Pees needs to go.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from msteven. Show msteven's posts

    Pees needs to go.

    I have been watching the Patriots for a long time.  I remember when BB took the team over.  They were not very good, but he got everything he could out of them.  I watched them win the Superbowls.  One factor that made their defense so good was that they adapted.  I do not see that now.  They give up too many long drives.  They give up too many third downs.  There is one factor that has not changed in all this time.  That is Pees as the defensive coordinator.   The final minutes of the 2006 conference championship.  The defense of run over.  The final minutes of the 2007 Superbowl.  The defense was run over.  I do not see any changes happening to the defense during the games.  No adjustments. 
    It is time to send Pees packing. Time to bring in a new defensive coordinator.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasonh86. Show jasonh86's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    While I don't think that he needs to go, I do agree that something needs to change.

    I do see that they're making adjustments as the game goes along, but those late drives are killing us.  We could have easily lost to Baltimore because we couldn't stop it, we just got a great individual effort from Butler on 3rd down and lucky on 4th down (the dropped wide open pass). 

    I keep getting deja vu when I see the final drives.. AFC Championship vs Colts, SB vs. Giants, game against Bills (when they went ahead 24-13, altho that was aided by the Refs terrible call on Adalius), game against the Ravens, game against the Broncos.  We gave up a 95-yard drive and a 98-yard drive for scores in that game; that should have NEVER happened. 

    Makes me sick because I remember a few years ago we got the stop when we needed it; but now we can't seem to stop them at the end of the game.  It will come around as the new guys develop more and gain more experience, but until then i'd love to see something else happen.

    However, to be honest.. the last possession by the Broncos in regulation we did step up and make something happen on 3rd down.  Got great pressure and sacked Orton.  I think we need to see MORE pressure on the QB at the end of the game on those drives, force them into bad throws or sacks.  Not let them sit back all day and throw it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimKe. Show JimKe's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.


    I think you're pointing the finger at the wrong person.  This non-aggressive

    defense that gives 5 yard cushions to the wide receivers is not Pees's

    baby.  It is Bill Belichick's.  It is a defense that relys on perfect execution
     
    and the Patriots player are not good enough to carry it out.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcappy. Show jcappy's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    I've always found the bend don't break defense a bit curious in that it seems to pay no attention to field position.  And not much attention to 3rd down defense.  And yet we are always taught that these are the two most important factors in football???

    I guess that either one must acknowledge that football is changed or be satisfied with just scratching one's head.  Or maybe it's an admission that modern day offenses can only be stopped inside the shortened field of the red zone.  Very weird.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jedinate. Show jedinate's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    True, but just as worriesome is the O. We are making ZERO offensive adjustments, we look worse every second half, the other team adjusts, we stick with the status quo, whether it is working or not.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:
    True, but just as worriesome is the O. We are making ZERO offensive adjustments, we look worse every second half, the other team adjusts, we stick with the status quo, whether it is working or not.
    Posted by jedinate


    This defense NEEDS a more dangerous pass rush. They have proven they can take any one player out of the offenses arsenal. They have proven they can stop the run when the feel they need to. They have a very, very good secondary - best since Law teamed with Harrison. They have decent linebackers and good DL. But their pas rush is on and off and just not Dangerous enough to make the offense modify they game plan enough.

    It appears to me they have underestimated the need similar to the way they underestimated the weakness at receive when they traded Branch.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    To add just another word - if Brady gets his act together and stops mising critical big plays (open receivers for TDs and 1st downs) and if the rest of the O plays up to their ability it will make the D look great as they will be able to narrow their focus to shutting down the opponents passing game.

    Check the Jets game out as an example as well as this last game.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan24-7. Show Patsfan24-7's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    I dont agree that Pees needs to go. I think the defense as a whole, is still searching for its identity, 3-4? or 4-3? or nickel? 4 man rush or blitzing packages?

    Time will tell, but to me it looks like this years defense just plays better when blitzing, and applying good pressure on the quarterback. Dont forget guys, this defense is kinda in a rebuilding stage, with that said, our defense is still playing well enough for us to win games, our offense just needs to execute better and win the tim of possesion then everything will be fine.

    I like our defense, it might be a little shaky this year but the future looks bright.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasonh86. Show jasonh86's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    You made a good point.  We need to improve our time of possession on offense; if we can win that battle and get back to being more efficient and Brady to return to form we'll be a formidable foe for anyone.

    If we can build those leads that we've been missing on then that will allow the defense to pin their ears back and go after the QB.  In 2007 we always seemed to jump out ahead quick, then our defense was just let loose to terrorize the other teams offense.. it wasn't that it was a great D, it just benefited from a dominant offense that put other teams in big holes quickly.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    I think people are drastically overracting to the defense. Both 90+ yard drives could have been stopped if on the first 90+ drive, Wilhite had gotten out of the way and let Meriweather catch an INT, and on the second drive if someone on defense had moved to the ball when Nincovich slapped it up in the air. In OT, we didn't play with urgency. We should've Blitz on all sets of downs. The Defense got the ball back to the NE offense 3 times in the fourth quarter. 

    1st time was a 3 and out.
    2nd time was a Brady Fumble
    3rd time only left 17 seconds on the clock. 

    The Offense is the problem, not the defense.

    I only saw two problems with the defense last game. 

    1.) We didn't blitz enough. Orton got comfortable, had some fun. 
    2.) Either Pees or Belichick are a little worried that our secondaries can't cover the deep ball. The Cushion is just to protect agaisnt that. Bodden is a pressure corner. He usually plays bump and run. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dont-hate. Show dont-hate's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:
    I dont agree that Pees needs to go. I think the defense as a whole, is still searching for its identity, 3-4? or 4-3? or nickel?


    Good Point. To me this is the problem with the D. They have no identity. Dean Pees seems to make no adjustments, and in the Denver game there were at least 3 timeouts taken by BB because of the D not lining up in proper coverage.

    NFL.com has the PATs D ranked 11th overall in a tie with Seattle. This is nothing to cheer about, and will get us the Lombardi trophy.

    The Offense is playing out of sync for sure, and you have put points on the board in both halfs of the game, but D worries me too. Not for a lack of talent (Except maybe Derrick Burgess who is a bust in my opinion), but for a lack of identity, cohesiveness, adjustments, and fire. That is as much about coaching as it is about playmaking.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Pees needs to go.:
    I have been watching the Patriots for a long time.  I remember when BB took the team over.  They were not very good, but he got everything he could out of them.  I watched them win the Superbowls.  One factor that made their defense so good was that they adapted.  I do not see that now.  They give up too many long drives.  They give up too many third downs.  There is one factor that has not changed in all this time.  That is Pees as the defensive coordinator.   The final minutes of the 2006 conference championship.  The defense of run over.  The final minutes of the 2007 Superbowl.  The defense was run over.  I do not see any changes happening to the defense during the games.  No adjustments.  It is time to send Pees packing. Time to bring in a new defensive coordinator.
    Posted by msteven


    Dumb post....

    The Pats have been a top 10 defense since 2001.....they are one of the best defenses in the league right now.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:
    I think people are drastically overracting to the defense. Both 90+ yard drives could have been stopped if on the first 90+ drive, Wilhite had gotten out of the way and let Meriweather catch an INT, and on the second drive if someone on defense had moved to the ball when Nincovich slapped it up in the air. In OT, we didn't play with urgency. We should've Blitz on all sets of downs. The Defense got the ball back to the NE offense 3 times in the fourth quarter.  1st time was a 3 and out. 2nd time was a Brady Fumble 3rd time only left 17 seconds on the clock.  The Offense is the problem, not the defense. I only saw two problems with the defense last game.  1.) We didn't blitz enough. Orton got comfortable, had some fun.  2.) Either Pees or Belichick are a little worried that our secondaries can't cover the deep ball. The Cushion is just to protect agaisnt that. Bodden is a pressure corner. He usually plays bump and run. 
    Posted by 49Patriots



    BINGO!!!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    EastWLTPctPFPAHomeRoadDivConfStreak  
     New York Jets320.600101882-0-01-2-01-1-03-1-0Lost 2  
     New England Patriots320.600104913-0-00-2-01-1-02-2-0Lost 1  
     Miami Dolphins230.4001121062-1-00-2-02-0-02-2-0Won 2  
     Buffalo Bills140.200771161-2-00-2-00-2-00-3-0Lost 3  
     
     NorthWLTPctPFPAHomeRoadDivConfStreak  
     Cincinnati Bengals410.800101901-1-03-0-03-0-03-1-0Won 4  
     Baltimore Ravens320.600138972-1-01-1-01-1-03-2-0Lost 2  
     Pittsburgh Steelers320.600113982-0-01-2-00-1-02-1-0Won 2  
     Cleveland Browns140.200551210-2-01-2-00-2-01-3-0Won 1  
     
     SouthWLTPctPFPAHomeRoadDivConfStreak  
     Indianapolis Colts5001.000137712-0-03-0-02-0-03-0-0Won 5  
     Jacksonville Jaguars230.400971271-1-01-2-02-1-02-1-0Lost 1  
     Houston Texans230.4001151201-2-01-1-01-1-02-2-0Lost 1  
     Tennessee Titans050.000841390-2-00-3-00-3-00-5-0Lost 5  
     
     WestWLTPctPFPAHomeRoadDivConfStreak  
     Denver Broncos5001.00099433-0-02-0-01-0-04-0-0Won 5  
     San Diego Chargers220.5001011021-1-01-1-01-0-02-2-0Lost 1  
     Oakland Raiders140.200491300-2-01-2-01-2-01-3-0Lost 3  
     Kansas City Chiefs050.000841380-3-00-2-00-1-00-2-0Lost 5

    This is just the AFC.  New England has given up 91 points, 14 of which were surrendered by the offense.  Our D has given up 77 points!!  Holy Cow, doesn't Pees know he's not supposed to give up points!  Fire that bumb!  Waaa, waaa, waaa!!!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from threejak. Show threejak's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:

    To add just another word - if Brady gets his act together and stops mising critical big plays (open receivers for TDs and 1st downs) and if the rest of the O plays up to their ability it will make the D look great as they will be able to narrow their focus to shutting down the opponents passing game. Check the Jets game out as an example as well as this last game.
    Posted by portfolio1


    That's a BINGO!

    And if I might add a point or two.....

    Lot of really good  young athletes on the D-side of the ball but secondary looks a little tight for fear of giving up the points that aren't as easily replaced as in years past.  The Ty Law and Lawer Milloy mentality is zero at the moment but the tools are there and growning.  I look for these guys to create some carnage and take a few more chances once the Offense gets a bit more balanced, cohesive and PRODUCTIVE....


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    I'm so glad that Pees is finally taking heat for his unit's failures.

    Playing it safe on D might get you to the playoffs, but it won't get you the Ring.

    Ted Cottrell coached the same way, avoiding the big play at the expense of everything else, and after failing in Minnesota and San Diego, he's out of the league.

    Since 2006 the Pats D has:

    - Blown a 21-3 lead, allowing 35 2nd half points in the 2006 AFC Championship.

    - Allowed the Giants to march 83 yards to the game winning TD in Super Bowl 42.

    - In 2008, allowed 30 or more points in 4 of their 5 losses, which kept the Pats from making the playoffs.

    - Last week, with a 1st round bye on the line, allowed a 98-yard TD drive to tie the game and send it into OT. Moreover, the D allowed Denver to drive into FG range in OT.

    All this has happened under his watch.

    I have zero faith in Dean Pees.

    If anyone disagrees, then there are only 2 logical conclusions:

    - Defensive Coordinators are meaningless. (Not true)
    - The Pats defensive roster doesn't suffice. (Not buying that either, since the team reloaded in the secondary)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    I totally agree w. themightypatriotz, let us stop pilling on the D, what's about the unproductive offense? Let's fire the offensive coordinator!!! Oooops... Tongue out
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:
    East W L T Pct PF PA Home Road Div Conf Streak     New York Jets 3 2 0 .600 101 88 2-0-0 1-2-0 1-1-0 3-1-0 Lost 2     New England Patriots 3 2 0 .600 104 91 3-0-0 0-2-0 1-1-0 2-2-0 Lost 1     Miami Dolphins 2 3 0 .400 112 106 2-1-0 0-2-0 2-0-0 2-2-0 Won 2     Buffalo Bills 1 4 0 .200 77 116 1-2-0 0-2-0 0-2-0 0-3-0 Lost 3      North W L T Pct PF PA Home Road Div Conf Streak     Cincinnati Bengals 4 1 0 .800 101 90 1-1-0 3-0-0 3-0-0 3-1-0 Won 4     Baltimore Ravens 3 2 0 .600 138 97 2-1-0 1-1-0 1-1-0 3-2-0 Lost 2     Pittsburgh Steelers 3 2 0 .600 113 98 2-0-0 1-2-0 0-1-0 2-1-0 Won 2     Cleveland Browns 1 4 0 .200 55 121 0-2-0 1-2-0 0-2-0 1-3-0 Won 1      South W L T Pct PF PA Home Road Div Conf Streak     Indianapolis Colts 5 0 0 1.000 137 71 2-0-0 3-0-0 2-0-0 3-0-0 Won 5     Jacksonville Jaguars 2 3 0 .400 97 127 1-1-0 1-2-0 2-1-0 2-1-0 Lost 1     Houston Texans 2 3 0 .400 115 120 1-2-0 1-1-0 1-1-0 2-2-0 Lost 1     Tennessee Titans 0 5 0 .000 84 139 0-2-0 0-3-0 0-3-0 0-5-0 Lost 5      West W L T Pct PF PA Home Road Div Conf Streak     Denver Broncos 5 0 0 1.000 99 43 3-0-0 2-0-0 1-0-0 4-0-0 Won 5     San Diego Chargers 2 2 0 .500 101 102 1-1-0 1-1-0 1-0-0 2-2-0 Lost 1     Oakland Raiders 1 4 0 .200 49 130 0-2-0 1-2-0 1-2-0 1-3-0 Lost 3     Kansas City Chiefs 0 5 0 .000 84 138 0-3-0 0-2-0 0-1-0 0-2-0 Lost 5 This is just the AFC.  New England has given up 91 points, 14 of which were surrendered by the offense.  Our D has given up 77 points!!   Holy Cow, doesn't Pees know he's not supposed to give up points!  Fire that bumb!  Waaa, waaa, waaa!!!
    Posted by themightypatriotz



    *applauds.

    Atleast someone here gets it. The D has only given up 77 points and people are complaining. Look at the 2 losses 16 and 17 points allowed. Where is our prolific 30 points per game offense? That is the problem
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:
    I totally agree w. themightypatriotz, let us stop pilling on the D, what's about the unproductive offense? Let's fire the offensive coordinator!!! Oooops...
    Posted by FrogLegs


    Hmmm....

    Just maybe if we had a better clutch D, the margin of error for the offense wouldn't be so narrow and the mistakes on offense would become less magnified.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:
    New England has given up 91 points, 14 of which were surrendered by the offense.  Our D has given up 77 points!!   Holy Cow, doesn't Pees know he's not supposed to give up points!  Fire that bumb!  Waaa, waaa, waaa!!!
    Posted by themightypatriotz


    Seeing your team give up 35 2nd half points in the AFC Championship game, allowing the Giants to march 83 yards to the GW TD in SB 42, getting blown up by teams with really good offenses in 4 of their five losses in 2008, and seeing your team allow a 98 yard TD drive late in an important road game with playoff seeing implications would make any fan go "Waaa, waaa, waaa!!!"

    Funny thing about football. An "impressive" win in September seems less so as the season progresses. Cases in point: Baltimore's offense only managed 14 points for the second straight week. The bad weather played a role in the Pats win over the Falcons, who play in a dome.

    Yet, Denver is a well coached team, with a very overrated and wrongfully dissed QB that picked apart the Pats D like it was 2008 again.

    This defense is too good to play so poorly in clutch situations.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    Pete ... your expectations are unrealistic, if not irrational.  Every D, no matter how good, is going to give up a touchdown or a field goal sooner or later.  The better defenses give up fewer points.  It's that simple.   "The D had an awful half in the playoffs three years ago, gave up a touchdown at the worst possible time in the Superbowl, had 5 bad games last year, and allowed 2 90+ TD drives last week ... so let's fire the D coordinator." 

    Have you ever considered that Pees' defense:

    1.  Was in the top 5 in scoring defense in 2006 and 2007, and the top 10 in 2008.
    2.  Kept our season alive in 2006, when our top receiver was Reche Caldwell; and kept the highest scoring team, San Diego, to 21 points in the playoffs, while our offense was having a miserable game until the 4th quarter, with Brady throwing 3 picks.
    3.  Did not allow a touchdown for 9 straight quarters in the 2007 playoffs.
    4.  Has not allowed more than 20 points a game this season, or 17 in 4 quarters, and has, in every game, given the ball back to our offense multiple times in the 4th quarter for a chance to win it.

    And finally ... you do realize that our "clutch" Ds of yore collapsed in the 4th quarter of the 2001 and 2003 superbowls, letting both the Rams and the Panthers tie the game with under 2:00 to go, and also let McNabb march down the field in the 4th quarter of 2004 to get within 3.

    But I digress.  You're right.  The handful of examples of poor play from our D over the past few years means one thing ... Fire Pees!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tnutts. Show Tnutts's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    Mighty,

    I like you more and more with each post.


    How about our terrible D that forced Denver to punt. Brady gets strip sacked then forces Denver to go 3 and out at the 50 yard line. Man I wish the Pats D was more clutch.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1020us. Show m1020us's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:
    I'm so glad that Pees is finally taking heat for his unit's failures. Playing it safe on D might get you to the playoffs, but it won't get you the Ring. Ted Cottrell coached the same way, avoiding the big play at the expense of everything else, and after failing in Minnesota and San Diego, he's out of the league. Since 2006 the Pats D has: - Blown a 21-3 lead, allowing 35 2nd half points in the 2006 AFC Championship. - Allowed the Giants to march 83 yards to the game winning TD in Super Bowl 42. - In 2008, allowed 30 or more points in 4 of their 5 losses, which kept the Pats from making the playoffs. - Last week, with a 1st round bye on the line, allowed a 98-yard TD drive to tie the game and send it into OT. Moreover, the D allowed Denver to drive into FG range in OT. All this has happened under his watch. I have zero faith in Dean Pees. If anyone disagrees, then there are only 2 logical conclusions: - Defensive Coordinators are meaningless. (Not true) - The Pats defensive roster doesn't suffice. (Not buying that either, since the team reloaded in the secondary)
    Posted by CubanPete


    This is proof that you know nothing about the Patriots.....it is Belichick's system and it is the way that the Pats have playes since 2000.  I believe that they have won 3 SuperBowls playing that way.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    I have never been a Pees fan, I looked at this and said hopefully he is a place setter and Bll will run the defense. Unfortunately I think Pees has not been a place setter and Bill lets him run the defense most the time.  However, I do not think this defense is too bad. It needs to make tackles a bit more and be more agressive and let the DB's prove their ability to cover long enough to get to the QB.  I think by the time we get to week 12 this team will be no worse then 9-3, I can be convinced pretty easy they will be 10-2 for that matter.
    Not ready to jump yet.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Pees needs to go.

    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go.:
    In Response to Re: Pees needs to go. : This is proof that you know nothing about the Patriots.....it is Belichick's system and it is the way that the Pats have playes since 2000.  I believe that they have won 3 SuperBowls playing that way.
    Posted by m1020us


    Crennel was DC in for the Pats in 2001-2004: 3 SB titles

    W/O Crennel: Zero SB titles

    Moreover, you're defending BB when I attacked Pees. Your argument is flawed and you fail at reading comprehension.

    NOTE: BB didn't have Crennel in 2000 (He was DC for the Browns) and the Pats finished 5-11.

     
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