Percy Harvin and the Patriots

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    I like Harvin more than Welker, Harvin reminds me of Victor Cruz in that he stretches the field. We can't say the same for Wes, plus, 25 > 33. 



    Well, different roles.  But anyway, it's less about upside and more about the price. Plus, who knows how Harvin fits in, always a guess with receivers and this offense it seems.  We know how Welker fits in.

    Demps may well fill the field stretcher role, and they can also use a pick on somebody with some giddyup.  And maybe Edelman can stay healthy, he brings a lot of what Harvin does (including, unfortunately similar availability issues).




    Isnt Demps a RB and has he even played a down of NFL football?? I think its a bit premature based on a couple preseason games( that I didnt  notice much) that he can A.) convert to WR and B.) be a deep threat.

    I think he is capable of playing the slot, but deep threats line up outside and I doubt he can do that with his build. Lets just let the guy come into camp next year and see what he can do. I wouldnt be penciling him in anywhere in the offense at this point. Just be happy that he may be able to upgrade our Kickoff returns. Way too many people overhyping this guy based on what? Speed??  It takes more than that.



    Wasn't Harvin a RB and had to convert to a WR? It can happen and Demps has the speed. I don't think anyone will say he definitly can do it but are you willing to say he definitly can't to the point you are willing to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick and then pay a diva contract when you could spend about the same amount on Welker, keep the pick, and see what Demps can do?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    I like Harvin more than Welker, Harvin reminds me of Victor Cruz in that he stretches the field. We can't say the same for Wes, plus, 25 > 33. 



    Well, different roles.  But anyway, it's less about upside and more about the price. Plus, who knows how Harvin fits in, always a guess with receivers and this offense it seems.  We know how Welker fits in.

    Demps may well fill the field stretcher role, and they can also use a pick on somebody with some giddyup.  And maybe Edelman can stay healthy, he brings a lot of what Harvin does (including, unfortunately similar availability issues).




    Isnt Demps a RB and has he even played a down of NFL football?? I think its a bit premature based on a couple preseason games( that I didnt  notice much) that he can A.) convert to WR and B.) be a deep threat.

    I think he is capable of playing the slot, but deep threats line up outside and I doubt he can do that with his build. Lets just let the guy come into camp next year and see what he can do. I wouldnt be penciling him in anywhere in the offense at this point. Just be happy that he may be able to upgrade our Kickoff returns. Way too many people overhyping this guy based on what? Speed??  It takes more than that.



    Wasn't Harvin a RB and had to convert to a WR? It can happen and Demps has the speed. I don't think anyone will say he definitly can do it but are you willing to say he definitly can't to the point you are willing to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick and then pay a diva contract when you could spend about the same amount on Welker, keep the pick, and see what Demps can do?



    No, he was a top WR recruit coming out of high school. He's always been a dual threat, but if you had to list him at one position, it would be receiver.

    Demps has no where near the same skills as Harvin, but like you said, it's not impossible that he can develop the skills to play both positions.

    Right now, Demps is just a very fast player. I have no expectations of his route running, hands, etc. He's pretty much been red shirtted this season. Hopefully he's spent time learning the playbook, working on route running and other football related activities as opposed to doing nothing these last 4 months.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    I like Harvin more than Welker, Harvin reminds me of Victor Cruz in that he stretches the field. We can't say the same for Wes, plus, 25 > 33. 



    Well, different roles.  But anyway, it's less about upside and more about the price. Plus, who knows how Harvin fits in, always a guess with receivers and this offense it seems.  We know how Welker fits in.

    Demps may well fill the field stretcher role, and they can also use a pick on somebody with some giddyup.  And maybe Edelman can stay healthy, he brings a lot of what Harvin does (including, unfortunately similar availability issues).




    Isnt Demps a RB and has he even played a down of NFL football?? I think its a bit premature based on a couple preseason games( that I didnt  notice much) that he can A.) convert to WR and B.) be a deep threat.

    I think he is capable of playing the slot, but deep threats line up outside and I doubt he can do that with his build. Lets just let the guy come into camp next year and see what he can do. I wouldnt be penciling him in anywhere in the offense at this point. Just be happy that he may be able to upgrade our Kickoff returns. Way too many people overhyping this guy based on what? Speed??  It takes more than that.



    Wasn't Harvin a RB and had to convert to a WR? It can happen and Demps has the speed. I don't think anyone will say he definitly can do it but are you willing to say he definitly can't to the point you are willing to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick and then pay a diva contract when you could spend about the same amount on Welker, keep the pick, and see what Demps can do?




    Ummm, I never said I wanted Harvin. I am just saying weve seen nothing from Demps and people wanna pencil him in as a starter and a deep threat?!?  He will be lucky to make the team as a returner.  I did say he may be able to play the slot but even Harvin struggles playing outside and I dont think Demps is an outside player, thats all. Im not talking about giving anything up for Harvin. I was responded to Muzwells statement about Demps being a deep threat and I thought that was very premature to say.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    It's not the offense but the defense that needs improvement. We certainly need a corner to back up Talib and Dennard  and another solid safety would improve things there.

     As for Welker, he's one of the best receivers in the history of the game and still playing at an extremely high level. Welker is Brady's safety valve and that kind of chemistry isn't easy to develop. Just think about how hard it was for Ocho Cinco to fit in. Do the deal with Welker and stop the kind of thinking that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. It isn't!

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    I like Harvin more than Welker, Harvin reminds me of Victor Cruz in that he stretches the field. We can't say the same for Wes, plus, 25 > 33. 



    Well, different roles.  But anyway, it's less about upside and more about the price. Plus, who knows how Harvin fits in, always a guess with receivers and this offense it seems.  We know how Welker fits in.

    Demps may well fill the field stretcher role, and they can also use a pick on somebody with some giddyup.  And maybe Edelman can stay healthy, he brings a lot of what Harvin does (including, unfortunately similar availability issues).




    Isnt Demps a RB and has he even played a down of NFL football?? I think its a bit premature based on a couple preseason games( that I didnt  notice much) that he can A.) convert to WR and B.) be a deep threat.

    I think he is capable of playing the slot, but deep threats line up outside and I doubt he can do that with his build. Lets just let the guy come into camp next year and see what he can do. I wouldnt be penciling him in anywhere in the offense at this point. Just be happy that he may be able to upgrade our Kickoff returns. Way too many people overhyping this guy based on what? Speed??  It takes more than that.



    He is one o fthe fastest players in the NFL.  He could do exactly what wallace does assuming he works on his hands and route running.  Being that he has had an entire season to learn the offensive playbook i have a feeling he could be a RB/WR threat.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to harleyroadking1's comment:

    don't need him the Pats have Demps on IR



    exactly. demps, edelman and welker (for at least a year) without giving up anything

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    I like Harvin more than Welker, Harvin reminds me of Victor Cruz in that he stretches the field. We can't say the same for Wes, plus, 25 > 33. 



    Well, different roles.  But anyway, it's less about upside and more about the price. Plus, who knows how Harvin fits in, always a guess with receivers and this offense it seems.  We know how Welker fits in.

    Demps may well fill the field stretcher role, and they can also use a pick on somebody with some giddyup.  And maybe Edelman can stay healthy, he brings a lot of what Harvin does (including, unfortunately similar availability issues).




    Isnt Demps a RB and has he even played a down of NFL football?? I think its a bit premature based on a couple preseason games( that I didnt  notice much) that he can A.) convert to WR and B.) be a deep threat.

    I think he is capable of playing the slot, but deep threats line up outside and I doubt he can do that with his build. Lets just let the guy come into camp next year and see what he can do. I wouldnt be penciling him in anywhere in the offense at this point. Just be happy that he may be able to upgrade our Kickoff returns. Way too many people overhyping this guy based on what? Speed??  It takes more than that.



    demps played rb and wr and st in college. 5 outside run, 5 pass plays a game from demps woudl change games, not to mention s.t. for pennies woody or edelman with more speed and who  played wr AND rb in college

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to trouts' comment:

    It's not the offense but the defense that needs improvement. We certainly need a corner to back up Talib and Dennard  and another solid safety would improve things there.

     As for Welker, he's one of the best receivers in the history of the game and still playing at an extremely high level. Welker is Brady's safety valve and that kind of chemistry isn't easy to develop. Just think about how hard it was for Ocho Cinco to fit in. Do the deal with Welker and stop the kind of thinking that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. It isn't!



    "t's not the offense but the defense that needs improvement. We certainly need a corner to back up Talib and Dennard  and another solid safety would improve things there."

    absoultely agree byrd or goldson in fa xavier rhodes in draft

    i offwer welekr 5 years 30 mil 12 guaranteed if no, then tag and find his replacement for following year

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to natesubs' comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    I like Harvin more than Welker, Harvin reminds me of Victor Cruz in that he stretches the field. We can't say the same for Wes, plus, 25 > 33. 



    Well, different roles.  But anyway, it's less about upside and more about the price. Plus, who knows how Harvin fits in, always a guess with receivers and this offense it seems.  We know how Welker fits in.

    Demps may well fill the field stretcher role, and they can also use a pick on somebody with some giddyup.  And maybe Edelman can stay healthy, he brings a lot of what Harvin does (including, unfortunately similar availability issues).




    Isnt Demps a RB and has he even played a down of NFL football?? I think its a bit premature based on a couple preseason games( that I didnt  notice much) that he can A.) convert to WR and B.) be a deep threat.

    I think he is capable of playing the slot, but deep threats line up outside and I doubt he can do that with his build. Lets just let the guy come into camp next year and see what he can do. I wouldnt be penciling him in anywhere in the offense at this point. Just be happy that he may be able to upgrade our Kickoff returns. Way too many people overhyping this guy based on what? Speed??  It takes more than that.



    He is one o fthe fastest players in the NFL.  He could do exactly what wallace does assuming he works on his hands and route running.  Being that he has had an entire season to learn the offensive playbook i have a feeling he could be a RB/WR threat.



    he is a rb/wr threat already, though sure he could imroive his skills. hes a bit short (and small) for me for the outside wr. we get one outside wr in draft this year to make everyone else that much more unstoppable including the run

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    There's another guy in the league that's pretty good that could be available and might fill a far more pressing need than Harvin.

    Demarcus Ware is among the best 3-4 OLBs ever.  Problem is Monte Kiffin doesn't play a 3-4.  Not saying he couldn't learn to put his hand on the ground and play 4-3 end if he wanted to.  If he was so inclined, he could probably do it and be great at it because he has that kind of ability.  Could potentially fill the Simeon Rice role.

    But it's not an easy switch for someone that's basically never been asked to do it.  He's a veteran guy, coming off injury (shoulder surgery). On the other hand, the job description of his new position is pretty simple compared to 3-4 OLB. It's basically just get after the QB. 

    No idea about contracts and all of that and whether Jones would ever consider dealing him, but if I'm in charge and dealing draft picks, I'd be far more interested in a Ware than a Harvin, given the Pats needs.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    I think we'd be idiots to acquire and pay this guy...he's had problems in the Viking's locker room and back in college too. How many of these guys can we bring in before it tips things the other way? If he was a 6'6" run stuffing, pass rushing monster, I'd be all for it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to trouts' comment:

    It's not the offense but the defense that needs improvement. We certainly need a corner to back up Talib and Dennard  and another solid safety would improve things there.

     As for Welker, he's one of the best receivers in the history of the game and still playing at an extremely high level. Welker is Brady's safety valve and that kind of chemistry isn't easy to develop. Just think about how hard it was for Ocho Cinco to fit in. Do the deal with Welker and stop the kind of thinking that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. It isn't!



    "t's not the offense but the defense that needs improvement. We certainly need a corner to back up Talib and Dennard  and another solid safety would improve things there."

    absoultely agree byrd or goldson in fa xavier rhodes in draft

    i offwer welekr 5 years 30 mil 12 guaranteed if no, then tag and find his replacement for following year

    Pretty much agree with everything you've stated but my offer to Welker would be different. I think he's making 9.515 million for 2012 so my offer would be 5 years at 45 million with 14 guaranteed. Can't see him signing for less money than he's already making and since NFL contracts aren't guaranteed the 2 extra years are irrelevant. Might make a lousy GM but I'm hoping we resign this guy.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    Welker and Harvin are fundamentally different athletes. 

    Harvin is a homerun hitter, Welker is a possession player. 

    Depending on what they want the offense to be going down the road, Harvin or Welker could fit better or worse. 

    I'll say this, Harvin would be lethal downfield and on PA in ways Welker just isn't, but I can't imagine Harvin catching (and surviving) 10-15 passes in a game.

    Lord knows there aren't enough reps for any more offensive players unless it's a standard ZY WR.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    In response to trouts' comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to trouts' comment:

    It's not the offense but the defense that needs improvement. We certainly need a corner to back up Talib and Dennard  and another solid safety would improve things there.

     As for Welker, he's one of the best receivers in the history of the game and still playing at an extremely high level. Welker is Brady's safety valve and that kind of chemistry isn't easy to develop. Just think about how hard it was for Ocho Cinco to fit in. Do the deal with Welker and stop the kind of thinking that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. It isn't!



    "t's not the offense but the defense that needs improvement. We certainly need a corner to back up Talib and Dennard  and another solid safety would improve things there."

    absoultely agree byrd or goldson in fa xavier rhodes in draft

    i offwer welekr 5 years 30 mil 12 guaranteed if no, then tag and find his replacement for following year

    Pretty much agree with everything you've stated but my offer to Welker would be different. I think he's making 9.515 million for 2012 so my offer would be 5 years at 45 million with 14 guaranteed. Can't see him signing for less money than he's already making and since NFL contracts aren't guaranteed the 2 extra years are irrelevant. Might make a lousy GM but I'm hoping we resign this guy.




    The annual average of the deal does not need to equate or be higher than the franchise tag. Players will take less on the annual average to get more guaranteed. Otherwise, they might as well just prefer to get the franchise tag.

     

    Sticking points between Welker and the Pats is most likely guaranteed money and years. I doubt the Pats want to give a WR who will be 32 next season 5 years.

    If your idea of a deal would work, it would probably have to be a front loaded contract. Most players aren't stupid and if you backload a contract to an old player, he's probably aware that you plan on cutting him before his salary escalates

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brady2Welker47. Show Brady2Welker47's posts

    Re: Percy Harvin and the Patriots

    Bring back Welker...love Harvin

    Just no gaurantees he does well for us...Welker has been more than.anyone could have asked for..he deserves to be rewarded! 

     
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