counting any additional dead money which is sure to happen.

    They are going to have to do several restructures and or cuts to have enough just to sign rookies, never mind FA's.

      They are not in great shape, despite having the greatest GM of all times.  LOL




    The genius gave a $30 million contract to Amendola.

    Everyone laughed at the signing, knowing he would always be hurt.  

    If Austin Collie was on the roster for 16 games, his production would exceed Amendola's,  all for only a veterans minimum.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to Footballexpert45's comment:

    According to Patscap:

    Cutting or trading Wilfork would save about 7.5 mill, if the Pats are going to build a defense I would release or possibly trade Wilfork.  The Pats can use that money on Talib and another cover corner.  And maybe get a decent safety.  

    Steven Gregory woud be another as he looks useless out there, he would give another 2mill in savings.  

    Although, he won't get cut McCourtney costs the Pats over 3 mill against the cap for little to no production.

     

    In the end, Wilfork needs to go as his best years are well behind him.



    Any OP with the words "wilfork needs to go" in it is just dumb.

    Couple this statement with the other negligent one about McCourty and you have struck out. Mccourty lead the NFL in passes defensed by a safety and was the only Pats player voted on Profootballfocus.coms Pro Bowl team, which is 10 times more relevant then the popularity contest pro bowl selections as pff focuses solely on your on field production.

    DMC is a top 3 safety in the league.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to Spetznaz24's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to NOISE's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    I'm keeping Wilfork, Gregory I'm hoping he goes to the Jets. One of the worst Safeties, I have ever seen play. He hurts McCourty.

     will drive Gregory to the airport if that will help.



    take McCourty too tfb12, he can't make plays either!



    McCourtys cap hit actually just increased to over $5M due to him reaching playing time incentives.

    The bump in pay for him actually put the Pats over the cap for 2014 with a projection of $126M. (per Reiss)  If it's not that high, say $124M, they are about $4M over, not counting any additional dead money which is sure to happen.

    They are going to have to do several restructures and or cuts to have enough just to sign rookies, never mind FA's.

      They are not in great shape, despite having the greatest GM of all times.  LOL




    The genius gave a $30 million contract to Amendola.

    Everyone laughed at the signing, knowing he would always be hurt.  

    If Austin Collie was on the roster for 16 games, his production would exceed Amendola's,  all for only a veterans minimum.




    Not to mention Edelman who they may have to part with because they gave the dkless wonder all that stash..

    Terrible how Mathew Mulligam got more passes then DA, last week.  Even caught one. LOL

    Way too many bad contracts/moves, catching up.

    Going to be a interesting off-season.  Oh, well, wait and see and hope for the best.

    Unfortunately, I think we've already seen it.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    Unless there is another Vince Wilfork in the draft they need to keep him.  He was the single biggest loss for the Pats this year injury wise. I don't count Gronkowski because he is always injured.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to dfitzp's comment:

    I thought Vince's play took a big step back this year before the injury. I remember Nick Mangold really getting the best of Vince, I was very surprised. Vince looked the heaviest I have ever seen him this past year. He is listed at 6'2" around 330lbs, that's pretty close to what Saliga is listed at. Vince has to have 40 to 50 pounds on him. A guy in his mid 30's that is north of 350lbs coming off a major injury like a torn achiles has a huge uphill battle. His job is to occupy 2 guys and hold his own at the point of attack. Vince may never have the confidence to trust his achiles to hold up. He may never have the ability to explode off that foot like he once did. His salary should be reworked, maybe make it more incentive laden. But to be honest, I don't expect to see the same Vince from 2 or 3 yrs ago. And we can't afford to pay him the same salary as two or 3 yrs ago.



    I agree, and with this injury at his age no one should expect the same Vince when the Pats drafted him.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to Footballexpert45's comment:

    According to Patscap:

    Cutting or trading Wilfork would save about 7.5 mill, if the Pats are going to build a defense I would release or possibly trade Wilfork.  The Pats can use that money on Talib and another cover corner.  And maybe get a decent safety.  

    Steven Gregory woud be another as he looks useless out there, he would give another 2mill in savings.  

    Although, he won't get cut McCourtney costs the Pats over 3 mill against the cap for little to no production.

     

    In the end, Wilfork needs to go as his best years are well behind him.



    Any OP with the words "wilfork needs to go" in it is just dumb.

    Couple this statement with the other negligent one about McCourty and you have struck out. Mccourty lead the NFL in passes defensed by a safety and was the only Pats player voted on Profootballfocus.coms Pro Bowl team, which is 10 times more relevant then the popularity contest pro bowl selections as pff focuses solely on your on field production.

    DMC is a top 3 safety in the league.



    McCourty looks great against the Bill and Browns of the world, but I didn't see much out of him in the AFC championship and Manning.  Remember, he was supposed to be a CB but was demoted to Safety.  The Pats need to invest in players that showup in the big games.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to stillgridlocked's comment:

    Unless there is another Vince Wilfork in the draft they need to keep him.  He was the single biggest loss for the Pats this year injury wise. I don't count Gronkowski because he is always injured.



    The Pats need a pass rush and DB's that can cover.  this is a pass happy league and the defense need to adjust for the times.  The Pats made it to the AFC championship without Vince for much of the season, but if he had played against Denver he wouldn't have changed the outcome.  

    I solid pass rush might have.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Footballexpert45. Show Footballexpert45's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    This Team needs a Kick-butt, Smashmouth, Dirty Talking, Safety with a BRAIN in the WORST way.



    POLLARD or WHITNER! both can cover decent, and play the run well and can hit like mo fo'sss



    Why Pollard wasn't playing for the Pats this season is beyond me, he was just sitting out there for the taking, instead BB decided to pay Adrian Wilson.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    The Pats cannot trade Vince, as the new team would then assume his $11M contract. Not happening

    cutting Vince, saves $7.5M as mentioned, but cutting Vince also creates $4M in dead money. The scenario of what is owed to Vince,a nd the CAP projections the next few years perfectly allow a restructure for the pats to keep Vince 3 more years affordably. 

    The question is not can the pats afford him, or will he restructure. The question is can he still play post injury.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

    In response to crazy-world-of-troybrown's comment:

    This Team needs a Kick-butt, Smashmouth, Dirty Talking, Safety with a BRAIN in the WORST way.



    POLLARD or WHITNER! both can cover decent, and play the run well and can hit like mo fo'sss



    If Pollard could do anything other than hit decent, maybe he'd stick with a team longer than a year.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    Assuming Vince can regain some of his past effectiveness I think a restructuring is in order and is quite likely.  Under no circumstances do I believe that it is a good move to simply cut him for all of the cap/dead money conseuqences mentioned as well as what he brings to the team.

    The argument that he does nothing for the pass rush is an empty one.  Vince takes up two blockers whether it's run or pass.  That in and of itself adds to the effectiveness of the pass rush.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to Spetznaz24's comment:

    I do not have any confidence that Belichick can build a great defense. 


    We have had a pathetic defense for the past 5 years.  A good defense has a pass rush and good safeties, cornerback. We have neither. 

    Our defense has suffered a major meltdown for 2 years after Talib went out. There is no depth. Surrendering 8 straight scoring drives to the Broncos is quiet a fear. 

    How many draft busts has Belichick had on defense?  Dozens.  Still hasn't drafted an elite pass rusher, cornerback or safety in the past 10 years. Now thats embarassing. 

     



    I couldn't agree LESS.

    The D, THIS YEAR, looked VERY good until about the 4th significant injury to a starter.

    Jones, Collins, Hightower, McCourty, Mayo, Ninkovich, Ryan, Dennard....hopefully add Talib, WIlfork is some semblence of his former self, and that's the start to a very good D. They proved it this year.

    Rookie of the year at CB, Pro Bowl ar Safety...what does McCourty have to do, be Ed Reed? That kind of expectation is outrageous.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to Spetznaz24's comment:

    I do not have any confidence that Belichick can build a great defense. 


    We have had a pathetic defense for the past 5 years.  A good defense has a pass rush and good safeties, cornerback. We have neither. 

    Our defense has suffered a major meltdown for 2 years after Talib went out. There is no depth. Surrendering 8 straight scoring drives to the Broncos is quiet a fear. 

    How many draft busts has Belichick had on defense?  Dozens.  Still hasn't drafted an elite pass rusher, cornerback or safety in the past 10 years. Now thats embarassing. 

     



    And Jones just had 11.5 sacks in his SECOND YEAR (sophmore slump?) after being referred to as "extremely raw" in his first year.

    You've had a lot more busts in that one post that BB has had in a career of drafting.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    In response to Spetznaz24's comment:

    I do not have any confidence that Belichick can build a great defense. 


    We have had a pathetic defense for the past 5 years.  A good defense has a pass rush and good safeties, cornerback. We have neither. 

    Our defense has suffered a major meltdown for 2 years after Talib went out. There is no depth. Surrendering 8 straight scoring drives to the Broncos is quiet a fear. 

    How many draft busts has Belichick had on defense?  Dozens.  Still hasn't drafted an elite pass rusher, cornerback or safety in the past 10 years. Now thats embarassing. 

     



    And Jones just had 11.5 sacks in his SECOND YEAR (sophmore slump?) after being referred to as "extremely raw" in his first year.

    You've had a lot more busts in that one post that BB has had in a career of drafting.



    +1

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to Footballexpert45's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

     

    I hope Wilfork re-works his deal and stays. Perhaps gets more rest during the season and Silga, or others, slowly take over. I think he's still valuable. It also remains to be seen how he looks come the 3rd week of July.

     



    I'd bet on this.... a fair deal between both parties adding on 2/3 years averaging around 5 mill per year.  

     



    At this point in his career, injuries will be an issue.  And 5 mill a year for a player that not might make it through the season seems a bit much.



    Who the h ell is McCourtney?  I'd agree that McCourtney guy was non-productive--he didn't see the field once.  Devin McCourty, on the other hand, is a competent safety and is going nowhere,

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Pats should part with Wilfork.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    Assuming Vince can regain some of his past effectiveness I think a restructuring is in order and is quite likely.  Under no circumstances do I believe that it is a good move to simply cut him for all of the cap/dead money conseuqences mentioned as well as what he brings to the team.

    The argument that he does nothing for the pass rush is an empty one.  Vince takes up two blockers whether it's run or pass.  That in and of itself adds to the effectiveness of the pass rush.



    Good post and agree. Big question as you and rkarp pointed out,is, will Vince be able,to,go at similar intensity? Will he still be able to occupy 2 OL? Will he be as dominant against the run? 

    If we are getting back a shadow of what Vince was, paying him his full owed salary doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I would fully expect a restructure. The fact is as Pezz pointed out, the pats have to do several restructures or cuts just to fit under the cap and sign rooks, so reworking Vince makes all the sense in the world. 

     
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