Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    NFL Network's Total Access suggested yesterday that Peppers to the Pats could still be a possibility.  The Panthers are in cap he!! with the $16MM+ they have set aside for Peppers.  They can't do anything in free agencey with this holdout.  Carolina lost 4 OL during the off season, have no depth behind their starters on the DL and they only have 5 picks in the draft, the first of which is at 59.

    The Pats have 11 picks (4 that are higher than the Panther's first pick), 14 OL under contract (will carry only 9-10) and are the only team where Peppers said he'd go in the AFC.  I would not be surprised to see a draft day trade of Peppers to the Pats at 23 or 34 IF Robert Ayers is on the board.  

    To pay for Peppers the Pats could include in the trade one of more of these players, Stephen Neal (he would start at RG for CAR), Nick Kaczur (top back up at RG), Jarvis Green (would start in the spot vacated by Peppers) or some other back-up like Yates or Britt.  Trading the top three players I mentioned clears $5.8MM of cap to go along with the $4.3MM we have in cap space now which could pay for Peppers.  The Panthers could take over these contracts and free up $10MM of their cap gaining 2 starters, a top back-up and a higher pick than they now have. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    the pats aren't going to dismantle there team to acquire peppers. if peppers was going to be a pat, it would have happened a long time ago.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    NFL Network's Total Access suggested yesterday that Peppers to the Pats could still be a possibility.  The Panthers are in cap he!! with the $16MM+ they have set aside for Peppers.  They can't do anything in free agencey with this holdout.  Carolina lost 4 OL during the off season, have no depth behind their starters on the DL and they only have 5 picks in the draft, the first of which is at 59. The Pats have 11 picks (4 that are higher than the Panther's first pick), 14 OL under contract (will carry only 9-10) and are the only team where Peppers said he'd go in the AFC.  I would not be surprised to see a draft day trade of Peppers to the Pats at 23 or 34 IF Robert Ayers is on the board.   To pay for Peppers the Pats could include in the trade one of more of these players, Stephen Neal (he would start at RG for CAR), Nick Kaczur (top back up at RG), Jarvis Green (would start in the spot vacated by Peppers) or some other back-up like Yates or Britt.  Trading the top three players I mentioned clears $5.8MM of cap to go along with the $4.3MM we have in cap space now which could pay for Peppers.  The Panthers could take over these contracts and free up $10MM of their cap gaining 2 starters, a top back-up and a higher pick than they now have. 
    Posted by Faucetman


    Gotta check thatdrippy fawcet. Peppers will cost the Pats $16MM. He's been franchised at that amount by teh Panthers. Remember Cassell? Same for Peppers. The Pats would need $16MM to sign him. THey don't have the space, especially looking at their draft position(s). I believe this "rumor" has gone on for too long. The Pats reaped benefit with FA signings after Cassell and Vrabel were traded. Not enough money left, and NFW the NFLPA will allow Peppers to sign for less than the $16MM franchised amount he's guaranteed with Carolina. Looks like they weren't as smart as the Pats in dealeing with their franchised player.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I'm not saying the Pats are going to do it.  Quite frankly I don't really want them to and doubt they would.  I'm saying it's possible and if it was going to happen, I would expect it just before or on draft day (like with Moss).  The reason being Carolina has to realize that they are in a hopeless situation and that takes time.  Peppers has them over a barrell and they are finally beginning to realize it.

    With respect, Peppers will NOT cost the Pats $16.5MM if they restructure him following the acquisition.  $16.5MM is the tag amount.  He doesn't have to make that amount.  The Pats could sign him to a deal like this.  This is just an example.

    5 Year - $60MM with $30MM guaranteed in form of a signing bonus.  Pepper makes double what he'd get with the Panthers up front.

    2009 - $6MM signing bonus, salary of $2MM, total cap hit $8MM
    2010 - $6MM (SB) salary of $4MM, total cap hit $10MM
    2011 - $6MM (SB) salary of $6MM, total cap hit $12MM
    2012 - $6MM (SB) salary of $8MM, total cap hit $14MM
    2013 - $6MM (SB) salary of $10MM, total cap hit $16MM

    This would essentially be a 4 year deal with the Pats cutting him after 2012 taking a $6MM hit but saving $10MM on the cap.

    The NFL will count $8MM against the cap for 2009 assuming the deal is structured this way.  The Pats have roughly $4.3MM of cap space now.  They have to clear another $3.7MM.  To do that and to satisfy Carolina they throw Green and Neal into the trade.  Both players carry a $2.040MM cap savings if cut or traded.  I'd lower the pick from #34 that was discussed earlier to #58 since Carolina would be gaining two starters back.

    Neal while still above average when healthy turns 33 this season and is an upgrade over current Panther starter at RG, K. Vincent.  Vincent is only 18 months young than Neal and has missed more games than Neal over the past 4 season.  Green is almost exactly one year older than Peppers and Green would instantly be the best DE on the Panther roster.  With the Panthers own pick at 59 they could draft Gilbert or Sidbury to get another pass rusher.  At 58 they can address other needs at WR, DT, TE or S.

    Is it a great deal for Carolina, no.  But they are running out of options and this solves several problems for them.  The Panthers are so thin along both lines and have no premium picks to solve that problem and no cap room to aquire anyone.  This deal nets them two starters, a higher pick then one they have plus frees up $10MM in cap.  John Fox even said that if they have to move Peppers he hopes they can get fair value back for him so this Peppers talk is real.

    With respect to Kyle, who I do respect, this is not dismantling our team.  Both Green and Neal are likely in their final year with the Pats anyway.  Green would become expendable with Peppers and we could afford to get younger at RG with a rookie.  At 34 we could get Alex Mack or Max Unger both of whom are beasts and can play center or guard.  At 47 we could get Eric Wood (who I love).  I just mentioned Kaczur because he's also in the final year of his contract and the worst of our starters.  Kaczur bearly beat out O'Callaghan and is a $1.8MM cap savings.  

    All I'm saying with this post is it is possible to work out something good for both teams.  NFL Network mentioned that the Patriots were the team most likely to land Peppers but that Carolina may want their first, #23 instead of #34 which it appears we were offering.  I'd rather offer Green and Neal and lower the pick to 58 because we have to clear some cap and Green and Neal are the best candidates.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    you can never say never.if it does happen it will be on draft day.it dosent have to happen a long time ago.the trade for moss was on draft day,and was big news that over ran the draft.im not gonna hold my breath,but anything is possible.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tartarus12. Show tartarus12's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    The problem is you have to have the 16.5 Mil cap space to make the trade. You may restructure after the trade but you still need the space. After the Moss trade, they restructured but still needed the 10 Mil in cap space to make the trade. Peppers is not coming to Foxboro.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    if this was to go down.he would have to re-do his contract.and he could do it before the trade is finalized.again im not holding my breath that this will go down,but anything is possible.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I think that because Peppers hasn’t signed the franchise offer yet his agent can talk with the Pats.  He can (1) work out a contract with the Pats (2) go back to the Panthers and give the permission to work out a sign and trade deal with the Pats.  So I think it’s do-able.

     
    The problem is that this contract should be Peppers big contract of his career.Would the Pats really put that much money into this guy?  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    of course they wont.im sure they will say this is what we will pay you.rather its a contract for 1 to 7yrs.and it will be up to peppers.if he wants a shot with a winning team.then he should take the pats offer.if its money he wants then he will be with another team,or remain a panther.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I think that because Peppers hasn’t signed the franchise offer yet his agent can talk with the Pats.   He can (1) work out a contract with the Pats (2) go back to the Panthers and give the permission to work out a sign and trade deal with the Pats.   So I think it’s do-able.   The problem is that this contract should be Peppers big contract of his career. Would the Pats really put that much money into this guy?    
    Posted by bostatewarrior

    They put almost that much into Seymour and Thomas.  Next year they have Seymour's contract gone which frees up $10MM so yes, I think they could.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I dont want him in a Pats Uni, unless he comes up with a below market deal by a large margin
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    you have to wonder with all the contracts that are up next season.its obvious they will be saying good-bye to some.and out of those ones they will be saying good-bye to.why not try,and trade them now,and get what you can for them?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    you have to wonder with all the contracts that are up next season.its obvious they will be saying good-bye to some.and out of those ones they will be saying good-bye to.why not try,and trade them now,and get what you can for them?
    Posted by mosseffect43


    That's the only way this deal could work.  They would have to clear some cap and trading makes more sense then cutting.  Again, I'm not advocating for this trade, just pointing out how it could happen.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    Does any one know if the Panthers used the exclusive or non-exclusive tag?  If non-exclusive the Pats could just sign him after the draft and surrender a 2010 and 2011 first round pick.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    Does any one know if the Panthers used the exclusive or non-exclusive tag?  If non-exclusive the Pats could just sign him after the draft and surrender a 2010 and 2011 first round pick.
    Posted by Faucetman

    http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/11/still-no-interest-in-unsigned-franchise-players/
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?



    Good article, huh Moss?  That would be a devious way of landing Peppers.  You throw in a little poison pill like a $20MM bonus if Peppers plays more than 2 games in North Carolina during each season and they wouldn't match.  I still think it a long shot for the Pats to land him but Carolina has got to be worrying about another team coming in and making an offer they can't match and having to wait a year before they get any compensation.  That's why I think there will be a trade either right before or during the draft.  It could be they covet Ayers and want to see if Ayers is still there at 34
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I beleive there are gonna be a few trades in the up comeing draft.and some big names.will any be with the pats?its possible,and remains to be seen.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kmaxx. Show Kmaxx's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I can't freak'en wait till April 25.  The anticipation is killing me.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonnyCorlione. Show SonnyCorlione's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    the pats aren't going to dismantle there team to acquire peppers. if peppers was going to be a pat, it would have happened a long time ago.
    Posted by KyleCleric2

    I would agree with the argument that it'll be too tough to pull of and, in addition to that, I could see some free agents to be become upset if he gets a monster deal.  However, I would speculate that because it hasn't happened yet it won't.  The Pats can be as patient as they want to be on this deal.  I 2006 there was speculation building that New England would trade for Randy Moss and I thought to myself "no way", it didn't happen during the season then, out of left field, we acquire him on the second day of the draft.  That draft went down in flames other than the fact we acquired Moss.

    With 11 picks I would be shocked if we used more that 8.  You just won't see any value out of that many picks when you have a team that is this solid.  Again, I think it's a long shot but who knows what they can put together.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I'd just take Ayer's / Lb of their choice and the small price tag.
    BB and the Pats can't talk to Peppers or his agent. BB said so himself. The headline of this thread is talk heats up but I can't find anything in it that say's it has. BB told Peppers through the Media that if he wants the trade then tell them you want out. Just as Matt did. No contrat = no talk
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I'd just take Ayer's / Lb of their choice and the small price tag. BB and the Pats can't talk to Peppers or his agent. BB said so himself. The headline of this thread is talk heats up but I can't find anything in it that say's it has. BB told Peppers through the Media that if he wants the trade then tell them you want out. Just as Matt did. No contrat = no talk
    Posted by ohyes


    Ohyes,

    The story was on Total Access on NFL Network yesterday.  Fox himself was on hinting that they might just have to move on.  Rich Eisen suggested the Pats were the front runners but might have to up their offer to #23.  The Pats were rumored to be offering up #34 back when this talk first started.  

    The Pats have spent most of their cap now and would have to get creative in a way I suggested if they were to pull it off.  If Pepper was under contract I think you'd be right that they can't talk to him but he's not under contract.  I think BB is wrong when he said that.  Otherwise how could a team make Peppers an offer and surrender 2 first round picks should Carolina not match if they weren't allowed to talk?  I think BB can't talk to Carolina about what they'd want in return until Peppers signs the tag.  But heck, we all know how this goes down.  Look at Asante Samuel last year.  One day after F/A started he was already an Eagle.  These things normally take time but so much is being down behind the scenes and improperly according to the rules.

    But I agree with you that I'd rather just take Ayers if he's there at #23 or 34 and in a couple of years if Mayock is right you have a Peppers at a fraction of the price and age.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    Plus Ayers and Mayo were team mates in 2007 so that would be cool for both players unless they hate each other.  Ayers is being called a one-year wonder and it is a fair comment but he has shown improvement each year with last year being his break out year.  In our system he could be mentored by Green then ready to take over in 2010.  If we don't get Peppers I hope we get Ayers and/or Ziggy.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    The way I understood this was Peppers can talk to teams because he has not signed the contract.  The Panthers can not talk to teams because Peppers is not under contract.  B.B. said, on WEEI, that if Peppers signed the contract like Matt did it would make it easier to move him.  It is Bill’s preferred way of doing things. (Or he could be blowing smoke)

    Good discussion, BTW.   Interesting angle in the Pro football talk link, Moss.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    Gotta check thatdrippy fawcet. Peppers will cost the Pats $16MM. He's been franchised at that amount by teh Panthers. Remember Cassell? Same for Peppers. The Pats would need $16MM to sign him. THey don't have the space, especially looking at their draft position(s). I believe this "rumor" has gone on for too long. The Pats reaped benefit with FA signings after Cassell and Vrabel were traded. Not enough money left, and NFW the NFLPA will allow Peppers to sign for less than the $16MM franchised amount he's guaranteed with Carolina. Looks like they weren't as smart as the Pats in dealeing with their franchised player.
    Posted by AZPAT


    Not so. The $16m is what carolina would have had to pay Peppers if he accepted the agreement. He did not, so he is not a franschised player.  Cassel did accept it and thus did become a franchised. The difference is that the panthers can accept any trade offer they choose for Peppers and his current contract. At that point the team making the proposal would get permission to talk new contract with Peppers himself. The deal would be contingent on Peppers and his new team coming to an agreement on the terms of the new contract.

    Peppers for our #23 would be a good trade for both parties BUT where does the money (not necessarily $16m but a goodly sum in any case) come from? Throwing in other players to free up money as suggested elsewhere on this thread doesn't really help because you then just have to pay other players to fill those positions. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: Peppers to Pats talks heating up?

    I'm not saying the Pats are going to do it.  Quite frankly I don't really want them to and doubt they would.  I'm saying it's possible and if it was going to happen, I would expect it just before or on draft day (like with Moss).  The reason being Carolina has to realize that they are in a hopeless situation and that takes time.  Peppers has them over a barrell and they are finally beginning to realize it. With respect, Peppers will NOT cost the Pats $16.5MM if they restructure him following the acquisition.  $16.5MM is the tag amount.  He doesn't have to make that amount.  The Pats could sign him to a deal like this.  This is just an example. 5 Year - $60MM with $30MM guaranteed in form of a signing bonus.  Pepper makes double what he'd get with the Panthers up front. 2009 - $6MM signing bonus, salary of $2MM, total cap hit $8MM 2010 - $6MM (SB) salary of $4MM, total cap hit $10MM 2011 - $6MM (SB) salary of $6MM, total cap hit $12MM 2012 - $6MM (SB) salary of $8MM, total cap hit $14MM 2013 - $6MM (SB) salary of $10MM, total cap hit $16MM This would essentially be a 4 year deal with the Pats cutting him after 2012 taking a $6MM hit but saving $10MM on the cap. The NFL will count $8MM against the cap for 2009 assuming the deal is structured this way.  The Pats have roughly $4.3MM of cap space now.  They have to clear another $3.7MM.  To do that and to satisfy Carolina they throw Green and Neal into the trade.  Both players carry a $2.040MM cap savings if cut or traded.  I'd lower the pick from #34 that was discussed earlier to #58 since Carolina would be gaining two starters back. Neal while still above average when healthy turns 33 this season and is an upgrade over current Panther starter at RG, K. Vincent.  Vincent is only 18 months young than Neal and has missed more games than Neal over the past 4 season.  Green is almost exactly one year older than Peppers and Green would instantly be the best DE on the Panther roster.  With the Panthers own pick at 59 they could draft Gilbert or Sidbury to get another pass rusher.  At 58 they can address other needs at WR, DT, TE or S. Is it a great deal for Carolina, no.  But they are running out of options and this solves several problems for them.  The Panthers are so thin along both lines and have no premium picks to solve that problem and no cap room to aquire anyone.  This deal nets them two starters, a higher pick then one they have plus frees up $10MM in cap.  John Fox even said that if they have to move Peppers he hopes they can get fair value back for him so this Peppers talk is real. With respect to Kyle, who I do respect, this is not dismantling our team.  Both Green and Neal are likely in their final year with the Pats anyway.  Green would become expendable with Peppers and we could afford to get younger at RG with a rookie.  At 34 we could get Alex Mack or Max Unger both of whom are beasts and can play center or guard.  At 47 we could get Eric Wood (who I love).  I just mentioned Kaczur because he's also in the final year of his contract and the worst of our starters.  Kaczur bearly beat out O'Callaghan and is a $1.8MM cap savings.   All I'm saying with this post is it is possible to work out something good for both teams.  NFL Network mentioned that the Patriots were the team most likely to land Peppers but that Carolina may want their first, #23 instead of #34 which it appears we were offering.  I'd rather offer Green and Neal and lower the pick to 58 because we have to clear some cap and Green and Neal are the best candidates.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Now you're talking!

    I'm sure we could make the deal with the panthers draft-pick-poor panthers for some combination of our draft picks. The problem is coming up with the Benjamins to pay him and and replacements for any other players we have to throw into the deal.

    But with the type of creative Capology, as suggested here, it certainly could be done!
     
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