Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to ipotnyc's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Talib has definitely had some issues.  I don't think BB would jump the gun and not take that into consideration in making the move for him.  If they get even a season and a half of solid production from him before his next incident, then it's a win deal.

    RESPONSE: Talib has some issues??? This guy has been a walking, talking issue since his college days.

    No guarantee a 4th round pick will be a Aaron Hernandez or - yikes- a Jonathan Wihlite.

    RESPONSE: Remember how BB found himself in a bind in last years' draft, because the Patriots were left with no picks after round 2? Well, the Pats have already thrown away their 5th and 6th rounders in the Ocho and Haynesworth deals...and now their 4th rounder as well. 

    Bedard calls this a "desperation move."  Why?  He's got an abundance of talent and the secondary is sorely lacking.  It's called an UPGRADE.  From Schiano, a coach BB respects.  Desperation moves are picking guys up off the street.

    RESPONSE: This is a desperation move. It really concerns me, because it tells me that BB thinks that his secondary is as bad or worse than we do. BB didn't just trade for a Corey Dillon or a Randy Moss...who were moody guys, rather than thugs. Talib is a mental case: http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/gary-shelton-time-for-buccaneers-to-cut-aqib-talib-loose/1256333

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pats Lifer - great call on Haynsworth.  That is what this reminds me of.

     

    That is why I am saying he is not on the roster for long.

    [/QUOTE]

    NE didn't lose anything in the Hayensworth transaction either. So no harm no foul there. 

    It's worth a chance. 

    The secondary is in shambles -- none to very few of the selections BB has made back there have become a dependable player.

    It's the weakest link on the team .... and if this guy could be the one to actually make a game changing pick against a quality team in the clutch, or break up/finish a game off for New England i the playoffs, then they've done more toward ending their drought by getting him on the cheap than they have since draftting Jones. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to TexasPat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ipotnyc's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Talib has definitely had some issues.  I don't think BB would jump the gun and not take that into consideration in making the move for him.  If they get even a season and a half of solid production from him before his next incident, then it's a win deal.

    RESPONSE: Talib has some issues??? This guy has been a walking, talking issue since his college days.

    No guarantee a 4th round pick will be a Aaron Hernandez or - yikes- a Jonathan Wihlite.

    RESPONSE: Remember how BB found himself in a bind in last years' draft, because the Patriots were left with no picks after round 2? Well, the Pats have already thrown away their 5th and 6th rounders in the Ocho and Haynesworth deals...and now their 4th rounder as well. 

    Bedard calls this a "desperation move."  Why?  He's got an abundance of talent and the secondary is sorely lacking.  It's called an UPGRADE.  From Schiano, a coach BB respects.  Desperation moves are picking guys up off the street.

    RESPONSE: This is a desperation move. It really concerns me, because it tells me that BB thinks that his secondary is as bad or worse than we do. BB didn't just trade for a Corey Dillon or a Randy Moss...who were moody guys, rather than thugs. Talib is a mental case: http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/gary-shelton-time-for-buccaneers-to-cut-aqib-talib-loose/1256333

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    To be fair TP it's a win now mentality at this point. Brady's window is closing and I don't see it as a desperation move so much as a, we have a SB caliber team this year but with a major achiles heel. Yes Talib is a head case but it's not like they are extending him (I hope they don't). Talib is a move where he has to be on his best behavior for the rest of the year or no one will sign him next year. So, maybe BB is just hoping to get the half of year out of him and catch lighting in a bottle. If it works it's well worth a 4th round pick, if it doesn't then it was just as good of a shot to take as drafting a player in the 4th honestly. The Pats have rebuilt everything on the team and have a very young team except in the DB core (rebuilt wise not youth wise). Honestly in the 4th what would the odds of finding a starting caliber CB be? Yes this move carries risks but the pay off could far outweight it in the end, esp since we don't need a ton of picks this up coimng draft given the youth currently on the team

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pats Lifer - great call on Haynsworth.  That is what this reminds me of.

     

    That is why I am saying he is not on the roster for long.

    [/QUOTE]

    NE didn't lose anything in the Hayensworth transaction either. So no harm no foul there. 

    It's worth a chance. 

    The secondary is in shambles -- none to very few of the selections BB has made back there have become a dependable player.

    It's the weakest link on the team .... and if this guy could be the one to actually make a game changing pick against a quality team in the clutch, or break up/finish a game off for New England i the playoffs, then they've done more toward ending their drought by getting him on the cheap than they have since draftting Jones. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree... I am not expecting great things (there are some people who seem to think Talib instantly make this defense so much better). I do hope he is better than what we have been putting out there, but there is little risk. Even if he cannot straighten himself out or produce on the field, there is no way he is going to make the team worse.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    Why are people concerned about the 4th round being too high of a pick? How many wasted 2nd round pics have we had in the past 5 years or so?  I hate when I see people go all crazy over a stupid 2nd day pick that probably wont bring anything back over a guy who already has NFL experience and can play. I mean I dont care what pic they would have given up because from rounds 1 -4 we have found a way to draft busts anyway so isnt it a better bet to use the pic on a player who HAS had success in the league. Screw the off field stuff. He was in florida. IN NE he wont get into anything and it didnt keep BB from drafting Meriweather who also shot at someone in college but wasnt worth the pic in hindsight. I liked M.Griffin but anyway....use the pics to make ur team better. Last 4th rounder we traded worked out right?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    We traded a 4th round pick for a 1st round talent who is nearing the age where he either grows up or out of the league.  This isn't desperation, this is Ras Dowling our "big" cover corner getting injured and BB replacing him.  

    Anyone who thinks we aren't going to continue to give up yards, like this is some magic solution to a problem is deluding themselves, giving up yards is part of the scheme we run.  

    The defense is getting better anyway with or without Talib, so when you see a marked improvement on defense understand that it's because of improved and increased pressure upfront, not some magic player that is curing all our defensive woes.  This is a low risk high reward move, there is no downside.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    This guy is Asante Samuel with tackling ability. He is a QB reader which NONE of our CBs can do, meaning we wont be screaming at him to turn his head around. He is an off Man to man cover like Asante although he can press better than Asante if need be. HE makes the kinds of plays that Asante made in the Bears game when he is playing his own man and looking in at the QB, he comes off his man and makes an INT on slot player running an inside route. There are only a handful of players Ive seen do this and He has done it twice. So I WILL TAKE THAT! 

     

    Our guys dont even make plays on the guys they ARE covering and this guy can read Qbs and break on balls. Will he give up some buy gambling? maybe, but he will make more plays then he gives up which is much more than we can say for unmm Kyle Arrington was the starter coming in. Guy cant cover his mouth with his hand this year so guys need to chillax and realize its a necessary and smart move that could pay off big in the form of a title..

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why are people concerned about the 4th round being too high of a pick? How many wasted 2nd round pics have we had in the past 5 years or so?  I hate when I see people go all crazy over a stupid 2nd day pick that probably wont bring anything back over a guy who already has NFL experience and can play. I mean I dont care what pic they would have given up because from rounds 1 -4 we have found a way to draft busts anyway so isnt it a better bet to use the pic on a player who HAS had success in the league. Screw the off field stuff. He was in florida. IN NE he wont get into anything and it didnt keep BB from drafting Meriweather who also shot at someone in college but wasnt worth the pic in hindsight. I liked M.Griffin but anyway....use the pics to make ur team better. Last 4th rounder we traded worked out right?

    [/QUOTE]

    I could care less about the pick they gave up to get him. I just think people should temper expectations for what he is going to bring to this team. Even at his best, he was never one of the top corners in the league. However, is better than anyone the Patriots had out there this year. 

    It is going to be a couple weeks before we even see him play. It is not like the Bucs were shutting teams down with Talib in the lineup this year. 

    I think the pick is totally worth the any risk involved. The defensive backfield on this team was just plain bad, at least they admitted it and are trying to make it better!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We traded a 4th round pick for a 1st round talent who is nearing the age where he either grows up or out of the league.  This isn't desperation, this is Ras Dowling our "big" cover corner getting injured and BB replacing him.  

    Anyone who thinks we aren't going to continue to give up yards, like this is some magic solution to a problem is deluding themselves, giving up yards is part of the scheme we run.  

    The defense is getting better anyway with or without Talib, so when you see a marked improvement on defense understand that it's because of improved and increased pressure upfront, not some magic player that is curing all our defensive woes.  This is a low risk high reward move, there is no downside.

    [/QUOTE]


    Are we going to give up yards, yes, but we will be giving up less big plays for sure. When you look at this move you have to look how it affects the whole secondary. Dennard is playing like a starter (though is prone to mistakes every so often) and McCourty has found a role as a S which he seems well suited for. Talib is a starting caliber CB, maybe not a top 10 CB but certainly a top end #2 if not #1 CB in the league. What you are essentially replacing is:

    Gregory -> McCourty  This is an upgrade. McCourty was the best DB we had and moving him to S certainly upgrades the FS spot which will help the CB's underneath

    McCourty -> Talib   I love McCourty but this is an upgrade. Talib is a true #1/2 CB and brings more size and athletism to the table then McCourty. He should help stabilize one side of the field which allows McCourty to now cheat towards the other side adding additionally benefit to coverage

    Dennard -> Arrington   I understand that Dennard was most likely going to be a starter one way or the other but this move pushes Arrington out of the starting lineup and into a lesser more suited role. Again we find an upgrade

    Just by this one move they managed to upgrade 3 of the 4 starting positions in a weak secondary. This should have a fairly large impact compared to what they were giving previously. Heck if this eliminates even 1 extra score a game (even just a FG) then that's the difference right now between a 5-3 Pats team and a 8-0 Pats team

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This guy is Asante Samuel with tackling ability. He is a QB reader which NONE of our CBs can do, meaning we wont be screaming at him to turn his head around. He is an off Man to man cover like Asante although he can press better than Asante if need be. HE makes the kinds of plays that Asante made in the Bears game when he is playing his own man and looking in at the QB, he comes off his man and makes an INT on slot player running an inside route. There are only a handful of players Ive seen do this and He has done it twice. So I WILL TAKE THAT! 

     

    Our guys dont even make plays on the guys they ARE covering and this guy can read Qbs and break on balls. Will he give up some buy gambling? maybe, but he will make more plays then he gives up which is much more than we can say for unmm Kyle Arrington was the starter coming in. Guy cant cover his mouth with his hand this year so guys need to chillax and realize its a necessary and smart move that could pay off big in the form of a title..

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly. Under the right cirumstances, i.e., he comes to play, he could flourish here. I saw that in him four years ago when he was coming out of college. I still think it applies. 

    His skill set is compatible with what BB likes to do. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We traded a 4th round pick for a 1st round talent who is nearing the age where he either grows up or out of the league.  This isn't desperation, this is Ras Dowling our "big" cover corner getting injured and BB replacing him.  

    Anyone who thinks we aren't going to continue to give up yards, like this is some magic solution to a problem is deluding themselves, giving up yards is part of the scheme we run.  

    The defense is getting better anyway with or without Talib, so when you see a marked improvement on defense understand that it's because of improved and increased pressure upfront, not some magic player that is curing all our defensive woes.  This is a low risk high reward move, there is no downside.

    [/QUOTE]

    obviously, there were several factors involved in the Patriots two SB losses to the Giants; including bad game plan, bad play calling, turnovers, and anemic offense.  That being said, isn't it the same scheme that contributed with our defensive inability to get off the field during critical times in a game?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    "we traded a 4th round pick for a first round talent"....imo is not the point.

    The point is;

    1) the Pats used a 3rd rounder and a 4th rounder to move up in the draft to select Jones and Hightower. Thinking this year the PAts will pick 26th or later, and could need a 4th rounder to move up for need

    2) first round talent slips in the draft due to injury or personal issues. The Pats have done well in the mid to later rounds over the years

    3) a 4th round reurn for a player of Talib's talent but also his digressions might have been fair, but not for 7 games.   

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    karp, im more concerned with winning now over not being able to move in next years draft. I mean cmon, thats the whole point. BB has done better with trading pics for Players (Wes,Moss, Talib?) then drafting them.. so who cares about next years draft?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "we traded a 4th round pick for a first round talent"....imo is not the point.

    The point is;

    1) the Pats used a 3rd rounder and a 4th rounder to move up in the draft to select Jones and Hightower. Thinking this year the PAts will pick 26th or later, and could need a 4th rounder to move up for need

    2) first round talent slips in the draft due to injury or personal issues. The Pats have done well in the mid to later rounds over the years

    3) a 4th round reurn for a player of Talib's talent but also his digressions might have been fair, but not for 7 games.   

    [/QUOTE]


    This is true but a 3rd rounder in 14' is worth as much as a 4th rounder in 13'. If they needed to they could replace that pick with another future pick. Now, yes this is kicking the can down the road and we'll have to pay for it eventually but Brady's window is closing and we could be seeing the end before our eyes. This is the perfect time to have a win now mentalitity as if you really need to move up you can but a 3rd round pick in 2014 might be to late and Brady's SB career might be in twilight at that point. If Brady was younger I'd look at it the same way you are but at this point it has to be win it now when you can mentality

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    Prediction: New England leads Green bay in the Super Bowl 34-28 with :41 left. Green Bay is out of timeouts, and is driving. They are at the New England 35 and Aquib Talib picks off Aaron Rodgers to secure the Super Bowl win! TexasPat and all the posters here saying its a desperation move, then start a thread saying "we got to resign this guy!" HAHAHAHA Hey a guy can dream can't he?!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    karp, im more concerned with winning now over not being able to move in next years draft. I mean cmon, thats the whole point. BB has done better with trading pics for Players (Wes,Moss, Talib?) then drafting them.. so who cares about next years draft?

    [/QUOTE]

    that wasnt the point I was making. My point is that a 4th is high for a question mark such as Talib, and for 7 games at that, and was some one more stable available for that 4th rd pick.

    Talib is a veteran that upgrades the position. Is he smart enough to stay in the game?

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    My guess is as good as yours, but as with every case, there is a reason a good player is available midseason. Moss, Dillon, etc. I just like the fact that he is instantly our best CB and if he helps us win a SB by solidifying the back end, then I wouldnt care what happend to him after that. To me a 4th rd pick for 7 week plus rental is good if it helps to fix the problem. Now there is not garauntee we win it all with a good secondary but I would garauntee we WOULDNT with the current group and BB agrees so...   Like I said. How much of a bad trade is 4th rounder for half year when u look at Bodden being released one year into his deal,. didnt get picked up so we still payed him. Wheatley may have well been credited for ONE game vs the Colts and he was a 2nd round pick....U see what im saying...?

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    I love all these comments about "The Patriot Way"......who are you kidding? The "Patriot Way" hasn't proved $hit since 2004.

    This isn't rocket science folks. The guy is clearly a head case, that has all the talent to be a pro-bowl corner. I just don't care about his past....what I care about is what he does here and now.

    Is he a punk? Yep....no doubt. Will he act out again? NOBODY really knows that answer. All I know is that we might have just aquired 1st round talent, for a 4th round pick. I could care less what this guy puts into his system as long as he can cover WRs.

    The "Patriot Way" doesn't mean squat anymore.....we have pulled many head cases in here that didn't quite fit the mold. Some have been great additions, and other were sent packing. Only time will tell with this kid.....but IMO, it's a risk well worth taking, "Patriot Way" or not....

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Of course it does. The enviroment is clearly about the Patriot Way. You don't fit, you're gone. BB dealt Moss for that reason.

    It's about the environment overall, not the idea that 100% of all players on the roster are angels.

    Bryan Cox was no angel. Many players he's brought in had some iffy questions. Dillon, Moss, etc, etc.  Generally speaking, the Patriot Way absolutely exists, to the run of two SBs lost in the last 7 years via a finesse, failed offense that has nothing to do with this concept anyway. I'd say 2009 was the weakest period for that Patriot Way being challenged, because it happened on the heels of the base of players moving on (retirement or trade) during the transition.

    All Kraft cares about is if you buy into the team first philiosophy and keep your nose clean. Make no mistake, this kid's career is now on the line. Might be the best move he's ever made in his life. I am sure Schiano told him that.

    The Patriot Way is a media coined term, but it also works and many other fanbases are VERY jealous that the respect Kraft, BB and Brady command is VERY real.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Neal, you apparently have a memory like an elephant. You supposedly know everything about anything as well. Throw out the Patriot way. When was the last time a #4 was traded for a player for 7 games?

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to Neal Page's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What?  Moss was dealt in Week 4 before Minny;s Bye week, so BB fleeced Minny there. 

    It's rare, but we've seen plenty of players dealt for mid rd picks midway through a season. God forbid BB do things to improve or attempt to improve his team whether it's dealing Moss in 2010/acquiring Branch or this move here.

    Keep in mind, we're still waiting on our offense to be there when the chips are on the table.

     [/QUOTE]

    BB definitely fleeced Minnesota in the Moss deal. Hopefully, we are not on the wrong end of this deal since we got the troublemaking player and Tampa got the mid-round pick.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Pats trade for tampa's Talib!!!

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You got to wonder how the pats lockerroom feels about this? I am sure they will publicly tote the company line, but I got to think guys know he is a knucklehead. 

    Persoannly I am not worried by him getting into trouble....he is gone...it's the potential negative effect it could have in the lockwroom that concernS me. 

    This moron got into a fistfight with a teamate of his during the rookie thing the nfl does every year for new guys. I just hope if he is feeling frisky he decides to go off on spikes and not a guy like Brady, this guy is a ticking timebomb and although he has talent, he also has the potential to be more trouble than hauls worth and a detriment to the lockwroom....see fat Albert, adelius, etc...

    [/QUOTE]


    If I were in the locker room and this guy came in I would be glad considering our secondary is KILLING us with stink.

     

    It would be worth a few fights to see an improvement.

     

    BTW, what did Fat Albert do besides smell up the field? And Thomas was sent packing when he started getting rambunctious. Career OVER, LMAO@him.

     

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